So... been noticing that a few of the cubes from board members tend to have these sizes that fall between 360-450 (I recall at least 370 and 400). Is this a practice that happens because of the variance it introduces? Because people feel like testing cards without making cuts? Because it's nice to have a section of pet cards that you can fill on a whim? Just wondering. I have a 360 cube and I cringe everything I need to take something out to make room for a card I finally got.
Thanks a lot, guys... I was really fixated on the idea that I had to pick one cycle to cover a dual land slot alone. I think I have a better idea on how to proceed now.
@Eidolon:
Thanks for the detailed analysis. Now, I just came back to playing limited recently and I'm curious as to why you rate the bouncelands as better options over the filters for the control heavy pairs (UW, UB, UR). Are they just plain better most of the time?
Hey MTGS cubers! I've been building a 360 unpowered cube that I'm close to completing soon.
Now, since I've set something resembling a budget for it and every 360 cube seems to provide an average of 30 dual lands to support itself I've been thinking how should I go about these 30 lands.
I currently have (or I'm very close to completing) a full set of Shocklands, Painlands and M10/Innistrad Checklands. Would you guys consider these to be reasonable budget lands to support the cube if I can't get ABU lands nor fetches? Also... if in the future I could get a full set of fetches, which duals should I replace? The checklands or the painlands?
I see the deck you have is pretty nice, almost the same as mine, lol. I'd like to see the sideboard, there is where problems come depending local metagame.
Most if it is for the control match up as you can see. I side Vizkopa at times for the hilarity of semi-double/triple strike with its second ability.
Most of my desire to go into other colors is fixing that dreaded turn 2 when you have no Hoplite/Thoughtseize in your opening hand. I think someone already said this in the other thread, but one downfall of BW Heroes is that you want to end up building monoThreeDrop.dec... all the good stuff is cmc 3 (Lifebane, Hero's Downfall, Underworld Connections, Fabled Hero, Agent, Fiendslayer, etc).
Hey Aoi, it's really cool to see someone trying to develop this deck. I saw (what I figured is) your updated version in the W/x thread and I have to say it looks pretty sweet.
I've been running something very much like this in the past weeks, making a bunch of changes that haven't always been for the best.
a) Have you tested Heliod vs Underworld Connections? Haven't really had time to test UC, but Heliod has proven not too shabby for me in those games that stretch.
b) How's Nighthowler working for you? Don't you find it a "win more" card?
c) Have you tried splashing other colors? I haven't really tried because it demands more time than I can currently put in, but the prospect of having access to Lotleth Troll, Golgari Charm/Selesnya Charm and possibly Warriors' Lesson looks tempting when splashing G.
Never really gave that much thought to the downside of Thoughtseize in Limited (the fact that you better take something that's worth the trade), I simply loved that information aspect of it... which also makes me love Disciple of Phenax, but that is also a body on top of the discard effect.
I've got some pretty good ideas from the thread, I think I'm gonna try a couple of these builds, guys. Thanks a bunch.
Cool feedback! Got a couple of questions though...
1) Would you run 18 lands in the WB build? I get that 18 is usually correct for Theros Limited, but I don't have that many big drops / monstrosity effects (maybe just a couple of expensive Bestows)...
2) Is Thoughtseize really THAT bad in Limited?
Yo, limited guys! Long time reader, fir... second time poster here. In the spirit of becoming a better limited player I've been doing more sealed/draft events recently... and today I decided to post a pool to see what you guys thing about it (and of my build).
I think it was clear that BW was the strong side of the pool. What I usually struggle with is deciding when to splash. Would it have been worth splashing blue here? Also... I didn't end up playing this anywhere, it was more of an building exercise with a buddy.
Long time reader, first time poster yada yada yada.
Been thinking of playing monogreen post-rotation for a while, I'm loving Theros so far and maybe the one thing I love the most is this empowerment of monocolored decks.
Have you thought of adding Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx to the Mana Resources section, I seriously think having one wouldn't hurt considering you want to run at least some stuff you can sink that excess mana into. Also... no love for Garruk?
@Eidolon:
Thanks for the detailed analysis. Now, I just came back to playing limited recently and I'm curious as to why you rate the bouncelands as better options over the filters for the control heavy pairs (UW, UB, UR). Are they just plain better most of the time?
Thanks again
Now, since I've set something resembling a budget for it and every 360 cube seems to provide an average of 30 dual lands to support itself I've been thinking how should I go about these 30 lands.
I currently have (or I'm very close to completing) a full set of Shocklands, Painlands and M10/Innistrad Checklands. Would you guys consider these to be reasonable budget lands to support the cube if I can't get ABU lands nor fetches? Also... if in the future I could get a full set of fetches, which duals should I replace? The checklands or the painlands?
Thanks much
Here's what I'm running SB:
2 Duress
3 Sin Collector
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Pithing Needle
2 Vizkopa Guildmage
2 Wear/Tear
Most if it is for the control match up as you can see. I side Vizkopa at times for the hilarity of semi-double/triple strike with its second ability.
Most of my desire to go into other colors is fixing that dreaded turn 2 when you have no Hoplite/Thoughtseize in your opening hand. I think someone already said this in the other thread, but one downfall of BW Heroes is that you want to end up building monoThreeDrop.dec... all the good stuff is cmc 3 (Lifebane, Hero's Downfall, Underworld Connections, Fabled Hero, Agent, Fiendslayer, etc).
I've been running something very much like this in the past weeks, making a bunch of changes that haven't always been for the best.
4x Agent of the Fates
2x Fabled Hero
4x Favored Hoplite
3x Fiendslayer Paladin
2x Heliod, God of the Sun
3x Hopeful Eidolon
4x Ethereal Armor
4x Gift of Orzhova
4x Thoughtseize
4x Gods Willing
4x Orzhov Charm
4x Godless Shrine
9x Plains
5x Swamp
4x Temple of Silence
Got a couple of questions for you though...
a) Have you tested Heliod vs Underworld Connections? Haven't really had time to test UC, but Heliod has proven not too shabby for me in those games that stretch.
b) How's Nighthowler working for you? Don't you find it a "win more" card?
c) Have you tried splashing other colors? I haven't really tried because it demands more time than I can currently put in, but the prospect of having access to Lotleth Troll, Golgari Charm/Selesnya Charm and possibly Warriors' Lesson looks tempting when splashing G.
1x Heliod's Emissary
1x Heliod, God of the Sun
1x Wingsteed Rider
1x Lagonna-Band Elder
1x Traveling Philosopher
1x Phalanx Leader
2x Leonin Snarecaster
1x Cavalry Pegasus
2x Vaporkin
1x Shipbreaker Kraken
1x Triton Fortune Hunter
1x Ordeal of Thassa
1x Voyage's End
1x Griptide
1x Gods Willing
1x Chosen by Heliod
1x Divine Verdict
1x Aqueous Form
1x Akroan Horse
What this is lacking though is maybe some more heroic enablers for your dudes. Maybe splash R for those Coordinated Assaults and Lightning Strike?
I've got some pretty good ideas from the thread, I think I'm gonna try a couple of these builds, guys. Thanks a bunch.
1) Would you run 18 lands in the WB build? I get that 18 is usually correct for Theros Limited, but I don't have that many big drops / monstrosity effects (maybe just a couple of expensive Bestows)...
2) Is Thoughtseize really THAT bad in Limited?
Would you say adding U is better than having the extra white cards + Spear of Heliod? I think the spear is pretty decent limited removal.
Here's what I got:
1 Spear of Heliod
1 Heliod's Emissary
2 Observant Alseid
1 Hopeful Eidolon
1 God's Willing
1 Scholar of Athreos
1 Chained to the Rocks
1 Yoked Ox
1 Chosen by Heliod
1 Glare of Heresy
2 Ray of Dissolution
1 Cavalry Pegasus
1 Last Breath
1 Battlewise Valor
1 Traveling Philosopher
Black
1 Agent of the Fates
1 Ordeal of Erebos
1 Returned Centaur
1 Cavern Lampad
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Lash of the Whip
1 Scourgemark
1 Sip of Hemlock
1 Thoughtseize
1 Erebos's Emissary
1 Disciple of Phenax
1 Read the Bones
1 Mogis's Marauder
2 Loathsome Catoblepas
1 Felhide Minotaur
1 Messenger's Speed
1 Portent of Betrayal
1 Spearpoint Oread
2 Deathbellow Raider
2 Minotaur Skullcleaver
1 Satyr Rambler
1 Ill-Tempered Cyclops
1 Akroan Crusader
1 Hammer of Purphoros
1 Magma Jet
1 Titan's Strength
1 Borderland Minotaur
1 Demolish
Blue
1 Aqueous Form
2 Mnemonic Wall
1 Fate Foretold
1 Coastline Chimera
1 Stymied Hopes
1 Annul
1 Wavecrash Triton
1 Triton Fortune Hunter
1 Nimbus Naiad
1 Vaporkin
Green
1 Nemesis of Mortals
1 Sedge Scorpion
2 Artisan's Sorrow
1 Vulpine Goliath
1 Shredding Winds
1 Satyr Hedonist
1 Hunt the Hunter
1 Fade into Antiquity
2 Nylea's Presence
1 Bow of Nylea
2 Destructive Revelry
1 Spellheart Chimera
1 Chronicler of Heroes
1 Sentry of the Underworld
1 Shipwreck Singer
Artifact
1 Fleetfeather Sandals
1 Flamecast Wheel
1 Opaline Unicorn
Land
1 Temple of Silence
1 Unknown Shores
... and here's what I ended up building:
1x Agent of the Fates
1x Cavalry Pegasus
1x Cavern Lampad
1x Disciple of Phenax
1x Erebos's Emissary
1x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1x Heliod's Emissary
1x Hopeful Eidolon
1x Mogis's Marauder
2x Observant Alseid
1x Scholar of Athreos
1x Sentry of the Underworld
1x Chosen by Heliod
1x Ordeal of Erebos
1x Scourgemark
1x Spear of Heliod
Instant
1x Battlewise Valor
1x Gods Willing
1x Lash of the Whip
Sorcery
1x Read the Bones
1x Sip of Hemlock
1x Thoughtseize
8x Plains
8x Swamp
1x Temple of Silence
I think it was clear that BW was the strong side of the pool. What I usually struggle with is deciding when to splash. Would it have been worth splashing blue here? Also... I didn't end up playing this anywhere, it was more of an building exercise with a buddy.
Thanks a bunch
Been thinking of playing monogreen post-rotation for a while, I'm loving Theros so far and maybe the one thing I love the most is this empowerment of monocolored decks.
Have you thought of adding Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx to the Mana Resources section, I seriously think having one wouldn't hurt considering you want to run at least some stuff you can sink that excess mana into. Also... no love for Garruk?