Talk is cheap. You've identified a major problem with the format, so do something about it? On the off chance you do read this,everyone is looking at you to make aggro a viable option. So just... Make the changes? Start with the cards that are doing exactly what you're saying; laboratory maniac, isochron scepter, ad nauseam and food chain for example?
Ooooh boy I love when these threads pop up. They really show peoples' knowledge of EDH and how aware/unaware they are of how broken the format truly is. To my core I don't believe the format can be treated as "competitive" in the slightest, therefore cEDH is a bit of a joke to me, albeit that's because the RC has made it this way.
Nevertheless this is my view on the topic; pretty much everything that is banned should stay banned because I'd break them if they left the banlist. As for what to ban...
Fast mana. Game can't really feel like skill is involved when you lose to someone before you play a second land. Thats just RNG. Who likes losing to RNG?! If I had to pick which exactly to ban I'd say its the cEDH's Power4 (Sol Ring, mana crypt, mox diamond and chrome mox). Banning mana vault after that couldn't hurt either. Once the fast mana is taken out we'd have meaning ful interactions with one another, not "race and ignore your opponents" type meta
Thrasios, Triton Hero: This slimy bastard is everywhere. When half the players at your LGS and many other cEDH circles play this little guy you know the RC has failed. He single handedly is putting a strangehold on the entire meta and is forcing everyone to build around him and compare their speed against his. Tymna the weaver just makes him even more broken. If your aim is to win, why build anything else?
Ad Nauseam: Most broken card in edh. Hands down. Who thought allowing "Pay 5 mana, win the game" would be a good idea? Either ban this silly card or lower life totals to 30 IMO. To be honest, i feel like lowering life totals to 30 would be the healthiest change to ever come to edh as it would allow aggro to be competitive and actually playable against combo. Maybe.
Flash. This with Protean hulk says "Pay 2 mana; win the game". Some mong really dropped the ball allowing this one to be legal. Coming across this makes you question who makes the rules for this game.
aetherflux reservoir: Probably an unpopular opinion I'll admit, but I feel like this was just too good of a weapon for storm decks. It made them go from highly playable to straight up "EDH is a game of combo". Its too good. Ban it IMO. Let em go back to tendrils of agony and mind's desire etc etc
Food chain: Tazri has become too consistent now and theres always gonna be commanders that will make the card say "pay 3 mana, get infinite mana". Just ban it to prevent further abuse.
Laboratory maniac: No, its not fancy. No, it takes no skill to do a setup with it. Doomsday for example says "pay 3 mana, win the game" with labman being legal. Its not fun to play against, takes not much skill to pull off after a little bit of practice and is just really unhealthy for competitive play in general. Ban this and it'll fix a lot of problems.
The chain veil: Card by itself is fine but combined with teferi, temporal archmage the card is beyond broken. Its format warping and should have been banned years ago.
Theres roughly 10 more format-warping cards but i'd say these are the obvious ones. Theres always going to be strong cards, but sometimes cards can be so broken when built correctly that it can make edh commander-selection feel like 15 commanders to pick from instead of 870+. No card should EVER say "Pay X; Win if no response"... Its just not fun after the first time for many, many people. I mean, you gotta remember this question is subjective too, so someone could come along and say I'm completely wrong and that winning on turn 3 consistantly is extremely fun and skill-based. Everyones different and theres gonna be a lot of differing opinions on this topic. Hopefully this little response gives you an idea of just my viewpoint on this anywho
To elaborate; what are some of the best counterspells that work around uncounterability? Specifically, cavern of souls and boseiju, who shelters all. Cards like time stop don't exactly count per se as theres a massive 4UU in the top right corner, but things like mindbreak trap I imagine would be great against storm decks for example. Thanks in advance for any input.
First of all, I'd like to say its great that we're starting one of these threads as I remember referring to Rockondon's thread when I was first getting into EDH and I remember how much it helped me as a newcomer.
1) Best Multiplayer combo commander: Its the undisputed fastest clock with a great degree of control and consistency to boot; Zur the enchanter for sure. 2) Best Multiplayer control commander: I'd say Derevi, empyrial tactician Stax. The whole deck isn't designed to win; its designed to stop your opponents from winning while you attack with hatebears. 3) Best Multiplayer aggro commander: Purphoros, god of the forge if going for an aggro full-table knock-out. Xenagos, god of revels for the best aggro burst commander. 4) Most fun commander to play in Multiplayer: easily Norin the wary. Watching your opponents go from laughing to horrified in minutes is gold. Everytime. 5) Most fun commander to play against in Multiplayer: Lazav, dimir mastermind. Every game is different VSing this guy. 6) Best 1v1 commander (Traditional): don't know. only play multiplayer. 7) Best 1v1 commander (Duel / French): see above. 8) Best Pauper commander: see above 9) Best Tiny Leaders commander: see above 10) Best Horde commander: see above
Every single mono-U deck I create includes Invoke prejudice.
-The artwork is highly racist
-The name of the card is saying to spread racism
-What it actually does IS racist to everyone who isn't playing blue (Punishes everyone for not being your kind)
-The guy who created the artwork was actually a neo-nazi (believed in nazi ideology) and was found to have many other racist artworks in his possession
This card is worth every penny just for the reactions people make when they see it. Its mono-U's jerk-like nature all in just one card!
Edric weenie control isn't really my playstyle me thinks. I'm the type of player to summon an eldrazi and protect it with countermagic, rather than swarm opponents. I suppose my inner timmy just wants to see giant things do giant damage.
Has anyone played oona (with or against) in the last 12 or so months? How much is she hated? I really think a mono-U oona might be what I'm looking for. I could build it in a way that could satisfy the above criteria, but I'm not sure where she fits in terms of hate.
One other thing, how do people view combo-wins these days in edh? Is there more salt when people combo out compared to a year ago or do you guys feel combo isn't groaned about as much (even if its a small amount)? Might be a stupid question, but with commanders like prossh and ilk being released over the last 18 months, combo had been more prevalent in EDH. Just curious.
I got a feeling that the new jace's first ability will be like "+2: everyone draws a card". Or even worse "+1: each opponent mills 5" or some other useless ability. I'll wait before I purchase any cards and/or create a new deck, but judging from that liliana, I'm expecting an incredibly underpowered jace that is seriously not designed for any EDH play.
On a side note, I've been thinking that I might merge all my Blue goodstuff with some white, making a ephara-instant/flash deck (atleast thats what I'm going to do most likely).
Hey guys. I'm quite new to this format and I was hoping some people could give the pros and cons of a few generals I was looking at:
The Mimeoplasm
Kresh the bloodbraided
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
Sen Triplets
Zur the Enchanter
Mayael the Anima
Marath, Will of the Wild
This is quite a diverse list because I'm willing to play all different types of generals as long as they are fun to play with and against. My meta group is quite casual and frown upon infinite combos and land destruction, unless it is very hard to point together and/or very creative. I may also on a budget of around $100 so that may change for choice. Any input would be much appreciated.
I feel, for the most part; the answer depends on budget. There are some commanders here that are very good for 100 dollars, but are not as good when you want to start spending/upgrading on the deck. Commanders like zur, cost atleast 300ish before they start curb stomping, but before that they feel a bit "meh". Since you are new to the format, you also have to consider a commander that islonglasting fun and one where you won't regret your decision on choosing. Here a tidbit of my subjective opinions/experiences with each:
1. the mimeoplasm can be downright broken (turn 3 wins) when built correctly. Its needs about a budget of atleast 300 to start doing really stupid things. With 100 though? he'd be a generic "clone-your-stuff" guy and it would be rather fun to play against.
2. kresh the bloodbraided as far as I know, kresh lends himself to the whole staxy-voltron strategy best of all, but I can't say for sure (haven't seen a kresh in a very long time). I've always felt like kresh doesn't know whether he wants to be a voltron or stax commander, and is split between the two playstyles. If you're gonna go down the stax route you my aswell just play shattergang brothers. I feel kresh is too easily disrupted by control, but like I said, I don't have much experience playing with or against him so yeah.
3. prossh, skyraider of kher is really, really good on a low,med or high budget. 100 might be just enough to get the "main" peices for him, with a few budget options thrown in. Overall, seems like a solid choice imo
4. sen triplets. It doesn't really matter how much you spend on the deck really, as you'll want to be playing opponent's cards anyway. On a really low budget in a med budget meta, this guy might be your answer. Just buy all the defensive dollar cards like condemn etc. aswell as protection for the commander and you're set.
5. zur the enchanter: I would seriously consider crossing him off your list. Unless you're spending atleast 500, he gets hated out so quickly its not even funny. He needs the money cards to protect himself quickly enough and effeciantly enough, or else he can;t handle the aggression/control.
6. mayael the anima: can be quite fun and be built on a budget. That being said though, if you want to upgrade the deck to get the more powerful fatties; its gonna cost ya. Just the two eldrazi cost atleast 100 alone. he great for 100, but like I said, if you're thinking about progressively adding to the deck, get another commander with more end game "oomph" or so to speak.
7. marath, will of the wild: hes a swiss army knife on a stick. Can handle most situations. People look at him as the new ghave, guru of spores. Can be built very powerfully for around 200.
Overall though, of these; I suggest either the mimeoplasm or sen triplets. Both of these commanders scale in strength depending on your playgroup's power, and as they get better/stronger, so to will the commander. Because these two commanders play opponent's cards, games for you will be VERY diverse, and not the same thing over and over like they would be in say, zur for example. I find the less linear my deck is; the more long-lasting the fun and excitement is for the deck.
OP, who is your general for this deck that you're buying cards for?
On topic: Around 15 months ago, I faced the EXACT same problem. I had 250 dollars and didn't know what to spend it on. I ended up choosing to buy Mana drain and invoke prejudice for my mono-U teferi deck. It was honestly worth it BUT if I could do it again, I would have gone with some 30-50 dollar staples instead.
All in all, take heed of what everyone is saying in this thread, but ultimately, you need to choose what would make you happiest. My advice is to print out some proxies and try it out with your friends.
1
Talk is cheap. You've identified a major problem with the format, so do something about it? On the off chance you do read this,everyone is looking at you to make aggro a viable option. So just... Make the changes? Start with the cards that are doing exactly what you're saying; laboratory maniac, isochron scepter, ad nauseam and food chain for example?
1
Nevertheless this is my view on the topic; pretty much everything that is banned should stay banned because I'd break them if they left the banlist. As for what to ban...
Fast mana. Game can't really feel like skill is involved when you lose to someone before you play a second land. Thats just RNG. Who likes losing to RNG?! If I had to pick which exactly to ban I'd say its the cEDH's Power4 (Sol Ring, mana crypt, mox diamond and chrome mox). Banning mana vault after that couldn't hurt either. Once the fast mana is taken out we'd have meaning ful interactions with one another, not "race and ignore your opponents" type meta
Thrasios, Triton Hero: This slimy bastard is everywhere. When half the players at your LGS and many other cEDH circles play this little guy you know the RC has failed. He single handedly is putting a strangehold on the entire meta and is forcing everyone to build around him and compare their speed against his. Tymna the weaver just makes him even more broken. If your aim is to win, why build anything else?
Ad Nauseam: Most broken card in edh. Hands down. Who thought allowing "Pay 5 mana, win the game" would be a good idea? Either ban this silly card or lower life totals to 30 IMO. To be honest, i feel like lowering life totals to 30 would be the healthiest change to ever come to edh as it would allow aggro to be competitive and actually playable against combo. Maybe.
Flash. This with Protean hulk says "Pay 2 mana; win the game". Some mong really dropped the ball allowing this one to be legal. Coming across this makes you question who makes the rules for this game.
aetherflux reservoir: Probably an unpopular opinion I'll admit, but I feel like this was just too good of a weapon for storm decks. It made them go from highly playable to straight up "EDH is a game of combo". Its too good. Ban it IMO. Let em go back to tendrils of agony and mind's desire etc etc
Food chain: Tazri has become too consistent now and theres always gonna be commanders that will make the card say "pay 3 mana, get infinite mana". Just ban it to prevent further abuse.
Laboratory maniac: No, its not fancy. No, it takes no skill to do a setup with it. Doomsday for example says "pay 3 mana, win the game" with labman being legal. Its not fun to play against, takes not much skill to pull off after a little bit of practice and is just really unhealthy for competitive play in general. Ban this and it'll fix a lot of problems.
The chain veil: Card by itself is fine but combined with teferi, temporal archmage the card is beyond broken. Its format warping and should have been banned years ago.
Theres roughly 10 more format-warping cards but i'd say these are the obvious ones. Theres always going to be strong cards, but sometimes cards can be so broken when built correctly that it can make edh commander-selection feel like 15 commanders to pick from instead of 870+. No card should EVER say "Pay X; Win if no response"... Its just not fun after the first time for many, many people. I mean, you gotta remember this question is subjective too, so someone could come along and say I'm completely wrong and that winning on turn 3 consistantly is extremely fun and skill-based. Everyones different and theres gonna be a lot of differing opinions on this topic. Hopefully this little response gives you an idea of just my viewpoint on this anywho
1
To elaborate; what are some of the best counterspells that work around uncounterability? Specifically, cavern of souls and boseiju, who shelters all. Cards like time stop don't exactly count per se as theres a massive 4UU in the top right corner, but things like mindbreak trap I imagine would be great against storm decks for example. Thanks in advance for any input.
1
1) Best Multiplayer combo commander: Its the undisputed fastest clock with a great degree of control and consistency to boot; Zur the enchanter for sure.
2) Best Multiplayer control commander: I'd say Derevi, empyrial tactician Stax. The whole deck isn't designed to win; its designed to stop your opponents from winning while you attack with hatebears.
3) Best Multiplayer aggro commander: Purphoros, god of the forge if going for an aggro full-table knock-out. Xenagos, god of revels for the best aggro burst commander.
4) Most fun commander to play in Multiplayer: easily Norin the wary. Watching your opponents go from laughing to horrified in minutes is gold. Everytime.
5) Most fun commander to play against in Multiplayer: Lazav, dimir mastermind. Every game is different VSing this guy.
6) Best 1v1 commander (Traditional): don't know. only play multiplayer.
7) Best 1v1 commander (Duel / French): see above.
8) Best Pauper commander: see above
9) Best Tiny Leaders commander: see above
10) Best Horde commander: see above
1
-The artwork is highly racist
-The name of the card is saying to spread racism
-What it actually does IS racist to everyone who isn't playing blue (Punishes everyone for not being your kind)
-The guy who created the artwork was actually a neo-nazi (believed in nazi ideology) and was found to have many other racist artworks in his possession
This card is worth every penny just for the reactions people make when they see it. Its mono-U's jerk-like nature all in just one card!
1
Has anyone played oona (with or against) in the last 12 or so months? How much is she hated? I really think a mono-U oona might be what I'm looking for. I could build it in a way that could satisfy the above criteria, but I'm not sure where she fits in terms of hate.
One other thing, how do people view combo-wins these days in edh? Is there more salt when people combo out compared to a year ago or do you guys feel combo isn't groaned about as much (even if its a small amount)? Might be a stupid question, but with commanders like prossh and ilk being released over the last 18 months, combo had been more prevalent in EDH. Just curious.
Thanks for the help guys.
1
On a side note, I've been thinking that I might merge all my Blue goodstuff with some white, making a ephara-instant/flash deck (atleast thats what I'm going to do most likely).
1
I feel, for the most part; the answer depends on budget. There are some commanders here that are very good for 100 dollars, but are not as good when you want to start spending/upgrading on the deck. Commanders like zur, cost atleast 300ish before they start curb stomping, but before that they feel a bit "meh". Since you are new to the format, you also have to consider a commander that islonglasting fun and one where you won't regret your decision on choosing. Here a tidbit of my subjective opinions/experiences with each:
1. the mimeoplasm can be downright broken (turn 3 wins) when built correctly. Its needs about a budget of atleast 300 to start doing really stupid things. With 100 though? he'd be a generic "clone-your-stuff" guy and it would be rather fun to play against.
2. kresh the bloodbraided as far as I know, kresh lends himself to the whole staxy-voltron strategy best of all, but I can't say for sure (haven't seen a kresh in a very long time). I've always felt like kresh doesn't know whether he wants to be a voltron or stax commander, and is split between the two playstyles. If you're gonna go down the stax route you my aswell just play shattergang brothers. I feel kresh is too easily disrupted by control, but like I said, I don't have much experience playing with or against him so yeah.
3. prossh, skyraider of kher is really, really good on a low,med or high budget. 100 might be just enough to get the "main" peices for him, with a few budget options thrown in. Overall, seems like a solid choice imo
4. sen triplets. It doesn't really matter how much you spend on the deck really, as you'll want to be playing opponent's cards anyway. On a really low budget in a med budget meta, this guy might be your answer. Just buy all the defensive dollar cards like condemn etc. aswell as protection for the commander and you're set.
5. zur the enchanter: I would seriously consider crossing him off your list. Unless you're spending atleast 500, he gets hated out so quickly its not even funny. He needs the money cards to protect himself quickly enough and effeciantly enough, or else he can;t handle the aggression/control.
6. mayael the anima: can be quite fun and be built on a budget. That being said though, if you want to upgrade the deck to get the more powerful fatties; its gonna cost ya. Just the two eldrazi cost atleast 100 alone. he great for 100, but like I said, if you're thinking about progressively adding to the deck, get another commander with more end game "oomph" or so to speak.
7. marath, will of the wild: hes a swiss army knife on a stick. Can handle most situations. People look at him as the new ghave, guru of spores. Can be built very powerfully for around 200.
Overall though, of these; I suggest either the mimeoplasm or sen triplets. Both of these commanders scale in strength depending on your playgroup's power, and as they get better/stronger, so to will the commander. Because these two commanders play opponent's cards, games for you will be VERY diverse, and not the same thing over and over like they would be in say, zur for example. I find the less linear my deck is; the more long-lasting the fun and excitement is for the deck.
1
On topic: Around 15 months ago, I faced the EXACT same problem. I had 250 dollars and didn't know what to spend it on. I ended up choosing to buy Mana drain and invoke prejudice for my mono-U teferi deck. It was honestly worth it BUT if I could do it again, I would have gone with some 30-50 dollar staples instead.
All in all, take heed of what everyone is saying in this thread, but ultimately, you need to choose what would make you happiest. My advice is to print out some proxies and try it out with your friends.