I think if I answer a couple of your threats and stick a Nahiri you are in more immediate danger. Yes Jace can bounce and brainstorm but aggro decks will just dump their hand and kill him and I am not tapping out against Combo to cast him. Infect will just give their dude hexproof in response to the bounce, dredge and burn and zoo will have you dead before you can cast him, and affinity laughs at him.
I play with Jace in Legacy quite a bit. He is good but hardly gamebreaking.
And yes if we get to the late game and play Jace then the control deck is in a good position to win, but that is the point of playing control. Survive the early turns, stabilize, and drop your wincon.
Nahiri I just LOL slam on 4 after an Anger and you have two turns to go after her or kill me before I win.
Deathrite Shaman is my favorite card, but it is not good for Modern. It is at a different power level than most of Modern is. Powering out turn 2 Lilly's, eating graveyards, gaining life, killing opponents, etc.
Don't get me wrong if that thing got unbanned I would be thrilled and be back on Jund in a heartbeat, but it is too good. IMO the best creature ever printed.
When I saw Gearhulk spoilered I immediately wrote a paragraph on how we could play it even though it's very expensive but then I realized it can't flashback AV and went crtl+A delete
Yeah...that would for sure be an auto-include in this deck. I just don't think there are enough instants to make this thing worth it.
If you are into that effect just run Goblin Dark Dwelleers. It's a fine card if you have the space for it. It's very hard to block and it can brick a lot of creatures. It can also flashback AV and costs 1 mana less than gearhulk.
Yeah I was looking at it but the reason I didn't like it is the lack of flash. I liked the idea of a Gearhulk coming down and killing a Reality Smasher/Thought Knot or a Goyf while flashing back something sweet. Unfortunately our sweetest instant is Lightning Helix :/
In modern the flash isn't all that relevant. I'd rather just slam Elspeth (most of the time at 6 mana). Card just crushes.
Yep I bring Elspeth in against Grixis and Jund and she does work.
My last Grixis opponent Dreadbored my Nahiri and looked all smug about it and I immediately played Elspeth and won two turns later lol.
All yes would do is make bgx die. You need to play jace yo ein anything ressembling a fair game of magic but he eill do absolutely nothing against the problems for control. Izzetmage had it correct when he said you have to be doing something unfair with your control decks. There is a reason why almost all successful control decks outside of standard where combocontrol or some kind of prison deck.
Liliana is arguably just as powerful as Jace (arguably) and BGx gets access to her. When I play Shardless, Liliana is very often more backbreaking for my opponent than Jace is. He dies to pretty much everything that kills other planeswalkers.
When I saw Gearhulk spoilered I immediately wrote a paragraph on how we could play it even though it's very expensive but then I realized it can't flashback AV and went crtl+A delete
Yeah...that would for sure be an auto-include in this deck. I just don't think there are enough instants to make this thing worth it.
If you are into that effect just run Goblin Dark Dwelleers. It's a fine card if you have the space for it. It's very hard to block and it can brick a lot of creatures. It can also flashback AV and costs 1 mana less than gearhulk.
Yeah I was looking at it but the reason I didn't like it is the lack of flash. I liked the idea of a Gearhulk coming down and killing a Reality Smasher/Thought Knot or a Goyf while flashing back something sweet. Unfortunately our sweetest instant is Lightning Helix :/
No more Modern Pro Tours means Wizards will probably be more laid back in managing the format.
That's the whole reason they got rid of the modern PT if I recall. They admitted they were doing annual bannings to make the PT more interesting and it was pissing everyone off. This was a bit after the Twin ban. I am still really hoping they give us Twin back.
When I saw Gearhulk spoilered I immediately wrote a paragraph on how we could play it even though it's very expensive but then I realized it can't flashback AV and went crtl+A delete
Yeah...that would for sure be an auto-include in this deck. I just don't think there are enough instants to make this thing worth it.
His idea in theory has merit, slowing the meta down by denying many aggressive turn one plays but ultimately it would be a Mental Misstep lottery to see who drew the most copies and can push their T1 play out first. In a Mental Misstep Modern, Aggro would be even more obnoxious as when the dust settles they'll probably still have enough gas while their opponent starts at 18-16 life, not including mana bases.
As for Stoneforge Mystic, I think even her biggest detractors can agree Mental Misstep is far worse.
Ok if we are actually discussing MM, it's not necessarily a power level problem. It is the fact that every deck in the format would be forced to run 4. It is the most format warping card ever printed, that is why it will stay on the banned list forever. If every deck was forced to run 4x of a card to stay competitive, that card is not ok.
SFM would not be as warping as people think, but she would go into every white deck in the format, so I doubt WOTC wants that. I personally would be fine with it because I would throw her into Abzan so fast and start throwing swords on Souls tokens, but I don't think it will happen.
Jace is an extremely safe unban but WOTC is probably terrified of the secondary market, like everyone has said. I imagine he spikes to Goyf levels and then settles back down to around Lilly. Maybe lower once people see he isn't as good in Modern as he is in Legacy.
Burn would have zero issues with SFM. Literally just bolt SFM and they are good to go. Skullcrack, Atarkas, etc. It would be just fine.
Wouldn't burn just run SFM? being able to cheat out any sword like War and Peace or Fire Ice doesn't seem bad. This is part of the difficulty in assuming what if's about the banned list. To many variables to account for not the least of which is what if SFM alters any deck running W to start playing it? The possibilities given a unbanning are to much for anyone to really account for given that you cannot build every single best post ban deck of ever deck and test it ignoring any new deck that it might spawn.
Posts like these are why I question if half the people in this thread actively play modern. Burn would rather play goyf based on the argument that you are making and they don't because they would rather play bolt effects because burn wants to be hard to interact with.
All of bizzycola's arguments are pretty bad, I stopped responding. He thinks Mental Misstep is less format warping than SFM :/
I will say regardless of GP Dallas, that Dredge needs to be dealt with, not entirely banned but just something needs to take a hit. As for unbans, I would go with BBE and nothing else.
I dunno, Dredge is starting to seem like a less resilient Affinity (by less resilient I mean it folds to hate worse than Affinity). It is much harder to deal with than non-sideboard cards, however, which I think WOTC takes into account.
For now I do not think they will ban anything from Dredge and I think there is a chance we get an unban of something like BBE, but I kinda doubt it. I am betting no changes. They will look at this GP top 8 and say the meta is pretty healthy.
That said, I still want Preordain. Would throw that into Nahiri so fast....
To be more exact: Control players need to find a deck, which fits for them and than get good with it ^^
Greetings,
Kathal
And hope to dodge bad matchups. That's really helpful!
That's kind of every decks game plan tho isn't it? Jund hopes to dodge Tron and TitanShift, Tron hopes to dodge Burn and Infect, Infect hopes to dodge decks with removal, Dredge hopes to dodge Rest in Peace.
I dunno, I feel like that is the nature of the game.
I feel that feature is only exclusive to Modern, only because WOTC kills off decks that are just generically good (Pod, Twin, Eldrazi, Amulet Bloom) vs the entire field. I don't have the must dodge this deck feeling in Standard because of a small cardpool and the best deck just becomes obvious weeks after the Pro Tour. I don't have that feeling in Legacy either when you actually have the entire card pool available to deal with anything.
Fair enough. I also don't have the 'must dodge' feeling in Legacy unless I am in the same room as a Lands player (I play Shardless).
"Dredge is too strong" Only gets 2 decks in top 64 "Everyone got luck and drew their hate cards!"
"Control is Dead" Control takes top 3 at 2000+ GP "Complete Fluke! Literal Lottery Winners!"
"Grixis is awful" Grixis Control goes 14-0-1 in Swiss "Lucky draws! Variance! Still really awful!"
At some point you're going to need to admit to yourself that if you're not winning with a control deck, maybe you aren't as good at playing control as you thought.
Lol yep. To be fair Nahiri and Tasigur really helped two control archetypes. But I do love that the UWR list that won just said 'Nope' to win cons and straight up Cryptic'd people to death
I play with Jace in Legacy quite a bit. He is good but hardly gamebreaking.
And yes if we get to the late game and play Jace then the control deck is in a good position to win, but that is the point of playing control. Survive the early turns, stabilize, and drop your wincon.
Nahiri I just LOL slam on 4 after an Anger and you have two turns to go after her or kill me before I win.
Don't get me wrong if that thing got unbanned I would be thrilled and be back on Jund in a heartbeat, but it is too good. IMO the best creature ever printed.
Yep I bring Elspeth in against Grixis and Jund and she does work.
My last Grixis opponent Dreadbored my Nahiri and looked all smug about it and I immediately played Elspeth and won two turns later lol.
Liliana is arguably just as powerful as Jace (arguably) and BGx gets access to her. When I play Shardless, Liliana is very often more backbreaking for my opponent than Jace is. He dies to pretty much everything that kills other planeswalkers.
This would not make BGx die at all.
Yeah I was looking at it but the reason I didn't like it is the lack of flash. I liked the idea of a Gearhulk coming down and killing a Reality Smasher/Thought Knot or a Goyf while flashing back something sweet. Unfortunately our sweetest instant is Lightning Helix :/
That's the whole reason they got rid of the modern PT if I recall. They admitted they were doing annual bannings to make the PT more interesting and it was pissing everyone off. This was a bit after the Twin ban. I am still really hoping they give us Twin back.
Yeah...that would for sure be an auto-include in this deck. I just don't think there are enough instants to make this thing worth it.
The Timmy in me wants to make it happen...
EDIT: My God that masterpiece art is terrible
Ok if we are actually discussing MM, it's not necessarily a power level problem. It is the fact that every deck in the format would be forced to run 4. It is the most format warping card ever printed, that is why it will stay on the banned list forever. If every deck was forced to run 4x of a card to stay competitive, that card is not ok.
SFM would not be as warping as people think, but she would go into every white deck in the format, so I doubt WOTC wants that. I personally would be fine with it because I would throw her into Abzan so fast and start throwing swords on Souls tokens, but I don't think it will happen.
All of bizzycola's arguments are pretty bad, I stopped responding. He thinks Mental Misstep is less format warping than SFM :/
I dunno, Dredge is starting to seem like a less resilient Affinity (by less resilient I mean it folds to hate worse than Affinity). It is much harder to deal with than non-sideboard cards, however, which I think WOTC takes into account.
For now I do not think they will ban anything from Dredge and I think there is a chance we get an unban of something like BBE, but I kinda doubt it. I am betting no changes. They will look at this GP top 8 and say the meta is pretty healthy.
That said, I still want Preordain. Would throw that into Nahiri so fast....
Fair enough. I also don't have the 'must dodge' feeling in Legacy unless I am in the same room as a Lands player (I play Shardless).
Lol yep. To be fair Nahiri and Tasigur really helped two control archetypes. But I do love that the UWR list that won just said 'Nope' to win cons and straight up Cryptic'd people to death