These represent the divergence between a straight aggressive plan or going a little bigger into Stompy territory. Mixing the two deckbuilding philosophies results in something unfocused and schizophrenic. An extreme example would be mixing things like Woodweaver's Puzzleknot and Scythe Leopard. Putting things that work directly against one another's game plan like that is going to lead to a bad time. On the whole I would say the Stompy deck is a better choice. The 1 drops just don't have enough power to support true aggro and Atarka's Command is a thing of the past.
Consider replacing Filigree Familiar with Scrapheap Scrounger. It's an artifact for Ishkanah and other delirium but it also is good to mill or discard and makes Prized Amalgams even better. I know that it is 2 instead of 3 for emerge but the upside does seem worthwhile.
Unless you play Torrential Gearhulk, which I think will somewhat warp your deck construction, I don't know that blue offers enough to your strategy. I suppose I can also support using Glimmer of Genius to support a greedy manabase with Aether Hub. But in general, white and black seem to be the premiere control colors with Grasp, Unmaking, Skywhaler's Shot, Fumigate, Liliana, Ob Nix, and/or Sorin. Chandra is a nice payoff for a Mardu deck.
You must know something about that card the rest of us don't if you are suggesting constructing your deck specifically to answer it. I would understand if you meant artifacts in general, but just Aetherworks Marvel?
I like the deck. I think Torrential Gearhulk will likely dictate several control decks in the future. As for the use of your energy, you can play 2 Die Young to ensure it's a 2 cmc kill spell in the mid game. However I would probably just ignore the energy or play 2 Confiscation Coup as you suggested. You can't afford to make it enough of a theme to get a real reward like Era of Innovation.
As this deck has moved away from control in its recent iterations, I think I will stop posting in this forum. I have joined the B/x zombies thread even though it hurts me that some of the members legitimately want to sleeve up Wailing Ghoul.
In your most recent list (in this thread) you don't have Gisa and Geralf included, rather going for a more madness based/instant speed theme. What did you cut to make room for them?
I like Just the Wind to better enable Haunted Dead as I advocated before but it just didn't have a real effect on many games. Just like Compelling Deterrence, it was cut because of the opportunity cost. When I accepted that Voldaren Pariah's madness cost was totally reasonable to pay I liked the card better. Most recent list:
I admit this is not really control anymore. This is an ordinary midrange deck that has a large instant speed component and can rebuild from boardwipes well.
Third game was against a really pants Dragon deck. Problem is, once Thunderbreak Regent and Mirrorwing Dragon are out, they're really hard to get rid of, especially with very little in the air. Two 6 damage Burn from Within finished it off quite quickly, not much you can do against those...
Weaknesses to the deck are obviously air support, lack of a heavy hitter and speed. Hopefully I can find a spot for Elder Deep-Fiend as it needs some way to push through with all the 2/2s. And four Grasp of Darkness or even Ultimate Price. I don't know if I want to drop Liliana, The Last Hope, not sure what she gives me...
Also @Seifer I'm on literally the same list except -1 Voldaren Pariah -1 Wharf Infiltrator -1 Sinister Concoction -1 Murder -2 Island +2 Gisa and Geralf +1 Dark Salvation +1 Just the Wind +2 Swamp
So yeah I'm glad we agree. I didn't believe in Pariah maindeck until I tried it. The thing that pushed it way over the top for me was using it instant speed with Cryptbreaker or Jace and flipping immediately when they tap out.
You should definitely try Gisa and Geralf. It flips Jaces immediately, puts instants and sorceries there for him, puts Prized Amalgams and Haunted Deads in the grave, gives you more options with Liliana, and allows you to recast any zombie from the grave and thereby bring back Prized Amalgam (most often Cryptbreaker). It's also the best tool the list has for rebuilding after a boardwipe.
@Siefer, with all those discards, I really wonder if you won't run too quickly out of fuel, before Haunted Dead can jumps into a graveyard.
I think you misunderstand that part of the big reason to play the discard outlets is just to put Haunted Dead and Prized Amalgam in the grave. What's more, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and Cryptbreaker are automatically nuetral on card advantage since they give you a draw and a body respectively. Although Cryptbreaker debatably only gives you an instant speed Grizzly Bears, he also draws you cards later. Combine that with madness cards like Gisa's Bidding and Voldaren Pariah and you actually generate card advantage.
It is true that these versions can be somewhat soft to sweepers but planeswalkers like Jace, Telepath Unbound and Liliana, the Last Hope help can ease that problem a lot. Another way to deal with that is Gisa and Geralf, which has really excelled for me anyways.
Dead Weight as I said is only brought in against Aggro where they overload on 2/1s. It's critical to interact with that deck early and be mana efficient. Dead Weight also combines well with Liliana, the Last Hope to take down X/3s like Sylvan Advocate. Todd Stevens claimed he was "happy" to be playing a full 4 copies at SCG Columbus.
Aren't you going to run out of cards in your hand real quick in that deck?
And once you're out of cards it'll be really hard to keep fuelling the prized amalgrams/Haunted Dead (or even Cryptbreaker).
Also any such deck which creates zombie tokens for cheap could do with a Westvale Abbey (maybe two if you don't need the coloured mana). The ability to lay down a lategame threat just can't be ignored.
Also I don't see much point in dead weight/negate in the sideboard. Ruinous path/more duress are just more useful. (If you board in duress you want 4 of them so you have a big chance of getting a t1 duress).
Running out of cards is a valid concern; the answer is yes and no. Yes, the deck runs low on cards in your hand as the game moves further along. However the deck continues having plenty to do by drawing cards with Cryptbreaker, returning creatures from the grave with Liliana, the Last Hope, and reusing spells with Jace, Telepath Unbound.
Westvale Abbey is an excellent card that I love dearly but this deck seems to be quite sensitive to not having enough black mana (although it's better since I cut Relentless Dead). It still may be worth adding a few copies.
I think you're on point with a lot of your analysis, and my list is fairly similar.
Some thoughts:
We're absolutely a mid-game/control deck. This deck is at it's best when it's playing at instant speed.
I've found myself wanting hard removal versus bounce most of the time. We're a bit grindy and I don't think we can afford to use our resources just for tempo.
Submerged Boneyard is probably better than at least a couple of your islands. We're super black mana hungry, especially with Pariah.
Regarding Pariah, I really want 3-4 copies of her in the main. In addition to the strength of Cryptbreaker and Dark Salvation, I think the Haunted Dead+Amalgam+Pariah interactions are the backbone of the deck. It can all happen at instant speed, gets around Selfless Spirit and Avacyn, and leaves you with a 6/5 flyer on board. It's unreal good.
I agree on most of your thoughts. This is an instant speed midrange deck first and foremost. I also would rather be playing hard removal but I play Just the Wind primarily to power up Cryptbreaker, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, and Haunted Dead. There's nothing else with madness besides Murderous Compulsion, which misses too much for my taste. Just the Wind is also nice because it increases my cheap interaction so that I don't die to a flurry of tempo cards. However Compelling Deterrence could probably be cut if you wanted. Submerged Boneyard would be pretty important if I was trying to main deck Relentless Dead or Voldaren Pariah, but I'm not.
Which brings me to my last point: I don't necessarily agree about Voldaren Pariah. It's a good card but there's an enormous amount of instant speed removal in the format, and I don't want to sacrifice 3 creatures to lose to a Fiery Impulse. That makes me prefer it as a sideboard card.
I'm being a bit thick, can someone explain how the whole Haunted Dead/Amalgam/Pariah works?
Chikokuman explained the exact interaction quite well so I won't repeat what he said. But in a more general sense I'll share the advantages I see while playing it since the whole thing was a bit counterintuitive to me at first.
Basically Haunted Dead starts as card disadvantage. You use 2 cards to get 1 card back. But I would count it as mana advantage since you spend 1B to get a 2/2 and a spirit, which is a good deal.
Next you add any madness card or card that works well in the graveyard and you get card advantage nuetral, 2 cards for 2 cards. Using Just the Wind or Gisa's Bidding to return Haunted Dead and then paying the madness cost costs you 1BU for Haunted Dead, a spirit, and an unsummon and 3BB for Haunted Dead, a spirit, and 2 zombies respectively. Both of these are good mana advantage.
Finally, if you have a Prized Amalgam in your hand or graveyard, the interaction becomes card advantage nuetral and very positive mana advantage. 1B and 2 cards for Haunted Dead, Prized Amalgam, and a spirit. This is an extreme discount and the reason why I've begun playing these cards.
If you ever get 2 of these things combined you start generating card advantage. For instance, discarding a land and a Gisa's Bidding to Haunted Dead with a Prized Amalgam in the graveyard is 3BB for a Haunted Dead, Prized Amalgam, 2 zombies, and a spirit. This is card advantage and mana advantage positive and is easily assembled by playing a normal game of Magic.
Sorry for the essay. Tl;dr zombies are great in every way.
If you have a million mana and play a million creatures, you're better off playing cards that are better in a variety of positions. For example, I suspect Decimator of the Provinces has a similar effect on the opponent's life total but leaves you with a 7/7 instead of nothing. That way you aren't subject to as much variance either. You might dump 7 mana into Liliana's Indignation and hit only 2 creatures. With Decimator you get a minimum of a 7/7 body for your mana expended.
If you post builds that get a lot of views but no response you should not blame the community. People either don't think your deck is as good as you do or you are not expressing yourself properly. There are plenty of original builds on this site.
You need to cut something for more creatures if you want to play Collected Company (source: I'm a Coco player). The card is a stone cold killer but only if it can reliably hit. If you only get 1 creature or miss entirely you can just lose on the spot. The minimum I would run is 25. 26- 28 creatures is the sweet spot.
IMO the deck should either start with
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Bristling Hydra
4 Verdurous Gearhulk
or
4 Kessig Prowler
4 Smuggler's Copter
2+ Fleetwheel Cruiser
Both lists should have 4 Voltaic Brawler and 4 Lathnu Hellion.
These represent the divergence between a straight aggressive plan or going a little bigger into Stompy territory. Mixing the two deckbuilding philosophies results in something unfocused and schizophrenic. An extreme example would be mixing things like Woodweaver's Puzzleknot and Scythe Leopard. Putting things that work directly against one another's game plan like that is going to lead to a bad time. On the whole I would say the Stompy deck is a better choice. The 1 drops just don't have enough power to support true aggro and Atarka's Command is a thing of the past.
The only thing I've seen that I liked in blue is Empyrial Voyager, which I would play only with 4 Verdurous Gearhulk.
You must know something about that card the rest of us don't if you are suggesting constructing your deck specifically to answer it. I would understand if you meant artifacts in general, but just Aetherworks Marvel?
Here is my most recent build.
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Haunted Dead
4 Prized Amalgam
2 Gisa and Geralf
3 Voldaren Pariah
4 Grasp of Darkness
3 Gisa's Bidding
3 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Negate
4 Sunken Hollow
4 Island
12 Swamp
I like Just the Wind to better enable Haunted Dead as I advocated before but it just didn't have a real effect on many games. Just like Compelling Deterrence, it was cut because of the opportunity cost. When I accepted that Voldaren Pariah's madness cost was totally reasonable to pay I liked the card better. Most recent list:
4 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Haunted Dead
4 Prized Amalgam
2 Gisa and Geralf
3 Voldaren Pariah
4 Grasp of Darkness
3 Gisa's Bidding
3 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Negate
4 Sunken Hollow
4 Island
12 Swamp
I admit this is not really control anymore. This is an ordinary midrange deck that has a large instant speed component and can rebuild from boardwipes well.
Very little in the air you say? Can't deal with opposing creatures? Don't want to target Thunderbreak Regent or Mirrorwing Dragon?
So yeah I'm glad we agree. I didn't believe in Pariah maindeck until I tried it. The thing that pushed it way over the top for me was using it instant speed with Cryptbreaker or Jace and flipping immediately when they tap out.
You should definitely try Gisa and Geralf. It flips Jaces immediately, puts instants and sorceries there for him, puts Prized Amalgams and Haunted Deads in the grave, gives you more options with Liliana, and allows you to recast any zombie from the grave and thereby bring back Prized Amalgam (most often Cryptbreaker). It's also the best tool the list has for rebuilding after a boardwipe.
I think you misunderstand that part of the big reason to play the discard outlets is just to put Haunted Dead and Prized Amalgam in the grave. What's more, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and Cryptbreaker are automatically nuetral on card advantage since they give you a draw and a body respectively. Although Cryptbreaker debatably only gives you an instant speed Grizzly Bears, he also draws you cards later. Combine that with madness cards like Gisa's Bidding and Voldaren Pariah and you actually generate card advantage.
It is true that these versions can be somewhat soft to sweepers but planeswalkers like Jace, Telepath Unbound and Liliana, the Last Hope help can ease that problem a lot. Another way to deal with that is Gisa and Geralf, which has really excelled for me anyways.
It is very possible Transgress the Mind is better than Duress. It's also something that can be brought in against Spell Queller and Collected Company decks. That's a good swap.
Running out of cards is a valid concern; the answer is yes and no. Yes, the deck runs low on cards in your hand as the game moves further along. However the deck continues having plenty to do by drawing cards with Cryptbreaker, returning creatures from the grave with Liliana, the Last Hope, and reusing spells with Jace, Telepath Unbound.
Westvale Abbey is an excellent card that I love dearly but this deck seems to be quite sensitive to not having enough black mana (although it's better since I cut Relentless Dead). It still may be worth adding a few copies.
Voldaren Pariah vs. Spell Queller decks. Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet, Dead Weight, and Grasp of Darkness vs. Aggro. Risen Executioner, Duress, and Negate vs. Control.
I agree on most of your thoughts. This is an instant speed midrange deck first and foremost. I also would rather be playing hard removal but I play Just the Wind primarily to power up Cryptbreaker, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, and Haunted Dead. There's nothing else with madness besides Murderous Compulsion, which misses too much for my taste. Just the Wind is also nice because it increases my cheap interaction so that I don't die to a flurry of tempo cards. However Compelling Deterrence could probably be cut if you wanted. Submerged Boneyard would be pretty important if I was trying to main deck Relentless Dead or Voldaren Pariah, but I'm not.
Which brings me to my last point: I don't necessarily agree about Voldaren Pariah. It's a good card but there's an enormous amount of instant speed removal in the format, and I don't want to sacrifice 3 creatures to lose to a Fiery Impulse. That makes me prefer it as a sideboard card.
Chikokuman explained the exact interaction quite well so I won't repeat what he said. But in a more general sense I'll share the advantages I see while playing it since the whole thing was a bit counterintuitive to me at first.
Basically Haunted Dead starts as card disadvantage. You use 2 cards to get 1 card back. But I would count it as mana advantage since you spend 1B to get a 2/2 and a spirit, which is a good deal.
Next you add any madness card or card that works well in the graveyard and you get card advantage nuetral, 2 cards for 2 cards. Using Just the Wind or Gisa's Bidding to return Haunted Dead and then paying the madness cost costs you 1BU for Haunted Dead, a spirit, and an unsummon and 3BB for Haunted Dead, a spirit, and 2 zombies respectively. Both of these are good mana advantage.
Finally, if you have a Prized Amalgam in your hand or graveyard, the interaction becomes card advantage nuetral and very positive mana advantage. 1B and 2 cards for Haunted Dead, Prized Amalgam, and a spirit. This is an extreme discount and the reason why I've begun playing these cards.
If you ever get 2 of these things combined you start generating card advantage. For instance, discarding a land and a Gisa's Bidding to Haunted Dead with a Prized Amalgam in the graveyard is 3BB for a Haunted Dead, Prized Amalgam, 2 zombies, and a spirit. This is card advantage and mana advantage positive and is easily assembled by playing a normal game of Magic.
Sorry for the essay. Tl;dr zombies are great in every way.
If you post builds that get a lot of views but no response you should not blame the community. People either don't think your deck is as good as you do or you are not expressing yourself properly. There are plenty of original builds on this site.