2 out of the 3 major threats to the combo can be beaten with Dispel, and honestly I think that since we're trying to win with this combo, Dispel is very MB playable as a 4-of. It answers pretty much everything our opponent will throw at us when the time comes to actually "gift" them the Pact, and protects the pact against most of the removal that can otherwise hit it in standard ATM. I love Grixis as the basis for this deck. Duress works great with Dispel too. Pack your 3 and 4 drop slots with Radiant Flames and Languish to keep the board clean, and everything 2 and under with single-target spot removal. Throw in a couple Murders as a catch-all for bigger creatures that cheap red removal can't handle. I think we only need 1 or 2 Harmless Offering in the deck, but 4 Pact is fine as long as we run some Dark Petitions to tutor it out. Jace, VP and Thing in the Ice both seem like great creatures for the deck, I don't really see anything else being needed or even better than either of these.
There's that nice new utility card Collective Brutality that will let us dump extra Pacts if we need to, same with Jace VP. Both slot nicely into the 2-drop section, along with that sorcery speed deal 3 damage spell coming in ENM, can't think of the name of it, and perhaps some Negates and Clash of Wills to help round out the counter package.
This is probably way too christmasland-y, but I was thinking a B/R deck that just powers the combo out ASAP.
Something like:
T1: Mountain
T2: Swamp - Vessel of Volatility
T3: Land - interact somehow
T4: Land - tree of Perdition
T5: Land - Sac Vessel, cast Triskaidekaphobia, cast Harmless Offering, giving them Triskaidekaphobia. Activate Tree of Perditon now or in response to the Trisk trigger on their turn. They get to choose how they die.
You know, once I write it all out, it definitely sounds way too christmasland-y. Lol.
I played this deck today at my LGS standard event against Mardu Aggro, Sultai villainous wealth ramp, and a bad Jeskai Aggro deck (person was new, deck was incomplete). Vs Mardu aggro, I drew (game 2 took awhile due to needing a ruling call and the judge being in the bathroom, I'm confident that I would have won game 3 if I had time). I was able to answer every threat he played with relative ease, Mainboard Anger of the Gods got there vs Rabblemaster. I lost to Sultai in game 3 due to a turn 3 Arbor Colossus. As soon as I was on 3 mana I was able to wrath the board and wipe his mana dorks, but I didnt draw into an Utter End or Hero's Downfall before the Colossus got there (Crackling Doom got boarded out due to few creature threats). Game 1 I lost due to a huge villainous wealth that hit on elspeth and 2 mardu Charms, game 2 I was able to thoughtseize and Mardu Charm his threats out of hand and win. The Jeskai Deck was an easy victory because, as mentioned, the deck was incomplete. Realistically I think I have a fairly poor matchup vs Jeskai Wins due to large amounts of burn on top of Sign in Blood and Thoughtseize hurting me. The Decklist is as follows.
The 2 Chandra, Pyromasters in the mainboard were 2 Zurgo Helmsmashers for the event as I hadn't yet played with Chandra and was unsure if I'd be able to use her to her full effectiveness in the mainboard, so 2 of them were sitting in the side (I acquired a 3rd later that day). I also only own 1 Brimaz. The sideboard for the event had 1 Deflecting Palm, 1 Brimaz, 1 Anger of the Gods, 2 Utter End, 4 Nyx-Fleece, 2 Deicide, 3 End Hostilities, 1 Resolute. I think that Jeskai Wins is the hardest matchup for this deck, with UB control being a close second due to it having better lategame. I think it has good matchups vs Mardu Aggro/Midrange, Abzan Midrange, All the low CMC aggro decks, and Green/x Devotion.
I'd like your thoughts on Sign in Blood vs Tormenting Voice now that Chandra is in the mainboard. I find myself doing a lot of damage to myself through Fetch Lands, Sign in Blood, and Thoughtseize, which can often times put me in a terrible position vs aggressive decks. While Tormenting Voice doesn't generate card advantage, it does feed empty the pits and allow me to pitch extra lands for more relevant cards. I also want to find a way to get more Stormbreath Dragon's into either the main or the sideboard, as that card is an absolute powerhouse against Esper/Abzan/Mardu.
What do you guys think of the deck? I'd love suggestions particularly concerning the sideboard as I feel it could use some work but I appreciate all constructive criticism.
I tested Hidden Strings extensively in my UW heroic list and i didn't like it. Because it's sorcery speed it usually ends up tapping down two opponents creatures and then swing in pumping creatures after damage. The problem is that this effect is only good on offense. If you are on the defensive it's mediocre. Unless you're using cards like Nivmagus Elemental that get extra mileage out of free spells I would prob cut them down to 2-3 max.
In my own list I ended up taking them out and putting in 1-2 gridlock. Instant speed is huge. I liked it's ability to tap down your opponents attackers while pumping up your creatures or to tap down potential blockers while still pumping your team before damage.
Firstly, while hidden strings doesn't pump for that turn's damage, it constantly grows your heroic creatures and once it's cyphered you can use it to essentially give two of your creatures vigilance and grow them. For free. Every turn. I don't know if I would ever use gridlock as an enabler, I get that you can EOT your opponent to ping your creatures for cheap, but you only get one ping and the spell is gone. In your deck, that makes more sense, considering you're running more than 2 heroic creatures. In mine, I'm choosing to emphasize what I consider to be the 2 best heroic creatures and not have to split my targeted spells among others. To be honest, 99% of the time you're going to want to put your targeted spells on Phalanx Leader and Fabled hero anyway, I see no reason to run the lower quality heroic creatures when all creatures can benefit from Phalanx Leader's heroic trigger the same way they would benefit from heroic triggering on themselves. The one thing I will note about your deck is artisan of forms. I really like the idea of having a way to have even more fabled heroes in the deck, but I'm not sure on how well it would play out. It's something I intend to playtest when I can. At the moment I'm strongly considering adding Frontline Medic to my board in place of the 2 Fiendslayer Paladins because indestructable could prove to be sufficiently more useful. Another contending card for his spot in the deck is the Spear of Heliod or perhaps Heliod himself. I feel like Fiendslayer is better on my sideboard to bring in against the red decks. I also like the idea of having Imposing Sovereign on the sideboard to swap out the Precinct Captains for.
I don't think I'd ever run madcap skills in this deck, I have 4 aqueous form and 3 Thassa to do what that card wants to do, but more reliably. I've actually been strongly considering dropping 4x plains for 4x Sacred Foundry and running 4x Boros Charm on the sideboard for the lame control matchup that runs 4x Supreme Verdict with 4x Sphinx's Revelation. I hate the fact that we're in a standard where a deck running 1 creature and nothing but stall actually can exist. I don't mind playing against control decks but when they literally make the game un-fun for anyone playing against them then it's just stupid. Your deck is basically, as you said, a budget version of what I'd like mine to be. I think that if I can work the mana base to be consistant on 3 colors then I'd certainly find a way to drop some things for boros Charms mainboard.
No no no precint captain
Battlewise hoplite is a MUCH better choice run X4 it continuously gives you scry to keep on hitting your triggers and stacking .
I'll playtest with both and see which I like more. I do really like being able to dig through the deck via scrying. I could also drop the remaining Fiendslayer Paladins for the Hoplites. Hmm.
Precint captain no
Hidden Strings yes x3
Trition tactics x3 because it is retardedly powerful against aggro, like closes out games powerful.
Triton tactics is indeed strong against aggro, but it can't guarantee protection like Gods Willing can. I suppose I could sideboard Gods Willing for the match-ups against people running black's kill spells, but I also like having the option of using Gods Willing as a form of unblockable if/when the need arises. Scrying also doesn't hurt.
I also decided I do like Precinct Captain in this deck because of how well he works with Phalanx Leader.
Thanks for all the feedback guys, I've updated the deck list in the thread to reflect some of the suggestions. I also dropped an island for another plains since post changes made the deck significantly more white intense.
snycopate is the best 2 mana conterspell out right now.
I cant decide how I feel about that card in this deck. Strong thanks to no targeting restrictions and being playable turn 2. It's weak in a control matchup because they will almost certainly have more mana available than me the longer the game goes.
Stymied Hopes is truly an amazing against aggro since they usually always tap out.
Essence Scatter takes care of their creatures for 2 mana without them having the option of stopping it, it doesn't answer burn though. Perhaps Syncopate would be stronger in this matchup.
Syncopate is the best allaround because of the graveyard since GB is also pretty relvant in standard (Reaper of the Wild Decks)
Dissolve is great as well your deck is late aggro/ fast mid range since if Fable Hero is dropped turn 3 by turn four it should be Aquaed up and Odealed up so you can draw two cards then win turn 5
Completely forgot about GB decks. That is very relevant. As for Dissolve, the main reason I've strayed away from it is the double blue requirement and the fact that I want to be using the first few turns where dissolve comes online to play my win cons instead of holding mana back for counters.
EDIT: I realized I forgot to address you bringing up Ordeal of Heliod. I'm uncertain about this card as well. I thought about it for awhile but decided that with the scry effects present in this deck, ordeal of Thassa would prove to be more useful. Ordeal of Heliod certainly helps push your life total out past what an aggro deck could reach though, if 1 resolves a RDW will be hurting, if 2 resolve they're all but guaranteed to lose. Perhaps it's sideboard material?
Basically I can't decide which counter package to run mainboard, but I do want to run some cheap counters. I think Essence scatter is strongest in the Gruul midrange matchup as a counter to their big creatures. Then again, Negate answers Domri, who is a serious threat because fight doesn't trigger the double strike on Fabled Hero.
Silence is interesting. It's definitely strong in an aggro matchup, but my problem with it is they can still burn my creatures once it's my turn again. And outside the aggro matchup it has significant diminishing returns IMO. Maybe it would be stronger than I think because nobody would expect it so in game 1 it could mess with my opponent's game plan and then I could board it out for a counterspell package.
Omenspeaker certainly doesn't aggro, but then again this deck blows out later than most aggro decks, and Omenspeaker's 3 toughness is significant against the 2 power creatures of an aggro deck's early game. Scrying 2 is also very helpful for digging into my win con.
I came up with the idea for it in a theros draft where I blew out my opponent absurdly fast (for draft). I know people naturally dislike enchantments in decks as they open the possibility for 2 for 1 from removal, but here me out. With the heroic mechanic introduced, we can get value out of enchantments even if they are countered or removed later in the game. This deck focuses on blowing out the opponent in a few big turns.
Our game plan is to protect Fabled Hero for a few turns to put an Ordeal of Thassa and Aqueous Form on him and kill our opponent in 2 attack phases. I feel like the safe play would be a Fabled Hero on turn 4 with 1 Open mana to cast either of your 1 drop protection spells (Gods Willing triggers heroic :D) and then follow up turn 5 with an Aqueous Form, making him unblockable and adding a counter, and an Ordeal of Thassa, placing another counter on him, and a third counter on him when he attacks, which pops the Ordeal, draws you 2 cards (scry first with Aqueous Form), and deals 10 unblockable damage. Many of the cards in the deck feature the ability to scry, which will help you get through your your deck to the card you may need for any given situation. The strength that I feel this deck has over other heroic decks is that it has 1 mana answers to removal that breaks the backs of other Heroic themed decks. Thassa provides another way to give your creatures unblockable, as well as scrying every upkeep. I'm just wondering what people think of the deck and if they have any suggestions or thoughts about how well it would perform.
Some things worth noting: Ordeal will always add 1 counter on a swing before it breaks, as it doesn't check the number of counters on the creature until after one is added. On top of heroic triggers, Odeal can quickly turn into a 2 mana Divination with benefits. You can use Gods willing to create a pseudo unblockable state for your creature by giving protection before blockers are declared.
There's that nice new utility card Collective Brutality that will let us dump extra Pacts if we need to, same with Jace VP. Both slot nicely into the 2-drop section, along with that sorcery speed deal 3 damage spell coming in ENM, can't think of the name of it, and perhaps some Negates and Clash of Wills to help round out the counter package.
Something like:
T1: Mountain
T2: Swamp - Vessel of Volatility
T3: Land - interact somehow
T4: Land - tree of Perdition
T5: Land - Sac Vessel, cast Triskaidekaphobia, cast Harmless Offering, giving them Triskaidekaphobia. Activate Tree of Perditon now or in response to the Trisk trigger on their turn. They get to choose how they die.
You know, once I write it all out, it definitely sounds way too christmasland-y. Lol.
Link - http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/standard-deck-creation/576322-mardu-planeswalker-control
2 Battlefield Forge
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Mountain
3 Nomad Outpost
2 Scoured Barrens
3 Swamp
4 Temple of Malice
3 Temple of Silence
3 Temple of Triumph
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Creatures
1 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Crackling Doom
2 Empty the Pits
3 Hero's Downfall
4 Lightning Strike
4 Mardu Charm
2 Utter End
Sorcery
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Sign in Blood
3 Thoughtseize
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Deicide
3 End Hostilities
4 Nyx-Fleece Ram
1 Resolute Archangel
The 2 Chandra, Pyromasters in the mainboard were 2 Zurgo Helmsmashers for the event as I hadn't yet played with Chandra and was unsure if I'd be able to use her to her full effectiveness in the mainboard, so 2 of them were sitting in the side (I acquired a 3rd later that day). I also only own 1 Brimaz. The sideboard for the event had 1 Deflecting Palm, 1 Brimaz, 1 Anger of the Gods, 2 Utter End, 4 Nyx-Fleece, 2 Deicide, 3 End Hostilities, 1 Resolute. I think that Jeskai Wins is the hardest matchup for this deck, with UB control being a close second due to it having better lategame. I think it has good matchups vs Mardu Aggro/Midrange, Abzan Midrange, All the low CMC aggro decks, and Green/x Devotion.
I'd like your thoughts on Sign in Blood vs Tormenting Voice now that Chandra is in the mainboard. I find myself doing a lot of damage to myself through Fetch Lands, Sign in Blood, and Thoughtseize, which can often times put me in a terrible position vs aggressive decks. While Tormenting Voice doesn't generate card advantage, it does feed empty the pits and allow me to pitch extra lands for more relevant cards. I also want to find a way to get more Stormbreath Dragon's into either the main or the sideboard, as that card is an absolute powerhouse against Esper/Abzan/Mardu.
Edit: Raphael Levy ran a deck similar to this in the PT, here's a link to his tweet about it: https://twitter.com/hahamoud/status/521182846044499968
What do you guys think of the deck? I'd love suggestions particularly concerning the sideboard as I feel it could use some work but I appreciate all constructive criticism.
Firstly, while hidden strings doesn't pump for that turn's damage, it constantly grows your heroic creatures and once it's cyphered you can use it to essentially give two of your creatures vigilance and grow them. For free. Every turn. I don't know if I would ever use gridlock as an enabler, I get that you can EOT your opponent to ping your creatures for cheap, but you only get one ping and the spell is gone. In your deck, that makes more sense, considering you're running more than 2 heroic creatures. In mine, I'm choosing to emphasize what I consider to be the 2 best heroic creatures and not have to split my targeted spells among others. To be honest, 99% of the time you're going to want to put your targeted spells on Phalanx Leader and Fabled hero anyway, I see no reason to run the lower quality heroic creatures when all creatures can benefit from Phalanx Leader's heroic trigger the same way they would benefit from heroic triggering on themselves. The one thing I will note about your deck is artisan of forms. I really like the idea of having a way to have even more fabled heroes in the deck, but I'm not sure on how well it would play out. It's something I intend to playtest when I can. At the moment I'm strongly considering adding Frontline Medic to my board in place of the 2 Fiendslayer Paladins because indestructable could prove to be sufficiently more useful. Another contending card for his spot in the deck is the Spear of Heliod or perhaps Heliod himself. I feel like Fiendslayer is better on my sideboard to bring in against the red decks. I also like the idea of having Imposing Sovereign on the sideboard to swap out the Precinct Captains for.
I don't think I'd ever run madcap skills in this deck, I have 4 aqueous form and 3 Thassa to do what that card wants to do, but more reliably. I've actually been strongly considering dropping 4x plains for 4x Sacred Foundry and running 4x Boros Charm on the sideboard for the lame control matchup that runs 4x Supreme Verdict with 4x Sphinx's Revelation. I hate the fact that we're in a standard where a deck running 1 creature and nothing but stall actually can exist. I don't mind playing against control decks but when they literally make the game un-fun for anyone playing against them then it's just stupid. Your deck is basically, as you said, a budget version of what I'd like mine to be. I think that if I can work the mana base to be consistant on 3 colors then I'd certainly find a way to drop some things for boros Charms mainboard.
I'll playtest with both and see which I like more. I do really like being able to dig through the deck via scrying. I could also drop the remaining Fiendslayer Paladins for the Hoplites. Hmm.
Triton tactics is indeed strong against aggro, but it can't guarantee protection like Gods Willing can. I suppose I could sideboard Gods Willing for the match-ups against people running black's kill spells, but I also like having the option of using Gods Willing as a form of unblockable if/when the need arises. Scrying also doesn't hurt.
I also decided I do like Precinct Captain in this deck because of how well he works with Phalanx Leader.
I cant decide how I feel about that card in this deck. Strong thanks to no targeting restrictions and being playable turn 2. It's weak in a control matchup because they will almost certainly have more mana available than me the longer the game goes.
Essence Scatter takes care of their creatures for 2 mana without them having the option of stopping it, it doesn't answer burn though. Perhaps Syncopate would be stronger in this matchup.
Completely forgot about GB decks. That is very relevant. As for Dissolve, the main reason I've strayed away from it is the double blue requirement and the fact that I want to be using the first few turns where dissolve comes online to play my win cons instead of holding mana back for counters.
EDIT: I realized I forgot to address you bringing up Ordeal of Heliod. I'm uncertain about this card as well. I thought about it for awhile but decided that with the scry effects present in this deck, ordeal of Thassa would prove to be more useful. Ordeal of Heliod certainly helps push your life total out past what an aggro deck could reach though, if 1 resolves a RDW will be hurting, if 2 resolve they're all but guaranteed to lose. Perhaps it's sideboard material?
Silence is interesting. It's definitely strong in an aggro matchup, but my problem with it is they can still burn my creatures once it's my turn again. And outside the aggro matchup it has significant diminishing returns IMO. Maybe it would be stronger than I think because nobody would expect it so in game 1 it could mess with my opponent's game plan and then I could board it out for a counterspell package.
Omenspeaker certainly doesn't aggro, but then again this deck blows out later than most aggro decks, and Omenspeaker's 3 toughness is significant against the 2 power creatures of an aggro deck's early game. Scrying 2 is also very helpful for digging into my win con.
3x Precinct Captain
4x Fabled Hero
2x Fiendslayer Paladin
4x Phalanx Leader
3x Soldier of the Pantheon
4x Aqueous Form
4x Ordeal of Thassa
3x Thassa, God of the Sea
Instants
4x Brave the Elements
3x Gods Willing (These may get swapped out for Frontline Medic)
4x Hidden Strings
Lands
4x Hallowed Fountain
7x Island
11x Plains
Our game plan is to protect Fabled Hero for a few turns to put an Ordeal of Thassa and Aqueous Form on him and kill our opponent in 2 attack phases. I feel like the safe play would be a Fabled Hero on turn 4 with 1 Open mana to cast either of your 1 drop protection spells (Gods Willing triggers heroic :D) and then follow up turn 5 with an Aqueous Form, making him unblockable and adding a counter, and an Ordeal of Thassa, placing another counter on him, and a third counter on him when he attacks, which pops the Ordeal, draws you 2 cards (scry first with Aqueous Form), and deals 10 unblockable damage. Many of the cards in the deck feature the ability to scry, which will help you get through your your deck to the card you may need for any given situation. The strength that I feel this deck has over other heroic decks is that it has 1 mana answers to removal that breaks the backs of other Heroic themed decks. Thassa provides another way to give your creatures unblockable, as well as scrying every upkeep. I'm just wondering what people think of the deck and if they have any suggestions or thoughts about how well it would perform.
Some things worth noting: Ordeal will always add 1 counter on a swing before it breaks, as it doesn't check the number of counters on the creature until after one is added. On top of heroic triggers, Odeal can quickly turn into a 2 mana Divination with benefits. You can use Gods willing to create a pseudo unblockable state for your creature by giving protection before blockers are declared.