I've very recently come back to mtg as a whole also, albeit not as long as the OP. Anywho, I left around may 2015, and at the time there were some discussions going on about the banning of Derevi in multiplayer EDH because of the change in commander tuck rule. I proxied the whole derevi deck, with the intention of buying the cards several months after it seemed safe to purchase them, until I knew she was not going to be banned. At the time everyone was "keeping an eye on her" whilst a lot of people were calling for her multiplayer edh banning. To add to the OP's question and to satiate my curiosity, what are the chances of her being banned in multiplayer edh now and how does everyone feel about her now?
I've always had a derevi deck sitting there (super budget, like only $100 value) as one of my many back up decks for when i need to mix things up from playing mono-U, and I've been thinking of adding another 100 or 200 to the deck to make it much better. I was skimming over some builds and directions the commander can go when I came across the famous back-breaking stax version. Anywho, long story short; I saw several cards in there that I didnt quite get why they were included over other cards. An example list which is one of many is this one by cobblepot:
Theres several more but not included in this build. I'm obviously missing something; I just don't understand how these are more worth running than other option. What exactly makes these cards worth running over thousands of other option in derevi?
I miss 2014's draw-go viability of Teferi, mage of zhalfir as the commander, and seeing as theres much faster mana ramp in the form of new rocks, more time magic prints and lands that tap for multiple mana since 2014; I was thinking about the viability of Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur as a draw go commander. How viable would such a General and 99 be if it contained the following:
Am i looking too far into this? Maybe I should just jump on the teferi, temporal archmage bandwagon? My meta has a decent amount of aggro and Teferi PW would die in a single turn cycle so it kind of turns me away from him. Exactly where does a Jin deck fall in competitiveness compared to tier 1 commanders and tier 2 commanders if it is hyper-tuned to stall, ramp, cast, then control for-the-win?
Does anyone have any experiences using this card? How effective is it? Is it worse than it seems, or? Is there something I'm missing? It seems like a massive blowout in a mono-red deck being used in a developed meta. If the red user were to slow the game down with tangle wire etc then opponents would take maybe 10 damage each at the very least in the end-game? Just wondering if its a worthy fireball in a developed meta using heaps of non-basics for dual/tri/five color and still does a hefty amount of damage to mono colored decks who are running lots of non-basics too (as most mono-colored decks do once starting to become optimized/noteworthy). Obviously this would be ran with ruination, blood moon, magus of the moon etc while using mountains as most mono-red decks do.
TL;DR: is Price of Progress a worthy card to run in a developed meta where non-basics are abundant, while you use mountains? Or is the slot better used for something else?
I have a pretty extensive knowledge of the card base for EDH, but I could have easily overlooked several cards or underestimate the power of certain cards. So just to put the purpose of the thread into perspective, what are some cards in each color and combination that have at least a 95% chance of ending the game on the spot if not countered (for example insurrection and debt to the deathless? I suppose single targeted "elimate target player" work too (like hatred and tainted strike for example).
Glad to see you're going ahead with it OP (better late than never). I suppose waiting a full year before you buy/construct is a good idea. Captain Sisay is one of those commanders that will only ever get stronger and more "swiss army knife"-ish as time goes on. I do have two things to say that I highly recommend though...
Firstly, does this sound good to you?:
G: Destroy target land. (repeat as many times as you like, whenever you like)
Secondly, I recommend getting gaea's cradle last. I personally never found cradle to be essential in sisay, simply because she plays legendary creatures which don't really focus on tokens, but rather a singular legend. The fact of the matter is that the more legendaries you add to the deck, the more answers and hatebears there are to specific situations. Instead of a token subtheme you should probably try to capitalize on sisay's ability as much as possible. Also, before I forget; its important to note that the most competitive build (I know, I know Multi-EDH isn't competitive, but still...) is a lockdown build, which features hokori, dust drinker and ways to thrive through the mana denial so it becomes one sided.
Hey everyone, just out of curiosity, what are some interesting cards that support going mono-black that help the mono-B deck exclusively? For example, we all know about contamination in mono-B, as well as cabal coffers. I suppose I'm trying to justify why one would want to go mono-b in a more cutthroat scene.
I find the one thing that all top tier (yes, yes, tiers don't exist...) decks/generals have is that they are highly likely somewhat blue, as well as being atleast dual-color (mostly tri-colored though). I guess I'm trying to assess mono-B in general to see if it can compete with the big boys. So what other cards warrant playing mono-black, as opposed to splashing other colors?
I've only got one commander to ask of all your opinions for at the moment. I'm on the brink of making a kokusho, the evening star. What are all your psychological outlooks toward kokusho? Thanks in advance.
The bounce lands are an absolute house in Derevi, empyrial tactician. The weird thing is, I actually WANT people to waste their strip mine on it. Derevi's curve is very low, so the whole deck operates with only say 4 lands or so. Cards like land equilibrium make it very difficult for people to keep playing if they don't have derevi's curve. The bounce lands are a distraction while gaea's cradle, thawing glaciers and thespian's stage + dark depths wreck them. Unless they're playing mass land destruction targeting the bounce land isn't a good idea against derevi. Heck, even then Derevi thrives through mass land destruction so even thats a bad idea.
In a format where infinite lifegain, mass land destruction, consistent turn 3 wins and combo reigns supreme, there is nothing wrong with sorin. I'd posit that sorin is not good enough to run (magister sphinx being an exception because of entomb + reanimate shenanigans) as by turn 6 against any top tier deck you have already lost. I advise not to feel bad for playing him, but to feel bad for players who haven't already ended/controlled the game (or made good decks) and allowed you to cast him.
As for just "kitchen table" games where people are running vanilla generals and such where people want each edh game to over 90 minutes, yes, he is a silver bullet that people hate. Probably would play something more subtle. Theres nothing wrong with playing spelljack or commandeer and abusing someone else's sorin in a kitchen table game. Heck, I'd shake that guy's hand.
In your opinion, what would you say are the top 2 most effective card mechanics to winning multiplayer edh games and why? So its for a 4-6 man pod. Personally, I love flash and vigilance. I love flash because people make choices based on your board presence and such, and people never see my board presence until AFTER they make choices. I love vigilance because being able to block after I just attacked in a multiplayer setting is just a good feeling. I'm not sure if these are the two best, but they feel the two best in my opinion. In your opinion, what do you think are the two best creature/card mechanics for a multiplayer setting?
The thread was for the most part successful for identifying which commanders for mono red were the best (or among the best), their weaknesses and other interesting things the community felt about the color at the time.
Fast forward 1 year, and so much has happened to affect mono-red (and mono white too, but I digress) that it warranted recreating the thread to see how everyone is now feeling about who the top mono red commanders are and why. There has nevermore been a time where mono-red was playable with recent rule changes. Changes such as the introduction of many mono-R generals being released, the removal of the tuck rule (argueably mono-R's biggest weakness is now mitigated) and the addition of many new mono-R spells have changed mono-R drastically, thus leading to the recreation of this thread.
To start the thread off, I'd like to say that generally speaking, I love the direction mono red is going with the whole "anti-meta" thingy, with it being an anti-tutor, anti-ramp, anti-artifact, anti-creature color. So, to reiterate on the threads topic, who do you now think is (or atleast way up there) the most competitive/degenerate mono-red commander after all of these changes in mono-red and EDH in general?
I'm not gonna pretend like I have any experience playing Jeleva, but I do know a fair bit about discard.
For starters, you need to solidify whether the deck is built for multiplayer or built for 1v1. From there, we can discuss what could potentially stay in, and what should really be taken out. As far as rakdos's return goes, its terrible in multiplayer, and not amazing by any means in 1v1.
Also, keep syphon mind in. its argueably on par with skullclamp and is borderline strictly better than fact or fiction, unless playing in a 3 man pod or smaller. With jeleva, you shouldn't be playing any spells with x in their cost anyway, but rather things like cabal conditioning for example if you want discard. Why were you even using jeleva in the first place for discard? Also, if you're moving away from discard, what are you now leaning towards? General goodstuff.dec or another particular type of card/strategy?
If medomai deals direct damage to a player, you: -untap all permanents you control
-have an extra upkeep step
-draw a card
-play another land
-have an extra main phase
-have an extra battle phase (he can't attack during this though)
-have another main phase again
You want to use cards that abuse what medomai can do. Using cards like magus of the disk and nevinyrral's disk would normally not be as effective compared to O-stone for reasons that have already been mentioned, but because of the "extra untap stap" you get with medomai, it almost certainly makes them better over o-stone. All-in-all, play to medomai's strengths and you should be fine.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/14-10-15-derevi-prison/
The above is one of many derevi-stax decks running the cards that I'm talking about. The cards i'm talking about are the following:
Sphere of resistance
thorn of amethyst
trinisphere
vryn wingmare
thalia, guardian of thraben
maybe even lodestone golem
Theres several more but not included in this build. I'm obviously missing something; I just don't understand how these are more worth running than other option. What exactly makes these cards worth running over thousands of other option in derevi?
-Time magic:
capture of jingzhou
time warp
temporal manipulation
part the waterveil
walk the aeons
beacon of tomorrows
temporal mastery
temporal trespass
time stretch
-expensive rocks such as mana crypt et al.
-maybe lands that tap for 2 such as ancient tomb, tomb of the false god, shrine of the forsaken gods, vesuva (CITP as 2 mana), myriad landscape, thespian's stage (as 2 mana), nykthos, shrine to nyx
-adding cards to the 99 that stall the game reaching 10 mana easier such as tangle wire and board wipes for example
-Running the almost-mandatory force of will, pact of negation, foil, commandeer, misdirection etc to ensure he sticks when hes cast
Am i looking too far into this? Maybe I should just jump on the teferi, temporal archmage bandwagon? My meta has a decent amount of aggro and Teferi PW would die in a single turn cycle so it kind of turns me away from him. Exactly where does a Jin deck fall in competitiveness compared to tier 1 commanders and tier 2 commanders if it is hyper-tuned to stall, ramp, cast, then control for-the-win?
-
TL;DR: is Price of Progress a worthy card to run in a developed meta where non-basics are abundant, while you use mountains? Or is the slot better used for something else?
Firstly, does this sound good to you?:
G: Destroy target land. (repeat as many times as you like, whenever you like)
If it does, add elesh norn, grand cenobite and kamahl, fist of krosa to the sisay deck. Simply tutor both, play both, and proceed to wreck enemy manabases.
Secondly, I recommend getting gaea's cradle last. I personally never found cradle to be essential in sisay, simply because she plays legendary creatures which don't really focus on tokens, but rather a singular legend. The fact of the matter is that the more legendaries you add to the deck, the more answers and hatebears there are to specific situations. Instead of a token subtheme you should probably try to capitalize on sisay's ability as much as possible. Also, before I forget; its important to note that the most competitive build (I know, I know Multi-EDH isn't competitive, but still...) is a lockdown build, which features hokori, dust drinker and ways to thrive through the mana denial so it becomes one sided.
I find the one thing that all top tier (yes, yes, tiers don't exist...) decks/generals have is that they are highly likely somewhat blue, as well as being atleast dual-color (mostly tri-colored though). I guess I'm trying to assess mono-B in general to see if it can compete with the big boys. So what other cards warrant playing mono-black, as opposed to splashing other colors?
As for just "kitchen table" games where people are running vanilla generals and such where people want each edh game to over 90 minutes, yes, he is a silver bullet that people hate. Probably would play something more subtle. Theres nothing wrong with playing spelljack or commandeer and abusing someone else's sorin in a kitchen table game. Heck, I'd shake that guy's hand.
The thread was for the most part successful for identifying which commanders for mono red were the best (or among the best), their weaknesses and other interesting things the community felt about the color at the time.
Fast forward 1 year, and so much has happened to affect mono-red (and mono white too, but I digress) that it warranted recreating the thread to see how everyone is now feeling about who the top mono red commanders are and why. There has nevermore been a time where mono-red was playable with recent rule changes. Changes such as the introduction of many mono-R generals being released, the removal of the tuck rule (argueably mono-R's biggest weakness is now mitigated) and the addition of many new mono-R spells have changed mono-R drastically, thus leading to the recreation of this thread.
To start the thread off, I'd like to say that generally speaking, I love the direction mono red is going with the whole "anti-meta" thingy, with it being an anti-tutor, anti-ramp, anti-artifact, anti-creature color. So, to reiterate on the threads topic, who do you now think is (or atleast way up there) the most competitive/degenerate mono-red commander after all of these changes in mono-red and EDH in general?
For starters, you need to solidify whether the deck is built for multiplayer or built for 1v1. From there, we can discuss what could potentially stay in, and what should really be taken out. As far as rakdos's return goes, its terrible in multiplayer, and not amazing by any means in 1v1.
Also, keep syphon mind in. its argueably on par with skullclamp and is borderline strictly better than fact or fiction, unless playing in a 3 man pod or smaller. With jeleva, you shouldn't be playing any spells with x in their cost anyway, but rather things like cabal conditioning for example if you want discard. Why were you even using jeleva in the first place for discard? Also, if you're moving away from discard, what are you now leaning towards? General goodstuff.dec or another particular type of card/strategy?
-Basilisk Legendary
-Berserker Legendary
-Chimera Legendary
-Crocodile Legendary
-Devil Legendary
-Efreet Legendary
-gargoyle Legendary
-Leech Legendary
-A decent ninja Legendary
-Phoenix Legendary
-A better than "meh" samurai Legendary
-Scorpion Legendary
-wolf Legendary
-werewolf Legendary
-wraith Legendary
-spider Legendary
-many other not so obvious tribes/subtypes
In fact, its really weird that we don't have any of these. Someone over at WotC needs to be fired so we can get actual creative card designers.
If medomai deals direct damage to a player, you:
-untap all permanents you control
-have an extra upkeep step
-draw a card
-play another land
-have an extra main phase
-have an extra battle phase (he can't attack during this though)
-have another main phase again
You want to use cards that abuse what medomai can do. Using cards like magus of the disk and nevinyrral's disk would normally not be as effective compared to O-stone for reasons that have already been mentioned, but because of the "extra untap stap" you get with medomai, it almost certainly makes them better over o-stone. All-in-all, play to medomai's strengths and you should be fine.