The recommendation is to use the grouphug effects conservatively. And use politics liberally.
I have K&T built too. I removed most of the grouphug effects for more control ekements: counterspells and board wipes.
The main wincons are [[Managorger Hydra]] and [[Chasm Skulker]] dudes ([[Ishai]] too) creatures that only work once your opponents get rolling.
It's great beating face with them, and going "YOU allowed this to happen!"
The plan B is [[Psychosis Crawler]] (came with the deck), [[Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind]] and [[Arjun, the shifting flame]] to wheel into damage.
With grouphug, you must accept that you're going to lose more games than you win. BUT you're hopefully having a great time playing with your friends. And as lame as it sounds, that's the real win.
I don't try to downplay my threats, as opposed to divert attention from them. Also with new people I'm typically playing K&T or the like; and am honest with what I think the boardstate is. And I can't lie when I'm I'm winning.
Really grinds my gears when the guy in the lead tries to take five minutes of everyone's time to dissuade a targeted removal spell coming at his board. When that ***** happens, you need to nip that ***** in the bud. "No, there is no way in hell this guy's Plow is going anywhere but your blightsteel. Stop talking, it's resolved."
Hazezon is a good commander regardless. He doesn't give all the colors we'd like (House Atredies seems like a Bant affiliation), but nothing says "Dune" quite like an army of Sand Warriors popping up out of the ground. The Fremen are crafty, hardy, and savage. Hazezon embodies every precious drop of that flavor.
I'm glad you're enjoying the deck build and good on your friends for helping out where they can. Keep it up and have fun!
I'd suggest pairing Thrasios with Tymna. This can let the deck start off low to the ground and continue to draw cards while you spend mana on other things.
Don't forget to add your mana dorks as well! Selvala, Heart of the Wilds is one of the best 3 drop ramp creatures in recent memory and, if you can afford her, Bloom Tender is insane in a 4 color deck.
I kind of cut the list off from enemy factions because it would get too diluted (and really, why would they ever fight together anyway?) So no Feyd, Baron Harkonnen, Emperor Shaddam IV, etc. The deck is literally the heroes fighting the enemy (my opponents are Harkonnens, Imperials, Ix technocrats, Guild agents, etc).
Totally fair, maybe have that be a separate deck something BR or BRW seems fitting for House Harkonnen. I like Tariel as a representation of Baron Harkonnen, if only she were more horizontally endowed. lol Marchesa, particuarly QM fits the archetype of the Shaddam regime, but no particular character comes to mind.
I think if any deck wants to play with a kwisatz haderach you'd want something like Jace, right? I dunno, blue seems like the color to find kwisatz haderach.
Chancellor of the Spires is pet edh card #1. At worst its usually a tutor a la Rune-Scarred Demon when it comes down. Sometimes its a plowshares, wrath, or ramp. And the amount of times you go infinite off of someone elses' Rite of Replication is staggering (15% of the time, or more, this card wins the game on the spot).
Heck, you can pay additional costs like entwine. All a mono blue deck has to do is counter or mill TnN, and for 9 mana, get their own.
I prefer Chancellor over Diluvian Primordial supremely because it keeps the card in the graveyard for repeated abuse.
Bebop: "My man!"
My playgroup isn't THAT huge, so I only ever got this to go off once in the way you describe. My opponent had a Stifle/Trickbind effect in hand, but he was laughing as he let it go off about 40 times before conceding, saying it was the most awesome play he'd ever seen.
Now you've got me debating on whether I should swap out Diluvian in my Niv 1.0 deck or not...
I personally like the scalpel with this sort of effect. Add any sort of self bounce and Chancellor nets your repeated value off your opponent's same card. And again, there are at least half a dozen commonly played cards like Rite of Replication that have Chancellor of the Spires read "win off your opponent's card" for 4UUU
This screams spirit of edh to me haha!
If you're running a mill strategy, or know your meta's graveyards will be full of goodies, maybe have both up and see what you prefer.
Lightning Greaves is an example of a card that needs to die on principle. My decks tend to run stack-based interaction like counterspells and plow, but I can't expect everyone at the table to.
Greaves has the habit of wrecking people without warning once there's something big stuck to it.
I really love Dune and this deck is a sweet representation of it. There are a ton of choices for Chani. Much bae.
Have you thought about vehicles? Skysovereign for the space guild transports? Cultivator's caravan can be a spice miner, And good ol Gurney wouldn't be caught dead without a Smuggler's copter.
There was a Children of dune mini series too, I recall. I'll think about Child of alarm theme deck...mostly so Cabal Patriarch can fit the role of our sublime emperor.
Chancellor of the Spires is pet edh card #1. At worst its usually a tutor a la Rune-Scarred Demon when it comes down. Sometimes its a plowshares, wrath, or ramp. And the amount of times you go infinite off of someone elses' Rite of Replication is staggering (15% of the time, or more, this card wins the game on the spot).
Heck, you can pay additional costs like entwine. All a mono blue deck has to do is counter or mill TnN, and for 9 mana, get their own.
I prefer Chancellor over Diluvian Primordial supremely because it keeps the card in the graveyard for repeated abuse.
This happened AER pre-release event Eve, hadn't played this meta.
Game 1: Playing NO vs Newzuri, K&T, Jhoira
Win, with Armageddon + Titania. I have power to end the game in two turns... and I 'apologize' and switch decks. (I decided to go with my best deck first to gauge the groups power/ethos). The kids are understandably a little salty, but surprisingly no one had a real problem.
Game 2: Playing K&T vs Zurgo, K&T, Atraxa
I ask the group, same kids, if it's okay to partner my commander with Nephilim, they accept if they can also have a partner... Zurgo's partner is Silverblade paladin, Atraxa has Thrumming bird (this comes back to bite us) Other K&T picks Blazing Archon. Noice.
Ended up being a 2 hour game, and incredibly fun. Against the same kids: Atraxa's dad comes in to pick him up, but asks his kid if he's about to win, I had told him that $ for C-Rift would help his son win a lot quicker (earlier I had estimated the game would take another 10-15 minutes, Lmao I was wrong__45 minutes later). Initially, I had allied with Atraxa against Zurgo, but when some of his walkers git close to Ult I switch sides. I have Jace out and have Zurgo draw Extra cards for a couple turns (help) but between dovin's static Orb and Hope-Liliana emblem we eventually succumb to the unholy horde. At one point I play my partner (nephilim) and Plow the entire board. I do note at one point I could E-wit Hallowed Burial to reset the board but look at the Atraxa kids' parents and go "but I'm not going to do that". At another point I have to RoRwK a zombie token just to stay alive, and even though its not profitable to attack Atraxa at this point, I keep sending everything I can his way (one thing I don't want to make a habit with grouphug is Kingmaker).
The Zurgo said that game was the most fun he's had with EDH (this remark honestly made my entire week), the other K&T asks me to look through my list for some ideas, and Atraxa and his parents finally make their exit, but everyone is happy.
Game 3: K&T vs Toshiro, New Teysa.
There was a group of 6 about to start a new game when I walked up and they decided to split pods. The guys I'm playing are LGS employees, I ask what sort of game we're playing...just here to have fun. Awesome! Key & Peele it is! Toshi player explains this is his most control-ly deck. I tell him I ran Toshi in my Atheros "Knights of the living dead" Knight tribal from way back in the day. Turn 4 I cast Tempt with discovery, Toshi already had his coffers/Urborg and turns the offer down, Teysa didn't need the land, but wanted me to play the Kings asap. Let's go for some fun: fetch Grove and Forbidden Orchard and I already had Mikokoro out...
The next few turns sees spirits fluttering about, a lot eot group draw and ramp and the occasional 1 point life gain just for *****s. Toshi and Teysa duking it out, in fact seeing Toshi in action was SUPER impressive: chaining kill spells and other shenanigans. On turn 7 or 8 Teysa has Deathrender equipped, and chains Nox Gearhulk, Elesh Norn, Erebos as Toshi kills them all.
Haha, anyway, for a grouphug deck, I drew a surprising amount of control spells including 2/3 counterspells, and plow; so as much chaos as I help start I take responsibility to finish. But once Toshi started to get low on cards and with a w/b sorin applying some hard-to-answer pressure I decide to help Toshi fend off Teysa.
Keep in mind, guys and gals, I'm not trying to fly under the radar, I let everyone know off the bat that, I may be grouphug, but I've got my answers and wincons too. Before my turn 10 I chord of calling looking for value and my eyes fall on Body Double..."contents of graveyards?" I ask "Sheoldred is the answer I'm looking for, thanks Toshi." I untap, reanimate Wurmcoil engine, land a Psychosis Crawler and recast Key and Peele with mana from Regal Behemoth; Sheoldred staxes both opponents and the turn comes back to me with my board state unmolested. I RoRwK my Psychosis crawler, cast Arjun the shifting Flame, cast Oath of Lieges (kills Toshi) wheel into something else and kill Teysa. "GROUPHUG WINS!" I shout in super smash bros announcer voice, they all crack up and we move to the next game.
Game 4: NO vs Atraxa (Bob), Kambhal (Teysa switched) and Breya (Toshi switched).
Current mood: Picture it I haven't really had a chance to play Magic in a month and a half. I've been teaching 3 of my close friends it, but since I only have some Edh decks and a casual modern deck its not the easiest format for a new player to learn the game with LOL. Basically, my night couldn't get much better, I came to this LGS tonight to play against someone I haven't taught, hoping to see some crazy plays, make some strangers laugh, and hopefully get a win with Key and Peele. Having accomplished all that I was going to test some of my other decks to see the direction I wanted to take them...but then Toshi says he's bringing out his competitive combo Breya deck.
Oh boy oh boy. Tymnios and I have been waiting for this opportunity. I've never played against competitive Breya, but I kind of assumed it would kill us off before turn 5. Also, this is a different Atraxa guy, no kids in this pod.
Turn 1 sees lands.
Turn 2 sees lands, Dimir signet from Breya and I cast Thrasios.
Turn 3 has an evolve dork for Atraxa, Kambhal's commander and Breya vomits Sol ring > semblance anvil imprinted metamorph > master transmuter. I drop Tymna swing at a willing Kambhal hoping to find a blue source for the mana drain with breyas name on it...nothing, pass.
Turn 4 gets ramp and a +1 cntr dude for Atraxa, Kambhal misses a land and Breya, thankfully, is off of red. I swing Tymna at Breya and Thrasios again at a willing Kambhal, draw 2, drop thought vessel and the fetch I drew, pass.
Turn 5 Atraxa casts herself, Kambhal misses a land drop, Breya casts herself and mana drain only puts her into the graveyard, but we bought a turn. I untap, draw cryptic command, and try to resolve Bane of Progress. Master Transmuter returns the semblance anvil, but Pro-bane enters as an 8/8 and Breya now has 2 mana.
Turn 6: Atraxa attacks me because I've been going after Breya since turn 0 and I guess that's not very nice in his book. Kambhal doesn't hit new mana which is a shame since he was a funny guy and had a great looking list, Breya gets anvil out again, I green sun zenith x=5 for seedborn muse, swing out at Breya for 13 and proceed to untap and draw with Thrasios over my opponents turns. Breya goes for a reanimate which I dismiss with the command. Atraxa is now gunning for me with everything he thinks can get through, I anguished unmaking the angel horror (delicious flavor) shrug off the rest, murder Breya on my turn 7, C-Rift eot on Kambhal, swing out at Atraxa, Temporal Manipulation to finish the job and Kambhal gracefully bows out of the game.
Breya shows the table his hand: altar + deathmantle, if I hadn't had the answers, we'd have died on schedule.
The conclusion of our game was perfect timing, the AER pre-release event was just about to start.
Thanks to everyone reading and playing edh. Keep on
Wow, I just wrote a book on this reply and my browser crashed. #irritating
Anyway. I prefer NO over Pattern in my signature deck since mystical tutor has more targets versus enlightened would. Just because NO just cycles green creatures doesn't mean you can't find multicolored dudes as well.
Check it out. It used to be sultai colors, but now it's 4 color Green. With a god hand I can OHK someone on turn 4.
Every deck should have some vindicate effect, even an all-in Breya combo or whatever needs to answer pithing needle. There are also now a good sampling in colorless in most player's budget, there's no reason not to run interaction pieces:
All is dust
Bane of Bala Ged
Scour from existence
Universal solvent
Unstable obelisk
Perilous vault
Breaker of armies
Pathrazer of Ulamog
Endbringer + Gorgon's flail
There's colorless ways to counter spells, too.
What 1 card would you choose (let's say you had all 5 colors to work with) if you only wanted to dedicate 1 card slot to being a "win condition" in your deck?
There's a 5 cost hellion (iirc) that adds 1 damage to your red spells. Haven't played with it, but it's worth a look.
I have K&T built too. I removed most of the grouphug effects for more control ekements: counterspells and board wipes.
The main wincons are [[Managorger Hydra]] and [[Chasm Skulker]] dudes ([[Ishai]] too) creatures that only work once your opponents get rolling.
It's great beating face with them, and going "YOU allowed this to happen!"
The plan B is [[Psychosis Crawler]] (came with the deck), [[Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind]] and [[Arjun, the shifting flame]] to wheel into damage.
With grouphug, you must accept that you're going to lose more games than you win. BUT you're hopefully having a great time playing with your friends. And as lame as it sounds, that's the real win.
Really grinds my gears when the guy in the lead tries to take five minutes of everyone's time to dissuade a targeted removal spell coming at his board. When that ***** happens, you need to nip that ***** in the bud. "No, there is no way in hell this guy's Plow is going anywhere but your blightsteel. Stop talking, it's resolved."
I'm glad you're enjoying the deck build and good on your friends for helping out where they can. Keep it up and have fun!
Having BW gives you tutors, control and recursion, access to Havengul Lich and Stoneforge Mystic. Then you have Magus of the Will, Qasali Pridemage, and a whole slew of other sweet stuff.
Don't forget to add your mana dorks as well! Selvala, Heart of the Wilds is one of the best 3 drop ramp creatures in recent memory and, if you can afford her, Bloom Tender is insane in a 4 color deck.
Totally fair, maybe have that be a separate deck
I think if any deck wants to play with a kwisatz haderach you'd want something like Jace, right? I dunno, blue seems like the color to find kwisatz haderach.
I personally like the scalpel with this sort of effect. Add any sort of self bounce and Chancellor nets your repeated value off your opponent's same card. And again, there are at least half a dozen commonly played cards like Rite of Replication that have Chancellor of the Spires read "win off your opponent's card" for 4UUU
This screams spirit of edh to me haha!
If you're running a mill strategy, or know your meta's graveyards will be full of goodies, maybe have both up and see what you prefer.
Of late I've been playing K&T GWUR and there's something about the deck's wacky color combination that makes me very happy.
Greaves has the habit of wrecking people without warning once there's something big stuck to it.
Have you thought about vehicles? Skysovereign for the space guild transports? Cultivator's caravan can be a spice miner, And good ol Gurney wouldn't be caught dead without a Smuggler's copter.
There was a Children of dune mini series too, I recall. I'll think about Child of alarm theme deck...mostly so Cabal Patriarch can fit the role of our sublime emperor.
Heck, you can pay additional costs like entwine. All a mono blue deck has to do is counter or mill TnN, and for 9 mana, get their own.
I prefer Chancellor over Diluvian Primordial supremely because it keeps the card in the graveyard for repeated abuse.
Game 1: Playing NO vs Newzuri, K&T, Jhoira
Win, with Armageddon + Titania. I have power to end the game in two turns... and I 'apologize' and switch decks. (I decided to go with my best deck first to gauge the groups power/ethos). The kids are understandably a little salty, but surprisingly no one had a real problem.
Game 2: Playing K&T vs Zurgo, K&T, Atraxa
I ask the group, same kids, if it's okay to partner my commander with Nephilim, they accept if they can also have a partner... Zurgo's partner is Silverblade paladin, Atraxa has Thrumming bird (this comes back to bite us) Other K&T picks Blazing Archon. Noice.
Ended up being a 2 hour game, and incredibly fun. Against the same kids: Atraxa's dad comes in to pick him up, but asks his kid if he's about to win, I had told him that $ for C-Rift would help his son win a lot quicker (earlier I had estimated the game would take another 10-15 minutes, Lmao I was wrong__45 minutes later). Initially, I had allied with Atraxa against Zurgo, but when some of his walkers git close to Ult I switch sides. I have Jace out and have Zurgo draw Extra cards for a couple turns (help) but between dovin's static Orb and Hope-Liliana emblem we eventually succumb to the unholy horde. At one point I play my partner (nephilim) and Plow the entire board. I do note at one point I could E-wit Hallowed Burial to reset the board but look at the Atraxa kids' parents and go "but I'm not going to do that". At another point I have to RoRwK a zombie token just to stay alive, and even though its not profitable to attack Atraxa at this point, I keep sending everything I can his way (one thing I don't want to make a habit with grouphug is Kingmaker).
The Zurgo said that game was the most fun he's had with EDH (this remark honestly made my entire week), the other K&T asks me to look through my list for some ideas, and Atraxa and his parents finally make their exit, but everyone is happy.
Game 3: K&T vs Toshiro, New Teysa.
There was a group of 6 about to start a new game when I walked up and they decided to split pods. The guys I'm playing are LGS employees, I ask what sort of game we're playing...just here to have fun. Awesome! Key & Peele it is! Toshi player explains this is his most control-ly deck. I tell him I ran Toshi in my Atheros "Knights of the living dead" Knight tribal from way back in the day. Turn 4 I cast Tempt with discovery, Toshi already had his coffers/Urborg and turns the offer down, Teysa didn't need the land, but wanted me to play the Kings asap. Let's go for some fun: fetch Grove and Forbidden Orchard and I already had Mikokoro out...
The next few turns sees spirits fluttering about, a lot eot group draw and ramp and the occasional 1 point life gain just for *****s. Toshi and Teysa duking it out, in fact seeing Toshi in action was SUPER impressive: chaining kill spells and other shenanigans. On turn 7 or 8 Teysa has Deathrender equipped, and chains Nox Gearhulk, Elesh Norn, Erebos as Toshi kills them all.
Haha, anyway, for a grouphug deck, I drew a surprising amount of control spells including 2/3 counterspells, and plow; so as much chaos as I help start I take responsibility to finish. But once Toshi started to get low on cards and with a w/b sorin applying some hard-to-answer pressure I decide to help Toshi fend off Teysa.
Keep in mind, guys and gals, I'm not trying to fly under the radar, I let everyone know off the bat that, I may be grouphug, but I've got my answers and wincons too. Before my turn 10 I chord of calling looking for value and my eyes fall on Body Double..."contents of graveyards?" I ask "Sheoldred is the answer I'm looking for, thanks Toshi." I untap, reanimate Wurmcoil engine, land a Psychosis Crawler and recast Key and Peele with mana from Regal Behemoth; Sheoldred staxes both opponents and the turn comes back to me with my board state unmolested. I RoRwK my Psychosis crawler, cast Arjun the shifting Flame, cast Oath of Lieges (kills Toshi) wheel into something else and kill Teysa. "GROUPHUG WINS!" I shout in super smash bros announcer voice, they all crack up and we move to the next game.
Game 4: NO vs Atraxa (Bob), Kambhal (Teysa switched) and Breya (Toshi switched).
Current mood: Picture it I haven't really had a chance to play Magic in a month and a half. I've been teaching 3 of my close friends it, but since I only have some Edh decks and a casual modern deck its not the easiest format for a new player to learn the game with LOL. Basically, my night couldn't get much better, I came to this LGS tonight to play against someone I haven't taught, hoping to see some crazy plays, make some strangers laugh, and hopefully get a win with Key and Peele. Having accomplished all that I was going to test some of my other decks to see the direction I wanted to take them...but then Toshi says he's bringing out his competitive combo Breya deck.
Oh boy oh boy. Tymnios and I have been waiting for this opportunity. I've never played against competitive Breya, but I kind of assumed it would kill us off before turn 5. Also, this is a different Atraxa guy, no kids in this pod.
Turn 1 sees lands.
Turn 2 sees lands, Dimir signet from Breya and I cast Thrasios.
Turn 3 has an evolve dork for Atraxa, Kambhal's commander and Breya vomits Sol ring > semblance anvil imprinted metamorph > master transmuter. I drop Tymna swing at a willing Kambhal hoping to find a blue source for the mana drain with breyas name on it...nothing, pass.
Turn 4 gets ramp and a +1 cntr dude for Atraxa, Kambhal misses a land and Breya, thankfully, is off of red. I swing Tymna at Breya and Thrasios again at a willing Kambhal, draw 2, drop thought vessel and the fetch I drew, pass.
Turn 5 Atraxa casts herself, Kambhal misses a land drop, Breya casts herself and mana drain only puts her into the graveyard, but we bought a turn. I untap, draw cryptic command, and try to resolve Bane of Progress. Master Transmuter returns the semblance anvil, but Pro-bane enters as an 8/8 and Breya now has 2 mana.
Turn 6: Atraxa attacks me because I've been going after Breya since turn 0 and I guess that's not very nice in his book. Kambhal doesn't hit new mana which is a shame since he was a funny guy and had a great looking list, Breya gets anvil out again, I green sun zenith x=5 for seedborn muse, swing out at Breya for 13 and proceed to untap and draw with Thrasios over my opponents turns. Breya goes for a reanimate which I dismiss with the command. Atraxa is now gunning for me with everything he thinks can get through, I anguished unmaking the angel horror (delicious flavor) shrug off the rest, murder Breya on my turn 7, C-Rift eot on Kambhal, swing out at Atraxa, Temporal Manipulation to finish the job and Kambhal gracefully bows out of the game.
Breya shows the table his hand: altar + deathmantle, if I hadn't had the answers, we'd have died on schedule.
The conclusion of our game was perfect timing, the AER pre-release event was just about to start.
Thanks to everyone reading and playing edh. Keep on
Anyway. I prefer NO over Pattern in my signature deck since mystical tutor has more targets versus enlightened would. Just because NO just cycles green creatures doesn't mean you can't find multicolored dudes as well.
Check it out. It used to be sultai colors, but now it's 4 color Green. With a god hand I can OHK someone on turn 4.
All is dust
Bane of Bala Ged
Scour from existence
Universal solvent
Unstable obelisk
Perilous vault
Breaker of armies
Pathrazer of Ulamog
Endbringer + Gorgon's flail
There's colorless ways to counter spells, too.
If I was doing something super janky like indestructible-pillowfort.deck I think Vicious Shadows does a fine enough job at killing everyone. Forbidden Orchard to force creature creation, Night of Souls' Betrayal + buffed Dross Scorpion + Liquimetal Coating on the land for super durdle infinite win.