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  • posted a message on Magic Story Discussion: Magic Origins and Battle for Zendikar Block
    What frustrates me the most here is that honestly we barely discuss URs anymore. The UR comes out, it is purely a filler, everyone knows that and points it out and then we have to talk about other things (such as how Nissa compares with Garruk, which is not that far off from the UR). But suddenly there was a discussion about if Tarkir is better or worse, and it was incentivized even though is completely off-topic.

    I bet if we had good URs then there wouldn't be that much derailing in the discussions, because we would have much more to talk about it. Of course, I don't think that justifies the rising animosity, but people in discussions with strong opinions (almost everyone one that is here) tend to get things a little heated once in a while.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Magic Story Discussion: Magic Origins and Battle for Zendikar Block
    Quote from Gutterstorm »
    Quote from Ashiok »
    //


    Slow down there partner. Green isn't just "nature herpdeederp." Green is about harmony, wisdom, knowing ones place within the greater scheme of things, destiny. Nissa isn't wrong she just embodies different aspects of Green. Like I said I like Garruk and Sarkhan(even though he's not mono Green) more as representatives of Greenbut Nissa isn't wrong. Which may be part of the reason they retconned her. Racism(or specism) isn't really a Green trait. It's more white. I mean yeah they could have handled it better.

    Although I guess racism IS an Elven trait across almost every fantasy world I know of. Shrugs


    I wasn't talking about what the color green represents to magic the gathering the game. I was talking about Nature and how Nissa is wrong about it. Maybe you can justify that in a fantasy world where you can make 'souls' for the planes Nature would work in a different way, but I'm taking a grounded approach based on how it works in our world. Nissa is wrong about Nature, or at least the way they represent her shows me that she is wrong.

    EDIT: I will edit this here because I'm sure it can cause some confusion. What I said about green is that Garruk is a better impersonation of green to me. What I said about Nissa is that she is wrong in the way she thinks about Nature. Garruk to me incorporates all the traits that you mentioned. He had wisdow to deal with nature and its beasts, he was in 'harmony' with it (I don't like this term very much), and he definetly knew his place: at the top of the food chain.

    EDIT2: I saw now that on my second paragraph I said "Nissa does not get green at all". I stand for this point of view, but honestly what I mean there was Nature as a whole, the physical world, not the psychological aspect of green of Wisdow, Nurturing, Destiny etc. The literal physical part of it, but now it is already typed as green and I will leave it be.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Magic Story Discussion: Magic Origins and Battle for Zendikar Block
    Before going into Nissa's story, I want to point out that it is a misconception that animals will kill only to feed themselves. Animals will kill to protect their territory, animals will kill to assert their position in a hierarchy or to gain a new one, animals will kill to train their cubs, and so on and so forth. In the case of lions, they don't kill cubs out of cruelty (honestly, what is even 'cruelty' for an animal? It is just nonsense to talk like that). It is believed that they kill cubs from other males to ensure the propagation of their genes. How this behavior was selectively adapted I don't know.

    I don't recall hearing of animals that 'kill for sport', specially because I don't know what that would mean to an animal. I'm a biologist, but zoology is not my field of expertise, though I wouldn't mind references if people are talking about that.

    All that said, I will also add that Garruk is not only a better green character to me, he is a better impersonation of green himself. One quote of him that has marked me is something in the line of: "People think that I am a monster. They are wrong. I am a thousand of them". That just sums up how much more interesting he is to me - a natural predator, a man who has lived among nature and adopted it, learned all from its creatures and acquired his own strengh. Meanwhile Nissa was an elf supremacist retconned to be a nature lover, but I just can't buy this whole 'everything is connected' BS. Because, truly, nothing really is. Nature isn't about everything being 'connected' (whatever that is suppose to be), Nature exists in a dynamic equilibrium that is constantly being thrown of balance due to natural disasters, invasive species, weather changes (in the short term) and geographical changes (generally in the long term). Nature is not 'looking' for balance, equilibrium, or connection. Everything that lives is trying to spread their genes, and if that happens at the cost of everything else they will not give a damn, period. Just look at an algal bloom for instance. The algae will spread, suck up all the oxygen, release toxins in the waters and block the sunlight from everything else, but it does not matter to it, it is just doing its thing.

    Of course that we have exceptions from symbiotic relationships or other positive interactions between different organisms, and mostly species in their natural habitat are already in the constant dynamic equilibrium that I mentioned, that is why they are not seen as 'harmful'. Now you introduce a species from somewhere else and see what happens. Nissa is not only bad because she is a different aspect of green, but because she does not get green AT ALL. I will concede that this is probably not 'her' fault, but from the common misconception spread throughout layman that influenced her creation. I would say that, instead of 'connected', in nature everything is 'dependant' on each other, in the sense that when you affect one part of it, there is a ripple effect that spreads throughout its many levels. Of course, you could use 'connection' to explain that, but people usually read connection as something positive, like every living organism is integrated to its habitat in a perfect and harmonious way (when it comes to nature, that is how it is read). Nissa is wrong, Garruk was right. He is better and more interesting to me.

    About the story as a whole, two lines about it: it didn't read bad, it was just bland. I didn't mind reading it, it wasn't particularly boring per se (at least this time), but nothing happened again. That was a non-story if such a thing exists, and I don't know why we are still following Nissa at this point.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Maybe this set does suck, and maybe that's okay.
    Quote from pierrebai »
    First I don't find Paulo's article convincing. His concerns about the mcahnics could be said of every set, ever. Every set has a giant growth + set mechanic, shock + set mechanic, naturalize + set mechanic. I don't see how awaken and devoid are different from split second, populate or what have you. Plus, saying that ingest and processor do not connect with other blocks... O RLY? They don't connect with delve? they don't connect with o-ring effects?

    The big problem with return set is that they get compared to the *whole block* they return to. People are not compare BfZ to Zendikar. They are comparing to Zendikar + Worldwake + Rise of the Eldrazi. (Or KTK + FRF + DTK.) Hardly fair. Sure, BfZ has easily 3 times fewer playables... because it's only one set, not three.

    As for the current set, there's plenty of card at every level of desirability. People saying there are one a handful of good cards are not honest. Between the lands, PW, and at least a dozen rares, there's plenty of good cards. I'll give my list of cards I'm interested in instead of past set ratings. Seems more relevant:



    I don't know what was your criteria to make up this list of yours, but as a magic player I can only agree with:

    - The Battle Lands (not tango lands, not super-check lands, not laglands. Battle lands is the only thing that works for me). They are good, but I'm not excited by them and I would not be suprised to see that they will be forgotten once they rotate out.
    - The manlands
    - Ruinous Path
    - Bring to Light
    - Brutal Expulsion
    - Radiant Flames
    - Painful Truths
    - Gideon
    - Ulamog
    - Ob nixilis
    - Drana

    The rest of the cards you mentioned are almost all of them unplayable or just really not good cards that will have to see play because there is nothing else to do their job (scatter to the winds will have to fill the role of dissolve in control decks). So, as you can see, the list is much shorter than you make it look like. I may be wrong, of course, maybe greenwarden of murasa will be good enough since it is double recursion, but in general I think it will be reduced to the few cards I listed.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on Things more interesting than Devoid and Ingest
    Why would I bother reading anything you write? I have no respect for you or your opinion.


    Give me a good reason to not report you for flaming, please. You were rude and aggressive in this conversation from the very start, your use of sarcasm and now just outright insults is just a proof that you have nothing relevant to add and can only use ad hominem as your strategy for debate. I will give you at least one post to apologize before reporting you.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on Things more interesting than Devoid and Ingest
    Quote from Ashiok »
    Quote from Ashiok »
    I actually don't mind devoid at all. If anything, it could be strong outside standard because it would make protection and other effects that care about colors fail against it. But honestly, when you have a devoid overcosted card that is just terrible in general (like most of devoid spells and some of the devoid creatures), then you lost me.

    Ingest, on the other hand, is plain terrible. Just such a slow mechanic that basically only works inside the block it was constructed to work (splice into arcane anyone?). I hate mechanincs that are only relevant in their blocks, it is a waste of design space.
    So I'm guessing you have a time machine and have seen the upcoming blocks and know for a fact that nothing in the future will interact with it and it will only ever have any use in this set/block. I'm so jealous...


    Two things mate:

    - It makes absolutely no sense to analyze cards and mechanics thinking that they 'might be good in the future'. Nobody knows what is coming, that doesn't stop anyone from saying that a mechanic is terrible when it is, otherwise we would never be able to discuss a card.

    - Newsflash: ingest will still be bad even if they print the most support for it. Wanna know why? Because it is too friggring slow! Exiling ONE card at a time is horrendous. Ashiok alone does the job of three ingest creatures attacking and connecting, shame Ashiok is rotating out. By the point the sheer number of exile cards become relevant, your ingest creatures probably killed your opponent already. The mechanic sucks, if you don't see that, I'm sorry.
    It may suck as a way to mill out an opponent, but that isn't its core function. It is an enabler for other cards. If you think Ingest is supposed to be used only as a means of winning through mill, you really don't have much imagination.


    If you would just have the trouble of scrolling up a couple posts before answering me, you would see that someone else said the same thing that you said and I have addressed it. I did not mention Ashiok for milling implications. Please, read before posting.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on Things more interesting than Devoid and Ingest
    Quote from The_Hittite »
    Quote from Ashiok »
    ingest will still be bad even if they print the most support for it. Wanna know why? Because it is too friggring slow! Exiling ONE card at a time is horrendous. Ashiok alone does the job of three ingest creatures attacking and connecting, shame Ashiok is rotating out. By the point the sheer number of exile cards become relevant, your ingest creatures probably killed your opponent already. The mechanic sucks, if you don't see that, I'm sorry.


    Well yeah, if you intend to just mill someone to death it is pretty bad. But if you want to cast a 9/9 for 6 or burn a Siege Rhino in an aggressive deck, then it means you can do that without taking creatures out. Notice that as far as costing is concerned, they didn't treat Ingest as a positive effect. All of the creatures with it are, more or less, on curve. I'm not saying they're great, but they're really not that terrible.


    The point here is: the upside of playing cards with ingest only 'exists' inside this block, which is already bad, and it is not a great upside, which is terrible. Roast is still a better, more reliable way to deal with a rhino, the processors are all bad with the exception of the one that counters and the one that gives -3/-3. For a creature with ingest to be played it will only be played because it is a good creature, not because it has ingest on it, and at this point the mechanic is just a total failure. You can have decent/good creatures with ingest, they just will not be decent/good because of it, and since we are discussing the mechanic and not the creatures, oh well, I hope you see the point now.

    P.S.: what I meant by mentioning Ashiok is that it does a better job of filling the exile for the processors to be used, I wasn't even thinking about milling.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on Things more interesting than Devoid and Ingest
    Quote from Ashiok »
    I actually don't mind devoid at all. If anything, it could be strong outside standard because it would make protection and other effects that care about colors fail against it. But honestly, when you have a devoid overcosted card that is just terrible in general (like most of devoid spells and some of the devoid creatures), then you lost me.

    Ingest, on the other hand, is plain terrible. Just such a slow mechanic that basically only works inside the block it was constructed to work (splice into arcane anyone?). I hate mechanincs that are only relevant in their blocks, it is a waste of design space.
    So I'm guessing you have a time machine and have seen the upcoming blocks and know for a fact that nothing in the future will interact with it and it will only ever have any use in this set/block. I'm so jealous...


    Two things mate:

    - It makes absolutely no sense to analyze cards and mechanics thinking that they 'might be good in the future'. Nobody knows what is coming, that doesn't stop anyone from saying that a mechanic is terrible when it is, otherwise we would never be able to discuss a card.

    - Newsflash: ingest will still be bad even if they print the most support for it. Wanna know why? Because it is too friggring slow! Exiling ONE card at a time is horrendous. Ashiok alone does the job of three ingest creatures attacking and connecting, shame Ashiok is rotating out. By the point the sheer number of exile cards become relevant, your ingest creatures probably killed your opponent already. The mechanic sucks, if you don't see that, I'm sorry.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on Maybe this set does suck, and maybe that's okay.
    Each spoiler season it is the same exact things with the MTGS Community -

    1. "This set doesn't have any cards that are good for my "insert deck" in "insert format", so the whole set sucks."
    2. Massive exaggeration and hyperbole because you're on the internet, just grow some balls and be a mature adult and evaluate sets as objective as possible. Not hard. example of some classic hyperbole that is usually said every set release: "THIS IS THE WORST SET EVER ITS THE NEXT FALLEN EMPIRES"
    3. "This set is good/sucks for "insert format", without even playing a single card from it.
    4. "Insert card" IS OVERPOWERED AND PUSHED! Then complain that you want OP cards when the standard environment has been deliberately under powered to slow the game down. Or - "THIS "insert card" IS GARBAGE I WANT OP CARDS" then you whine when you get cards that are OP and dominate standard and eternal formats then get banned.

    My favorite is how much time WOTC spends to build a set and new challenges and standard environments, just so you entitled kids can crap all over it on the safety of the internet before even playing it. WOTC are not idiots, this set is made the way it is for a reason. The rarity shifts and making some cards inferior are so the card pool presents different challenges. Like for real, do you all want to play Caw-Blade forever or something?

    So basically this *****ing about how this set sucks is the same nauseating crap that has been repeated every single set release, the only thing at this point that is surprising is that a lot of you have not caught on to this.


    Quick set review for me - no cards for any of my EDH decks will be used, limited looks like it will fun and be a choose Eldrazi or Allies kind of thing, there will be constructed playable cards as there always has been, legacy I don't see anything that jumps out but who knows, modern looks like nothing will make an impact other than the new dual lands, and I think it is safe to say Vintage gets nothing here. There, not so hard to evaluate without hyperbole and saying an entire set sucks because it isn't pleasing just you.


    Pro-tip: this is your first post and everything, so try to be nice would you? The original post here was just saying that this set seems to have some issues because it is receiving more backlash than a set usually does, which I agree. Just saying everyone that complains is dumb or thinks the same does not advance any argument here.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on Things more interesting than Devoid and Ingest
    I actually don't mind devoid at all. If anything, it could be strong outside standard because it would make protection and other effects that care about colors fail against it. But honestly, when you have a devoid overcosted card that is just terrible in general (like most of devoid spells and some of the devoid creatures), then you lost me.

    Ingest, on the other hand, is plain terrible. Just such a slow mechanic that basically only works inside the block it was constructed to work (splice into arcane anyone?). I hate mechanincs that are only relevant in their blocks, it is a waste of design space.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on Full spoiler up
    Quote from Yamahako »
    Quote from vandertroll »
    Quote from Yamahako »
    Quote from vandertroll »
    I'm starting to believe that the reason they didn't bump Dispel to uncommon or awaken rare is because of the uselesness and small number of instants in this set.


    There are 31 instants in this set. What would be a "normal" number of instants in a set?



    How many of them are playble?




    All of them... the only magic card that can't be played is Evermind. Don't make other people do your work for you. Why don't you identify which ones you feel aren't playable - in what formats - and why? You stated there were a small number of instants in this set - there aren't. It appears that sorcery and instant spells were played with in this set so that some traditional spells were switched from one type to another (instant ramp spell, instant land destruction, etc.)

    But the instant ramp spell will be played in standard. It's nuts. In limited Dispel will be solid because there are instants you have to stop. In standard Dispel will be useful because there are lots of good instants in Origins and Kahns block. Other formats already have it.


    I don't think anyone would main deck dispel in a limited deck. In any case, no, the instants aren't good. Just for the sake of argument, this 'rampant growth' at instant speed is really really bad at 3CMC. Why would you play that instead of Nissa's Pilgrimage? (I'm talking about constructed here). Sure the ramp spell can help fixing your mana, and it can be used to trigger landfall at instant speed (oh, how relevant!). Nissa's pilgrimage is better. Why? If you are using a ramp deck, you want to get more mana every turn, and pilgrimage is useful for that, guaranteeing the next land drop, mana fixing is a lesser concern (unless you are playing some weird ramp-converge deck). And I'm not even mentioning that pilgrimage has the upside of spell mastery. Oh, but wait, how much play pilgrimage sees now? None. Will that be so in the next set? Maybe not, maybe monogreen eldrazi ramp is a thing, but even a card that is much better than your bad rampant growth has a hard time seeing play in standard.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Full spoiler up
    I will just address points 2 and 3 since point 1 is pure speculation:

    - Twin is a "I win" combo. This combo you are naming is not, is just making a big knight of the reliquary that still dies to removal (and the removal stops the combo at any point, just kill knight is response to its fetch ability). Twin is also a combo that you can do in one turn (end step of your opponent + your main phase). This one you have to have a knight that is not summoning sick + your enchantment. Really, comparing the two combos is terrible.

    - Phantom Nantuko is arguably a much better card than undergrowth champion. Not sure if you noticed but you can kill champion with a bolt in response to its landfall trigger as well, when he has no counters and die you know? Also in modern there are plenty of ways to deal with creatures that are not damage based (just to name 3: abrupt decay, terminate and path).
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Full spoiler up
    Quote from Teysa_Karlov »
    Quote from Darkbrew »
    stoneforge is a tutor. what in this set tutors?

    bring to light one of the few cards that has modern playerd interested. a vanilla 8 10 for 8 isnt suddenly going to become insane unless they stop printing removal... which is possible!


    Statis Snare will upgrade over Oblivion Ring in relevant decks (Soul Sisters, MartyrProc)

    Retreat to Coralheim has combo interactions with Knight of the Reliquary

    Complete Disregard is a solid SB option in Modern, since the exile clause often matters, and it hits Etched Champion and Mirran Crusader.

    I could see a deck in Modern using Drana. Probably not, but definitely possible.

    I think Vampiric Rites could see play as well.

    Radiant Flames is a strong contender in Jund and Grixis.

    Scythe Leopard could see play in Zoo.

    Swell of Growth will see in play in Modern infect, since the land drop allows you to keep pumping.

    I think people are underrating Undergrowth Champion. A beater that grows from playing the game that dodges lightning bolt, and other damage effects?

    All of that isn't counting the stuff for EDH, of which there are around 35 decent cards and 6-7 super solid options.



    Soul sister is not a relevant modern deck, and it is very questionable if the flexibility of o-ring would be surpassed by this new card with flash.

    Yeah, combo interaction in the format running bolt, terminate and abrupt decay you would allow yourself to play retreat to coralhelm in the chance you get to combo, sure sure.

    Strong contender? Anger of the gods, though it is harder to splash, is definetly a better card (just naming two reasons why: voice and kitchen finks).

    Steppe lynx doesn't play zoo, scythe leopard hardly stands any chance.

    Drana is cool, but the only possible shell that she could play is B/W tokens at the moment.

    Complete disregard, swell of growth and undergroth champion are just terrible cards for modern. I will be shocked if swell of growth gets anywhere near infect, the pump is just too small to be worth it when you have things like might of old krosa, become immense and vines of the vastwood.

    Vampiric rites of all the cards you named is the only one that gets me one eyebrown raised and that is about it. The only truly cards for modern so far are the manlands and the new sowing salt against tron. Maybe Blisterpod will see play in the new next level abzan since it is almost strictly better than tukatongue thallid. Honestly man, you are just pushing here.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Magic Story Discussion: Magic Origins and Battle for Zendikar Block
    Quote from Vorthospike »
    Quote from Caranthir »
    Quote from Ashiok »
    Just to give some update with the full spoiler, apparently there are still some Emrakul's drones lingering in Zendikar. Also, we have spoiler of more of Kozilek's drones, and they do look like they're coming from underground. Although if that is any indication that Kozilek is hiding underground or not, no idea. We also have some flavor text spoiling some conversations and scenes, but nothing too big.


    For me, Vestige of Emrakul's biggest "revelation" is the reference to Emrakul as "her". Yes, Emeria/Kamsa was female godess, but I feel that attributing any gender to the Titans is wrong. "it" would be the best pronoun here.


    How much do you want to bet that thousands of people will complain about that but few will even notice that Processor Assault refers to Ulamog as "him"?
    Quote from Caranthir »
    Quote from Ashiok »
    Quote from Caranthir »
    Quote from Ashiok »
    Just to give some update with the full spoiler, apparently there are still some Emrakul's drones lingering in Zendikar. Also, we have spoiler of more of Kozilek's drones, and they do look like they're coming from underground. Although if that is any indication that Kozilek is hiding underground or not, no idea. We also have some flavor text spoiling some conversations and scenes, but nothing too big.


    For me, Vestige of Emrakul's biggest "revelation" is the reference to Emrakul as "her". Yes, Emeria/Kamsa was female godess, but I feel that attributing any gender to the Titans is wrong. "it" would be the best pronoun here.


    It felt really weird for me too! "It" would have been much better, though to be honest we are used to associate "it" with "he", so if someone said "Ulamog and his spawns" nobody would bat an eye, which makes me think there is some prejudice involved to see "her" being used and looking weird.


    My thoughts exactly. And only now I see the irony of discussing this with somebody with username Ashiok Grin


    He, true story mate, true story. Ashiok doesn't give a damn about genders!

    And yes, nobody will notice that on the Ulamog card.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
  • posted a message on Magic Story Discussion: Magic Origins and Battle for Zendikar Block
    Quote from Caranthir »
    Quote from Ashiok »
    Just to give some update with the full spoiler, apparently there are still some Emrakul's drones lingering in Zendikar. Also, we have spoiler of more of Kozilek's drones, and they do look like they're coming from underground. Although if that is any indication that Kozilek is hiding underground or not, no idea. We also have some flavor text spoiling some conversations and scenes, but nothing too big.


    For me, Vestige of Emrakul's biggest "revelation" is the reference to Emrakul as "her". Yes, Emeria/Kamsa was female godess, but I feel that attributing any gender to the Titans is wrong. "it" would be the best pronoun here.


    It felt really weird for me too! "It" would have been much better, though to be honest we are used to associate "it" with "he", so if someone said "Ulamog and his spawns" nobody would bat an eye, which makes me think there is some prejudice involved to see "her" being used and looking weird.
    Posted in: Magic Storyline
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