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  • posted a message on Beating a dead horse: Tutors in commander
    Replace tutors with things like demonic consultation. I don’t usually die from using it, but there’s always the risk.

    I don’t think tutors are all that bad tho. It’s more the aggressive tutoring that makes the game unfun. Consider always tutoring for the combo win, and compare to tutoring for silver bullet answers.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Best combos in rakdos colors?
    lich and repay in kind is one I use to kill people somewhat often. Not amazing though.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Thanks to Cryogen
    ...is there a hidden story behind cryogen and library?
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Banning Criteria discussion: Allow players to win out of nowhere
    Quote from Daemion »
    My EDH Cube has an I-win card for each color in it's pool.

    Finale of Glory
    Expropriate
    Rise of the Dark Realms
    Insurrection
    Genesis Wave

    White is really the worst color for such cards if you ask me. There are of course many other possible candidates. Just think of Exsanguinate and stuff like that.

    The thing that we should not forget: Powerlevel varies tremendously. Some people play with just precon decks, some people play with 3000 Dollar decks. The precon deck will not win just because it plays some banned I-win cards. But in the hands of the 3000 dollar decks, some cards like Paradox Engine become broken.

    So the problem is, the same is true for stuff like Sol Ring. The casual guy can play Sol Ring and nothing horrible happens. The progamer will use it to win out of nowhere turn 4 or so. That's why some cards become problematic.


    I'd agree up to an extent; the real problem i see is when those two players meet to play a game with those specific decks.

    If players are able to meet each other on a vaguely similar 'expectation of the game', then it doesn't really matter. I have a selenia, dark angel, which has an ~$50 budget, which can combo off and win relatively early, like turns 4-6; and a rakdos the defiler deck that's probably worth over a thousand, with badlands, wheel of fortune, and so on, but it's only a balls-to-the-wall-funsies deck that often loses to itself more than it wins. The budget isn't really a problem; it's the difference between what the players bring to the table that creates the problem.

    The 'i win out of nowhere' cards you mentioned, they all have more 'fair' applications. There's the guy who played standard in mirrodin, who's got that green card who just tries to ramp into it, only to land a bunch of lands and some big beaters... but not really game-winning out of nowhere as such. Cards like coalition victory, it literally just wins when it resolves, and there's a tiny window of interaction.

    i'm not really for nor against this as a criteria, but the way how i see it, it's the social bit of the format that players really need to be more aware of to make the format work. No banlist will 'fix' EDH for everyone. We have to accept that. As players who like the game, we gotta take responsibility for ourselves and make it work in our local groups where possible. If you don't have a local group, it becomes even more important for us to chat to other players we play with to make it work.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Death trigger tribal
    I was thinking it was gonna be a torpor orb based deck, so dying triggers still work, but I get to hose all those cones into play ones.

    Cheers keep em comin! The deck is looking kinda funny right now.

    Also, 12/12 for 1 mana is good with torpor orb
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Banning Criteria discussion: Allow players to win out of nowhere
    Sure, I can get behind that. But sol ring being s problem is a mindset that stems from a competitive “I gotta win at all costs” frame.

    Sol ring isn’t nearly as bad when it’s thought more of as a “I’m establishing myself as being the furthest ahead and therefore archenemy”, and sculpting interesting play around that.

    I think that’s where the argument about sol ring starts to break down. Sure it’s a powerful enabler, but it really isn’t format-warping.

    On the other hand, biorhythm and coalition victory can come in and ‘win out of nowhere’. I’m wondering if stuff like mirrodin besieged should also be included on a watchlist for this effect.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Death trigger tribal
    So I’ve decided on a death trigger tribal deck, with lord of tresserhorn as the general, but have been struggling-ish to get a list together that works.

    Aside from the typical cards like messenger drake and thalakos seer, are there cards that I really absolutely need to chuck in here to make the deck work?
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on torpor orb + painter's servant
    So this might be a bit strange to ask, but what sort of ability does painter have then? Is there a collective name for abilities that says “as [condition], [effect]”?
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on torpor orb + painter's servant
    Painter's Servant has no triggered abilities, because no word 'when', 'whenever', or 'at' is used.

    The rules reuse square brackets to generalize pieces of text, but both through description (as the other three pairs in that rule), or through enumeration (as in the first one).


    so that means I'm right, right? i get to name a colour when painter enters play?
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on torpor orb + painter's servant
    situation - painter's servant to be cast, torpor orb in play, other permanents in play irrelevant.

    so bear with me, this feels a bit wrong, so i wanna make sure i got this right. When looking up what a trigger is, i found this:
    603.1. Triggered abilities have a trigger condition and an effect. They are written as “[When/Whenever/At] [trigger condition or event], [effect]. [Instructions (if any).]”


    painter says "As painter..." not "whenever" or "when" or "At", the defined trigger words. So do i choose a colour if i cast a painter with torpor orb in play? since torpor orb only looks at triggers, and not whatever 'as' abilities are?

    My (non-judge) conclusion is that i do, simply because it says "as".
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Spinal embrace timing
    Ok cheers! I guessed as much, but my gut hasn’t been keeping up with the rules post 5th edition!
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Spinal embrace timing
    spinal embrace

    If I cast spinal embrace on an opposing players creature, then sac it to carnage altar, do I also gain life for it?
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Rakdos, Lord of Riots demon tribal
    That looks promising!

    Some of your demons are better spent being better demons. Grinning demon into rakdos the defiler is a good start. Also, remember that guys like it that betrays works well with everyone has to sacrifice stuff (like old-school rakdos!).

    I think like mentioned, you need more reliable lower cmc enablers to land rakdos.

    Oh also, not sure how relevant this would be to your build, but treasonous ogre ALWAYS makes my rakdos deck go into overdrive. My mates always spend their removal on it if they have any, cuz it’s that game warping.

    So just curious, is this a ‘win at any cost’ sorta deck, leaning on the win side or leaning on the ‘fun’ side? If you’re on the fun side, I’d remove some of the better tutors and replace them with some more risky ones like demonic consultation. It’s a card that gets my game group shouting and hollering, especially since they know the end game is coming soon; along with 2/3 of my library!

    Wait a sec - you don’t have hellcarver demon??? Even in a build like yours where you’ve got lower threat density than mine, it’s very good (and extremely rewarding when it works). You can even set it up with a insidious dreams, so you’re more likely to just straight up win. Sometimes you don’t win, but it’s a demon deck, right? You gotta have the feeling of living on the edge to make it really feel like a demon deck!
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on How do people feel about tutors in the signature spell zone.
    Well, i have a narset, parter of veils with transmute artifact as sig spell.

    and the first time i cast transmute artifact, it always goes for teferi's puzzle box. I then end up locking the game down and get the table to concede not too long thereafter.

    It's definitely not fun if you build like that, but it's effective. I basically built the deck, played it once or twice, then took it apart to build other decks. Just ask the other peeps at the table if they think it's fun. whatever the answer, there you go!
    Posted in: Variant Commander
  • posted a message on Commander Philosophy Document Discussion
    @xcric - You're mentioning a bunch of cards that end the game because of it's sheer power. Sure, they end the game. But they're really expensive spells that are answerable by either killing the player beforehand, or the threat itself, or by just coming to an agreement with the other players in your play group as to what an edh game means to you all, and what you expect to get from those games.

    ...and yes, i know 'dies to removal' isn't a valid argument. But this is EDH, not legacy. It's not supposed to be a format catering to the competitive crowd, nor does it try to be a balanced game.

    By ignoring the philosophy of the format, and only focusing on a couple of points about the banlist criteria, there's too much an emphasis on the details of the rules, and not the intent of the rules. The intent is to have a format where every player can play pretend cardboard wizards with each other. And by meeting each other on a happy/acceptable medium, and meeting those expectations, everyone has a good game. that's ALL THERE IS TO EDH.

    I play with griselbrand, karakas and recurring nightmare (probably amongst a bunch of other banned cards) because my playgroup deems them to be completely ok, and we all have the same expectations of the game. So we don't adhere to the specific rules of the game, but we adhere to the principles/philosophy of the format; and that, i feel, is far more important than actually following the rules.

    ...We also allow infinite 0, 1, 2, 7-land hand mulligans. And we have hybrid meaning or, not and colours. And we float between playing 30 and 40 life. Actually, we could be the RC's worst nightmare, and possibly a dream at the same time.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
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