I also want to go back a couple of days (weeks?) and correct myself.
when i talked about wolves recruiting, i did not realize this game was about wolves instead of mafia on other forums. theres no reason to suspect they would be different from regular mafia. my bad.
Then in post 111, during the debate between TS and OB (which started because of Tom), he calls OB hostile, and in post 116 he again calls OB hostile, says that TS is "lighthearted and guileless (as I said I read more hostility in Ts's posts than OB's)
I don't like the way TL describes tappingstones posts as "lighthearted and guileless." That's sounds more to me like the way a scum would describe someone they knew was Town (or at least someone not on their team.) Plus the fact I see nothing lighthearted or guileless in the posts either. They are fairly contentless and talking about largely irrelevant things.
Are you ignoring my vote on you and the case I laid out on purpose? I see you also didn't respond to Axelrod when he mentioned the same thing as what I did about your early comment on TappingStones. Why is that?
1). Imba: Is that actually what your role does, or is the gunsmith specifically cops? I may have missed it, but my first impression from the post was the gunsmith detects only mafia, the seer only detects werewolves. The false positive would come into play if you use the "wrong" copshot on the other mafia member. Remind me of your top 3 scum and town lists.
From the Mafiascum wiki:
The Gunsmith is an information role that can target a player at Night to learn if they have a gun in flavor. Members of the Mafia (that are not Doctors), Cops, FBI Agents, Vigilantes, other Gunsmiths, Paranoid Gun Owners, etc. all have guns in traditional flavor. Notably, Serial Killers and Doctors do not have guns.
In games with Werewolves, Seer may simply be another name for Cop, or it may be a Faction Cop who can only detect Werewolves but not Mafia.
6th grade is doing an expirement with boiling food to see how much fat is in it. Place your bets: dounut, hot dog, or slice of American cheese.
I owe my quote wall, I know. Still catching up, but first question that caught me right away is for Sir Chris.
Why can't DoTA's attributes just be because he is a noob? Why does it have to make him noob scum? Why does his disingenuous behavior automatically make him scum, and not just a new town scared to get lynched? Same question, phrased several ways...
What specifically do you find disingenuous about my posts?
Nacho is town. I don't think scum take such bold action considering there are two teams. It's high risk low value play. There's just no way that claim survives until even the mid game, and given history I think Nacho knows that.
GJ suggesting no lynch reminds me of a game I was in. Animal maybe? Again, bold move that draws attention. Wrong move, mind you, but bold. GJ is fine too.
Page 2 I see DoTA is new to mafia, so I'll have him confirmed town or scum by the end of this read through. His unvote of Jobie at the end of RVS pings me, as it seems very self-aware about leaving a useless vote. I don't normally expect such quick unvotes from town who shouldn't really care much about perception.
This is the first time I'm in a game from the start, I thought it was bad form to leave an RVS vote hanging once RVS is over.
Actually I just decided to ISO DoTA because I like to get a beat on newbies. DoTA uses a lot of very forced language. Like, a lot.
Can you please explain what you mean by forced language?
Also he says he has a bad habit of doing something when he changes course, but he is very very new to mafia. He hasn't had time to develop habits.
I can't go into detail about the bad habit comment because that game is still ongoing.
Hmm hmm...
Says he is afraid... seems to complain people aren't asking questions...
I've explained why I said I'm afraid to do anything.
Yeah nothing he has posted comes off genuine.
##vote: DoTArchon
I'll continue reading later, but yeah DoTA is newbie scum who doesn't know what to do with himself.
I guess you're going to be disappointed then when I flip town.
@DoTA - can you provide your top 3 scum suspects and why?
Only have 2 so far:
TappingStones - I don't like how TS attacked Oceansblack for the non-native speaker comment. I didn't read it as a "thinly veiled and tacky insult", this is the Internet and it is possible that there are people in this game who don't speak English as their home language. I also find TS to be more confrontational during that debate than OB, that argument got blown out of proportion very quickly. This links to my next player,
Tomsloger - This comment seemed strange to me
Quote from Tomsloger #90 »
forming reads proactively? now i'm really worried about your power. if you arent forming your reads reactively, what the hell are you doing?
The point Nachos made looked clear to me, be proactive in questioning people and forming reads rather than waiting for other people to ask the questions and reacting to that. Town are supposed to hunt the scum, scum know who is town and who isn't (obviously this game is different for having 2 scum teams) and can therefore play more reactively.
Then in post 111, during the debate between TS and OB (which started because of Tom), he calls OB hostile, and in post 116 he again calls OB hostile, says that TS is "lighthearted and guileless (as I said I read more hostility in Ts's posts than OB's) and refers to the argument as a slap fight )which I take as meaning silly rather than indicative of alignment).
In 154 he votes for Xyre, offering to expand later on why, After asking one seemingly unrelated question (in which he compares Xyre to Necarg, Xyre's top scum read), he unvotes without much explanation.
Same for his vote on iamabusinessman in #181, the vote is placed but there's very little motivation for it (I will admit I did the same when I first voted Tom in post 156, all I said was that he felt off to me after a reread). What I also found odd is that he never questioned that vote, he posted 4 times before I unvoted and moved on to Rodemy.
I also find it annoying that he answers questions directed at other players,
although this probably isn't alignment indicative. For example in 103 he answers Rodemy's question to Wildfire, in 353 he answers my question to iamabusinessman and in 358 he answers Antny's question to Jobie.
Feeling better about my initial vote, Vote: Tomsloger
DOTA #81 Calls out OB on his strange defense. #105 Corretly calls out OB for reading too much into RVS. #107 (very careful)Reads OB as nretral #156 VOTES Tom "Something puts me off", "Gut read" (I DONT LIKE THIS) #303 admits he is too scared to do anything. His words! Town shouldn't be scared.
LEAN SCUM
It's my second game, and my first one of this size. Almost everything I've done so far has made people scum read me. So yes, I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed and uncertain.
Did you miss the part where I said "Consider my vote on DoTArchon"?
I feel the AtE in this post, but something about it bugs me. Kind of like how Wheat tried to explain his bad posts in FF2 Mafia.
AtE?
Bad posts? If the point of the game is to ask questions and cast suspicion, then how are my posts bad if that's what I'm trying to do? Maybe it would be better if I'm lynched. All I seem to be doing is distracting you from finding actual scum. I saw your comment of your vote should be considered to be on me, but why not just vote and get it over with.
The word choice in this post seems strange to me. Ask questions and cast suspicion as opposed to Ask question and determine alignment. The remainder of the post is a continuation of the appeal to emotion.
I used the term because that is what my experience in this game has been so far, a lot of suspicion aimed my way and very few questions.
@iamabusinessman: Right in the beginning of the game, when you were asked why you claimed, you said "because WIFOM". Why is your claim WIFOM? Is making a WIFOM claim something town would do so early in a game?
this point seems familiar
Not trying to make a point, asking because I really don't understand why it could be considered WIFOM. It's a binary choice, either he's lying or he's not. Don't see how it could be circular reasoning.
@iamabusinessman: Right in the beginning of the game, when you were asked why you claimed, you said "because WIFOM". Why is your claim WIFOM? Is making a WIFOM claim something town would do so early in a game?
Also, 1 shot of each sounds to me like a very underpowered role. Even if your target is scum there's a 50% chance you use the wrong ability on them.
@Seppel: Where do you see a scum slip from Antny? I've reread his posts but I'm not seeing anything that jumps out at me.
[quote from="Rodemy »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/645040-mafia-classic-wolves-vs-mafia-day-1-blood-moon?comment=179"] Oh Govnah, what are your thoughts on this wagon?
That last comment seems especially off to me./quote]
What felt off to me was that instead of referring to Nachos directly, he used a phrase that to me seemed very sarcastic. Rodemy even admitted that rereading his post he can see how I thought he was pushing for Nachos to prove the claim.
Did you miss the part where I said "Consider my vote on DoTArchon"?
I feel the AtE in this post, but something about it bugs me. Kind of like how Wheat tried to explain his bad posts in FF2 Mafia.
AtE?
Bad posts? If the point of the game is to ask questions and cast suspicion, then how are my posts bad if that's what I'm trying to do? Maybe it would be better if I'm lynched. All I seem to be doing is distracting you from finding actual scum. I saw your comment of your vote should be considered to be on me, but why not just vote and get it over with.
@AntnyEtR: It was this post of his. When I first read it I got the impression that the bolded, specifically that "m'kay", was him suggesting that we run a wagon up to get Nachos to prove his claim. I have a bad habit of reading too much into small things like that and basing a case on it. Hasn't always worked out for me.
Ugh.. i can see how that sounds like me being for him proving it, but that is not how i wanted it to sound. My actions afterwords (which seem to be confusing you guys) should prove that.
The "mkay" was kind of like my reaction to how it was stated he should prove it.
Think of it this way
Person: We can prove it by running someone up!
Me: mkay? He will have to pardon that person regardless! (of alignment) That just proves he an stop lynches.
I've only been playing for about 2 months, my first game (a basic at Mafiascum) hasn't even finished yet. I'm trying to keep up with everything happening in here but I'm feeling quite lost. I've read a few older completed games but I'm very much not a 'Meta' person. I keep rereading the thread looking for things I can work with but it's a bit overwhelming when the one thing I do go after sets several people (You, Gentleman Johnny and iamabusinessman (whatever his reasons are...)) after me as scum.
That's how I scumhunt. I find what to me looks like inconsistencies and shine a spotlight on them. Right now I'm too afraid to move on anything else because all I've managed to do in this game so far is look like scum. I do find it odd though that not a single person who has called me scum is voting for me. Why is that?
Iso's constant push for massclaims day 1 and 2, I really want to stick it to him and do the polar oppisite of pouring information into the thread, by holding it.
I have a reason to believe the town has a ton of power, due to their being two scum groups. I am also aware of what could happen if it would succeed and who would or wouldn't be targeted. On top of all that, there is a chance that a cross kill or two may happen.
Gentleman Johnny - what do you mean in the underlined portion? And how does it relate to a desire to No Lynch?
I have no interest in no lynching because "there could be crosskills, we have a lot of power, stick it to Iso". Having a town directed kill is a benefit to town, and lynching during the day doesn't make crosskills less likely and it doesn't mean we can't use the power that we have.
However, don't really think Gentleman Johnny is scum despite pushing his crazy-town case; he's putting himself out there quite a bit by pushing said crazy-town case and I don't actually believe that him as scum believes he can manipulate the town into no lynching, so.
I like this section of Nacho's post for it's logic. It shows that he is actually looking for motivation and not just jumping on something. He also voted for Tom in this post, which I don't agree with at this point.
Not sure that I believe the posting restriction being implied here. The song in question isn't even titled "Yo, Vanilla." It's "Ice, Ice, Baby." Unless the restriction is lyrics and not title, in which case, Tordeck could be giving us a lot more content.
Axelrod's #80 is a good post questioning Xyre's stance. With IABM claiming Seer (which I guess is a cop for werewolf games), Xyre has set up a lose lose situation regardless of his results.
xyre has not looked great, mostly just attacking and name calling without showing his work. but he certainly doesnt look as bad as imabusinessman or rodemy.
that said, i dont think anyone has said enough to really warrant being sure about them in any way. i get that absolute statements can provoke reactions in a way that waffling can't, but the only ones that are actually certain of anything yet are scum.
On one hand you call out Xyre for not showing his work but yet you do the same thing in this train of thought. Show your work. Also did you have a vote out on anyone at this point?
I thought I was voting tomsloger but apparently I'm not...
Unvote: oceanblack vote: tomsloger
IABM originally made it seem that his vote on me was due to being a seer. He then moves forward with a different vote. What was your original vote on Ocean based on?
First off, i am voting someone. So no, i dont support a no lynch.
Second, i totally didnt think about the fact his role can be used during day only.... either way, his claim seems forced and planned. Sticking to that for now.
And by the looks of it, tom is on the chopping block. Lets do this
unvote vote tomsloger
Oh Govnah, what are your thoughts on this wagon?
Let's look at the 2 bolded parts. You say you do not support a Day 1 no lynch, and use the fact that you are voting someone as a counter argument. BUT, you want to force Nachos to prove his claim by running someone up quickly and getting him to pardon them. THIS WILL RESULT IN A NO LYNCH!!!
That last comment seems especially off to me. How about this. Let's run you up for a lynch, and we'll see if Nachos feels like pardoning you...
I'm concerned about the twist of words that DoTA is pulling here. Rodemy never said anything about pardoning at this point. Only asked for his thoughts.
Alright. I want to post what I have up to this point. i'll post more as I read through page 5 if needed. otherwise, I'll jump in.
@DotArchon - Not sure if I'm getting you here. I agree that the post sounds like Rodemy wanting to get a wagon going simply to prove Nacho's claim, but I don't think that was on his mind when he voted me. Rodemy can freely claim this is the case if he wants...
I'm confused. I was responding to your saying that I was twisting Rodemy's words. He had voted for Wildfire and Tomsloger at that point. What does any of that have to do with his vote on you?
Does your vote for Nachomamma8 have anything to do with his declaration that he was town?
Yes, actually. Looking at his recently-completed games, this isn't something he's done as either alignment. And he's been town in his most-recent handful so it's not like he has a reason to be excited to "finally" be town.
I don't buy it. "Because rvs" What were you calling out "he did" I am actually serious in this question.
I never played governer but here is why i thought it wasnt town:
We vote someone we think is scum and we go to lynch, he can stop it, lynchee is not flipped, and we go to night. Is this a one shot per person? Because that sounds like you can stop a scum from being lynched once. Not multiple times. I can see it as a scum role. You can save them once and move on, we wont know their alignment (which in a two scumteam game, seems pretty useful)
How can town benefit from this role? It kind of means that we have to agree with him or we get a no lynch. If he is scum, he can use this to destroy the entire town.
Why am i the only one who sees this power as evil?
As for proving it: we send someone up to lynch, mkay? He will HAVE to "pardon" that person regardless, and then what? It just proves he can stop lynches.
He can also just run someone up using this claim as a guide and then "oops" roleblocked.
I don't like this claim out front after wildfire was convieniently egging him on about claiming town. It seems forced and preplanned, esspecially since he explained the "benifits" of claiming and how there is no way this can be scum.
That being said, Wildfire, answer my question.
@Antny: It was this post of his. When I first read it I got the impression that the bolded, specifically that "m'kay", was him suggesting that we run a wagon up to get Nachos to prove his claim. I have a bad habit of reading too much into small things like that and basing a case on it. Hasn't always worked out for me.
First off, i am voting someone. So no, i dont support a no lynch.
Second, i totally didnt think about the fact his role can be used during day only.... either way, his claim seems forced and planned. Sticking to that for now.
And by the looks of it, tom is on the chopping block. Lets do this
unvote vote tomsloger
Oh Govnah, what are your thoughts on this wagon?
Let's look at the 2 bolded parts. You say you do not support a Day 1 no lynch, and use the fact that you are voting someone as a counter argument. BUT, you want to force Nachos to prove his claim by running someone up quickly and getting him to pardon them. THIS WILL RESULT IN A NO LYNCH!!!
That last comment seems especially off to me. How about this. Let's run you up for a lynch, and we'll see if Nachos feels like pardoning you...
DoTArchon is probably scum.
You came after me for what I said about Nachos, but when I do the same to Rodemy for going after Nachos, you say I'm scum... Why does this make me scummy?
Unvote.
You're being malicious. Rodemy is just being foolish.
Mistaken maybe, but I never intended to come across as malicious. To me, it seemed counter-intuitive for Rodemy to say he doesn't support a no-lynch but then want Nachos to prove his claim.
Dot is scum. Tordek probably town which makes me real sad.
Why do you think I'm scum? You've quoted the same post that Seppel did when he called me scum, but without providing reasons for why it stands out to you.
First off, i am voting someone. So no, i dont support a no lynch.
Second, i totally didnt think about the fact his role can be used during day only.... either way, his claim seems forced and planned. Sticking to that for now.
And by the looks of it, tom is on the chopping block. Lets do this
unvote vote tomsloger
Oh Govnah, what are your thoughts on this wagon?
Let's look at the 2 bolded parts. You say you do not support a Day 1 no lynch, and use the fact that you are voting someone as a counter argument. BUT, you want to force Nachos to prove his claim by running someone up quickly and getting him to pardon them. THIS WILL RESULT IN A NO LYNCH!!!
That last comment seems especially off to me. How about this. Let's run you up for a lynch, and we'll see if Nachos feels like pardoning you...
DoTArchon is probably scum.
You came after me for what I said about Nachos, but when I do the same to Rodemy for going after Nachos, you say I'm scum... Why does this make me scummy?
I'm just going to try and play the game my way and to hell with the consequences.
^@Sir Chris: reminder^
Can you explain what you mean by this?
Are you ignoring my vote on you and the case I laid out on purpose? I see you also didn't respond to Axelrod when he mentioned the same thing as what I did about your early comment on TappingStones. Why is that?
From the Mafiascum wiki:
The Gunsmith is an information role that can target a player at Night to learn if they have a gun in flavor. Members of the Mafia (that are not Doctors), Cops, FBI Agents, Vigilantes, other Gunsmiths, Paranoid Gun Owners, etc. all have guns in traditional flavor. Notably, Serial Killers and Doctors do not have guns.
In games with Werewolves, Seer may simply be another name for Cop, or it may be a Faction Cop who can only detect Werewolves but not Mafia.
I'm gonna go with the cheese.
What specifically do you find disingenuous about my posts?
This is the first time I'm in a game from the start, I thought it was bad form to leave an RVS vote hanging once RVS is over.
Can you please explain what you mean by forced language?
I can't go into detail about the bad habit comment because that game is still ongoing.
I've explained why I said I'm afraid to do anything.
I guess you're going to be disappointed then when I flip town.
Only have 2 so far:
TappingStones - I don't like how TS attacked Oceansblack for the non-native speaker comment. I didn't read it as a "thinly veiled and tacky insult", this is the Internet and it is possible that there are people in this game who don't speak English as their home language. I also find TS to be more confrontational during that debate than OB, that argument got blown out of proportion very quickly. This links to my next player,
Tomsloger - This comment seemed strange to me
The point Nachos made looked clear to me, be proactive in questioning people and forming reads rather than waiting for other people to ask the questions and reacting to that. Town are supposed to hunt the scum, scum know who is town and who isn't (obviously this game is different for having 2 scum teams) and can therefore play more reactively.
Then in post 111, during the debate between TS and OB (which started because of Tom), he calls OB hostile, and in post 116 he again calls OB hostile, says that TS is "lighthearted and guileless (as I said I read more hostility in Ts's posts than OB's) and refers to the argument as a slap fight )which I take as meaning silly rather than indicative of alignment).
In 154 he votes for Xyre, offering to expand later on why, After asking one seemingly unrelated question (in which he compares Xyre to Necarg, Xyre's top scum read), he unvotes without much explanation.
Same for his vote on iamabusinessman in #181, the vote is placed but there's very little motivation for it (I will admit I did the same when I first voted Tom in post 156, all I said was that he felt off to me after a reread). What I also found odd is that he never questioned that vote, he posted 4 times before I unvoted and moved on to Rodemy.
I also find it annoying that he answers questions directed at other players,
although this probably isn't alignment indicative. For example in 103 he answers Rodemy's question to Wildfire, in 353 he answers my question to iamabusinessman and in 358 he answers Antny's question to Jobie.
Feeling better about my initial vote,
Vote: Tomsloger
It's my second game, and my first one of this size. Almost everything I've done so far has made people scum read me. So yes, I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed and uncertain.
I used the term because that is what my experience in this game has been so far, a lot of suspicion aimed my way and very few questions.
Not trying to make a point, asking because I really don't understand why it could be considered WIFOM. It's a binary choice, either he's lying or he's not. Don't see how it could be circular reasoning.
Also, 1 shot of each sounds to me like a very underpowered role. Even if your target is scum there's a 50% chance you use the wrong ability on them.
@Seppel: Where do you see a scum slip from Antny? I've reread his posts but I'm not seeing anything that jumps out at me.
That last comment seems especially off to me./quote]
What felt off to me was that instead of referring to Nachos directly, he used a phrase that to me seemed very sarcastic. Rodemy even admitted that rereading his post he can see how I thought he was pushing for Nachos to prove the claim.
AtE?
Bad posts? If the point of the game is to ask questions and cast suspicion, then how are my posts bad if that's what I'm trying to do? Maybe it would be better if I'm lynched. All I seem to be doing is distracting you from finding actual scum. I saw your comment of your vote should be considered to be on me, but why not just vote and get it over with.
(K)oth
(O)f
(T)he
(H)ammer
I explained my reasoning here:
And Rodemy responded here:
I've only been playing for about 2 months, my first game (a basic at Mafiascum) hasn't even finished yet. I'm trying to keep up with everything happening in here but I'm feeling quite lost. I've read a few older completed games but I'm very much not a 'Meta' person. I keep rereading the thread looking for things I can work with but it's a bit overwhelming when the one thing I do go after sets several people (You, Gentleman Johnny and iamabusinessman (whatever his reasons are...)) after me as scum.
That's how I scumhunt. I find what to me looks like inconsistencies and shine a spotlight on them. Right now I'm too afraid to move on anything else because all I've managed to do in this game so far is look like scum. I do find it odd though that not a single person who has called me scum is voting for me. Why is that?
I'm confused. I was responding to your saying that I was twisting Rodemy's words. He had voted for Wildfire and Tomsloger at that point. What does any of that have to do with his vote on you?
@Antny: It was this post of his. When I first read it I got the impression that the bolded, specifically that "m'kay", was him suggesting that we run a wagon up to get Nachos to prove his claim. I have a bad habit of reading too much into small things like that and basing a case on it. Hasn't always worked out for me.
Mistaken maybe, but I never intended to come across as malicious. To me, it seemed counter-intuitive for Rodemy to say he doesn't support a no-lynch but then want Nachos to prove his claim.
Why do you think I'm scum? You've quoted the same post that Seppel did when he called me scum, but without providing reasons for why it stands out to you.
Unvote.