so I've had my brewers cap on this week with spoilers rolling out and it got me think with these already jeskai midrange style builds that it could be changed to a tempo style deck.
with having a somewhat aggressive creature package you could utilize spells like chart a course and even the new dovin baan.
with new spells that help with two for ones and creating early tempo with our new strictly worse mana leak and burn spells to create pressure.
so creatures that would seen excellent to fit this building would be like crackling drake, skarrgan Hellkite, or even a flash package with raff capashen, aurelia, and lyra.
I think the biggest supporter for this style.of build has to be electrodominace.
the card just creates so many two for ones or just pushes so much pressure with possibiltys or 4 to 5 damage to the dome.
what is everyone's thoughts on this? Per Standard forum rules, new cards should be discussed in New Card Discussion until full set is spoiled. Moving. Thanks! - hoser2
I feel like everyone is missing the fact the dragon says any target which means i can go to the dome or planeswalkers....
Good point.
If you give it haste, he's getting in for 4, 8, 12, 16, 20 damage starting from t0 with a one time investment of 5 mana.
If you give it a counter you get 5-7 damage (w/ pump), 10-14, 15-21 assuming left over mana is sunk into the dome starting T1.
So either choice is roughly a similar clock so it really depends on what you want. The dragon starts pulling ahead on t2 if excess mana goes to pump. Note that this can get absolutely bonkers with steamkin (or multiples). Playing with the counter yields a faster kill if you're closing out on a higher life total opponent. Shock lands can be very relevant for this, especially if we see 3 color decks pop up.
It does line up incredibly poorly with doom whisperer however. I still stand by my initial assessment on pg 1, I think the card is great. Not broken, but strong enough to see play. It's absolutely brutal against token strats if they don't have an answer for it.
well tbh doom whisperer sees sparing play as most have started cramming vivien Reid in the 5 slot. the deck that wants this will likely want both of them.
vivien reid.definitely hurts the dragons value a bitbut really vivien Reid only has value against it you are tapped out other wise it just trades with it 1 for 1.
but really red doesn't really have a good 5 drop so really it just fits right in. It probably wont see mythic prices but i feel like it's got good utility and has value for the 5 slot
Ok, Judith looks awesome, even though I normally hate the Rakdos aesthetic (horns and spikes and chains and skulls AND HORNED SKULLS ON SPIKED CHAINS!!!!11RAWR).
its heros downfall which seen tons of play. granted this restricts the decks itll see play in but assuming theres a G/R deck seeing fringe play and G/B is tier one right now surely jund will become a thing. i think grixis has always been there but this to me kinda takes it up a notch. note sure how good grixis controil would be but i could see a more midrange shell with nico bolas and ral zarek and the ilk
Its kinda evolved from green based decks I've made. Originally was strictly TH but just felt like wasn't enough umpf. Feel like March is a really good card against control late. Wait for the fallout turn or the late sweeper and just windmill slam it. Also great against midrange decks
Also I think you wanna be sort of a midrange style of stompy. Playing more removal especially early as low end aggro decks will be prevalant. 4 cast down is suitable if you can't afford the play set of assassin's trophy but I highly suggest 4 trophy cause I'm sure ixalans binding will be probably among white based decks and.you don't want to be stuck with multiple boots of a card if binding comes down.
Orphan assassin is kinda lame and id put harpoon in there somewhere.
I'm thinking it's possible to go four colour so we can run Teferi too. Untapping two lands after a Teferi +1 with an Assassin's Trophy in hand makes my nipples tingle.
Damn we need that Hallowed Fountain hehe.
I still think it's possible to maybe splash the 4th colour since Teferi would be the only white card in the deck.
How do those lists at the top win against any deck that can handle a single Carnage Tyrant?
I think we cross our fingers on having a Thought Erasure or our own Carnage Tyrant ready.
@arglebargles says he hasn't had any problems dealing with Vine Mares and Carnage Tyrants even after playing against lots of green decks. At least Vine Mare can be Essence Scattered.
I just know I'm going to get ****ed up by them from not having Settle hehe.
I'm thinking it's possible to go four colour so we can run Teferi too. Untapping two lands after a Teferi +1 with an Assassin's Trophy in hand makes my nipples tingle.
Damn we need that Hallowed Fountain hehe.
I still think it's possible to maybe splash the 4th colour since Teferi would be the only white card in the deck.
How do those lists at the top win against any deck that can handle a single Carnage Tyrant?
I think we cross our fingers on having a Thought Erasure or our own Carnage Tyrant ready.
@arglebargles says he hasn't had any problems dealing with Vine Mares and Carnage Tyrants even after playing against lots of green decks. At least Vine Mare can be Essence Scattered.
I just know I'm going to get ****ed up by them from not having Settle hehe.
I think he meant lists that can handle the decks single copy of it not the opponents
Also why not run a few creatures? Doom whisperer and carnage tyrant are valuable threats that threaten to quickly and the game and DW manipulates your draws which can bring valuable in control mirrors and against grindier decks
Doom whispered does procrastinating value though....I mean surveillance two isn't the greatest but still provides solid value at the 5 drop slot that doesn't have a lot of other creatures of 5 drops for it.
I also think ravenous chupacabra needs to be in as a 2 of somewhere. You're not running much removal so getting a dude that removes a creature and that loop holes around hillside Fox's ability is a win win
Hello everyone! So this thread is the starter for the midrange variation of sultai.
So just in case some may not know here is a brief and rough explanation of what a midrange deck are and what they do or excel at.
So a midrange deck is basically a deck that falls in line between a control deck and a aggro deck. It excels at removing threats and disrupting your opponent through various means to land large threats of or hard to answer threats. It is naturally strong against aggro and has a weakness to control and in most cases abysmal match up against combo.
So what is our key cards here for sultai and what exactly benefits you to splash blue into your green black deck vs red or white or to just play GB.
Notable mentions are dream eater though a solid threat carnage tyrant is just strictly better due to Hector and we already have access to plenty of deck manipulation.
underrealm lich this card is extremely interesting and cases can be made to run splits of it and doom whisperer but could be more of a meta call than anything. Still feel doom whispered is just better in most cases.
So here is a starting place list that should serve as a general concept or lay groundwork for a more refined and tunes list
Again this is just a rough list that I've been working kn. It's no where near final and definitely needs work before I champion of when rotation happens at bigger tournaments.
My thing is what’s the benefit of thorns lieutant? I mean I could see where a lack or two drops in the slot could be the issue but I mean with blossoming defense gone isn’t it really just a vanilla 2/2 with a expensive pump ability?
personally i feel like GBX control, midrange, and stompy decks will be up at the top. best removal access to alot of the best value/efficient creatures in the up coming format.
RDW is always a thing just after a rotation and figuring that its already the best deck now cant figure it will change much
either grixis(or ub splashing red) or jeskai will be your premier control decks though i could see a grixis midrange deck as well
gw tokens ior midrange will probably be around its viability is uncertain but the card pool is definitely there for it.
with having a somewhat aggressive creature package you could utilize spells like chart a course and even the new dovin baan.
with new spells that help with two for ones and creating early tempo with our new strictly worse mana leak and burn spells to create pressure.
so creatures that would seen excellent to fit this building would be like crackling drake, skarrgan Hellkite, or even a flash package with raff capashen, aurelia, and lyra.
I think the biggest supporter for this style.of build has to be electrodominace.
the card just creates so many two for ones or just pushes so much pressure with possibiltys or 4 to 5 damage to the dome.
what is everyone's thoughts on this?
Per Standard forum rules, new cards should be discussed in New Card Discussion until full set is spoiled. Moving. Thanks! - hoser2
vivien reid.definitely hurts the dragons value a bitbut really vivien Reid only has value against it you are tapped out other wise it just trades with it 1 for 1.
but really red doesn't really have a good 5 drop so really it just fits right in. It probably wont see mythic prices but i feel like it's got good utility and has value for the 5 slot
I dont know about that. it sounds more like a pain draw spell with the word bankrupt in it.
4 Kraul Harpooner
4 Knight of Autmn
2 Jadelight Ranger
4 Nullhide Fox
2 Trostani Concordant
2 Underrealm lich
4 Carnage Tyrant
2 Ghalta, Primal Hunger
2 Cast Down
1 March of Multitudes
4 Temple Garden
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Isolated Chapel
2 Woodland Cemetery
2 Swamp
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Arguels Bloodfast
3 Dead Weight
2 Ixalans binding
2 March of the multitudes
3 Plague crafter
Its kinda evolved from green based decks I've made. Originally was strictly TH but just felt like wasn't enough umpf. Feel like March is a really good card against control late. Wait for the fallout turn or the late sweeper and just windmill slam it. Also great against midrange decks
Orphan assassin is kinda lame and id put harpoon in there somewhere.
I think he meant lists that can handle the decks single copy of it not the opponents
I also think ravenous chupacabra needs to be in as a 2 of somewhere. You're not running much removal so getting a dude that removes a creature and that loop holes around hillside Fox's ability is a win win
So just in case some may not know here is a brief and rough explanation of what a midrange deck are and what they do or excel at.
So a midrange deck is basically a deck that falls in line between a control deck and a aggro deck. It excels at removing threats and disrupting your opponent through various means to land large threats of or hard to answer threats. It is naturally strong against aggro and has a weakness to control and in most cases abysmal match up against combo.
So what is our key cards here for sultai and what exactly benefits you to splash blue into your green black deck vs red or white or to just play GB.
So the obvious GB cards are Assassin's Trophy, carnage tyrant, vraska's contempt, Vraska, relic seekercard, and if course the two bigger bombs available to us carnage tyrant and doin whisperer
So now the cards that splash blue that benefit is
Things that provide value or an advantage over the other HAND color decks are among these
hostage taker, rain of notions, thoughterasure, thief of sanity, and unmoored ego
Notable mentions are dream eater though a solid threat carnage tyrant is just strictly better due to Hector and we already have access to plenty of deck manipulation.
underrealm lich this card is extremely interesting and cases can be made to run splits of it and doom whisperer but could be more of a meta call than anything. Still feel doom whispered is just better in most cases.
So here is a starting place list that should serve as a general concept or lay groundwork for a more refined and tunes list
1 Deathgorge Scavenger
4 Thief of Sanity
4 Hostage Taker
3 Doom Whisperer
2 Carnage Tyrant
3 Assassin's Trophy
2 Cast Down
3 Vraska's Contempt
3 Thoughterasure
2 Notion Rain
1 Rain of Spot
1 Karn, Scion of Iraq
4 Watery grave
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Drowned Catacomb
2 Hinterland Harbor
1 Field of Ruin
3 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Island
2 Rain of Spot
2 Carnage Tyrant
1 Arguels Bloodfast
2 Deathgorge Scavenger
2 Dead weight
3 Negate
Again this is just a rough list that I've been working kn. It's no where near final and definitely needs work before I champion of when rotation happens at bigger tournaments.
RDW is always a thing just after a rotation and figuring that its already the best deck now cant figure it will change much
either grixis(or ub splashing red) or jeskai will be your premier control decks though i could see a grixis midrange deck as well
gw tokens ior midrange will probably be around its viability is uncertain but the card pool is definitely there for it.