[quote from="DoTArchon »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/645040-mafia-classic-wolves-vs-mafia-day-1-blood-moon?comment=672"]Tom trying to garner a wagon on me also looks super scummy. Yet you don't mention that. Why are you so concerned with Tom's well-being?
Tom was my top scum read (Post 410) until Nacho's recent post, which made me go back and reread him. I have him currently as neutral/lean town.
I don't think you can compare the Jobie>>>Tom wagon to the Tom>>>TappingStones wagon.
Tom interacted with you, explained his reads, and continued to question and engage with other players throughout. He has since moved on to Sir Chris.
Jobie is voting for Tomsloger.
Reason 1: "Remember how much better Predator Mafia was after a certain player (Tom) died..."(Post 347)
Reason 2: "I saw Tom make a scum tell."(Post 532)
In between these two posts he joined Gentleman Johnny on Necarg's wagon because "Ok GJ, you've twisted my arm. The point on overcompensating sold me."(Post 352)
He unvoted when Sir Chris replaced Necarg, saying he wanted to get Chris' opinion of the game "before thinking about jumping back on"(Post 402). He has not interacted with Sir Chris once since then. @Jobie: Are you avoiding Sir Chris?
He also joined the Xyre wagon with only a "weird gut-feel" to go on. (Post 465)
Note that at the time of his Necarg and Xyre votes, those were the popular wagons that were gaining traction. To me he looks like lurking* scum that is following the popular wagons and when that isn't working, jumping on Tom trying to use PredMaf and Toms high post count as motivation to get people to join.
*I know he is/was VLA for a while but even taking that out of the equation he hasn't added much content to the game with the posts he's made.
Jobie is town. His attack on Tom makes sense. There were no less than three town players in PRedator mafia that were happy with Tom getting vigged (knowing full well he was town). His play was that disruptive. Check out the post game conversation for more on this topic.
What happened in Predator Mafia should have no bearing on this game, unless it is something that can provide meta analysis of a player. His attack on Tom does not make sense in the context of this game. He has pointed out that Tom made a "solid scum tell", but has not elaborated on this. His post before that was an attempt to push anyone who played in PredMaf to join his wagon on Tom, because he finds Tom annoying (as do you). Bearing a grudge does not necessarily make Jobie scum, but the way he is trying to garner support for a wagon on Tom looks scummy.
Figured as much Should we be looking into how/why Zionite missed that, considering that there was also some discussion generated by your subbing in and not just Iso's post?
-Tom: I don't think his approach to the OB/TS fight early game was an approach that he would take as town, and his behavior in the discussion with Seppel also looks insanely town. He's also been a huge presence again and I like the direction most of his scumhunting has taken. Tom is the only player I'd currently pardon if lynched.
Based on the context of the rest of the paragraph I'm assuming the bolded was a typo? In any case Unvote
I'll reread Sir Chris and the little we have from Hunt when I get to work a bit later.
I've iso'd Necarg/Sir Chris and Huntzilla, the former I'm just not seeing it, and the latter hasn't posted nearly enough to work with. Tempted to vote for Huntzilla to try and pry him out if the woodwork.
Iso'd a few other players to see if anything stood out. I really don't like how Jobie has approached the game so far, I started pulling out quotes to put together a case and then found this:
You will concede, I assume, that your opening posts of the game were uninspiring. We have (1) a random vote, designated as such; (2) a claim of limited access because of work; and (3) the oddly ranting post I quoted above.
We then have your first (and one of only two, I believe) post of any substance at all, @ #170. Here, you do that thing that scum do, which is ask a bunch of random questions to people in an effort to look like you are trying to scum-hunt, but the questions are weak, and nothing ever gets followed up on, which is a big red flag that you didn't actually care about the questions to begin with. You also do the scum thing of calling out other people without actually explaining why (here, your "strike one" comments about two different people. This post is mostly a bunch of nothing dressed up to try and look like something.
Then, there's your second post of any substance @ #347. Here you give your "catch-up" notes. Once again you give "strikes" to people without actually saying why or what for. You weigh on on TL vs. TappingStones to essentially accuse TL of misrepping in his description of how Tapping played in another game (Predator). You then proceed to immediately undercut your own position by apparently acknowledging that Tapping is playing differently, but saying you can't tell if it's because he's scum or not. You say you don't like any of the current wagons but you don't "have enough information" to start one of your own. You then proceed to (hypocritically, I would say) call out some other people for lurking and/or not contributing.
The rest of your game looks mainly like bandwagon voting. Necarg because of something GJ said. Now Xyre because "gut."
So, am I wrong? You disagree with my assessment? By all means, please explain to me how Townie you have been this game.
This sums up pretty much everything I wanted to say/ask Jobie up to that point. Then these two posts came up:
He just dropped another solid scum tell that just makes me want to see what his alignment is. I think Tom's alignment gives us the most information heading into tomorrow, regardless of his actual flip.
Vote: Jobie
Trying to garner support from players to lynch someone without a warranted reason(other than he annoyed you in another game)seems scummy. Can you elaborate on the "solid scum slip"? And why his flip, regardless of alignment, would be the most informative?
-Tom: I don't think his approach to the OB/TS fight early game was an approach that he would take as town, and his behavior in the discussion with Seppel also looks insanely town. He's also been a huge presence again and I like the direction most of his scumhunting has taken. Tom is the only player I'd currently pardon if lynched.
Based on the context of the rest of the paragraph I'm assuming the bolded was a typo? In any case Unvote
I'll reread Sir Chris and the little we have from Hunt when I get to work a bit later.
Hmm...that's a great question. I think one being scum goes a long way toward "town points" for the other, but I wouldn't go as far as to say "cleared". That's a dangerous trap for the analytical mind. You don't want to rule out something that's still very much on the table unless you have no doubts whatsoever.
It's also worth noting that with two factions, even if someone outs a scum in a way that would make it obvious that they were not part of that scum's team, they could still be part of the other team. It's next to impossible in this game to set up a "if X is scum, Y is almost certainly not scum" paradigm.
this is the clearly correct answer. not sure if zionite missed it or is just trying to town clear one of them for reasons of his own.
You might want to go back and reread the quote from Zionite there, because the part I've highlighted seems to say the opposite of what you are now accusing him of. What made you think he was trying to town clear anyone?
This jumped out at me because of the odd way DoTArchon steps in to defend Zionite here. It's CLEAR from the post that Zionite is suggesting that a "scum" flip from TappingStones or myself = "Town points" for the other, notwithstanding the qualifier he threw in about the other not being "cleared." And it's wrong because of (1) as noted - multiple scum teams and (2) bad logic period.
It was less about defending Zionite and more about pointing out the error in Tom's post. I guess it does look like I'm defending Zionite, if you consider my discussion with TS earlier on this page, but there as well I'm just trying to point out a flawed argument. Seems to be a few where Zionite is concerned, need to reread him. Maybe I'm missing something.
You say he dropped off the map a bit and hasn't said anything new since you posted the "I'm hunting you" comment, but ignored his responses to it. This is why I asked about your lack of further interaction with him.
Put a little effort into the game Zionite. I called you SCUM IN CAPITAL LETTERS and in the next post called you very lynchable. READ THE POST. STOP skimming.
Note that Zionite still hasn't responded to me. This post on his part was a bold faced lie. I called him SCUM (written in capital letters and then in the next post said he was very lynchable.
Note that we now have confirmation that Zionite has read the post proving that he lied and has avoided the issue entirely.
Zionite why did you lie? Did you think it would help your case against me?
By the way, Tom called me scum after I called him scum...that makes him scum?
You saying I'm scum isn't some kind of safety net to protect your weak play. If you play bad you're going to get called out on it, I could care less if you said I was scum "first".
Are you a five-year old? "Mommy, I called him scum ffiirrrsstt"
Still waiting on Zionite to fess up to his lie. He claims that I posted he was "lean town" and in the next post said he was "very lynchable". I can't find this. Where are these posts. 4TH TIME I've asked for Zionite to provide the posts in question. I haven't dealt with this much evasive behavior since I began playing Mafia. But as Zionite has claimed he gets run up in day one often I can totally understand why.
UNVOTE; VOTE:ZIONITE
Answer my question. Where are these posts you speak of?
In the first four quotes you reference your reads list posts that he clearly misread, then in the 5th post you say you don't know which posts he's referring to.
ETR doesn't address A SINGLE THING in my long post of reads. Just gives a vauge answer that he doesn't like the post. WHAT doesn't he like? He disagrees with ALL my scum and town reads?? Town ETR would have been looking to react to my material case by case or at least focus on a few suspects that he wants to talk about.
Fine, if that's what you want, let's talk about your post. First, I'm going to bold all the times that you use language to paint the picture that you want.
This has been easily the most suspect slot so far. OB's horrific play put him in a position for others to scrutinize him, but the problem is that he doesn't hold up to the scrutiny. #25 VOTES JOBIE and says WF is a good vote too. #26 confirms his vote is not RSV. #29 unvotes Jobie and naked votes GJ. (He's just looking to run someone up. Has no consideration of whether someone is actually scum, just wants to start a wagon.) #36 WF wisely points out OB saying scum is more likely to call out Nacho's announcment than town, but is still voting Jobie. (barn/ this) #76 Says GJ is trying to produce minimal content-scum motivated. Says Zionite is copying his read. Is evasive about axelrod's question. Tries to say it's scummy (this is the start of quite a few attacks where he says anyone who disagrees with him is scum). #87 Dodges Axelrod's question. Admits he hasn't answered the question. (Gives a bogus reason, check it out), again calls question scumy. #96 pointless post #98 links all of Tom's posts without any explanations. #101 Goes at Tom. Unvotes GJ VOTES TOM. Insults Tom's English based on paragraph spacing, capitalization, etc. #109 Very confrontational unvotes, now is on TS. (He's already voted how many people???) Essentially for asking him why he's attacking Tom's English and what mistakes he couldn't understand. #110 Admits he ignored info on Tom "for [his] own reasons". #111 Tom calls out OB for understanding yet saying he didn't understand. (it's unclear to all which posts were supposed to be "unclear/non-native") #112 Says TS is his top scum read.Accuses of "fanning the flames" (actually I was telling him to cut it out/asking what was unclear) #117 Tells me, If I disagreed with his post I shouldn't have commented. (WWHHAATT????) Makes up a wildly conspiratory post of TS's motives. (Is thinking from a scum mindset). #119 OB IMPLODES #120 continues implosion #122 Says Tom and I are opposite scum teams. #127 OB is getting zero support against me so lashes out at the player base. #132 Personal attacks against Tom and I. #149 replaces out. Says I am scum and Tom is a good lynch. Nacho is town. (duh)
Others also saw a scum slip but I think my case against him is solid enough without that. If you believe the scum slip then that's just icing on the cake for me. But I think this argument is pretty solid.
ETR/OceanBlack SCUM lynch or vig if you can.
Nacho- Currently town but I want more participation. We already have Nacho, Seppel, Wildfire, GJ and I to build a solid base around. I'm also feeling good about Jobie but need to see a lot more action and reads.
DOTA #81 Calls out OB on his strange defense. #105 Corretly calls out OB for reading too much into RVS. #107 (very careful)Reads OB as nretral #156 VOTES Tom "Something puts me off", "Gut read" (I DONT LIKE THIS) #303 admits he is too scared to do anything. His words! Town shouldn't be scared.
LEAN SCUM
Necarg #58 Asks a random question. Says he disagrees with GJ and that he has no clear reads. #69 Calls out IABM VOTES IABM. #95 Xyre calls out Necarg as classic meta lurking scum. Gives decent reasoning. #205 Tom is scum. Trying very hard to give minimal input and is a bit nervous IMO.
Lean Scum
Axelrod #32 Asks a pointless question. #56 Asks OB why Jobie was a better vote than wildfire? VOTES XYRE says because "voting someone who probably isn't scum" #80 Says xyre is playing both sides. Clearly demonstrates xyre's suspect idea. #82 Calls out OB on "fixation" comment and strange "Why is my vote a concern?" Points out hostility. Calls out OB's conspiracy theory. #139 Tells OB to chill. Says he's making a mountain out of a molehill. Says he doesn't think OB is scum. (HUH??)
Lean Town-He's just playing poorly. He sees a lot of the scummy play in OB but doesn't want to rock the boat. Timid town (or scum I can't be sure). I'll lean town till I see more.
Zionite #40 Naked VOTES AXELROD. Shows dislike for GJ's no lynch plan. #41 Says Nacho "im town" is not a tell. Wildfire has no case. #63 Says he's voting to "make the mod do more work" (BAD joke, worse vote) Quotes the xyre post about Necarg but doesn't explain. #159 townreads TS, Tom, OB. VOTES TORDECK #300 barns axelrod and votes me #306 asks Tom to defend me, doesn't want to look himself. Particularly bizarre because it's transparent that he doesn't care about the answer. Asking Tom to do work for him. BIZARRE.
SCUM
XYRE #47 votes IABM. Asks how much experience he has. (I hate this vote) #62 Says Necarg is scum. #73 naked votes Necarg. #148 Asks Necarg his opinion of Tom? (trying to gauge the wagon?) #167 reiterates he thinks Necarg and IABM are scum. #301 "likes axelrod's TS post" #321 admits his IABM angle is busted.
Has been a walking disaster most of this game begging for people to vote for him.
Lean Scum proceed with lynch, I will support.
Last scum is between IABM and Tom. We can find this out in short order.
Now, let's look deeper. You present a "case" on me. As you can see by the bolded language choices, you are pushing something that isn't there. OB had a disagreement and you're using that to push a weak case. You did not, at any point in this post describe how those actions were scum motivated, simply that they were.
Next, you present your thoughts on Nacho. You have Nacho as town, but provide quite literally no reasoning for it. You then proceed to group yourself with him and other town reads. This is clearly a buddying attempt.
DoTA, you have leaning scum. I assume the reasoning being that you didn't like a post and that town shouldn't be scared. I'd like more thoughts as to why town wouldn't be scared?
Necarg you have more opinion on, specifically that he is avoiding giving opinion and yet you only have him leaning scum. You have a very similar post for Axel but yet you have him leaning town. And even go so far as to excuse his play. How is Axel playing poorly in your opinion? You also include the possibility that he could be scum, which makes it appear that you are hedging your bets. What has he done that makes you think scum as opposed to timid town?
Zionite you call out as scum for bizarre play. How is Zionite's play to this point more bizarre than say, Tom or Necarg?
Lastly, Xyre is called out for being a "walking disaster" and yet you don't qualify it any more than saying he's been asking people to vote him "all game." How do you reconcile that mindset as scum?
Overall, you are pushing "cases" using charged language as I said before. there is very little factual information and you do not demonstrate how these posts show scum motivation.
I'm also going to Unvote Antny at this point. That vote isn't serving a purpose at this point.
Here you accuse him of misrepping you and don't answer any of the questions he put forward:
@Tom - I withheld my vote because I wanted to hear more from DoTA. His most recent post doesn't fully change my mind about him, but it does lessen my concerns.
Vote: TappingStones
No big surprise here. This slot has been the most poorly played so far this game. Etr gives an OMGUS vote right after I made a post that showed how scummy his slot has looked thus far.
Etr is merely playing for his own survival. He doesn't care about finding scum. The blatant misrep on my case of him confirms this. He high-lighted everything that I included about my thoughts and calls that "charged language". You aren't playing any better than OB which is unfortunate for you.
Yes, I am hunting you. You aren't likely to make it very far unless I go. I see you understand that.
@Tom - I withheld my vote because I wanted to hear more from DoTA. His most recent post doesn't fully change my mind about him, but it does lessen my concerns.
Vote: TappingStones
No big surprise here. This slot has been the most poorly played so far this game. Etr gives an OMGUS vote right after I made a post that showed how scummy his slot has looked thus far.
Etr is merely playing for his own survival. He doesn't care about finding scum. The blatant misrep on my case of him confirms this. He high-lighted everything that I included about my thoughts and calls that "charged language". You aren't playing any better than OB which is unfortunate for you.
Yes, I am hunting you. You aren't likely to make it very far unless I go. I see you understand that.
Just so we're clear, you had me as scum, in part, for not addressing your post. Now I've addressed your post and asked several questions and you are not going to address them? This further shows that you are not interested in anything but mud slinging.
Yes, I am hunting you. You aren't likely to make it very far unless I go. I see you understand that.
You say he dropped off the map a bit and hasn't said anything new since you posted the "I'm hunting you" comment, but ignored his responses to it. This is why I asked about your lack of further interaction with him.
No clue. We can only speculate as to the setup at the moment, after a few Days we'll have more to work with.
"Last scum is xxx" has a very definite tone to it though, as if you know how many players you're looking for.
You say the last scum is between IMAB and Tom. What makes you so certain that there are 6 scum players?
That's an old post DOTA. I'm off IABM. I was confused by his early play and what his PR actually could do. I'm much more comfortable with him now. "Lean town". As I explained to Seppel before the Necarg read was an acceptance of meta. Seppel and I played together in Amyril Seat and caught him very early. Sir Chris has played the way I expect good town to play. He participates, makes solid points and clearly articulates himself. "Lean town". You are undetermined at the moment.
Xyre, Zionite, Etr and Tom are all fine votes as far as I'm concerned. Zionite looking worse and worse as the game progresses. Xyre has been scummy throughout. Etr has brought zero to the game besides inheriting OB's bad arguments and Tom is largely irrelevant, even as scum. I'll lynch him if I have the chance but he's likely to continue to give up his scummates as time goes on.
My question is not about the who and why, but about the certainty with which you stated that there are 6 slots out of the 18 that are scum.
Yes, I am hunting you. You aren't likely to make it very far unless I go. I see you understand that.
Forgot to add this to my last post. You seemed dead set on hunting EtR but you don't seem to have interacted with him again since this post. Why is that?
This has been easily the most suspect slot so far. OB's horrific play put him in a position for others to scrutinize him, but the problem is that he doesn't hold up to the scrutiny. #25 VOTES JOBIE and says WF is a good vote too. #26 confirms his vote is not RSV. #29 unvotes Jobie and naked votes GJ. (He's just looking to run someone up. Has no consideration of whether someone is actually scum, just wants to start a wagon.) #36 WF wisely points out OB saying scum is more likely to call out Nacho's announcment than town, but is still voting Jobie. (barn/ this) #76 Says GJ is trying to produce minimal content-scum motivated. Says Zionite is copying his read. Is evasive about axelrod's question. Tries to say it's scummy (this is the start of quite a few attacks where he says anyone who disagrees with him is scum). #87 Dodges Axelrod's question. Admits he hasn't answered the question. (Gives a bogus reason, check it out), again calls question scumy. #96 pointless post #98 links all of Tom's posts without any explanations. #101 Goes at Tom. Unvotes GJ VOTES TOM. Insults Tom's English based on paragraph spacing, capitalization, etc. #109 Very confrontational unvotes, now is on TS. (He's already voted how many people???) Essentially for asking him why he's attacking Tom's English and what mistakes he couldn't understand. #110 Admits he ignored info on Tom "for [his] own reasons". #111 Tom calls out OB for understanding yet saying he didn't understand. (it's unclear to all which posts were supposed to be "unclear/non-native") #112 Says TS is his top scum read.Accuses of "fanning the flames" (actually I was telling him to cut it out/asking what was unclear) #117 Tells me, If I disagreed with his post I shouldn't have commented. (WWHHAATT????) Makes up a wildly conspiratory post of TS's motives. (Is thinking from a scum mindset). #119 OB IMPLODES #120 continues implosion #122 Says Tom and I are opposite scum teams. #127 OB is getting zero support against me so lashes out at the player base. #132 Personal attacks against Tom and I. #149 replaces out. Says I am scum and Tom is a good lynch. Nacho is town. (duh)
Others also saw a scum slip but I think my case against him is solid enough without that. If you believe the scum slip then that's just icing on the cake for me. But I think this argument is pretty solid.
ETR/OceanBlack SCUM lynch or vig if you can.
Nacho- Currently town but I want more participation. We already have Nacho, Seppel, Wildfire, GJ and I to build a solid base around. I'm also feeling good about Jobie but need to see a lot more action and reads.
DOTA #81 Calls out OB on his strange defense. #105 Corretly calls out OB for reading too much into RVS. #107 (very careful)Reads OB as nretral #156 VOTES Tom "Something puts me off", "Gut read" (I DONT LIKE THIS) #303 admits he is too scared to do anything. His words! Town shouldn't be scared.
LEAN SCUM
Necarg #58 Asks a random question. Says he disagrees with GJ and that he has no clear reads. #69 Calls out IABM VOTES IABM. #95 Xyre calls out Necarg as classic meta lurking scum. Gives decent reasoning. #205 Tom is scum. Trying very hard to give minimal input and is a bit nervous IMO.
Lean Scum
Axelrod #32 Asks a pointless question. #56 Asks OB why Jobie was a better vote than wildfire? VOTES XYRE says because "voting someone who probably isn't scum" #80 Says xyre is playing both sides. Clearly demonstrates xyre's suspect idea. #82 Calls out OB on "fixation" comment and strange "Why is my vote a concern?" Points out hostility. Calls out OB's conspiracy theory. #139 Tells OB to chill. Says he's making a mountain out of a molehill. Says he doesn't think OB is scum. (HUH??)
Lean Town-He's just playing poorly. He sees a lot of the scummy play in OB but doesn't want to rock the boat. Timid town (or scum I can't be sure). I'll lean town till I see more.
Zionite #40 Naked VOTES AXELROD. Shows dislike for GJ's no lynch plan. #41 Says Nacho "im town" is not a tell. Wildfire has no case. #63 Says he's voting to "make the mod do more work" (BAD joke, worse vote) Quotes the xyre post about Necarg but doesn't explain. #159 townreads TS, Tom, OB. VOTES TORDECK #300 barns axelrod and votes me #306 asks Tom to defend me, doesn't want to look himself. Particularly bizarre because it's transparent that he doesn't care about the answer. Asking Tom to do work for him. BIZARRE.
SCUM
XYRE #47 votes IABM. Asks how much experience he has. (I hate this vote) #62 Says Necarg is scum. #73 naked votes Necarg. #148 Asks Necarg his opinion of Tom? (trying to gauge the wagon?) #167 reiterates he thinks Necarg and IABM are scum. #301 "likes axelrod's TS post" #321 admits his IABM angle is busted.
Has been a walking disaster most of this game begging for people to vote for him.
Lean Scum proceed with lynch, I will support.
Last scum is between IABM and Tom. We can find this out in short order.
Working through your post:
Lean scum
DoTArchon, Sir Chris(Necarg), Xyre
Scum
EtR(OB), Zionite
You say the last scum is between IMAB and Tom. What makes you so certain that there are 6 scum players?
Hmm...that's a great question. I think one being scum goes a long way toward "town points" for the other, but I wouldn't go as far as to say "cleared". That's a dangerous trap for the analytical mind. You don't want to rule out something that's still very much on the table unless you have no doubts whatsoever.
It's also worth noting that with two factions, even if someone outs a scum in a way that would make it obvious that they were not part of that scum's team, they could still be part of the other team. It's next to impossible in this game to set up a "if X is scum, Y is almost certainly not scum" paradigm.
this is the clearly correct answer. not sure if zionite missed it or is just trying to town clear one of them for reasons of his own.
You might want to go back and reread the quote from Zionite there, because the part I've highlighted seems to say the opposite of what you are now accusing him of. What made you think he was trying to town clear anyone?
From the Mafiascum wiki:
The Gunsmith is an information role that can target a player at Night to learn if they have a gun in flavor. Members of the Mafia (that are not Doctors), Cops, FBI Agents, Vigilantes, other Gunsmiths, Paranoid Gun Owners, etc. all have guns in traditional flavor. Notably, Serial Killers and Doctors do not have guns.
In games with Werewolves, Seer may simply be another name for Cop, or it may be a Faction Cop who can only detect Werewolves but not Mafia.
I don't really care what the mafiascum says, and I was asking him. Even the wiki says it varies from game to game -_-
My apologies then for posting the descriptions, I did it thinking that it would be easier to get them into the thread for everyone to see so that we were all on the same page as to what the roles are. Early in the game there was quite a bit of speculation and mistaken assumptions (i.e. Gunsmith gives out a 1-shot vig) regarding the roles that anyone could have gone and looked up, as I did when he first claimed.
I still think it sounds a bit underpowered to only have 1 shot of each, but I have no idea what Iso's setup is so I could be mistaken.
also, isnt dotarchon one of the people that got annoyed that i answered a question directed at another player?
seems like a first time scum would be careful not to do what they attacked others for. dont want to risk tappingstones calling you a hypocrite and cause people to try to build you up to be scum.
Why are you using my mistake to take yet another potshot at TS? If you think I'm being hypocritical, why not tackle me directly?
Tom was my top scum read (Post 410) until Nacho's recent post, which made me go back and reread him. I have him currently as neutral/lean town.
I don't think you can compare the Jobie>>>Tom wagon to the Tom>>>TappingStones wagon.
Tom interacted with you, explained his reads, and continued to question and engage with other players throughout. He has since moved on to Sir Chris.
Jobie is voting for Tomsloger.
Reason 1: "Remember how much better Predator Mafia was after a certain player (Tom) died..."(Post 347)
Reason 2: "I saw Tom make a scum tell."(Post 532)
In between these two posts he joined Gentleman Johnny on Necarg's wagon because "Ok GJ, you've twisted my arm. The point on overcompensating sold me."(Post 352)
He unvoted when Sir Chris replaced Necarg, saying he wanted to get Chris' opinion of the game "before thinking about jumping back on"(Post 402). He has not interacted with Sir Chris once since then. @Jobie: Are you avoiding Sir Chris?
He also joined the Xyre wagon with only a "weird gut-feel" to go on. (Post 465)
Note that at the time of his Necarg and Xyre votes, those were the popular wagons that were gaining traction. To me he looks like lurking* scum that is following the popular wagons and when that isn't working, jumping on Tom trying to use PredMaf and Toms high post count as motivation to get people to join.
*I know he is/was VLA for a while but even taking that out of the equation he hasn't added much content to the game with the posts he's made.
What happened in Predator Mafia should have no bearing on this game, unless it is something that can provide meta analysis of a player. His attack on Tom does not make sense in the context of this game. He has pointed out that Tom made a "solid scum tell", but has not elaborated on this. His post before that was an attempt to push anyone who played in PredMaf to join his wagon on Tom, because he finds Tom annoying (as do you). Bearing a grudge does not necessarily make Jobie scum, but the way he is trying to garner support for a wagon on Tom looks scummy.
Figured as much
Just a reminder:
Zionite, are you reading the game???
Iso'd a few other players to see if anything stood out. I really don't like how Jobie has approached the game so far, I started pulling out quotes to put together a case and then found this:
This sums up pretty much everything I wanted to say/ask Jobie up to that point. Then these two posts came up:
Vote: Jobie
Trying to garner support from players to lynch someone without a warranted reason(other than he annoyed you in another game)seems scummy. Can you elaborate on the "solid scum slip"? And why his flip, regardless of alignment, would be the most informative?
Unvote
I'll reread Sir Chris and the little we have from Hunt when I get to work a bit later.
Um, other game...
It was less about defending Zionite and more about pointing out the error in Tom's post. I guess it does look like I'm defending Zionite, if you consider my discussion with TS earlier on this page, but there as well I'm just trying to point out a flawed argument. Seems to be a few where Zionite is concerned, need to reread him. Maybe I'm missing something.
Question 1: Why did you stop interacting with EtR
Question 2: Can you explain why you worded it like that?
Question 3: Can you explain how you went from
to
In the first four quotes you reference your reads list posts that he clearly misread, then in the 5th post you say you don't know which posts he's referring to.
Here you accuse him of misrepping you and don't answer any of the questions he put forward:
Then he tried engaging with you here:
You say he dropped off the map a bit and hasn't said anything new since you posted the "I'm hunting you" comment, but ignored his responses to it. This is why I asked about your lack of further interaction with him.
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No clue. We can only speculate as to the setup at the moment, after a few Days we'll have more to work with.
"Last scum is xxx" has a very definite tone to it though, as if you know how many players you're looking for.
My question is not about the who and why, but about the certainty with which you stated that there are 6 slots out of the 18 that are scum.
Forgot to add this to my last post. You seemed dead set on hunting EtR but you don't seem to have interacted with him again since this post. Why is that?
Working through your post:
Lean scum
DoTArchon, Sir Chris(Necarg), Xyre
Scum
EtR(OB), Zionite
You say the last scum is between IMAB and Tom. What makes you so certain that there are 6 scum players?
My apologies then for posting the descriptions, I did it thinking that it would be easier to get them into the thread for everyone to see so that we were all on the same page as to what the roles are. Early in the game there was quite a bit of speculation and mistaken assumptions (i.e. Gunsmith gives out a 1-shot vig) regarding the roles that anyone could have gone and looked up, as I did when he first claimed.
I still think it sounds a bit underpowered to only have 1 shot of each, but I have no idea what Iso's setup is so I could be mistaken.
Why are you using my mistake to take yet another potshot at TS? If you think I'm being hypocritical, why not tackle me directly?