Been doing a lot of testing and feel like 3 Snaps and 2 others are the right creature package. Most are running 2 Vendilion Clique. I have been trying 2 others.
Gideon of the Trials - drop him on 3 and he has to be dealt with. Even if he just ends up being a fog for 1/2 turns, I still feel like he is worth it. Stopping the damage on something buys you a few more turns to help stabilize. Then later he turns into a pretty quick clock that does not cost extra mana.
Monastery Mentor - If I can untap with him, I almost feel like I can't lose. He turns into a very fast clock and can drop a bunch of blockers to again buy a few turns. The tokens having prowess is kinda silly.
Not sure if either is 'better' than v-click but I like being able to apply pressure to the other guy. It seems like a lot of game go until turn 15+ then I am comfortable enough to start swinging with colonnades. I feel like having a way to end the game 5-15 minutes soon will help.
@kPal depends on the deck. If you are running a straight control deck with gearhulk/teferi, then it makes more sense, you can bounce/draw your dude to protect it or one of theirs to try and counter it later. In an Approach deck, I think just spot removal would be better, so far really liking Gideon's Reproach.
I hope you guys like playing control mirrors, SCG Classic Standard - Atlanta - 04/29/201. 7 of the top 16 decks were control. 3 were Approach decks, 3 were UW Control. It is going to be a very interesting Standard.
Also some super secret sideboard tech - Gideon's Defeat, something tells me this is going to become very relevant now. But don't tell anyone, it is still a secret.
A couple of pages back I wrote something like "We'll have to test it, but I don't think Teferi will be all that good."
Yeah...that was about the wrongiest wrong I've ever wronged.
Maybe just a little...
@Hobbits73 - leaning towards straight UW but have been playing just control without Approach. 2-3 Teferi and 4 Gearhulks so far have been very strong. I know this is an Approach primer, so may have to sit down and write one up for just UWx Control.
@kPal - I do a lot of my testing on xMage, was really glad to see it get updated yesterday with the new stuff.
I am all over the place right now with my list but here are my thoughts so far: Teferi, Hero of Dominaria - Super strong card. Does not win the game but will keep you from losing it (hope that makes sense). All 3 modes are very relevant. The combination of him and Gideon makes a very nice pair. Right now running 2-3 main. Seal Away - the 2 mana spot removal we have been missing. This with Settle means your opponent does not have a good move to make if you have 4 mana open. Pretty much an automatic 4 set. Syncopate - This has replaced Censor in my deck. I do miss the cycling ability but the Exile effect is worth it. 3-4 in main, 1-2 in the sideboard. Unwind - Cost one more than Negate but if it resolves it is free. Currently trying 2 main and 2 Sideboard. Also, have 2-3 negates in the side. Oath of Teferi - This card makes Teferi stupid. No, really it is stupid. Draw 2, untap 4 lands each turn. If you have a flipped Search, now draw a 4th card for your turn. Then untapped them and do it again on their turn. Plus Gideon twice each turn? Ok, maybe I am getting a little to excited but so far it has been very strong. 2 main board.
Let me know what you guys think, I will post my updated list later this weekend. I can already see my deck making players rage quit.
@Hobbits73 - Sure, the Esper mana base is very smooth now with the reprint of Isolated Chapel. Drop a cycling land one turn one and the rest of the game all your dual lands come in untapped. That really helps smooth things out, so far in my testing, I have had very little issue with not having the right mana when I need it. Right now, Push hit so much stuff in any of the aggro decks that running those and Seal Away just makes keeping the board clear until you can cast a sweeper a lot easier. Vraska's Contempt is also super nice. The exile effect is very relevant in a meta that I feel like is going to start running more enchantment hate, both main and in the side. Esper also opens up more options in the sideboard (Duress, Doomfall, etc.). And gives you access to The Scarab God and Profane Procession, either of those can win the game by themselves and a lot of decks can't deal with them.
2 color decks are more consistent than 3 color decks, there is no way I can argue about that. But usually, 3 color decks are 'Stronger'. I still go back and forth between the 2. Right now focusing on Esper and just waiting to see what the meta does, I really feel like it is going to get a lot faster. Having access to one mana spot removal should help with that. Just my 2 cents.
But Patrick Chapin's lists look pretty sweet and with just a little bit of tweaking...
He probably on spent 10-15 minutes working on the list for his article so I would not take either of those lists as is to a major event. But it is interesting to look at the list and kind of start to see the way he thinks. For me, those are just a good starting point with the new set. I am with you about Evolving Wilds but he really seems to like it, it is in all his decks. So worth taking a look at.
StarCityGames has an article about control. Dominaria's Many Gifts To Blue Mages. It is a Premium article, so below is one of the lists Patrick came up with.
When talking about Lyra he said
"Baneslayer Angel 2.0 is no joke, but there's still the question of what mix of removal opponents play. Transforming into a mix of Regal Caracal and Lyra really forks your opponents that will be anticipating transformation. They may have solid answers for one or the other, but how many pieces of interaction are good against both?"
First off, @the_codaddy, congratulations on making day 2. The is very awesome. Several friends told me after Memphis that the first one is the hardest. So from here on we expect day 2 at every GP.
Seriously, nice job.
Ok, Domanaira, I think the new set is going to make standard into a very fast format. The guys at my LGS has been brewing UG Monsters and now drop Carnage Tyrant on turn 3 pretty consistently. Our old way of thinking about games, play land go until turn 4-5 then board wipe, I don't think is going to work. We are going to have to speed up our deck as well. As much as I like UW and how smooth it is, I am going to go back and try Esper again. Fatal Push is just so strong right now. Having that and Seal Away is going to be fun. Also, I am thinking about changing up my numbers. Previously I ran 6 draws, glimmer/search, 12 counters, 4-5 removal, 7 wipes, 5-6 Win-con, 25-26 lands. Now I am playing with 25-26 lands, 4 Draw, Glimmer, 12 spot removal, Push/Seal/Cast Out/Vraskas's, 6 counter, 4 Settle and 6 Win-con. That leaves about 3 flex spots. Right now those are 3 Censor but pretty sure that will change as I do more testing.
As far as win-con's, right now still using my same old ones. I really like Teferi, just need to play with him more. Lyra Dawnbriger seems really good, the only issue with her is that mainboard, we only have 1-3 creatures and by the time she hits the board, there is a pretty good chance they have drawn some of their removal. So we will usually have to fight over her. Not a bad thing, just something to keep in mind.
Again, this is nowhere near my final list, just where I am at right now. Let me know what you think.
Dc, the list looks pretty solid, only suggestion would be swap out the Courtyards for Isolated Chapel. Fetid Pools and Irrigated Farmland turns this on. So if you drop on turn one, everything else after that comes in untapped. I like the list, UW is going to be very strong but Esper looks sweet also.
Yea, with 4 mana open, what does the other guy do? Swing with everyone into Settle or just swing with one big dude into Seal Away? This is really the kind of deck I like to play, no matter what you do, I am going to punish you for it. If you just pass the turn, I am going to hit you with a Fumigate or now drop Teferi and still have 2 mana up for counters or Seal.
Seal Away and Settle the wreckage in the same deck is going to be fun. This is going to make the difference between Esper and UW very interesting. Can't wait to see how the meta shapes up.
FYI, wizards spoiled most of the Dominari set (by mistake), so I think we can talk about the new cards now. If not, if a mod will let me know, I will update my post and remove references to them.
I hope you guys like playing control mirrors, SCG Classic Standard - Atlanta - 04/29/201. 7 of the top 16 decks were control. 3 were Approach decks, 3 were UW Control. It is going to be a very interesting Standard.
Also some super secret sideboard tech - Gideon's Defeat, something tells me this is going to become very relevant now. But don't tell anyone, it is still a secret.
Maybe just a little...
@Hobbits73 - leaning towards straight UW but have been playing just control without Approach. 2-3 Teferi and 4 Gearhulks so far have been very strong. I know this is an Approach primer, so may have to sit down and write one up for just UWx Control.
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
2 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
Lands (26)
3 Island
7 Plains
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Ipnu Rivulet
4 Irrigated Farmland
2 Memorial to Genius
2 Scavenger Grounds
Spells (30)
2 Treasure Map
2 Cast Out
4 Seal Away
2 Thopter Arrest
4 Disallow
2 Essence Scatter
2 Glimmer of Genius
1 Hieroglyphic Illumination
4 Settle the Wreckage
1 Supreme Will
1 Search for Azcanta
2 Approach of the Second Sun
3 Fumigate
2 Authority of the Consuls
4 History of Benalia
1 Forsake the Worldly
1 Jace's Defeat
3 Negate
2 Lyra Dawnbringer
I am all over the place right now with my list but here are my thoughts so far:
Teferi, Hero of Dominaria - Super strong card. Does not win the game but will keep you from losing it (hope that makes sense). All 3 modes are very relevant. The combination of him and Gideon makes a very nice pair. Right now running 2-3 main.
Seal Away - the 2 mana spot removal we have been missing. This with Settle means your opponent does not have a good move to make if you have 4 mana open. Pretty much an automatic 4 set.
Syncopate - This has replaced Censor in my deck. I do miss the cycling ability but the Exile effect is worth it. 3-4 in main, 1-2 in the sideboard.
Unwind - Cost one more than Negate but if it resolves it is free. Currently trying 2 main and 2 Sideboard. Also, have 2-3 negates in the side.
Oath of Teferi - This card makes Teferi stupid. No, really it is stupid. Draw 2, untap 4 lands each turn. If you have a flipped Search, now draw a 4th card for your turn. Then untapped them and do it again on their turn. Plus Gideon twice each turn? Ok, maybe I am getting a little to excited but so far it has been very strong. 2 main board.
Let me know what you guys think, I will post my updated list later this weekend. I can already see my deck making players rage quit.
2 color decks are more consistent than 3 color decks, there is no way I can argue about that. But usually, 3 color decks are 'Stronger'. I still go back and forth between the 2. Right now focusing on Esper and just waiting to see what the meta does, I really feel like it is going to get a lot faster. Having access to one mana spot removal should help with that. Just my 2 cents.
But Patrick Chapin's lists look pretty sweet and with just a little bit of tweaking...
When talking about Lyra he said
"Baneslayer Angel 2.0 is no joke, but there's still the question of what mix of removal opponents play. Transforming into a mix of Regal Caracal and Lyra really forks your opponents that will be anticipating transformation. They may have solid answers for one or the other, but how many pieces of interaction are good against both?"
Just food for thought.
2 Gideon of the Trials
2 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
Lands (25)
4 Island
5 Plains
3 Evolving Wilds
1 Field of Ruin
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Ipnu Rivulet
4 Irrigated Farmland
1 Memorial to Genius
1 Scavenger Grounds
Spells (31)
3 Cast Out
3 Seal Away
1 Blink of an Eye
2 Censor
4 Disallow
2 Essence Scatter
4 Hieroglyphic Illumination
2 Negate
1 Pull from Tomorrow
2 Settle the Wreckage
2 Search for Azcanta
2 Approach of the Second Sun
3 Fumigate
2 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Glory-Bound Initiate
2 Regal Caracal
2 Sacred Cat
1 Solemnity
1 Invoke the Divine
1 Jace's Defeat
1 Negate
1 Spell Pierce
2 Lyra Dawnbringer
1 Fragmentize
This is where he said he would start at for a non Approach list.
2 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Lyra Dawnbringer
Planeswalkers (5)
3 Gideon of the Trials
2 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
Lands (25)
4 Island
5 Plains
3 Evolving Wilds
1 Field of Ruin
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Ipnu Rivulet
4 Irrigated Farmland
1 Memorial to Genius
1 Scavenger Grounds
3 Cast Out
3 Seal Away
2 Censor
4 Disallow
3 Essence Scatter
4 Hieroglyphic Illumination
2 Negate
2 Settle the Wreckage
1 Search for Azcanta
2 Fumigate
The Dominaria Control Top 10! a SSG article talking about the top 10 control cards in Dom. Not sure I agree with him but still a good read.
Seriously, nice job.
Ok, Domanaira, I think the new set is going to make standard into a very fast format. The guys at my LGS has been brewing UG Monsters and now drop Carnage Tyrant on turn 3 pretty consistently. Our old way of thinking about games, play land go until turn 4-5 then board wipe, I don't think is going to work. We are going to have to speed up our deck as well. As much as I like UW and how smooth it is, I am going to go back and try Esper again. Fatal Push is just so strong right now. Having that and Seal Away is going to be fun. Also, I am thinking about changing up my numbers. Previously I ran 6 draws, glimmer/search, 12 counters, 4-5 removal, 7 wipes, 5-6 Win-con, 25-26 lands. Now I am playing with 25-26 lands, 4 Draw, Glimmer, 12 spot removal, Push/Seal/Cast Out/Vraskas's, 6 counter, 4 Settle and 6 Win-con. That leaves about 3 flex spots. Right now those are 3 Censor but pretty sure that will change as I do more testing.
As far as win-con's, right now still using my same old ones. I really like Teferi, just need to play with him more. Lyra Dawnbriger seems really good, the only issue with her is that mainboard, we only have 1-3 creatures and by the time she hits the board, there is a pretty good chance they have drawn some of their removal. So we will usually have to fight over her. Not a bad thing, just something to keep in mind.
Again, this is nowhere near my final list, just where I am at right now. Let me know what you think.
4 Glimmer of Genius
Removal
4 Fatal Push
4 Seal Away
2 Cast Out
2 Vraska's Contempt
Counters
3 Censor
2 Syncopate
2 Disallow
2 Supreme Will
4 Settle the Wreckage
WinCon
3 Approach of the Second Sun
2 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Gideon of the Trials
Land
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Isolated Chapel
3 Irrigated Farmland
3 Fetid Pools
2 Field of Ruin
2 Plains
2 Island
2 Swamp
Seal Away and Settle the wreckage in the same deck is going to be fun. This is going to make the difference between Esper and UW very interesting. Can't wait to see how the meta shapes up.
FYI, wizards spoiled most of the Dominari set (by mistake), so I think we can talk about the new cards now. If not, if a mod will let me know, I will update my post and remove references to them.