MTG Salvation

Quote from Jex »

I don't think Ancestral Vision does anything to our deck. It's only good in the first 3 turns, but is otherwise useless. If you're running it, which I think is quite a bad idea, going above 3 copies sounds incredibly risky.

However, I agree that this is big for control mostly because Eye is finally gone, that bastard of a card. Now we can happily beat RG Tron after stopping the dreaded T3 Karn. UW Tron will remain unbeatable, which I think is important, since now RG doesn't seem like the de facto best variant. Sword of the Meek + Thopter Foundry could be a playable combo for the deck, but with so few ways to reliably get that combo out (no Enlightened Tutor, although there is Trinket Mage for the Sword) I feel like it's best leaving that to the UB/Esper Tezzerator decks.

I'm not confident we have to do anything drastic to our list, we almost certainly won't want to change direction entirely, but time will tell what sideboard we need. The meta will be quite different, and I'd be mindful of what Tezzerator decks will pop up.

I disagree. I predict within a month UWR lists will run 4.

UWR wins the long game. Whether we are playing AV turn 1 or turn 4, there are plenty of spells in this deck to hold the opponent off. Verdicts, Remands, spot removal, etc. Then you reload your hand and start again. I will be jamming 4.

Quote from Lantern »

ARRRRREEE THEY TRYING TO MAKE THEIR COVERAGE TEAM GOOD OR SOMETHING?

No sign of Randy Buehler...so...maybe?

Quick aside here:

I took first place in an 8-man Legacy tournament last night with Merfolk. Had some proxies and such. Beat Miracles, Bug Delver, and a bad brew.

Force of Will makes this deck feel so smooth. Good hell. I really REALLY wish WOTC would just print FOW in a Modern legal set and give this format access to it. It is such a great police card.

The question I have in relation to Modern, is why does Legacy Fish not run Spreading Seas effects and Modern always does? Is it mainly due to True-Name Nemesis? I am NOT advocating taking out Spreading Seas obviously, it is essential. Just asking.

Anyway, sorry to go off topic. I just got a taste of how powerful Fish can really be and it was intoxicating.

Quote from Bearscape »

Lol when someone started talking about CoCo in merfolk I wanted to make a joke about how "cursecatcher is secretly bad" was next on the merfolk thread cycle of beaten to death horses but I thought it was too harsh

Everyone please go ahead and splash white for path and green for coco and cut Cursecatchers for Cosi's Trickster, maybe add some Thassas and Skaab Ruinators while you're at it. I'm not gonna stop you

I....I really want to make Thassa happen....:/

Chalice is hilarious against Suicide Zoo.

I had a very late game Chalice (well, it was turn 5, so in that MU that is late game) that I dropped for 1. He had one threat left (a 5/5 Death's Shadow) and I was at 2 life. I bounced the Death's Shadow with Harbinger and he just dropped his hand to show me a fist full of one drops. It was a good time.

Quote from Zulzanet »

Quote from rothgar13 »

Detention Sphere is way too slow to make a dent against Eldrazi. 1- and 2-mana answers are the order of the day against them, both to preserve your tempo and to make sure you're fast enough to disrupt theirs. Furthermore, it and Journey to Nowhere both fall prey to all of the enchantment hate they've been packing of late to fight off Worship (not to mention that it's sorcery-speed removal, which doesn't do as good a job of damage prevention as you would like). Ratchet Bomb, World Breaker, all those sorts of things make your removal sad. We also just discussed how Chalice of the Void is poorly positioned, because how much of a dud it is against them. I don't see this list being very successful against them. Polymorphist's Jest is a sweet combat trick, but getting the creature setup to take advantage of it in a timely fashion is virtually impossible without Æther Vial, and aggressive mulling for Vial is probably going to just get you beat because of hands lacking essential components.

Feel free to post alternatives that can deal with TKS or Reality smasher which are the bigger problems. As far as merfolk is concerned, going mono-U only leaves us with bounces (which are NOT good against eldrazi) or counterspells (which are also NOT good against eldrazis that fall before turn 2-3). Most removal you may hint at costs 1 and all too often a chalice for 1 will fall before you can whip it out.

So far, I haven't had problems with this setup (unless they get the nut draw and deal 20 dmg on turn 2).

2x Dismember and 5-6 Seas effects have been working ok for me. I am 1-1 against the list at FNM (I don't play online). Yeah I lose to their nut draw but they lose to vial into Lord - Lord quite a bit too.

Quote from the mouth of gix »

Quote from ktkenshinx »

They didn't test the cards in Modern. People want cards tested for Modern and targeted at Modern, not cards that are tested purely in Standard and end up breaking our format. They screwed this up with TC and DTT as well. This laziness or unwillingness is unsustainable for Modern if the format is to enjoy widespread competitive support for a long time.

can you show me the source that says they didn't consider modern at all when they designed these eldrazi? I would be curious to see it. I don't think they were expecting the deck to be quite so explosive, but you really think wotc 'forgot' about eye of ugin and eldrazi temple before making these cards?

https://twitter.com/mtgaaron/status/702396787190009856

Here you go. They don't test for Modern.

Forsythe's tweet last night on the Twin ban and ensuing chaos:

https://twitter.com/mtgaaron/status/702322046634586112

Lol

Quote from polaski »

Ah man, not on the water goblin art? Way cooler lol!

I like the pack art better. I do want a playset of the FNM one just for fun tho.

Right now I am trying to decide if I want the foil 7th edition Lord of Atlantis or foil Timeshifted....ugh. I will say it is easier to foil this deck than Jund!

Quote from mehgic »

I played with with 2 MB Echoing Truths for awhile and it's actually pretty good. With so many Bridges, Worships, and other annoying permanents, I think it's a really good card to have somewhere in the 75.

I also play with 2x MB Echoing Truths. It seems more often than not the cards that I just lose to are taken care of with Truth (Ensnaring Bridge, Ghostly Prison, etc.)

On the topic of Reejerey, I am back up to 3x in the main and will be keeping it like that for the foreseeable future. I really like that card (plus the foils are freaking beautiful).

Been lurking for over a year now. Speaking up to give props to Nikachu, Fanattic and a few others for some solid advice.
Just won the 1k Modern 'season opener' at my LGS (in Seattle). Went up against Eldrazi 3 times and won so I think there's some hope?! Or else the pilots of those decks are still learning (they certainly hadn't played against Merfolk much). Last round of swiss felt like everyone around me was playing Eldrazi or Abzan -luckily dodged the few Affinity today Nikachu, I've been playing your latest main (though my SB's a bit crazy to test Chalice and Disdainful Stroke) save for 2 Echoing Truth maindeck over Spell Pierce, 3 Images at the expense of 1 Reejerey, and then 2 maindeck GQ. Each Eldrazi match felt formulaic -they smash my face down to 8 or so, fish stabilize, and then they play like an attrition match with poor removal. Image and Echoing Truth were all stars. Image wasn't as fragile as I feared and often vialed in to trade for Reality Smasher or Matter Reshaper; a few times they burned a dismember on my Image only for Echo to bounce it and their creature(s) -so sweet to then vial the Image back on Harbinger or the Master!

Quote from theaxman »

Quote from streetMage »

The pre-oath Eldrazi decks bring a new archetype and strategy other decks didnt before, especially with the processing angle.
Its new and refreshing.

The problem isn't Eye or Temple, its Thought-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher.
Ban those two cards and you still have a decent new Tier 2 deck that can evolve and thrive in Modern.
Thought-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher should have never been printed period!

Would you guys agree that just banning Seer and Smasher is enough?

So being able to cast free creatures on turn 1 that have the potential to swing for massive on turns 2-3 is not broken?

Affinity does this consistently...

Quote from RootaVootaZoop »

Quote from orlouge82 »

You could actually get away with just banning the Temple. Sure, they can drop four Eldrazi Mimics on turn 1, but then what are they going to do on turn 2 without a Temple? Play Wasteland Strangler? Maybe, but it wouldn't be nearly as broken as dropping a turn 2 Thought-Knot. They'd have to wait until turn 3 like a fair deck to drop a Thought-Knot, and turn four to drop a Reality Smasher. The extra turn makes a HUGE difference. The deck may even still be competitive. It would sure be a heck of a lot fairer.

T1: Eye of Ugin, Eldrazi Mimic, Eldrazi Mimic
T2: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Thought-Knot Seer, swing for 8 with 2 Mimics dropped T1.
T3: Endless One with 4 +1/+1 counters, Swing for Lethal.

It's Eye of Ugin and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth that are the first break. Eldrazi Temple is additional brokenness on top of that.

BTW, the Eldrazi Aggro list went wild in this event. The logical next move for the pros is going to be Eldrazi Control to top the Eldrazi Aggro lists. Ugin is the big break in both archetypes.

that doesnt work as you need C to cast thought-knot after eyes,2 reduction you need to pay 1C but can only produce BB with urborg

Just played at the Regionals in Providence. First of all AGGRO. Just aggro every-freakin-where. Played in 8 of the 10 rounds. Stared off very strong 4-1 but quickly lost next three in succession. Pretty poopy at the end of the day, but least I got a good feel for the deck and SB.


First the decklist
Don't remember all the details as I didn't take notes.

0-0 R1: Burn. W 2-0 Vial on 1 is just nuts. Used a phantasmal image to copy an Eidolon when I was ahead on life with a vial. Was pretty funny. Never really felt too pressured, just out tempoed him.

1-0 R2: Affinity. Obviously. L 2-1 in the matches. G1 he had a slow start (1 dude) and I MoW into MoW 5 then 6. Swing for lethal and luckily had a Kira out when he tried to galv blast a token...he didn't really read Kira lol. G2 he pooped his hand out and stomped me. G3 was a little more fair, but I didn't draw lands, had vial on 1 out but he just recast a skirge after I bounced it.

1-1 R3: RG Tron. Win 2-0. 2 GQ main and spreading seas made this match pretty easy. He managed to Ugin my board game 2, but I had a vial on 3 (for EoT Kira) and a Mutavault to swing for game.

2-1 R4: Affinity. Win 2-0 Like I said aggro city. Luckily got a chalice on 1 and just had more fish than him. Super lucky.

3-1 R5: UG Infect. Win 2-1. G1 I out fish him with lord, lord, lord and bounce his threats. G2 I bring in the chalices but they get stuck in my hand (had to GQ my own island to play a creature). He goes underneath with hierarch T1 then blighted agent (bane of my night). Just rolls me. G3 chalice on 1 and 2. GG. Casting fish through Cavern is pretty funny.

4-1 R6: UG Infect #2. Loss 0-2. Get screwed on lands G1, no interaction for his ******blighted agent and lose. G2 he keeps wild defiance in (???), T3 is like hmm i think you're dead. Distortion strike, kicked vines 2 trigger on defiance. Attacks with noble on the board for exalted and a spellskit backing up. Take 12 infect. WTF. I had 2 damn lands on board.

4-2 R7: Storm. Loss 0-2. G1 no disruption guy goes off at one life T4. G2 draw no hate, guy goes off T4. Land screwed both second game.

4-3 R8: UG Infect #3 (did I mention aggro was pretty widely represented?). G1 he lands a stupid blighted agent after I block his elves. See no harbingers or my 2 dismembers. G2 chalice on 1 is pretty good, have lethal on board and he scoops. G3 we go back and forth. I get chalice on 1, he blows up with Viridian Corrupter. He has an inkmoth, corruptor and a ***** blighted agent out. I activate a mutavault to block the corruptor, try to bounce the agent with echoing truth and take 1 infect. I spreading seas his inkmoth but continue to not draw land. He just exalted kills me with the blighted agent while I have blockers.

4-4 Overall, then dropped.

Have to say was over quite happy with the MB of the deck. Kira is still quite good as it blocks fliers/pestermites, stops spot removal 2 devotion...I really, really like 2 GQ main, good for fast stuff like infect and keeps tron off for just enough time. Was a little pissed that I got quite land screwed. Didn't see vial as much as I would have liked and found the games that I won I always had a vial. Didn't have crappy keeps either, usually 1-2 lands with lords and silvergills/seas. Spell pierce was good against pretty much tron only, and just for an O-stone. 3 chalice SB I found was too many. I drew em all in clusters and feel 2 is probably the most correct #. Dispel was meh, echoing truth was ok...never used negate, never sided tec edge in. Don't think you need 3 in the board (though I did not play BGx/midrange) and feel they are unnecessary for tron given out seas effects and my 2 GQ main. 2 may be the correct# there as well.

What I DID REALLY, REALLY, REALLY wish I had was more dismember. God more dismember. With all the damn aggro I saw between affinity and infect that card would have saved me. We just need 1 turn to set up lords (island walk is nuts and leads to misplays on opponents part). Bouncing threats sometimes is just not good enough as they usually replay them right away (affinity or infect). Kind of wish I had just played Jund for all the removal I needed haha. but the deck is powerful. I just feel I got land screwed quite a bit (without vial to mitigate the tempo loss) and wish I had more removal TBH.

Speaking from experience storm favors them, we have to race and they can honestly just wait until we would kill them next turn to craft a winning hand. They aren't really in any rush. I usually take out Dismember because if I use it on an electromancer that means they dont have to storm as big to kill me, they have to work for it. If they have it though they have it. Turn 2 and 3 kills are so frustrating which is what I have to put up with often because my local storm players know I can just unload a bunch of lords and kill them. It is also really frustrating to mull down to like 4 trying to get interaction because a hand of land and lords will just lose.

There are less goyf decks in my meta recently so I'm probably swapping to Grafdiggers over Relic. Storm, podless pod, and Goryo's Vengeance have been a pain for me to fight for awhile and just being able to put down a Cage and not worry about it is nice. True, holding up 1 mana for relic isn't really that hard but sometimes you just can't do it.

If you have a really bad hand Living End can fight through a chalice by just casting their fat dorks and killing your non-islands with Fulminator Mage. Usually speaking Chalice on 0 is an auto win for us but if you keep a weak hand just because of chalice you will find they have a surprising amount of fight in them. They also typically play a few artifact kill cards, with thanks to spirit guide they can get rid of it before they go off. Relic is usually your safest bet by minimizing the amount of stuff they can get back.

Sure does. They have to destroy the Chalice or they can't win.

Quote from Venomous72 »

Quote from SilvergillMaster »

I've honestly been considering Swan Song over Dispel again, because the 2/2 bird largely isn't relevant and it can answer much more stuff from bogles to storm to scapeshift. I'm probably gonna run 2 negate and either 2 swan song with 1 dispel or 2 dispel with 1 swan song. I rarely board in all 3 of my negates and even then having to sit on 2 mana can just be a pain if I don't have a vial in play.

I've never really liked Shoal, it lets us do some tricky stuff I admit but since most of our list turns it into a Spell Snare I remain skeptical at best. If wasteland stranger cost 2 or that Eldrazi Mimic deck pushes the other builds out of the format then I'll consider Shoal much stronger.

I like this a lot. I always forget Swan Song exists.

Edit: What is the best gameplan against Storm and Living End? Last night I was one swing away from lethal on Storm each time. Living end felt unfavored but I think I kept bad hands. Also didn't have any Relics in my SB.

Storm is a coin flip on G1. Strongly favor hands with tons of Lords in them, because you're probably going to have to race (the good news is that they put up next to no resistance to that plan, and actually ping themselves a bit with Shivan Reef and Steam Vents). Always save Spell Pierce for Past in Flames or Pyromancer Ascension - they typically can't go off without those tools. In G2 and/or 3, bringing in Chalice of the Void (x=1), Negate, and Relic of Progenitus tends to shut them out of the game.

Living End is a tricky matchup, but it's actually a good matchup. Cursecatcher is your G1 MVP, as it will buy your beaters an extra turn to finish your opponent off (just remember to counter the Living End itself and not the cascade enabler that auto-casts it). Don't blurt out your hand, though - put enough pressure on them such that they have to pop the LE or die, then repopulate the board and go at him again. Another tip is to sacrifice the Catcher even if LE would still resolve - you'll get it back that way. Your sideboard plan here is almost identical, with the exception of setting Chalice on 0 instead of 1.

Batterskull is unplayable in Modern. SFM is a very safe unban.

That's a cheeky Serum Visions. Yey!

Quote from IslandsAreBroken »

Quote from oaomcg »

Quote from IslandsAreBroken »

Quote from oaomcg »

Quote from Nikachu_ »

Everyone thinks this when they win a match vs Affinity. Long run I think everyone returns to earth and realizes this match up is terrible anyway. You could make the argument that most of the affinity opponents you play against are terrible and are vulnerable to Hurkyl's Recall, but Merfolk's success in large tournaments has consistently been because they avoided the match up entirely. That being said, I'm not hating Hurkyl's Recall right now, It's better than it's ever been in the past.

Trust me. I'm not naive enough to draw this conclusion from a sample size of 1. It's a general feeling i've had for a couple of months now. I've won my last 3 affinity matches on paper and I just went back and checked a ton of my MTGO replays and of my last 10 affinity matchups i've won 6 of them.

I'm certain you are only getting this win rate against mediocre to poor players. It's not possible for Merfolk to win at anything above 20/30% or so against good Affinity players - even with Hurkyl's recall/Harbinger. Everytime I hear this type of report Im like maybe im playing it wrong, maybe I should go back to 4x Recall with Chalice's. However. I never get this matchup positive and I start losing to BGx, Zoo, UWR decks etc - its a dangerous thing to start believing that your wins against mediocre affinity players means that you can ruin your sb - this just doesnt translate to high-level competition.

you can say things like "you're ruining your sideboard" all you want but the fact is that almost every merfolk deck that has been placing is running recalls, including 2 of the 3 in the top 12 of the SCG classic in Atlanta and the one that won a Super IQ the same day. It's clearly possible to improve your chances against Affinity AND do well in a large event at the same time.

This is anecdotal at best and not actually reflective of what goes on in reality - but hey if you want to believe this then good luck beating Burn/Zoo/GBx/UWR with your affinity list..

Not quite sure where you get your definition of anecdotal from..
How about some numbers?

here's every merfolk deck currently on the SCG front page

that's 16 decks running 44 copies of Hurkyl's Recall (average of 2.75 copies per deck)


SCG IQ 6th place (3 Recalls)
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=98290

SCG Classic 16th place (3 Recalls)
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=98252

SCG Super IQ 1st place (3 Recalls)
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=98142

SCG IQ 3rd place (3 Recalls)
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=98057

SCG Classic 2nd place (3 Recalls)
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=97992

SCG Classic 3rd place (0 Recalls)
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=97991

SCG Classic 12th place (3 Recalls)
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=97993

SCG IQ 7th place (3 Recalls)
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=98165

SCG IQ 7th place (4 Recalls)
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=98156

SCG IQ 3rd place (4 Recalls)
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=97847

SCG IQ 4th place (3 Recalls)
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=97848

SCG IQ 3rd place (0 Recalls)
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=97717

SCG IQ 2nd place (2 Recalls)
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=97708

SCG IQ 7th place (3 Recalls)
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=97705

SCG IQ 3rd place (4 Recalls)
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=98027

SCG IQ 5th place (3 Recalls)
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=98029