I like Groundbreakers a lot, they just don't expect them. Yes, I know, they are weak, bad, they die, blablabla... Can't count the number of games I've won casting this on T4 with E1 and Geist on battlefield, swinging with them all, then Aspect on any of them.
I'll probably cut some duals for plains, think there are too many just for one or two cards that require black mana, and I lost some games to decks using Blood moon because of too many non basic lands
So far I'm quite happy with the results. I think Aven Mindcensor has to be in MB, it's just very good. It can stop Chord of calling, prevent finding lands when you Path to Exile something or they crack a fetch, make useless Expedition Map, etc
The Leylines came back in after some discussions with people I trust that either they were going to be enough to slow Scapeshift down or I lose that game anyway. Ghostly Prison over Worship since any deck that can go wider than me can kill my creatures anyway (with the exception of Death's Shadow.)
I'm so pumped. Feeling really good after grinding a lot of testing match ups and finding ways to win despite all the nonsense. Even bad match ups are starting to get a little easier.
I've been inching towards that for a while and been fine with it. Sorin gives me a similar body to Ranger when he hits the board if I need it (2/2 kills just as well as a 3/2, most of the time), or allows me to curve into 4-6+ lifelink damage if I just casted hit Spirits, which is just as good. Too often, Ranger was hitting the board and getting me two sisters or a Serra that wasn't ready to win me the game, so I cut him.
I've been running the list above, with minimal changes: +4 Flagstones of Trokair MB, - 4 Plains MB, and some SB changes
Felt the same about Ranger of Eos, but I feel the following too:
- Archangel of Thune has been a win-more in my matchups. By the time I was able to cast her I was very ahead. Games I've not been able to cast her were lots, and ended up being a dead card in hand
- Windbrisk heights are very slow and annoying lot of times. The number of games I've had them in play doing nothing more than giving mana have been countless. Games where I've been able to activate them I hit an Ajani's Pridemate, or something not very exciting... I guess the best way to exploit them is having 3 tokens, attack, then reveal a Honor of the Pure
In the past I was running a Martyr list, but I think Lingering Souls is so good that has to be in this deck.
So what can we do? Should we play mana dorks and go bigger? That would make aspect better, the deck can get more explosive depending on the type of ramp we get, things like elvish pioneer dont see play at all but if it would see play it will be on a mono green deck that doesnt care about non basics.
Often decks like this rely on well developed curves, hence why we need better one drops, because by turn two or/and three we need to be either playing a two drop or two one drops and reach similar power on board, and by turn three we need a three drop, or a two drop and a one drop, or three one drops and reach similar power on board, and this turn three play has to be delivering over 8 damage if we want to be competing with the decks that exist on modern.
And that brings to the table the place of cards like groundbreaker, and boggart ram-gang and strangleroot geist, which are great when put together as they make very explosive plays, but those explosive plays are not winning plays unless we can give them evasion and/or resilience, which some of them have, and are best paired with cards like aspect of hydra.
The problem with stompy rightly pointed out by Culthero is that on modern, stompy is not as stompy as it should be in comparisson to the bombs other archetypes have, the fact that some of us care about a card like narnam renegade is a sign of that, we shouldn't be trading with deathtouch but rather with raw power and we are not, specially when a one mana 8/8 exists, or a 4 mana thats more like a 3 mana 4/4 with upside is played on curve and followed by a 5/5 with trample.
The strengths of stompy are that it is consistent on what it does(a great sign) even if what it does is not good enough due to e lack of pieces, we dont bolt ourselves, we dont get mana screwed too often, we play into virtual card advantage by playing our undercosted high power creatures.
If we go the pseudo ramp way, we can consider cards like thragtusk which is very stompy on itself, as it has pseudo resilience and good power, even though by a bigger stompy we can go many routes, one is CoCo, which is kind of constrained by its own conditions and needs to be explosive and just explosive, ot going just bigger, and cards like the new green god play really well into that, and the bigger we go, the better stompy pieces we find, the only problem is how fast can we find em or how can we slow down the game so our "fair strategy" is good enoug to close a game before the opponent does.
I guess this will end up in a similar way it did with white life-gaining decks: they splitted in two, one being Soul Sisters (more aggro) and the other one being Martyr Proc (more control and resilient). But again, for one of the possible two versions, Stompy is not in a good position for late game, so I don't know...
Seems that what everyone should do is just copy your list and that's it. You are in possession of the real and only truth, this starts to be overwhelming, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who's tired of your manners.
You don't need to call "bad players" to other people that has been running this deck successfully with way different cards that the ones you are playing. For instance, the chilean player who got 1st in a 60+ people event playing with several cards that are rarely mentioned/included in lists here. Oh, even groundbreakers! But he's obviously very bad
I've been playing with narnam, and I could call you "bad" as well because it really sucks most of the time for the aim of this deck, IMO.
Stompy is not, and I think it will never be, a T1 deck, so don't expect superpros to come here. Hey, bad news, you are not a pro so please stop posting like that
What I was saying about fatal push/groundbreaker is simply that they will not expect a 6/1 haste when they are tapped out. Not just for fatal push, but also path to exile, dismember, etc... I was talking about fatal push just because it's the most popular removal spell right now, with the rise of Death's decks
I think it most depends on what your metagame is, and how you play, not how "good" you are.
Apologies everyone for the rant. And please excuse any typos/grammar errors, English is not my mother tongue
Fatal push kills almost anything in modern, it's really easy to trigger revolt.
And I rarely take out all aspects when siding, mostly just one. And it's been running amazing for me this way.
Regarding 4 lands for aspect + groundbreaker, it's obvious that I wasn't taking about a t4 kill, which is very hard at least for me nowadays. But a t5 or t6 is feasible, and your board normally has one or two other creatures at that time. Casting a 6/1 haste trample, and giving it +5/+5 or maybe even more is just nuts, and stoles a lot of games. Just give it a try, even if it sounds bad, I was dubious it would work, but trust me it does
I love me some aspect but if you have been with the new wave of stompy players who have cut Leatherback Baloth or for some reason are playing Groundbreaker over Leatherback, you really do not have a good reason to run Aspect over Blossoming Defense or Dismember. Aspect is not a must for this deck.
I have to disagree. I've been playing stompy for about 2 years, and I've replaced 2 baloths for 2 groundbreakers, for two reasons:
- They never see coming a groundbreaker. It has haste and trample, and it's almost guaranteed to hit for something.
- Fatal push. Casting baloth then instantly killing it is annoying. With groundbreaker this is possible as well, but since it has haste, you can simply use it as finisher with an Aspect (which gives at least +3/+3 for it, normally gives at least +5/+5 because by using it as finisher you have something on BF, and remember it has trample) when they pass turn tapped.
For me, Aspect is clearly a must for Stompy. At least, in my experience it wins a lot of games on its own.
Yeah well, you pump a creature the turn after you cast the god... Then they kill the creature, so you can't attack. It will feel bad to pay 2g for a one-turn rancor (you will rarely get to pay for two effects) and never been able to use it
Could you explain some of your choices? Why Dungrove elder with only 12 forests? Does it work well?
12 Forests and 8 fetches *is* 20 forests for a deck that will doesn't play a long enough game that it'll ever run out of fetchable forests. Anytime he plays a fetch, by the time it's relevant it has replaced itself with a forest. So for each card he draws there is a 20/60 (1 in 3)chance it results in a Forest that contributes to making Dungrove larger.
Sure, the deck thinning results in drawing a land being marginally less likely after one or more has been fetched out. But it's nowhere near like running 12 forests. And with how few forests this deck needs and how fast it optimally wins, the difference is nearly negligible.
Yeah, totally an oversight from my side. Reading the list first time I thought he was running 4 fetches and 4 Stomping Ground, but anyway, they count as forests as well, so Dungrove elder benefits from them too. Seems I was blind or whatever
By the way, Stompy got 1st place at a Modern event in Chile with 60+ people! Here's the list:
Interesting, just 20 lands and 4 of them ETB tapped. Also, has 2 Oath of Nissa and several out-of-radar cards in SB.
And you can watch the final here (vs Burn, opponent played with only one land...):
Sure. I currently don't like the list so far but it's w/e. Nothing special. Narnam Renegade has been pretty good so far but I liked the list more without fetches. Still need to do more testing.
4 Rancor
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Steel Leaf Champion
4 Strangleroot Geist
19 Forest
2 Dismember
4 Avatar of the Resolute
2 Treetop Village
2 Groundbreaker
4 Pelt Collector
2 Nature's Way
2 Feed the Clan
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Natural State
1 Back to Nature
2 Heroic Intervention
2 Damping Sphere
Going to try it in MTGO, will post impressions.
2 Windbrisk Heights
3 Ghost Quarter
4 Ajani's Pridemate
3 Martyr of Sands
3 Serra Ascendant
4 Soul's Attendant
3 Soul Warden
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Spectral Procession
4 Path to Exile
4 Honor of the Pure
1 Swamp
2 Ranger of Eos
4 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Auriok Champion
4 Concealed Courtyard
4 Lingering Souls
2 Godless Shrine
2 Rest in Peace
2 Suppression Field
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Stony Silence
1 Damping Sphere
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Brave the Elements
4 Rancor
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Steel Leaf Champion
4 Strangleroot Geist
19 Forest
2 Dismember
4 Avatar of the Resolute
2 Treetop Village
2 Groundbreaker
2 Nature's Way
2 Feed the Clan
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Natural State
1 Back to Nature
2 Heroic Intervention
2 Damping Sphere
I like Groundbreakers a lot, they just don't expect them. Yes, I know, they are weak, bad, they die, blablabla... Can't count the number of games I've won casting this on T4 with E1 and Geist on battlefield, swinging with them all, then Aspect on any of them.
I'll probably cut some duals for plains, think there are too many just for one or two cards that require black mana, and I lost some games to decks using Blood moon because of too many non basic lands
2 Windbrisk Heights
3 Ghost Quarter
4 Ajani's Pridemate
3 Martyr of Sands
3 Serra Ascendant
3 Soul's Attendant
3 Soul Warden
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Spectral Procession
4 Path to Exile
4 Honor of the Pure
1 Swamp
3 Ranger of Eos
4 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Auriok Champion
4 Concealed Courtyard
4 Godless Shrine
4 Lingering Souls
2 Rest in Peace
2 Suppression Field
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Stony Silence
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Anguished Unmaking
So far I'm quite happy with the results. I think Aven Mindcensor has to be in MB, it's just very good. It can stop Chord of calling, prevent finding lands when you Path to Exile something or they crack a fetch, make useless Expedition Map, etc
I've been running the list above, with minimal changes: +4 Flagstones of Trokair MB, - 4 Plains MB, and some SB changes
Felt the same about Ranger of Eos, but I feel the following too:
- Archangel of Thune has been a win-more in my matchups. By the time I was able to cast her I was very ahead. Games I've not been able to cast her were lots, and ended up being a dead card in hand
- Windbrisk heights are very slow and annoying lot of times. The number of games I've had them in play doing nothing more than giving mana have been countless. Games where I've been able to activate them I hit an Ajani's Pridemate, or something not very exciting... I guess the best way to exploit them is having 3 tokens, attack, then reveal a Honor of the Pure
In the past I was running a Martyr list, but I think Lingering Souls is so good that has to be in this deck.
I was also running Squadron Hawk instead of Archangel of Thune in that past list, but without Martyr of Sands in the deck now, I don't really know which way I have to take...
I guess this will end up in a similar way it did with white life-gaining decks: they splitted in two, one being Soul Sisters (more aggro) and the other one being Martyr Proc (more control and resilient). But again, for one of the possible two versions, Stompy is not in a good position for late game, so I don't know...
You don't need to call "bad players" to other people that has been running this deck successfully with way different cards that the ones you are playing. For instance, the chilean player who got 1st in a 60+ people event playing with several cards that are rarely mentioned/included in lists here. Oh, even groundbreakers! But he's obviously very bad
I've been playing with narnam, and I could call you "bad" as well because it really sucks most of the time for the aim of this deck, IMO.
Stompy is not, and I think it will never be, a T1 deck, so don't expect superpros to come here. Hey, bad news, you are not a pro so please stop posting like that
What I was saying about fatal push/groundbreaker is simply that they will not expect a 6/1 haste when they are tapped out. Not just for fatal push, but also path to exile, dismember, etc... I was talking about fatal push just because it's the most popular removal spell right now, with the rise of Death's decks
I think it most depends on what your metagame is, and how you play, not how "good" you are.
Apologies everyone for the rant. And please excuse any typos/grammar errors, English is not my mother tongue
And I rarely take out all aspects when siding, mostly just one. And it's been running amazing for me this way.
Regarding 4 lands for aspect + groundbreaker, it's obvious that I wasn't taking about a t4 kill, which is very hard at least for me nowadays. But a t5 or t6 is feasible, and your board normally has one or two other creatures at that time. Casting a 6/1 haste trample, and giving it +5/+5 or maybe even more is just nuts, and stoles a lot of games. Just give it a try, even if it sounds bad, I was dubious it would work, but trust me it does
I have to disagree. I've been playing stompy for about 2 years, and I've replaced 2 baloths for 2 groundbreakers, for two reasons:
- They never see coming a groundbreaker. It has haste and trample, and it's almost guaranteed to hit for something.
- Fatal push. Casting baloth then instantly killing it is annoying. With groundbreaker this is possible as well, but since it has haste, you can simply use it as finisher with an Aspect (which gives at least +3/+3 for it, normally gives at least +5/+5 because by using it as finisher you have something on BF, and remember it has trample) when they pass turn tapped.
For me, Aspect is clearly a must for Stompy. At least, in my experience it wins a lot of games on its own.
Yeah, totally an oversight from my side. Reading the list first time I thought he was running 4 fetches and 4 Stomping Ground, but anyway, they count as forests as well, so Dungrove elder benefits from them too. Seems I was blind or whatever
By the way, Stompy got 1st place at a Modern event in Chile with 60+ people! Here's the list:
Interesting, just 20 lands and 4 of them ETB tapped. Also, has 2 Oath of Nissa and several out-of-radar cards in SB.
And you can watch the final here (vs Burn, opponent played with only one land...):
https://www.facebook.com/magicsur.chile/videos/1480895145256443/
Could you explain some of your choices? Why Dungrove elder with only 12 forests? Does it work well?
Also, is Fog any good? When? And I'm intrigued about Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, when/why do you move it to your main?
Personally, I'd move to the SB Thrun, the last troll, and add one more Dungrove Elder. And I don't get why Thragtusk or Fog. Also don't like Skylasher, but if it worked with that list...
Having two Groundbreakers makes sense to have just 2 Dismember and 4 Aspect of hydra, IMO