I think 2 incendiary flow can be used from the side or maybe 1 main depending on how many matter reshapers/zombies lists you anticipate facing. at the end of the day it is still a 2 mana sorcery and that hurts it a little if you are playing with counter spells.
I have had a chance to refine this over several fmn's and I top 8'd a small local gpt over the weekend. I was able to ult lili several times, once against a bant coco player. It was very satisfying, the card is amazing.
I realize this is away from what is current main stream thinking but so far I am liking it as a control deck instead of a Jund deck that plays blue cards. I also think Jace is just not very good in the current format. I admit that it looks like a lot of 1 and two ofs but the concentration density of cards that do a thing is maintained and the variance between the cards adds flexability and some of them overlap in utility between slot types.
I tried to work with a density of less than 8 spells that move me through the deck and at 7 I can still stall out. I wish I could net a few more cards but the available spells are just not super optimal for the moment. I also wanted to keep as much instant speed interaction as possible to force the tempo players to play on my terms.
The spells in the deck are also partly chosen for curve vs mana base development speed. You may not always get to 3 on curve but you still have relevant plays. Also woth noting, the Sanitarium has been amazing despite the symetrical effect.
if you want the 4th color you want Jeskai black...Also your flaying tendrils seems like it wrecks most of your creatures including the hangar back walker by preventing you from getting tokens. Radiant flames seems stronger. You also have 4 dark dwellers but not very many spells for them to get back.
its the things that interact with power/toughness that will throw people the most. for instance if the wandering fumarole is currently a 4/1 because an activation has resolved, giving it +3/-3 will not kill it. It will go back to being a 1/4. the card is still strong.
pretty sure you just play Drana and Kalitas here instead and trim down on your land ramp package and retreats. You can also go down one defiant bloodlord. what about that vampire that gets a +1/+1 whenever you gain life? where is sorin?
Here is where I was at before pre-release but I want to see how the matchup vs eldrazi goes.. that one needs testing. I am currently a card short, and debating about looking for a less painful alternative to the painful truths.
I agree with Tiemuuu in "Grixis in all formats"...
I was not so much looking to make a Grixis surge deck, although I can understand the merits. Crush of tentacles seems to be a decent payoff card there. I have not play tested with Jori en Ruin Diver. It seems to me like you want to be playing that with either Noyan Dar or Jeskai Ascendancy or Monestary mentor or some combination of those with soulfire grandmaster. Or explicitly in a UR deck to get access to colorless spells as your third color and surging. If I understand the assumptions correctly the grixis delve is also trying to play tasigur and pia and Kiran like the modern deck but use standard spells to fill the early interaction and draw gaps? I prefer more sustainable plans that are closer to classical control strategies. So I guess more precisely I was looking for the [Primer]Grixis Control(Sans Dragons).
I was looking at something like:
8 cards that draw cards
5 counters
7-8 spot removal
3-4 board wipes
which leaves you with room for some win conditions and a card or two for spice...
I think given the cards that have been spoiled, making a grixis control deck is feasible. I was unable to find the primer the archetype . Is there a plan to make one at some point?
I have been doing some early proxy testing and its been good so far and would love to talk with people about their findings.
Yeah, I am really liking fiery impulse. 3-4 seems correct these days. I also think if you play with hearold of kozilek you probably want all 4.
I like the brutal expulsion and need to find a way to work it into my list. I have also been looking at how to get some exert influence.
I am also wondering if dampening pulse would be good there.
4 was too many for this build. I was looting away spells I wanted to keep in my hand just to flip early jaces. I went 1-3 but made play mistakes that cost me 1 of the games. Will breaker is also too ambitious. It made me make bad side boarding decisions and is too difficult to protect.
going up 1 clash of wills, 1 tasigur, moved kolaghan command to the side go up one kolaghan monument.
the monument is probably bad but it synergizes with epiphany and the mana volume should help
For what its worth I think Infinite obliteration is great when applied correctly. You can take the Nantuko Husk from a rally list, Ojutai from a dragon list, Gaea's revenge or whisperwood from green decks, Den protectors to shut down the grind value of some decks, rhino and rock were already mentioned. a one of has been great for me in other lists.
I am also not super high on Sarkhan but I am also not playing a shell that is applying early pressure, which is one of the elements to making him succeed. MrRotten, if you were interested in a blue loot based draw engine, you could check out the post I just made under grixis control.
Fathom feeder is pretty decent from testing. He basically represents a must answer card for both agro/midrange and control.
You also have a bunch of things that exile but nothing that takes advantage of those aspects of the cards. You may want to either investigate some processing cards or look at the non exile cards that do the same thing.
I realize this is away from what is current main stream thinking but so far I am liking it as a control deck instead of a Jund deck that plays blue cards. I also think Jace is just not very good in the current format. I admit that it looks like a lot of 1 and two ofs but the concentration density of cards that do a thing is maintained and the variance between the cards adds flexability and some of them overlap in utility between slot types.
4 walkers
3 creatures
8 spot removal
2 sweepers
5 counterspells
8 card draw
3 Hand disruption
I tried to work with a density of less than 8 spells that move me through the deck and at 7 I can still stall out. I wish I could net a few more cards but the available spells are just not super optimal for the moment. I also wanted to keep as much instant speed interaction as possible to force the tempo players to play on my terms.
The spells in the deck are also partly chosen for curve vs mana base development speed. You may not always get to 3 on curve but you still have relevant plays. Also woth noting, the Sanitarium has been amazing despite the symetrical effect.
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
Creatures 3
1 Dragonlord Silumgar
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
Spells 26
2 Fiery Impulse
2 Grasp of Darkness
1 Ultimate Price
2 Ruinous Path
1 Murder
2 Languish
1 Duress
2 Transgress the Mind
1 Negate
1 Horribly Awry
2 Void Shatter
1 Silumgar's Command
4 Anticipate
1 Succumb to Temptation
1 Artificer's Epiphany
2 Pore over the Pages
4 Sunken Hollow
4 Choked Estuary
4 Wandering Fumarole
3 Smoldering Marsh
2 Foreboding Ruins
3 Swamp
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Shivan Reef
1 Mage-Ring Network
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Rending Volley
1 Learn From the Past
1 To the Slaughter
1 Dispel
1 Negate
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Infinite Obliteration
2 Summary Dismissal
2 Radiant Flames
4 Eternal Scourge
Long Live Bolas...
I think 2 is a better number with wipes because you need the game to progress to a state where you have eliminated 2 of their 3 options.
the first one will almost always be 10 damage if you have sweepers.
and if you can sneak in 5 more damage the second one is game over basically. So the fumaroles helped there.
I still debate with friends if that is worth it. They lean towards the no side and I am on the slight side of playable.
its one of the only spell based wincons in the game.
it may be better in an aggressive shell as a curve topper at 3-4 of.
2x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1x Dragonmaster Outcast
1x Sphinx of the Final Word
Walkers 2
1x Chandra, Flamecaller
1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
Spells 26
3x Fiery Impulse
2x Duress
1x Despise
1x Ultimate Price
1x Roast
1x Clash of Wills
3x Anticipate
1x Calculated Dismissal
2x Scatter to the Winds
2x Ruinous Path
1x Painful Truths
1x Kolaghan's Command
2x Languish
1x Crux of Fate
1x Silumgar's Command
3x Dig through Time
Land 27
3x Island
3x Swamp
1x Mountain
1x Mage-Ring Network
1x Blighted Fen
1x Shivan Reef
3x Wandering Fumarole
4x Sunken Hollow
2x Smoldering Marsh
4x Polluted Delta
4x Bloodstained Mire
Side 15
1x Duress
1x Dispel
2x Negate
1x Disdainful Stroke
2x Self-Inflicted Wound
1x Foul-Tongue Invocation
1x Infinite Obliteration
2x Rending Volley
2x Radiant Flames
1x Virulent Plague
1x Cranial Archive
I can see maybe moving final word to the board. Debating if the second negate in the board should just be an Overwhelming Denial.
I was not so much looking to make a Grixis surge deck, although I can understand the merits. Crush of tentacles seems to be a decent payoff card there. I have not play tested with Jori en Ruin Diver. It seems to me like you want to be playing that with either Noyan Dar or Jeskai Ascendancy or Monestary mentor or some combination of those with soulfire grandmaster. Or explicitly in a UR deck to get access to colorless spells as your third color and surging. If I understand the assumptions correctly the grixis delve is also trying to play tasigur and pia and Kiran like the modern deck but use standard spells to fill the early interaction and draw gaps? I prefer more sustainable plans that are closer to classical control strategies. So I guess more precisely I was looking for the [Primer]Grixis Control(Sans Dragons).
I was looking at something like:
8 cards that draw cards
5 counters
7-8 spot removal
3-4 board wipes
which leaves you with room for some win conditions and a card or two for spice...
I think given the cards that have been spoiled, making a grixis control deck is feasible. I was unable to find the primer the archetype . Is there a plan to make one at some point?
I have been doing some early proxy testing and its been good so far and would love to talk with people about their findings.
I like the brutal expulsion and need to find a way to work it into my list. I have also been looking at how to get some exert influence.
I am also wondering if dampening pulse would be good there.
going up 1 clash of wills, 1 tasigur, moved kolaghan command to the side go up one kolaghan monument.
the monument is probably bad but it synergizes with epiphany and the mana volume should help
I am also not super high on Sarkhan but I am also not playing a shell that is applying early pressure, which is one of the elements to making him succeed. MrRotten, if you were interested in a blue loot based draw engine, you could check out the post I just made under grixis control.
Fathom feeder is pretty decent from testing. He basically represents a must answer card for both agro/midrange and control.
You also have a bunch of things that exile but nothing that takes advantage of those aspects of the cards. You may want to either investigate some processing cards or look at the non exile cards that do the same thing.