I'm on the 4 anger main plan, packing 3 eternal scourge and 2 key and Peele. I've never had troubles with playing an anger.
I do have a question though. I have one flex spot that I can't quite figure out, and am torn between it being a sudden shock or the second magma jet. I plan on playing this at gp Indy in a couple weeks, and plan on facing nothing but aggro decks and maybe some jeskai. The SS is pretty sweet main because it takes care of so many problem creatures like insolate neonate and ravager among others, but I have two in the board and a third might be overkill. The filtering off of jet is sweet, but again I'm a bit attached to SS. I'd love to hear some opinions on this, thanks!
I saw that green tron list today, and thought that if I ever ended up with ancient stirrings in my deck, that's similar to what I'd be looking to play. However, I think i'll stick to mono-color(less) right now.
Update on my end, I recently shaved some of my over-crowded 6 drop slot for 4 Endless one, and it has been doing wonders for my curve and my ability to not die in the first few turns. -2 Wurmcoil engine (down to 2) and -2 Pithing Needle effects (down to 1 main 2 side) for the 4. This card being an early or late game threat is bonkers amazing, I don't know how I didn't see it before. As for Eldrazi Mimic and Matter reshaper, I think i'll be sticking with the bigger list, but boy is the deck working well now.
Also i've been trading aggressively for colorless stuff to jam in the side, picked up 2 spellskites and another all is dust, on top of another ratchet bomb that I have access to, so now I'm left with the question of what should my sideboard be looking like?
Hmm. This may just be me never having played with the card, but natural intuition tells me that Oblivion Stone and 2-3 drop creatures are a non-bo. Is it just an emergency button that you don't care if you board wipe with because you have more gas in hand?
Do you have an up to date list? I think i'll pick up my missing pieces for the more aggressive version to play with for when the meta around me picks up speed.
So in that last hour, I played 10 games against infect, and if not strictly for that matchup, I will resign to dismember over TP. the 1 mana is probably just better.
Emrakul was a little bit because of the overpopulation of the Nahiri deck, but I'll admit that it's also slightly because i'm afraid of the sudden popularity of that mill deck. I realize that that's a totally irrational fear, but it is what it is. Ugin will likely be coming in there as well.
Pithing Needle - I've been playing modern long enough to feel confident in my ability to call a deck in the first turn or two, and then needle accordingly. Needle turns off a little bit of most decks, and I feel like it impacts enough to be worth the number of slots that I have it at. There are certain decks that it just turns off, and by replacing it with a small creature I take away my ability to beat several decks in exchange for redundant damage. However I wouldn't recommend needle to everyone. You need to know how to play it and be confident in that to get the most use out of it, so for someone just picking up the deck i'd probably agree with you that the creature is better because it's easier. The needle is an extremely strong card in modern, even more now than before with the recent influx of blue based control decks with Thopter, nahiri, or both. It beats Tron as a deck, it stops a portion of hate against us in Fulminator mage and opposing GQs, and it is capable of attacking the format on an angle that they aren't prepared for.
Like I said before, I'm anticipating some good things out of this thread, and hopefully I'll be able to contribute just as much later on after I figure things out for myself.
So you mention a lot of tutoring for the dudes, however in my time playtesting, I've found that I almost always have a threat of some sort. Everything in the deck sans revoker is bigger than the rest of the format, and I don't particularly have any issues with being overwhelmed. I haven't played against elves or merfolk as much as I probably should, so I might be a bit weak against the go-wide strategy, but from what I've seen I don't think it's actually necessary to jam as much search in. I've been on the fence about another all is dust in the side, I decided to go with emrakul instead because I see a lot more UWx control decks than I do things like the tribal go wide decks.
Ghost quarter is the only weapon the deck has against tron, and with the huge number of greedy mana bases in the format, I think that the only correct number of GQ in the deck is either 4 or 0. I'm choosing to go with 4 because it gives too much of an advantage against certain decks.
Chalice would probably replace Sun droplet if or when it ever comes in. However, I currently find myself without any copies because dollar reasons, so it will not be coming in anytime in the near future. I do agree though that it offers enough of a hedge in two of the worst matchups to warrant the include.
As for dismember over titan's presence, like I said before I almost never find myself without a threat of some sort. I don't have a problem with dismember, but the 4 damage is very off-putting. TP is essentially free, and the exile can also be relevant. My current thoughts on this; until TP shows itself to be a bad card for me, I will run it over dismember.
So Sanctum of Ugin V Conduit of Ruin, if I should be including any tutors at all. I really like this current iteration of the mana base, and the thought of adding in more lands that sac themselves is very unappealing. The one problem that i've found is that GQ will leave me at one too few mana for the next turn's big play, but the time saved when I do crack it usually makes up for it. It doesn't get cracked in every matchup though, whereas sanctum does. So that's my biggest turn off there. Conduit however would probably be the card to play, but where would it fit in? I suppose that I would shave a kozilek for it, as I added the second in when I felt that drawing more cards was the go-to plan. Since i'd be tutoring for whatever I need instead of just 6-7 more pieces of random gas, I think that'd be where that goes. Could be wrong though.
Anyway, thanks for the comment, I am anticipating some decent tips to come out of here.
So a couple weeks ago, I picked up my set of Tron lands, and thought that i'd really like to make a deck with them. After deciding that I hate the card Karn Liberated, I thought i'd go Mono blue and jam TKS and Reality smasher in there. After much deliberation and a lot of testing, I've ended up with an entirely colorless version that looks pretty similar to what you lot are working with. Basically this version is a lot more top heavy and effectively curves out twice. What I mean by that is that if I do happen to set up tron, I've got the top end of Newlamog and Kozilek GD in higher density (2 each), and if I can't get tron online, the plan is to curve out at Oblvion sower and Wurmcoil all the while disrupting the opponent's plays with Pithing needle effects and those 2 drop colorless bros from Oath Warping Wail and Spatial contortion.
Here's the list that I came up with. In the last two weeks of playtesting, it has really shown a lot of promise. It is able to recover from the early onslaught fairly consistently, and really there isn't a deck with a bigger top end so it just goes over everyone.
I'm still trying to figure out what I want in the sideboard, as the problem matches that I've seen so far are Infect, Burn burn (not zoo), GR Tron at like 50/50, and Jeskai Nahiri if I don't get tron online.
Basically i'd be looking for some sideboard input as well as just any thoughts on the deck in general. Thanks for checking it out!
After scanning the current abzan midrange thread, I believe that I'm in the right place posting here because regardless of the final build, I know one thing for certain is that I'm playing Noble Hierarch in my deck, and that's just something that traditional midrange just doesn't do. So I guess now it just kind of comes down to testing. Abzan charm is mad spicy, but it could work out. Hitting the batting cages on that one, will report back if anything interesting develops.
The way I want to play the deck, I don't want to over commit to any given board state. I just want to jam one or two threats out there and tell the opponent to deal with them. Based on the aggressive v midrange description, I'd say that i'm the control variant.
So from that, am I basically attempting to recreate Abzan Midrange but with bigger dudes in place of liliana, goyf and bob confidant?
I've no problem tossing in some painful truths, but I also really like all of the creatures in the suite that I have. However, if i'm stuck scrambling for a certain game plan, am I just better being a dedicated budget Abzan Midrange deck and cutting the creatures down to Rhino, Anafenza, Tasigur, scooze and finks?
In regards to the pridemage piece, Anafenza has proven to be much better than QPM in several matchups, and without a reliable way to tutor for the mage I feel like making the deck less consistent in order to have access to a silver bullet that i'll realistically never draw isn't the best plans. If I were to be playing more draw spells like a 2-3 of PTruths, then that option might open up, but as it stand right now I don't think that I can rely on a singleton pridemage main.
So quick note: I have recently taken this archetype up as my main archetype in modern with Living end as a back up. I went for the liege route because, well, tarmogoyf and the dollars... But while I'm saving up, I figured that the beatdown route would be the ideal one for my playstyle.
First off, here's my current list. I built it myself however it ended up looking very similar to current lists, so I guess I might have done something right. Anyway, here's what I'm working with -
Some things that i've noticed with the deck so far: There's games where it's Zoo, and there's games where it's Jund, and either route is entirely dependant on the draw that I get. What I mean by this is that there will be games where I curve Birds into Anafenza into Thragtusk and just beat them down, and other times, I'm on the turn one go to 15 Thoughtseize plan with a path, Angished unmaking, and a kitchen finks in hand as backup. Now, I'm not necessarily saying that this is a bad thing, I'm just a bit afraid of what could happen if I get the wrong game plan in the wrong matchup. For example, my Zoo hands will decimate burn with how much incidental lifegain and giant haymakers I throw down, but any hand with thoughtseize and abrupt decay is just asking to get its face burned off. So is there any way that I can mitigate this, either through some sort of card selection or filtering, or any other means? I play Nic Fit in Legacy (Which is also why I chose this archetype - Lots of crossover), and there I have Top and Green Sun's to fix this issue. Is this just something that I need to live with in modern?
Anyway, I very much enjoy this deck, and may not even make the switch over to the Tarmo build when I can. I will be putting a lot of hours into this deck, and I hope that I will be able to bring some more fresh perspective into what appears to be a decently active thread.
So i'm starting to get into nic fit in legacy, and one of the biggest things that the deck does is grab random stuff back from the yard while also being able to grab certain pieces from the deck. Is there any way that this could emulate that strategy and have the capacity to find things from the library green sun's zenith style? Or are we looking to gain that sort of advantage strictly from having a more expanded graveyard?
Either way, Tasigur for sure is coming into my build because all of our cards are just better than the opponent's individually.
When you cast them off of a mana dork, they're totally good enough. T3 Siege rhino when backed up with lingering souls is extremely difficult for most decks to beat.
I have yet to find a reason that hornet queen should be played in the deck. It's a good card, but it just isn't better than what's already here. I mean, if you need a budgeted top end, go for it, but I don't think that it's necessary.
Yeah, after playing some games against Jund, the deck that I put the afflictions in for, it turns out that I didn't even need them. They have a really hard time beating 2 siege rhinos, or anything else in the deck, so those have become a Resto Angel and an Eternal Witness. As for the fogs, I feel that I need just a bit more protection against infect because I play against it a lot. Sure, it could be something else like a Raven's Crime or some other form of disruption, but I get a lot of mileage out of fogs. That's more of a flex spot meta call sort of thing because I had two open SB slots.
So apparently Sun Titan is a thing that I/we have been missing. I've been messing around with a list that looks to get a bit of value out of him as well as just play with cards that I found in my binder. Also i've decided that Traverse the Ulvenwald, while ideal in some scenarios, is just too slow to have in a slot. I've dropped loam similarly due to not being impactful enough.
Here's my list in its current iteration. there should be 4x Birds of Paradise instead of the bad ones.
Some odd choices, but there's quite a bit of tech for the long grindy match ups, which from what i've gathered are the harder ones. Shrieking Affliction and Bow of Nylea are in to kill the opponent and keep us alive respectively. Bow is actually super useful in every long game situation. We'll never mill ourselves out, gain a ton of life, make one huge dude, or I guess snipe down Thopter tokens? I might end up leaning away from the afflictions, but the one of bow is here to stay. Hero of Bladehold also helps smoothe out our 4 drop slot and gives us more of a chance to go wide instead of stacking tall. If anyone is willing i'd like to hear what your thoughts.
I do have a question though. I have one flex spot that I can't quite figure out, and am torn between it being a sudden shock or the second magma jet. I plan on playing this at gp Indy in a couple weeks, and plan on facing nothing but aggro decks and maybe some jeskai. The SS is pretty sweet main because it takes care of so many problem creatures like insolate neonate and ravager among others, but I have two in the board and a third might be overkill. The filtering off of jet is sweet, but again I'm a bit attached to SS. I'd love to hear some opinions on this, thanks!
Update on my end, I recently shaved some of my over-crowded 6 drop slot for 4 Endless one, and it has been doing wonders for my curve and my ability to not die in the first few turns. -2 Wurmcoil engine (down to 2) and -2 Pithing Needle effects (down to 1 main 2 side) for the 4. This card being an early or late game threat is bonkers amazing, I don't know how I didn't see it before. As for Eldrazi Mimic and Matter reshaper, I think i'll be sticking with the bigger list, but boy is the deck working well now.
Also i've been trading aggressively for colorless stuff to jam in the side, picked up 2 spellskites and another all is dust, on top of another ratchet bomb that I have access to, so now I'm left with the question of what should my sideboard be looking like?
1x Spellskite
2x Pithing Needle
2x Ratchet Bomb
1x Dismember
4x Relic of Progenitus
2x Sun Droplet
1x Endbringer
This is what i'm working with at the moment. I'm thinking that the skites need to be up'd, maybe cut back on the relics for some other cards?
Do you have an up to date list? I think i'll pick up my missing pieces for the more aggressive version to play with for when the meta around me picks up speed.
Emrakul was a little bit because of the overpopulation of the Nahiri deck, but I'll admit that it's also slightly because i'm afraid of the sudden popularity of that mill deck. I realize that that's a totally irrational fear, but it is what it is. Ugin will likely be coming in there as well.
Pithing Needle - I've been playing modern long enough to feel confident in my ability to call a deck in the first turn or two, and then needle accordingly. Needle turns off a little bit of most decks, and I feel like it impacts enough to be worth the number of slots that I have it at. There are certain decks that it just turns off, and by replacing it with a small creature I take away my ability to beat several decks in exchange for redundant damage. However I wouldn't recommend needle to everyone. You need to know how to play it and be confident in that to get the most use out of it, so for someone just picking up the deck i'd probably agree with you that the creature is better because it's easier. The needle is an extremely strong card in modern, even more now than before with the recent influx of blue based control decks with Thopter, nahiri, or both. It beats Tron as a deck, it stops a portion of hate against us in Fulminator mage and opposing GQs, and it is capable of attacking the format on an angle that they aren't prepared for.
Like I said before, I'm anticipating some good things out of this thread, and hopefully I'll be able to contribute just as much later on after I figure things out for myself.
Ghost quarter is the only weapon the deck has against tron, and with the huge number of greedy mana bases in the format, I think that the only correct number of GQ in the deck is either 4 or 0. I'm choosing to go with 4 because it gives too much of an advantage against certain decks.
Chalice would probably replace Sun droplet if or when it ever comes in. However, I currently find myself without any copies because dollar reasons, so it will not be coming in anytime in the near future. I do agree though that it offers enough of a hedge in two of the worst matchups to warrant the include.
As for dismember over titan's presence, like I said before I almost never find myself without a threat of some sort. I don't have a problem with dismember, but the 4 damage is very off-putting. TP is essentially free, and the exile can also be relevant. My current thoughts on this; until TP shows itself to be a bad card for me, I will run it over dismember.
So Sanctum of Ugin V Conduit of Ruin, if I should be including any tutors at all. I really like this current iteration of the mana base, and the thought of adding in more lands that sac themselves is very unappealing. The one problem that i've found is that GQ will leave me at one too few mana for the next turn's big play, but the time saved when I do crack it usually makes up for it. It doesn't get cracked in every matchup though, whereas sanctum does. So that's my biggest turn off there. Conduit however would probably be the card to play, but where would it fit in? I suppose that I would shave a kozilek for it, as I added the second in when I felt that drawing more cards was the go-to plan. Since i'd be tutoring for whatever I need instead of just 6-7 more pieces of random gas, I think that'd be where that goes. Could be wrong though.
Anyway, thanks for the comment, I am anticipating some decent tips to come out of here.
So a couple weeks ago, I picked up my set of Tron lands, and thought that i'd really like to make a deck with them. After deciding that I hate the card Karn Liberated, I thought i'd go Mono blue and jam TKS and Reality smasher in there. After much deliberation and a lot of testing, I've ended up with an entirely colorless version that looks pretty similar to what you lot are working with. Basically this version is a lot more top heavy and effectively curves out twice. What I mean by that is that if I do happen to set up tron, I've got the top end of Newlamog and Kozilek GD in higher density (2 each), and if I can't get tron online, the plan is to curve out at Oblvion sower and Wurmcoil all the while disrupting the opponent's plays with Pithing needle effects and those 2 drop colorless bros from Oath Warping Wail and Spatial contortion.
Here's the list that I came up with. In the last two weeks of playtesting, it has really shown a lot of promise. It is able to recover from the early onslaught fairly consistently, and really there isn't a deck with a bigger top end so it just goes over everyone.
2x Endbringer
2x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2x Oblivion Sower
1x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Reality Smasher
4x Thought-Knot Seer
2x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4x Wurmcoil Engine
Artifact (7)
1x Batterskull
4x Expedition Map
2x Pithing Needle
3x Spatial Contortion
1x Titan's Presence
4x Warping Wail
Land (24)
4x Eldrazi Temple
4x Ghost Quarter
1x Sea Gate Wreckage
1x Tomb of the Spirit Dragon
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Tower
2x Wastes
1x All Is Dust
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2x Pithing Needle
2x Ratchet Bomb
4x Relic of Progenitus
2x Spellskite
2x Sun Droplet
1x Titan's Presence
I'm still trying to figure out what I want in the sideboard, as the problem matches that I've seen so far are Infect, Burn burn (not zoo), GR Tron at like 50/50, and Jeskai Nahiri if I don't get tron online.
Basically i'd be looking for some sideboard input as well as just any thoughts on the deck in general. Thanks for checking it out!
The way I want to play the deck, I don't want to over commit to any given board state. I just want to jam one or two threats out there and tell the opponent to deal with them. Based on the aggressive v midrange description, I'd say that i'm the control variant.
So from that, am I basically attempting to recreate Abzan Midrange but with bigger dudes in place of liliana, goyf and bob confidant?
I've no problem tossing in some painful truths, but I also really like all of the creatures in the suite that I have. However, if i'm stuck scrambling for a certain game plan, am I just better being a dedicated budget Abzan Midrange deck and cutting the creatures down to Rhino, Anafenza, Tasigur, scooze and finks?
In regards to the pridemage piece, Anafenza has proven to be much better than QPM in several matchups, and without a reliable way to tutor for the mage I feel like making the deck less consistent in order to have access to a silver bullet that i'll realistically never draw isn't the best plans. If I were to be playing more draw spells like a 2-3 of PTruths, then that option might open up, but as it stand right now I don't think that I can rely on a singleton pridemage main.
So quick note: I have recently taken this archetype up as my main archetype in modern with Living end as a back up. I went for the liege route because, well, tarmogoyf and the dollars... But while I'm saving up, I figured that the beatdown route would be the ideal one for my playstyle.
First off, here's my current list. I built it myself however it ended up looking very similar to current lists, so I guess I might have done something right. Anyway, here's what I'm working with -
4x Birds of Paradise
3x Noble Hierarch
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Anafenza, the Foremost
3x Kitchen Finks
2x Loxodon Smiter
4x Siege Rhino
3x Wilt-leaf Liege
1x Thragtusk
Inst. / Sorc.
2x Thoughtseize
3x Path to Exile
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Anguished Unmaking
2x Lingering souls
1x Maelstrom pulse
3x Forest
3x Gavony Township
1x Godless Shrine
1x Hissing Quagmire
1x Marsh Flats
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
3x Razorverge Thicket
1x Swamp
2x Temple Garden
2x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
1x Choke
1x Creeping Corrosion
2x Feed the Clan
1x Fog
2x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Pithing Needle
2x Qasali Pridemage
1x Rest in Peace
2x Stony Silence
1x Zealous Persecution
Some things that i've noticed with the deck so far: There's games where it's Zoo, and there's games where it's Jund, and either route is entirely dependant on the draw that I get. What I mean by this is that there will be games where I curve Birds into Anafenza into Thragtusk and just beat them down, and other times, I'm on the turn one go to 15 Thoughtseize plan with a path, Angished unmaking, and a kitchen finks in hand as backup. Now, I'm not necessarily saying that this is a bad thing, I'm just a bit afraid of what could happen if I get the wrong game plan in the wrong matchup. For example, my Zoo hands will decimate burn with how much incidental lifegain and giant haymakers I throw down, but any hand with thoughtseize and abrupt decay is just asking to get its face burned off. So is there any way that I can mitigate this, either through some sort of card selection or filtering, or any other means? I play Nic Fit in Legacy (Which is also why I chose this archetype - Lots of crossover), and there I have Top and Green Sun's to fix this issue. Is this just something that I need to live with in modern?
Anyway, I very much enjoy this deck, and may not even make the switch over to the Tarmo build when I can. I will be putting a lot of hours into this deck, and I hope that I will be able to bring some more fresh perspective into what appears to be a decently active thread.
Either way, Tasigur for sure is coming into my build because all of our cards are just better than the opponent's individually.
Edit for deck list inclusion:
Modern Nic Fit / Reanimator
Here's my list in its current iteration. there should be 4x Birds of Paradise instead of the bad ones.
2x Avacyn's Pilgrim
2x Elvish Mystic
2x Arbor Elf
1x Spellskite
1x Satyr Wayfinder
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Reclamation Sage
4x Siege Rhino
1x Hero of Bladehold
1x Thragtusk
1x Acidic Slime
2x Shriekmaw
1x Sun Titan
1x Angel of Serenity
Instants, Sorceries, and Enchantments:
2x Shrieking Affliction
3x Path to Exile
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Grisly Salvage
3x Lingering Souls
1x Painful Truths
1x Bow of Nylea
2x Unburial Rites
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Godless Shrine
1x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Stirring Wildwood
1x Hissing Quagmire
1x Vault of the Archangel
1x Mortuary Mire
1x Bojuka Bog
3x Forest
2x Swamp
2x Plains
1x Stony Silence
2x Ghostly Prison
2x Fog
2x Spellskite
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Painful Truths
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Illness in the Ranks
2x Wrath of God
1x Mirran Crusader
Some odd choices, but there's quite a bit of tech for the long grindy match ups, which from what i've gathered are the harder ones. Shrieking Affliction and Bow of Nylea are in to kill the opponent and keep us alive respectively. Bow is actually super useful in every long game situation. We'll never mill ourselves out, gain a ton of life, make one huge dude, or I guess snipe down Thopter tokens? I might end up leaning away from the afflictions, but the one of bow is here to stay. Hero of Bladehold also helps smoothe out our 4 drop slot and gives us more of a chance to go wide instead of stacking tall. If anyone is willing i'd like to hear what your thoughts.