this is where I’m at too. I’m higher on surveil lands than when they were spoiled (by a lot), but not more than triomes.
Triomes are premium mana fixers.
They are incredibly efficient for cube real estate.
For example, orzhov has 3 triomes that can be played to fix for BW vs most other land cycles will only have 1 orzhov land.
if you have say a selesnya or dimir fetchland, youve increased the number of orzhov lands in the cube they can potentially fetch from 2 to 5 with just one cycle of triomes!
Outside of supporting domain, slot compression is definitely a big selling point that isn't often talked about. However, I personally don't see this coming into play until you go beyond 6 lands lots per guild unless you forsake things like Horizon Canopy / manlands / etc.
I could see not wanting to play them to reduce the # of 3-4 color decks that see play (increase the penalty to play those decks), or for variety, but not if you are trying to keep your cube max power.
I think triomes being "more max power" than surveil duals is an extremely silly notion. To quote Economist Thomas Sowell: “There are no solutions, only trade-offs": it's going to be very cube dependent. 4+ color decks have thrived long thrived in my cube before triomes were even a thing. With the combination of mana fixing options getting better in general in combination of pip requirements being lower, I've found the extra mana fixing of triomes to be extraneous more often than not. Having access to a surveil dual can be a huge difference maker between keeping a shakey hand vs a mulligan. Mana fixing becomes very superfluous much faster than card filtering / fueling the graveyard does.
To be clear, I generally do think that triomes >= surveil duals overall, but it's not completely black and white. If someone were to ask me if they should play triomes or surveil duals without any other context, I'd probably say triomes since it's a safer bet. I can see myself going back to triomes in the future when we get more domain / land type matters cards in the future, or if I want to cut my land section a bit but still want my mana fixing to be as consistent as possible. That being said, I do think there's a lot of merit in substituting triomes for surveil duals in a decent amount of cubes that want a 3rd cycle of fetchable lands but don't necessarily need the extra fixing that triomes come with.
We added them and they've been good but I would never cut the triomes. They are just absolutely insane.
Triomes are great, but insane is not an adjective that I'd use to describe them (or any other guild lands besides actual fetchlands). A lot of the worth of triomes to me was just having a 3rd full cycle of lands that are fetchable, which the surveil dual lands also fulfill.
As far as fetches and typed land goes, fetch / dual / shock is the indisputable top 3. After that, triomes / surveil duals are pretty interchangeable for the #4-#5 slots depending on the cube.
They all do really different things, so it's a matter of what you want to prioritize.
- Trinket Mage if you want to string together some specific combos like Time Vault or just ramp extra hard to find your Sol Ring / Black Lotus / etc.
- Chrome Host Seedshark if you want a defensive spells matters creature.
- Aether Channeler if you want a catch all blue midrange creature. It's good for blink / recursion and is one of the better blue creatures at fighting both initiative and reanimator.
- Tishana's Tidebender if you really want to shut down planeswalkers and such I guess. I personally don't see the appeal of Tishana's Tidebender in cube and think it's overrated based on its impact on constructed. Tishana's Tidebinder is the card I like the least of this bunch, and by a wide margin.
Going forward I'm going to test these in the place of triomes.
Swapping out triomes for surveil duals has been pretty positive so far. My playgroup really likes the new play patterns that surveil offers while ever so slightly curbing 4-5 color decks. Surveil 1 helps you keep a lot of hands that you would otherwise mulligan.
A lot of times triomes acted just as a dual land and didn't need the third color. Domain aside, the mana fixing that triomes provided was very extraneous. Triomes are preferred if you support domain, but surveil duals are at least just as good as triomes if you're not supporting domain or just have really heavy mana fixing requirements, IMO.
I'm bringing this up because I'm curious about comparing it to Court of Embereth.
IMO the closest comparison to this card is Court of Locthwain (which I think is very underrated) in the sense that losing the monarch isn't too bad since a Shock is roughly worth a card anyways so you'll be at parity in most scenarios. Although Court of Lochtwain only costing 4 mana and being in the same color as Dark Ritual makes it much better than a lot of other courts.
How have your experiences with the red courts been? Do you favor one over another? And how would you rate the cards?
I made it a point to test all the original courts to make sure we didn't miss out on another Palace Jailer. All of them but Court of Grace were big disappointments. Right now the only two courts I'm currently cubing with are Court of Locthwain and Court of Garenbrig. Court of Grace is still very playable, but it has much more competition with white 4-cmc planeswalkers / Seasoned Dungeoneer / Palace Jailer / etc.
Coming back to this a year and a half later, I consider Mawloc to be the second best goodstuff Gruul card after Minsc & Boo. Scaleable square stats + fight trigger makes this such a versatile 2 for 1 in a lot of scenarios and is good at any point in the game. It's essentially the perfect Flametongue Kavu.
In the past 294 drafts of my cube since the release of NEO, Mawloc is currently tied as the 5th most represented multicolored card overall in my 3-0 archive. Seeing Mawloc right next to Baleful Strix got me thinking that Mawloc is kind of Gruul's Baleful Strix when you really think about it.
Pia isn't good enough for good stuff decks or red agressive decks anymore, but she's still a good card in artifact synergy decks.
Great on defense , good at retaking the monarch and when you have a lot of mana she is a strong finisher.
I cut her a while ago, but it was a cut I wasn't happy to make.
This was pretty much my experience. It's still a good card, but initiative really ate its lunch as an aggro / goodstuff midrange card, and artifacts matters has more toys to play with and leans more towards white for its critical mass of artifacts now. Whirler Rogue's ability being free is huge with Karnstructs.
I swapped PK Nalaar for Breya's Apprentice because I still wanted the thopter critical mass for Retrofitter Foundry. I ultimately decided to settle for Night Scythe as the spiritual successor to those cards since it's a turn 1 play with Workshop and still provides the same critical mass of artifacts.
I dont think this card is at all playable in a higher power cube.
Yeah, 4 mana is the most I'd consider for a Baneslayer Angel today. Even then, it's gotta be on par with something like Sheoldred, the Apocalypse to make the cut.
Lavaspur Boots
1
Artifact- Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+0 and has haste and ward 1.
Equip 1
Pseudo Bonesplitter x Lightning Greaves. I think haste and ward 1 is a fair trade for an extra power compared to Bonesplitter. This gives you some keywords right off the bat and doesn't require you to exile your creature like with Eater of Virtue. I like this more than Bonesplitter / Eater of Virtue overall. In a metagame with monarch / initiative, availability is generally more valuable than 1 extra power. Being fetchable with Urza's Saga / Trinket Mage is also really nice. This seems like a top 3 1-cmc equipment to me alongside Skullclamp and Shadowspear.
This feels like everything that Bloated Contaminator wants to be. This lacks trample and is more vulnerable to burn off the bat, but this offers a lot more flexibility. Seems strong if you're supporting a +1/+1 counters theme. Seems playable, but is a lower priority for me in my book. Sentinel of the Nameless City is eating a lot of this card's lunch.
Can't go wrong with either of them. Personally I like Soul Partition more since it has a cleaner mana cost and can be used on your own stuff if in response to removal or you just really want another ETB trigger. It's important to note that the 2 mana tax doesn't apply if you use it on your own stuff.
I had a discussion with someone at Legacy yesterday where he argues that Brainstorm isn't really playable now in cube given the number of draw punishers and the very limited number of ways to shuffle your library.
- I think the lack of shuffle effects is very over-exaggerated from Legacy being able to play multiple Brainstorms. They don't chain well together without a shuffle effect, but a single Brainstorm without a shuffle effect is still very potent.
- Draw punishers can be removed. Only Hullbreacher / Notion Thief can really catch you off guard and heavily Brainstorm since they have flash. Orcish Bowmasters has flash too, but that at least doesn't prevent you from drawing your cards.
Outside of supporting domain, slot compression is definitely a big selling point that isn't often talked about. However, I personally don't see this coming into play until you go beyond 6 lands lots per guild unless you forsake things like Horizon Canopy / manlands / etc.
I think triomes being "more max power" than surveil duals is an extremely silly notion. To quote Economist Thomas Sowell: “There are no solutions, only trade-offs": it's going to be very cube dependent. 4+ color decks have thrived long thrived in my cube before triomes were even a thing. With the combination of mana fixing options getting better in general in combination of pip requirements being lower, I've found the extra mana fixing of triomes to be extraneous more often than not. Having access to a surveil dual can be a huge difference maker between keeping a shakey hand vs a mulligan. Mana fixing becomes very superfluous much faster than card filtering / fueling the graveyard does.
To be clear, I generally do think that triomes >= surveil duals overall, but it's not completely black and white. If someone were to ask me if they should play triomes or surveil duals without any other context, I'd probably say triomes since it's a safer bet. I can see myself going back to triomes in the future when we get more domain / land type matters cards in the future, or if I want to cut my land section a bit but still want my mana fixing to be as consistent as possible. That being said, I do think there's a lot of merit in substituting triomes for surveil duals in a decent amount of cubes that want a 3rd cycle of fetchable lands but don't necessarily need the extra fixing that triomes come with.
Triomes are great, but insane is not an adjective that I'd use to describe them (or any other guild lands besides actual fetchlands). A lot of the worth of triomes to me was just having a 3rd full cycle of lands that are fetchable, which the surveil dual lands also fulfill.
As far as fetches and typed land goes, fetch / dual / shock is the indisputable top 3. After that, triomes / surveil duals are pretty interchangeable for the #4-#5 slots depending on the cube.
They all do really different things, so it's a matter of what you want to prioritize.
- Trinket Mage if you want to string together some specific combos like Time Vault or just ramp extra hard to find your Sol Ring / Black Lotus / etc.
- Chrome Host Seedshark if you want a defensive spells matters creature.
- Aether Channeler if you want a catch all blue midrange creature. It's good for blink / recursion and is one of the better blue creatures at fighting both initiative and reanimator.
- Tishana's Tidebender if you really want to shut down planeswalkers and such I guess. I personally don't see the appeal of Tishana's Tidebender in cube and think it's overrated based on its impact on constructed. Tishana's Tidebinder is the card I like the least of this bunch, and by a wide margin.
Swapping out triomes for surveil duals has been pretty positive so far. My playgroup really likes the new play patterns that surveil offers while ever so slightly curbing 4-5 color decks. Surveil 1 helps you keep a lot of hands that you would otherwise mulligan.
A lot of times triomes acted just as a dual land and didn't need the third color. Domain aside, the mana fixing that triomes provided was very extraneous. Triomes are preferred if you support domain, but surveil duals are at least just as good as triomes if you're not supporting domain or just have really heavy mana fixing requirements, IMO.
Get Lost > Fateful Absence since it hits more things and your opponent can't crack the maps on your turn and require a creature.
Bonesplitter is the most apt comparison mainly due to the costs, IMO.
IMO the closest comparison to this card is Court of Locthwain (which I think is very underrated) in the sense that losing the monarch isn't too bad since a Shock is roughly worth a card anyways so you'll be at parity in most scenarios. Although Court of Lochtwain only costing 4 mana and being in the same color as Dark Ritual makes it much better than a lot of other courts.
I made it a point to test all the original courts to make sure we didn't miss out on another Palace Jailer. All of them but Court of Grace were big disappointments. Right now the only two courts I'm currently cubing with are Court of Locthwain and Court of Garenbrig. Court of Grace is still very playable, but it has much more competition with white 4-cmc planeswalkers / Seasoned Dungeoneer / Palace Jailer / etc.
In the past 294 drafts of my cube since the release of NEO, Mawloc is currently tied as the 5th most represented multicolored card overall in my 3-0 archive. Seeing Mawloc right next to Baleful Strix got me thinking that Mawloc is kind of Gruul's Baleful Strix when you really think about it.
Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes: 41
Grist, the Hunger Tide: 31
Chaos Defiler: 30
Baleful Strix: 25
Mawloc: 22
Kolaghan's Command: 22
Oko, Thief of Crowns: 21
Ertai Resurrected: 21
Kaito Shizuki: 21
Prismari Command: 21
Fractured Identity: 20
Voice of Resurgence: 20
This was pretty much my experience. It's still a good card, but initiative really ate its lunch as an aggro / goodstuff midrange card, and artifacts matters has more toys to play with and leans more towards white for its critical mass of artifacts now. Whirler Rogue's ability being free is huge with Karnstructs.
I swapped PK Nalaar for Breya's Apprentice because I still wanted the thopter critical mass for Retrofitter Foundry. I ultimately decided to settle for Night Scythe as the spiritual successor to those cards since it's a turn 1 play with Workshop and still provides the same critical mass of artifacts.
Yeah, 4 mana is the most I'd consider for a Baneslayer Angel today. Even then, it's gotta be on par with something like Sheoldred, the Apocalypse to make the cut.
Lavaspur Boots
1
Artifact- Equipment
Equipped creature gets +1/+0 and has haste and ward 1.
Equip 1
Pseudo Bonesplitter x Lightning Greaves. I think haste and ward 1 is a fair trade for an extra power compared to Bonesplitter. This gives you some keywords right off the bat and doesn't require you to exile your creature like with Eater of Virtue. I like this more than Bonesplitter / Eater of Virtue overall. In a metagame with monarch / initiative, availability is generally more valuable than 1 extra power. Being fetchable with Urza's Saga / Trinket Mage is also really nice. This seems like a top 3 1-cmc equipment to me alongside Skullclamp and Shadowspear.
Can't go wrong with either of them. Personally I like Soul Partition more since it has a cleaner mana cost and can be used on your own stuff if in response to removal or you just really want another ETB trigger. It's important to note that the 2 mana tax doesn't apply if you use it on your own stuff.
As far as Brainstone goes, I'd argue it's generally worse than things like Candy Trail / Ransom Note since those have ETB triggers and other effects.
- I think the lack of shuffle effects is very over-exaggerated from Legacy being able to play multiple Brainstorms. They don't chain well together without a shuffle effect, but a single Brainstorm without a shuffle effect is still very potent.
- Draw punishers can be removed. Only Hullbreacher / Notion Thief can really catch you off guard and heavily Brainstorm since they have flash. Orcish Bowmasters has flash too, but that at least doesn't prevent you from drawing your cards.
Brainstorm / Ponder / Preordain are still the top cantrips for U in my book. I'd put Sleight of Hand at #4 though.