A friend of mine uses Lullmage Mentor in a Merfolk tribal deck with Cursecatcher. I think that might not be what you're after though.
I used to run a deck based around countering stuff to troll a certain friend, who had a preference for infinite combo decks. (not anymore LOL)
My group is mainly large FFA's, so a deck full of 16 Cancel's is never going to fly.
I based it around bouncing creatures c/o Coastal Breach, Whelming Wave & Crystal Shard, and using the obvious Counterspell, Mystic Snake & Draining Whelk with help from Stunt Double and a heap of draw.
It worked okay without being great, it really needed cards that would just flicker the perms for it to work more efficiently, but I never went there with that deck.
For me, it really does depend on how many opponents you expect to play against. The bigger the table, the more you need mass-bounce.
My very first legacy night went terribly.
I was just first getting into legacy, and my only decks at that stage were Manaless Dredge and cheap mono-blue Booberry-combo.
I had the manaless that night, with very little knowledge as to what to expect.
EVERY deck I played against locked me out with hate, except the combo decks which used extraction.
I won a few, but got locked out of most and scooped within 2-4 turns most times. Yeah it wasn't much fun.
I've played a lot more since, but only when I'm in the mood for it, competitive MTG isn't really *all that* for me, as it's far too expensive for what it is, so I'm usually always playing against the same people.
Second. Pox is where you'd use this, together with Wasteland.
I like that deck quite a bit, especially now that Miracles is no longer a thing.
That said, I'm not sure there's many decks I would consider this for, unless you're playing something with a stax-type bent, or a Stompy build with perms like Trinisphere. But those builds aren't usually mono-black either....
Anyone been considering the new Failure // Comply?
Someone over on source posted up a question on this card, and it has me thinking.
Anyone like this as a sideboard option?
I'm looking at this card mainly because I've been rocking the blue-FoW plan for some time.
I used to run Worldfire as the combo finish with a Dream Halls / Conflux deck.
It was simple and easy to play, simply drop Dream Halls on the field, cast Conflux by discarding something blue (the deck was mainly blue), then grab yourself another conflux, O-ring, Worldfire, Sulfuric Vortex and another choice to discard to DH to cast your pieces.
From memory I had to actually cast COnflux twice to get all the pieces on the battlefield.
It was dumb, easy to disrupt of course, but kinda fun. Also, given that most of the deck was otherwise blue filter-types, it was fairly reliable in finding/casting DH on T5.
I'd love to copy it somehow. That way they're all indestructible.
Yeah that's pretty much what I was gonna say.
Being 5cmc hurts how you build the deck - Phyrexian Metamorph stays with mono-white potentially. I'd get in some Soul Warden-types, as it means your opponents have to question whether playing a creature on their turns is a good play or not....
I'm with FGC - I'd personally cut the Spine of Ish Sah to 1 or 2, and up the disks to 4.
Disk arrives earlier in the game, potentially enabling your Priest of Yawgmoth's earlier. Black decks running a set of disks and ways to recur them can be oppressive, but I'm not sure how this would fit with Hex. (I stopped playing with hex a while ago once my group started frequently playing with Dense Foliage-type perms.)
I would consider cutting Diabolic Tutor entirely for some Expedition Map to find your combo &/or Coffers. I always use at least 2 to 3 Coffers in my black ramp decks so I can use my tutor for other things. Since tutoring for land is a possibility, maybe another singleton like Rogue's Passage?
Lastly, since you're playing with Bloodghast, have you considered something like Ashnod's Altar?
If you're aiming to setup your Priests to cast a Spine or something else with a higher cmc, this could get you there.
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned anything about Razaketh, the Foulblooded. He's only a small step below Griselbrand and will be insanely broken in GB Reaniamtor style decks that have mana dorks or Hapless Researchers or whatever.
I was looking at him - but being a $10 card, and I own a full set of Griselbrand & Rune-scarred Demon already, this fella doesn't really strike me as something I need. I'm gonna wait on this one and see where the price goes, it IS a strong choice!
So I'm looking at Neheb, the Eternal.
Part of me has written this off as too cute to be useful, but the other part of me says "Wow! That's a lot of potential"
Being post-combat, we can use *anything* to hurt our opponents in order to gain substantial mana, starting with the upkeep phase, which is very flexible considering how easy red perms, and non-perms alike, can deal damage to multiple opponents quickly. Purphoros, God of the Forge would love this guy, but is Neheb even necessary here anyway?
Outside Purph is where I'm looking FWIW, as that card is getting crazy expensive for a MP card.
I may just wait on a few of these as some are bound to come down, although I'm not sure about Ramunap Excavator - being just a unique card it may just go up.
The only problem I see with this deck is that it's just boring to watch someone play solitaire.
This.
Filled with the right non-creature cards, this deck can combo out and win on the spot once you untap with either this or Guttersnipe on the board. It's been done in my group already, and I reckon there's a good chance no one is gonna stand for it again....
You're dead right.
Cultivate just happens to be what I have free. My sets of Skyshroud Claim's & Explosive Vegetation are in other decks.
However without a rampant growth, you're waiting until T4 to play a ramp spell, meaning that you're playing ramp to play a 5cmc spell on turn 5.
I may just straight swap Cultivate for Nature's Lore, but I'll have to test it out without Breeding Pool (I don't own any).
Agree with all the above. A previous version of the my deck was pretty much your first line. Like I said above, the combo part was fine, getting enough damage through before a sweeper takes away my tokens was something else, in previous large FFA's. My take on the deck isn't perfect by any means, but I'm tryin to aim towards a design that allows MS to both create an army that can take down an entire table, without going infinite, and can attack before someone can play a sorcery-speed sweep.
This is a deck I've been working with for quite a few different versions.
I've also played variations of the deck extensively against a variety of opponents in small and large FFA's.
The deck I listed above has been playtested.
I don't own Mystical Tutor and I'm unlikely to buy any, bit pricey for a banned card I can't play in legacy.
My initial version was full of *replacement* cards like Frantic Search, Snap etc. See previous thread....
Temporal Trespass is a card I've used in this deck before, and I realise it's good.
The reason I've been trying out other *extra-turn* cards is because TT exiles itself, and exiles a fair portion of the grave.
Not a big issue obviously - but I had quite a few "big" turns where I just couldn't get the job done against a large FFA table. Some token decks create a problem for this deck as it can be difficult to get the damage through on occasion, so being able to have 4 or 5 extra turns in a row, to create an insurmountable army is where I'm heading with this.
My thought is that MS can possibly exile itself to net back all your extra-turn card(s) in a pinch, enabling that line of play if draw cards aren't doing enough. That's why Throng is in there, because it goes to the grave and I can get it back again.
Notorious Throng isn't Time Warp, but I don't own them. NT has worked just fine for creating tokens in this deck too. As I'm effectively taking multiple turns in a row and smacking people each time, and X=damage dealt in a deck that creates large tokens, having a army of 20 faeries drop in a single turn has happened before.
For me, I want the deck to swarm quickly and swing. I realise the combo version is quicker, but unless you can immediately connect and kill your opponents in your combo turn, sweepers may quickly take away any advantage you may have had.
....And I expect to see sweepers played fairly regularly.
Would that be an Orgazmorator perhaps?
I used to run a deck based around countering stuff to troll a certain friend, who had a preference for infinite combo decks. (not anymore LOL)
My group is mainly large FFA's, so a deck full of 16 Cancel's is never going to fly.
I based it around bouncing creatures c/o Coastal Breach, Whelming Wave & Crystal Shard, and using the obvious Counterspell, Mystic Snake & Draining Whelk with help from Stunt Double and a heap of draw.
It worked okay without being great, it really needed cards that would just flicker the perms for it to work more efficiently, but I never went there with that deck.
For me, it really does depend on how many opponents you expect to play against. The bigger the table, the more you need mass-bounce.
I was just first getting into legacy, and my only decks at that stage were Manaless Dredge and cheap mono-blue Booberry-combo.
I had the manaless that night, with very little knowledge as to what to expect.
EVERY deck I played against locked me out with hate, except the combo decks which used extraction.
I won a few, but got locked out of most and scooped within 2-4 turns most times. Yeah it wasn't much fun.
I've played a lot more since, but only when I'm in the mood for it, competitive MTG isn't really *all that* for me, as it's far too expensive for what it is, so I'm usually always playing against the same people.
I like that deck quite a bit, especially now that Miracles is no longer a thing.
That said, I'm not sure there's many decks I would consider this for, unless you're playing something with a stax-type bent, or a Stompy build with perms like Trinisphere. But those builds aren't usually mono-black either....
Someone over on source posted up a question on this card, and it has me thinking.
Anyone like this as a sideboard option?
I'm looking at this card mainly because I've been rocking the blue-FoW plan for some time.
It was simple and easy to play, simply drop Dream Halls on the field, cast Conflux by discarding something blue (the deck was mainly blue), then grab yourself another conflux, O-ring, Worldfire, Sulfuric Vortex and another choice to discard to DH to cast your pieces.
From memory I had to actually cast COnflux twice to get all the pieces on the battlefield.
It was dumb, easy to disrupt of course, but kinda fun. Also, given that most of the deck was otherwise blue filter-types, it was fairly reliable in finding/casting DH on T5.
Yeah that's pretty much what I was gonna say.
Being 5cmc hurts how you build the deck - Phyrexian Metamorph stays with mono-white potentially. I'd get in some Soul Warden-types, as it means your opponents have to question whether playing a creature on their turns is a good play or not....
I'm with FGC - I'd personally cut the Spine of Ish Sah to 1 or 2, and up the disks to 4.
Disk arrives earlier in the game, potentially enabling your Priest of Yawgmoth's earlier. Black decks running a set of disks and ways to recur them can be oppressive, but I'm not sure how this would fit with Hex.
(I stopped playing with hex a while ago once my group started frequently playing with Dense Foliage-type perms.)
I would consider cutting Diabolic Tutor entirely for some Expedition Map to find your combo &/or Coffers. I always use at least 2 to 3 Coffers in my black ramp decks so I can use my tutor for other things. Since tutoring for land is a possibility, maybe another singleton like Rogue's Passage?
Lastly, since you're playing with Bloodghast, have you considered something like Ashnod's Altar?
If you're aiming to setup your Priests to cast a Spine or something else with a higher cmc, this could get you there.
I was looking at him - but being a $10 card, and I own a full set of Griselbrand & Rune-scarred Demon already, this fella doesn't really strike me as something I need. I'm gonna wait on this one and see where the price goes, it IS a strong choice!
So I'm looking at Neheb, the Eternal.
Part of me has written this off as too cute to be useful, but the other part of me says "Wow! That's a lot of potential"
Being post-combat, we can use *anything* to hurt our opponents in order to gain substantial mana, starting with the upkeep phase, which is very flexible considering how easy red perms, and non-perms alike, can deal damage to multiple opponents quickly.
Purphoros, God of the Forge would love this guy, but is Neheb even necessary here anyway?
Outside Purph is where I'm looking FWIW, as that card is getting crazy expensive for a MP card.
Opinions?
Lurching Rotbeast for my Living Death deck.
Hour of Promise
Ramunap Excavator
Wildfire Eternal strikes me as a removal magnet, but it looks like fun
Torment of Hailfire
I may just wait on a few of these as some are bound to come down, although I'm not sure about Ramunap Excavator - being just a unique card it may just go up.
This.
Filled with the right non-creature cards, this deck can combo out and win on the spot once you untap with either this or Guttersnipe on the board. It's been done in my group already, and I reckon there's a good chance no one is gonna stand for it again....
My groups tend to play a lot of sweepers, so it had me wondering...
CHeers
You're dead right.
Cultivate just happens to be what I have free. My sets of Skyshroud Claim's & Explosive Vegetation are in other decks.
However without a rampant growth, you're waiting until T4 to play a ramp spell, meaning that you're playing ramp to play a 5cmc spell on turn 5.
I may just straight swap Cultivate for Nature's Lore, but I'll have to test it out without Breeding Pool (I don't own any).
Agree with all the above. A previous version of the my deck was pretty much your first line. Like I said above, the combo part was fine, getting enough damage through before a sweeper takes away my tokens was something else, in previous large FFA's. My take on the deck isn't perfect by any means, but I'm tryin to aim towards a design that allows MS to both create an army that can take down an entire table, without going infinite, and can attack before someone can play a sorcery-speed sweep.
Strategic Planning isn't a card I've tried before. Not a bad option.
I've also played variations of the deck extensively against a variety of opponents in small and large FFA's.
The deck I listed above has been playtested.
I don't own Mystical Tutor and I'm unlikely to buy any, bit pricey for a banned card I can't play in legacy.
My initial version was full of *replacement* cards like Frantic Search, Snap etc. See previous thread....
Temporal Trespass is a card I've used in this deck before, and I realise it's good.
The reason I've been trying out other *extra-turn* cards is because TT exiles itself, and exiles a fair portion of the grave.
Not a big issue obviously - but I had quite a few "big" turns where I just couldn't get the job done against a large FFA table. Some token decks create a problem for this deck as it can be difficult to get the damage through on occasion, so being able to have 4 or 5 extra turns in a row, to create an insurmountable army is where I'm heading with this.
My thought is that MS can possibly exile itself to net back all your extra-turn card(s) in a pinch, enabling that line of play if draw cards aren't doing enough. That's why Throng is in there, because it goes to the grave and I can get it back again.
Notorious Throng isn't Time Warp, but I don't own them. NT has worked just fine for creating tokens in this deck too. As I'm effectively taking multiple turns in a row and smacking people each time, and X=damage dealt in a deck that creates large tokens, having a army of 20 faeries drop in a single turn has happened before.
For me, I want the deck to swarm quickly and swing. I realise the combo version is quicker, but unless you can immediately connect and kill your opponents in your combo turn, sweepers may quickly take away any advantage you may have had.
....And I expect to see sweepers played fairly regularly.