I feel like Esper is really strong, but with Teferi, Hero of Dominaria and Seal Away coming, not sure if it is needed. And those are just the ones that I have noticed, sure there are more.
The Esper Approach list that top 8'ed at the SCG Cincinnati was pretty spicy. 2 counters main and 10 draw spells. I guess it was trying to flip Search as fast as possible. I will have to jam a few games with it online to see, what can I say, I like spicy. And after Domanaria comes out in a few weeks, we get to add Isolated Chapel which will make the mana base pretty smooth.
Well said Hobbits, the choice between UW and UWx comes down to play style. I keep going back and forth between UW and Esper, not sure which I like the most or is the strongest. With Isolated Chapel being reprinted in Dominaria (I think I can say that because WotC 'spoiled' what the next set was going to be already) it will make the Esper mana base smoother. But there are some good looking UW cards in that set also. So we will see.
I like the fact that Approach has fallen off everyone's radar. Means there is a little less sideboard hate or in some cases mainboard hate, out there. GP Memphis showed me that UW Approach has a good match up against all the top decks right now. If I drew a decent hand and made my land drops, I felt like I was favored in every game. The biggest issue was if I didn't do both of those, the deck folded to itself and I sat there while getting my face beat in. That is the main reason I have been running Opt over Censor since then. It really seems to help smooth out the draws and I have fewer games where the deck just folds. Not 100% sold on it yet but still testing.
Funny story from last weekend about Authority against mid-range decks. Was playing against R\G Monsters and had 2 Authorities out. He drops a Rekindling Phoenix. I gain 2. Next turn he swings, I hit it with a Farm // Market. That drops the token. I gain 2. His next turn it re-enters. I gain 2. Next turn, I fumigate. I gain 2 from Authority. Next turn it re-enters again. I gain 2. At that point we were both laughing about it, he knew that game was over so he scooped. It does not always play out like that but most of the time the card simply reads '1 white mana, gain 5-10 life this game' when you are playing mid-range decks. And it gives us a turn 1 play.
Gideon, after I drop an emblem, is a threat that you have to deal with if you want to win the game. Most of the time, this means he will eat 5-10 damage that would have hit me instead. Sometimes I will hold him until I am in good shape, then drop him with counter backup so I can start the 4/4 beatdown plan. Other times I will drop him on 3 and force you to have an answer. Just depends on the game/player. That is what I did against a U/B deck. Game 2, he mulled to 5, then turn 3 missed a land drop. So I dropped Gideon while holding a hand full of counters. 6 turns later it was over, he never resolved anything the rest of the game. What a lot of players don't realize about him, is he is my plan B. If you kill him, I am not that worried. It just means that for the last 2-5 turns I wasn't taking damage and a lot of times, they will overcommit to the board to deal with him, walking into a fumigate. He is not an 'I win' card but he is a card that they must deal with or he will win the game.
I like Summonings, only a few decks can remove it once it hits the board and in a deck with a lot of instance/sorcery spells you will be dropping tokens a ton. I saw several U\B lists that run him as there plan b. My only concern about it is, the same hate cards most decks bring in against us, Duress/Negate, hit that also. Not saying don't run it, just keep that in mind.
@kpal - Not sure about Skywhaler, afraid it will miss a lot of stuff but the Scry is very nice. I will try it out.
Overall, I think UW Approach is in good shape. Every matchup I felt like I could win. Most of the games that I did lose were because of bad draws or mulligans or me being tried and stupid (can't forget those). Going to add Opt main to see if that helps smooth some of that. Looking at the list of top 32 decks, none of those look unwinnable or we just fold too.
As far as splashing a 3rd color, I think it comes down to personal preference. A 3 color mana base is going to be a little clucky, at best. And after this weekend, feel like it would lead to more games that the deck just folds to itself. But the extra spot removal and more sideboard options may help win games that straight UW would drop when it does not draw the right answer. Short version, not sure if going to a 3rd color is worth the issues that the mana base may bring. 2 or 3 color Approach is really strong right now.
@Hobbits73 - Profane Procession is crazy good. A little slow but very good. It wrecks UB or Grixis. They can't interact with it except with Commit. But see what I wrote above about 3 colors.
GP Memphis was great. My first day 2 at a GP. Overall the deck ran very smoothly. All day Friday played the 5-0 list posted above only change was adding one Spell Swindle main. As a one of, with 2 Gearhulks, that did so much work all weekend. Came very close to going 4-0 and getting 2 byes. Made a few small changes Friday night. Every game 2, I brought in Gideon of the Trials so decided to add one main. Dropped the one of Hier to make room. Still ended up running 61 cards because I could not come up with anything to cut to make room. Only other change was dropping one Essence Scatter for the 3rd Disallow because Friday all we saw was UB Control all day. Those few changes really helped the deck. The guys with me talked me into playing a Gideon's Intervention instead of an Ixalan's Binding. Still on the fence about this one. Was not amazing but did work both days.
I will post a full write of the event in the next day or two, here is the short version. Day 1, Mono Red 3-1, R\G Monsters 2-0, UB Control 1-0, Grixis Entergy 0-1. Day 2, Mono Red 2-1, B\G Constrictor 0-1, U\B Control 0-1. Dropped after hitting x-5. Was really tried and making a lot of mental mistakes. 3 solid days of grinding a control deck, not sleeping much on Saturday because of excited about making day two and just the stress of day 2 caught up to me. The next GP I will be better prepared. Overall, all the matchups I felt like were winnable and I felt favored. My losses were to me not drawing the cards I needed or me playing dumb.
Only changes I am thinking about making is dropping Censor for Opt. I tried that the last week or two and it helped so much. I think all 3 days, I only used Censor as a counter 3-4 times. Going to play with the list some and see what I can come up with.
All stars
Gideon - love this card. Every time he hit the board it started a fight to kill him. While we are going back and forth over him, I am getting closer to 7 mana and not taking damage. And a surprising number of games were won with a Gideon or Gearhulk beatdown that I just protected.
Spell Swindle - I have played with this before and since going back to 2 gearhulks main, it just makes sense to run 1. Countering something big and adding 4-6 treasures just feels amazing. Even better is having it in the graveyard with 6 mana open. They are now afraid to cast anything. It really changes how they have to play. On day 1, against UB control, countered their gearhulk 2 turns in a row with it, then cast double Approach next turn while still holding up counter mana just made me giggle a little inside.
Farm // Market- was surprised at how good this card felt. Turn 4, when they are playing around Settle and swing in with just one big dude. Use Farm. Then watch them the following turn while they figure out what to do. They fill like there is not a right play. Several times I had opponents just pass the turn without swinging if I had 4+ mana up.
I just finished 6-2 to make it to day two at the GP Memphis. The deck ran very smoothly all day. Beat 3 Mono Red decks, 2 GR Monsters, and a UB control list. Lost to mono red and Grixis Entergy. The mono red lose, the deck beat itself more than anything. The Grixis Entergy was close but just could not draw the right answers.
Hopefully, I will do good tomorrow also. 7 more rounds, need to go x-4 to make it to top 8. I just really want to see my name on the SCG site.
I ran a list very close to the 5-0 draw-go style one listed above except with a Spell Swindle and a Gideon main. I will post my full list and how I sideboarded Monday when I get back home.
Sorry for having to ask here, but is there anywhere that the Esper builds are discussed here? I have really loved playing the deck, but am pretty committed to the black cards in it. Thanks in advance!
Since it we can't talk about Esper or Jeskai Approach list here, which still seems funny to me, I will start a new thread when I get back from the GP in Memphis. The Esper lists right now are still 5-0'ing and are very solid. Even though Jeskai has fallen out of favor, I feel there are some very competitive lists out there.
That is really close to what I do except I don't pull out the Hulks, instead pull out some Censor. They quickly lose value, IMO and the Hulks can help you stabilize if you make it to turn 6. Also, I may swap 2 Disallow/Supreme for 2 Negates depending on the matchup. Honestly, that is the matchup I miss Aether Meltdown the most.
I really like the 5-0 list Kpal posted. The 1 Farm makes a lot of sense once I realized that the list is a straight Draw-Go style deck. And after playtesting works great. Most players will play around a Settle if you have mana open for it, instead they will swinging with one or two big creatures. Farm lets you kill one without wasting your Settle. And what is really funny is watching them the next turn trying to figure out what to do, swing with everything or just one/two dudes.
@kpal - Exact same list 5-0'ed 4 days ago. MTGO Competitive Standard Constructed League — 15-Feb-2018. Something to think about before the GP this weekend.
@Hobbits73 - I tried out last night, running 3 Opts instead of Censor and really liked it. Opt did so much work and really helped to smooth out my early hands I think I am going to keep it like that for now. May go back to Censor before the GP but will have to see.
I swapped the 2 Fragmentize out for a Forsake the Worldly in the sideboard. The 2 main reasons are it is instant, meaning gearhulk and flash it back and it exiles instead of destroy. I know it cost 3 instead of 1 but I like it better.
Ran 1 Nezahal, Primal Tide in the side also and love it each time it hit the board. Even talked to a friend last night about adding one main. Had Azor also but never had a chance to play him.
@Kpal - I like Thopter Arrest just not sure what I would cut to add it. Currently running 7 enchantment-based removal , 3 baffle, 4 cast out/binding and don't think I would want to change those numbers much.
And are you still running a Jeskai list or did you go back to UW? Gratz on the nice finish.
@xaltair - Yes, I go back and forth between 3/1 split of Cast Out and Bindings and a 2/2. I think it just comes down to personal preference and your meta what the right call is.
Went 3-0-2 at FNM to make top 8, then we all split. Changed the list I posted a few days ago some. Swapped the 3 Censor with 3 Opt to see how it worked and was very impressed. Never really missed the counter. Also tuned the deck to be a little better against aggro and midrange (ran 4 Essence Scatter, 2 Disallow, and 3 Supreme Will) but only played one aggro deck, which I just ran over. The other 4 where all control, had to laugh a little.
That was the first time running UW in awhile. I really like how smooth straight UW ran. I can't remember a single time I didn't have the right color mana to case what was in my hand. My only issue with the deck was how slow it was. It just felt like it took forever to finish each game. I would get control around turn 4-6 but then just could not close it out. Maybe just my matchups or just me.
The control matchups came down to who landed a Search first and who could flip it the fastest. Once one player had a flipped Search, it was really hard to beat them. The Cast Out/Ixalans Binding and 2 Field of Ruin did work all night.
I will keep tweaking the numbers some and will post my final list before next weekend.
This is the list I am going to run at FNM tomorrow and will take to Memphis. I may make a few changes but this is very close. I will post my sideboard plans shortly. Let me know what you guys think.
When this thread was first created by Xaltair, it was focused on a creature based approach (sorry for the pun) to this deck. I created one that was focused on a control version, at that time straight UW. The mod's decided that they were both close enough that only one thread was required, so the merged them. I felt at that time it was a mistake and still do. Nothing against Xaltair, his version is very cool and I think could put up good results. But there is a big difference between the 2 styles of decks. Right now it is like saying 'I run a Scarab God deck, it is my main win-con'. That just covers so many different decks, play styles and strategies that it would not make sense to try and encompass them all under one thread. /rant
Headed to Memphis GP next week and still no clue what I am playing. Right now UW with Baffling End is very solid and super consistent. Not really sure if the 3rd color is needed anymore for early spot removal. But Esper and Jeskai are still very strong and have great sideboard options. The Bant, 3 and 4 colors, versions are good but I just don't have enough rep's with them to take it to a major event. And I am too used to running 8-12 counters main board. I will post my current UW list later day after I get home so you guys can let me know what you think.
SCG Classic Standard - Cincinnati - 3/25/2018
MTGO Competitive Standard League: 3/12 - 3/18 There is a lot of different decks there, none have more than 2 copies. But there are 2 copies of Approach.
I like the fact that Approach has fallen off everyone's radar. Means there is a little less sideboard hate or in some cases mainboard hate, out there. GP Memphis showed me that UW Approach has a good match up against all the top decks right now. If I drew a decent hand and made my land drops, I felt like I was favored in every game. The biggest issue was if I didn't do both of those, the deck folded to itself and I sat there while getting my face beat in. That is the main reason I have been running Opt over Censor since then. It really seems to help smooth out the draws and I have fewer games where the deck just folds. Not 100% sold on it yet but still testing.
Also interesting is the deck listed right under that one by IwillCRUSHyou. He has put up a lot of 5-0's the last few weeks with U\W Approach.
Gideon, after I drop an emblem, is a threat that you have to deal with if you want to win the game. Most of the time, this means he will eat 5-10 damage that would have hit me instead. Sometimes I will hold him until I am in good shape, then drop him with counter backup so I can start the 4/4 beatdown plan. Other times I will drop him on 3 and force you to have an answer. Just depends on the game/player. That is what I did against a U/B deck. Game 2, he mulled to 5, then turn 3 missed a land drop. So I dropped Gideon while holding a hand full of counters. 6 turns later it was over, he never resolved anything the rest of the game. What a lot of players don't realize about him, is he is my plan B. If you kill him, I am not that worried. It just means that for the last 2-5 turns I wasn't taking damage and a lot of times, they will overcommit to the board to deal with him, walking into a fumigate. He is not an 'I win' card but he is a card that they must deal with or he will win the game.
I like Summonings, only a few decks can remove it once it hits the board and in a deck with a lot of instance/sorcery spells you will be dropping tokens a ton. I saw several U\B lists that run him as there plan b. My only concern about it is, the same hate cards most decks bring in against us, Duress/Negate, hit that also. Not saying don't run it, just keep that in mind.
Overall, I think UW Approach is in good shape. Every matchup I felt like I could win. Most of the games that I did lose were because of bad draws or mulligans or me being tried and stupid (can't forget those). Going to add Opt main to see if that helps smooth some of that. Looking at the list of top 32 decks, none of those look unwinnable or we just fold too.
As far as splashing a 3rd color, I think it comes down to personal preference. A 3 color mana base is going to be a little clucky, at best. And after this weekend, feel like it would lead to more games that the deck just folds to itself. But the extra spot removal and more sideboard options may help win games that straight UW would drop when it does not draw the right answer. Short version, not sure if going to a 3rd color is worth the issues that the mana base may bring. 2 or 3 color Approach is really strong right now.
@Hobbits73 - Profane Procession is crazy good. A little slow but very good. It wrecks UB or Grixis. They can't interact with it except with Commit. But see what I wrote above about 3 colors.
I will post a full write of the event in the next day or two, here is the short version. Day 1, Mono Red 3-1, R\G Monsters 2-0, UB Control 1-0, Grixis Entergy 0-1. Day 2, Mono Red 2-1, B\G Constrictor 0-1, U\B Control 0-1. Dropped after hitting x-5. Was really tried and making a lot of mental mistakes. 3 solid days of grinding a control deck, not sleeping much on Saturday because of excited about making day two and just the stress of day 2 caught up to me. The next GP I will be better prepared. Overall, all the matchups I felt like were winnable and I felt favored. My losses were to me not drawing the cards I needed or me playing dumb.
Only changes I am thinking about making is dropping Censor for Opt. I tried that the last week or two and it helped so much. I think all 3 days, I only used Censor as a counter 3-4 times. Going to play with the list some and see what I can come up with.
All stars
Gideon - love this card. Every time he hit the board it started a fight to kill him. While we are going back and forth over him, I am getting closer to 7 mana and not taking damage. And a surprising number of games were won with a Gideon or Gearhulk beatdown that I just protected.
Spell Swindle - I have played with this before and since going back to 2 gearhulks main, it just makes sense to run 1. Countering something big and adding 4-6 treasures just feels amazing. Even better is having it in the graveyard with 6 mana open. They are now afraid to cast anything. It really changes how they have to play. On day 1, against UB control, countered their gearhulk 2 turns in a row with it, then cast double Approach next turn while still holding up counter mana just made me giggle a little inside.
Farm // Market- was surprised at how good this card felt. Turn 4, when they are playing around Settle and swing in with just one big dude. Use Farm. Then watch them the following turn while they figure out what to do. They fill like there is not a right play. Several times I had opponents just pass the turn without swinging if I had 4+ mana up.
Aggro
-2 Search
-3 Censor
-3 Approach
-1 Pull
+4 Authority
+4 Cats
+1 Gideon
Midrange
-2 Search
-3 Censor
+4 Authority
+1 Gideon
Control
-3 Fumigate
-3 Censor
-1 Essence
-1 Farm
-3 Approach
+4 Negate
+4 Regal
+1 Gideon
+1 Search
+1 Crook
3 Approach of the Second Sun
2 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Gideon of the Trials
Draw
3 Glimmer of Genius
1 Pull from Tomorrow
Counter
3 Censor
3 Essence Scatter
3 Disallow
3 Supreme Will
1 Spell Swindle
Removal
3 Cast Out
1 Gideon's Intervention
1 Farm // Market
3 Settle the Wreckage
3 Fumigate
2 Search for Azcanta
Lands
2 Scavenger Grounds
2 Field of Ruin
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Ipnu Rivulet
4 Irrigated Farmland
5 Plains
4 Island
4 Authority of the Consuls
1 Gideon of the Trials
4 Negate
4 Regal Caracal
1 Crook of Condemnation
1 Search for Azcanta
Hopefully, I will do good tomorrow also. 7 more rounds, need to go x-4 to make it to top 8. I just really want to see my name on the SCG site.
I ran a list very close to the 5-0 draw-go style one listed above except with a Spell Swindle and a Gideon main. I will post my full list and how I sideboarded Monday when I get back home.
Since it we can't talk about Esper or Jeskai Approach list here, which still seems funny to me, I will start a new thread when I get back from the GP in Memphis. The Esper lists right now are still 5-0'ing and are very solid. Even though Jeskai has fallen out of favor, I feel there are some very competitive lists out there.
I really like the 5-0 list Kpal posted. The 1 Farm makes a lot of sense once I realized that the list is a straight Draw-Go style deck. And after playtesting works great. Most players will play around a Settle if you have mana open for it, instead they will swinging with one or two big creatures. Farm lets you kill one without wasting your Settle. And what is really funny is watching them the next turn trying to figure out what to do, swing with everything or just one/two dudes.
I swapped the 2 Fragmentize out for a Forsake the Worldly in the sideboard. The 2 main reasons are it is instant, meaning gearhulk and flash it back and it exiles instead of destroy. I know it cost 3 instead of 1 but I like it better.
Ran 1 Nezahal, Primal Tide in the side also and love it each time it hit the board. Even talked to a friend last night about adding one main. Had Azor also but never had a chance to play him.
@Kpal - I like Thopter Arrest just not sure what I would cut to add it. Currently running 7 enchantment-based removal , 3 baffle, 4 cast out/binding and don't think I would want to change those numbers much.
And are you still running a Jeskai list or did you go back to UW? Gratz on the nice finish.
@xaltair - Yes, I go back and forth between 3/1 split of Cast Out and Bindings and a 2/2. I think it just comes down to personal preference and your meta what the right call is.
That was the first time running UW in awhile. I really like how smooth straight UW ran. I can't remember a single time I didn't have the right color mana to case what was in my hand. My only issue with the deck was how slow it was. It just felt like it took forever to finish each game. I would get control around turn 4-6 but then just could not close it out. Maybe just my matchups or just me.
The control matchups came down to who landed a Search first and who could flip it the fastest. Once one player had a flipped Search, it was really hard to beat them. The Cast Out/Ixalans Binding and 2 Field of Ruin did work all night.
I will keep tweaking the numbers some and will post my final list before next weekend.
3 Approach of the Second Sun
2 Torrential Gearhulk
Removal
3 Baffling End
3 Cast Out
1 Ixalan's Binding
Counters
3 Censor
3 Disallow
2 Essence Scatter
3 Supreme Will
Board Wipes
3 Settle the Wreckage
3 Fumigate
3 Glimmer of Genius
1 Pull from Tomorrow
Utility
2 Search for Azcanta
Lands
1 Arch of Orazca
2 Field of Ruin
2 Scavenger Grounds
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Irrigated Farmland
6 Island
7 Plains
3 Authority of the Consuls
2 Aether Meltdown
2 Fragmentize
4 Negate
1 Nezahal, Primal Tide
3 Regal Caracal
Headed to Memphis GP next week and still no clue what I am playing. Right now UW with Baffling End is very solid and super consistent. Not really sure if the 3rd color is needed anymore for early spot removal. But Esper and Jeskai are still very strong and have great sideboard options. The Bant, 3 and 4 colors, versions are good but I just don't have enough rep's with them to take it to a major event. And I am too used to running 8-12 counters main board. I will post my current UW list later day after I get home so you guys can let me know what you think.