Saprolings have the *most* cross-tribal synergy for sure:
and others that are less obvious (like Mycologist.) I'd point to Death Baron as an *almost.* Innistrad certainly played up "human tribal" with non-humans (vampires, demons, etc)
The reason cross-tribal is rare is because it's completely unnecessary and much harder to please the audience. Tribal themes were put in to help make these tribes that people want to play actually playable; it started around Onslaught block.
The reason cross-tribal is unsupported is because you can *already* put X&Y together and have them work; it's easy to do so without tribal synergies.
The next problem is that if you're building a tribal deck; it's because you like the tribe. If you want to mix tribes you have to like *both* tribes; making the cards very niche. Wizards, I believe, will tend to instead make strong synergies available in general so you can pick a non-tribal support card and feel good about it; without it saying "Saprolings." Centaur Chieftain can lead your Saproling/Centaur populate deck to victory! (It's honestly difficult to find green non-human non-elf non-treefolk synergies; but that's 3 strong cross tribals.)
-
- tescrin
- Registered User
-
Member for 10 years, 8 months, and 4 days
Last active Thu, Jan, 28 2016 18:13:05
- 0 Followers
- 697 Total Posts
- 29 Thanks
The reason things like Goyf, Stoneforge, Bob, and KotR are brutal and used is because they're able to stall the board or generate advantage. They can flip a game on its head by surviving a turn.
Your issue is that you have subpar dudes and a lack of card advantage. The things that you get to use from the grave provide no real advantage. Slitherhead, for example, does what Goyf does except has to die to do it and then have another dude out to benefit. The synergy is just worse than the regular card. Additionally, your low curve is not served well by 24 lands.
IMO, if you're trying to do this I'd go the Nic Fit route. It can be budget friendly and loves to abuse the grave.
Example:
3 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite shaman
4 Bloodghast
3 Obstinate Baloth
1 Primeval Titan
1 Grave Titan
1 Recurring Nightmare
-22-
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Crop Rotation
3 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Innocent Blood
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Phyrexian Tower
-21 other lands-
I didn't count and it needs refining, but that is something closer to what will work well. CA, ramp, big dudes, recursion, etc..
It's a bit gimmicky, but you can learn the game and keep to a reasonable budget while having an entertaining game.
Second; just run a Mishra's Workshop list of 4x Chalice, 4x Trinisphere, 4x Lodestone, etc..
You'll lock him out every game you go first. He'll win when he goes first (probably.)
3-4 Mogg War Marshal
-more efficient gobbos-
Dark Triumph hits *really* fast with Bushwacker and pushes up the number of T3 kills by a lot, and Bushwacker tends to be leagues better than Chieftain
The only reason we haven't talked as much about it as we could, is because we're in the budget section. The black or white splashes are both quite good IMO. Black for Bitterblossom, Decay, or similar; White for hate-bears.
Honestly, in my original build I used both Chalice, Root Maze, AND Sphere; that way the chance to drop a nasty hate piece T1 was maximized. I was also very Quad-Lazer about everything at the time. I think Sphere is a little obnoxious to cast through yourself; and so I'd rather make this an Aether Vial deck if I was going to run Spheres. That said, I had a high curve; so maybe that's why I had minor issues with this.
The best hting about Chalice is it blocks all of the non-Liliana removal that people play in legacy that can kill Lodestone.
Despite what the other guy says, I don't think you have to spam prison artifacts to make the deck work. You basically just need Root Maze, a couple of disruption artifacts, and Lodestones. Replacing 4 lands with Land Grants increases your green count, and Mox Opal, IMO, looks very unlikely to work reliably or early.
Given that you have dead cards anyway (root maze #2, planeswalker #2, Elvish Spirit Guide, land grand in a land heavy hand, etc..) you can easily make good use of Chrome Mox. Also, you only need roughly 17 green cards to make it reliable, and 22 to make it very reliable.
If, for instance you then start with:
You have enough to support 4 Chrome mox (though.. I'd probably only use 2 or *maybe* 3 as it's exceptionally bad in multiples.)
I used them just fine.
I like this idea. Incentive to "invest" but you don't have to.
That said, who's going to pay $30 to enter a $10 local?
Why ban Duals while not banning Goyf, JtMS, Lili, FoW, Wasteland, Port, and other $100-200 cards?
The only reason we bring this up is budget; and the budget on blue duals is around Goyf prices. The budget on non-blue duals is around Wasteland and Port prices. Cheap duals are around JtMS, FoW, and Blood Moon prices.
All this does is piss on the format while inflating prices on other staples. Why? All the money you don't spend on duals will now be contested on FoW and Wasteland, still pricing people out and still price gouging people.
Brainstorm is best with fetches.
Root Maze is bad in multiples.
Brainstorm gets rid of multiples and finds Root Maze.
Root Maze hoses fetches.
So even out of budget, Brainstorm doesn't fix Root Maze.
Thus, I contend, you want things that use Root Maze #2, #3, and #4; and things that keep you away from drawing #2, #3, and #4
-You need Guile, Library, or Top
-Things like Chrome Mox or mirror'd discard to deal with these extra copies
Other routes are man-lands, lands that produce tokens, or things like that, going for Mox Diamond instead. The real problem is Root Maze is garbage with and without Brainstorm, so you want to have ways to get rid of it; hence my real push to run Chrome mox.
The next bit is how do you also get rid of it; which requires going beyond the budget into BG so you can Liliana it away for value or something.
Goyfs are also something that would make sense, but again.. this is a different topic. Natural Hexproof/Shroud/Uncounterability are all good attributes to have in order to get around the problem of your opponent answering your singleton threat or some such. Blurred Mongoose, for instance, may be a great threat. Thalia is an awesome threat as well since with Chrome you can T1 her, she messes up following counterspells and bad MUs, and stacks nicely with Lodestone, but it immediately pushes us out of Budget and towards something like Maverick, which then probably eventually evolves into maverick.
This is exactly where I'm at. Creatures that require other cards to be good in legacy don't make the cut, because they're unreliable. yeah, you'll draw that 1-of Soul Sister into Karlov or whatever and have a game where he's big. The rest of the games you'll be gaining life instead of draining it, spending jitte counters on life gain instead of just winning via board control, or other subpar plays; leaving you with an 8/8 or larger Karlov precisely until he attacks. Or.. in response to the first trigger now that you've invested jitte counters or DRS activation? Bolt/Disfigure/Plow.
He's color heavy, in colors that aren't blue, that need non blue cards to work, that requires synergy to be as good as a Goyf, and often just will be a 2/2 who gets garbaged out of the game by relevant creatures.
If you're going to play a beater, play one. Don't play something with "Potential."
___
I don't think Soul Sisters would work in legacy as you only have a couple relevant cards, which will get countered or killed while you gain a little bit of life. It's curve is also vulnerable to Daze like the dickins. Now what, you play karlov by himself? Play another irrelevant 1/1 while Delver is beating for 3 or storm is killing you?
Legacy requires you to be a good card on your own because decks are *the best* at dismantling your garbage combo. They have to be, because real combos tend to end the game instantly with 2 cards.
Yeah! lol Sorry, Decree is a much cooler card, but indeed I meant Web.
@6jerfs
If you already ramped, presumably you're ok.
I REALLY recommend Revokers now that I remember why I didn't keep running the deck:
Aether Vial..
Against D&T I remember having a bunch of taxing only work against me while he played a bunch of morons through Vial. Same thing would happen against Merfolk/Goblins. Also, cutting off DRS or elf mana keeps the opponent from getting places. You have to be a little careful with number of artifacts if you go Chrome Mox; which was part of why I used Land Grant and ESG as mana and didn't have Tangle Wires and stuff.
Were you to break the budget barrier a bit, Mirri's Guile, Sylvan Library, or SDT are pretty much mandatory so you can push more of the garbage away. I'd push for Guile or Library so that it's green non/artifact and isn't killed by opposing Revokers, and then I'd probably push for Library with the plan of dumping life as long as you aren't running Tomb.
EDIT: Courser may work OK (but much better next to them) as a way to not only help clear garbage, but because he's a threat and a way to stall the board.
EDIT2: I think Rec Sage is a definite contender to keep equips, Vial, and other obnoxious things out of your way. Aside from Revoker, you'll also want a way to deal with Elves. GSZ with Teeg can shut off NO and GSZ on their side, while giving you a clear plan against Storm. You'll then need a tiny bit of white next to your land grants.
A GSZ package with Teeg, Scooze, and Arbor seems good here as well. I'll stew on it a bit as I haven't taken this idea seriously in quite a long time and Black Vice didn't exist before.
As an aside; I'm guessing people here haven't considered Tsabo's Decree either? Notice that it's "ok" on it's own, draws a card, whatever. But with Root Maze, they never untap that fetch, that waste, etc..
I stopped brewing on it because Blood Moon effects seem to get you most of the lockdown with none of the hassle.
Some of the numbers may be off. Either way, it was a blast, even if it was mediocre. I agree with Tangle Wire, was unimpressed with Spawnwrithe, and *loved* the synergy between the various Wolf-producing guys. (one pumps, one shoots them at things, one creates Deathtouch wolves and acts as removal.)
I think I'd take some ideas from this thread; but Mayor of Avabruck and Chrome Mox + Land Grant would have to stay. Mayor gets out of control very fast if you achieved even a turn of lock-down and works quite well in tandem with Chalice, Orb, and Tanglewire.
I think I'd use Bayous (4?) and use Land Grant as my fetch, going for Deathrite Shaman (extra combo protection) and forgo the Chalice. Regardless of that, I would probably use Revoker as well.
EDIT: You guys don't seem to know about Land Grant as an alternative to Fetches (and very cheap.)
EDIT2: Courser of Kruphix would be good in this deck.
Whether that means "reorganize" to you or not, I can't say.
It's not a targeted effect, so not finding a creature doesn't kill the ability. You just do as much as you can of the effect in the order it specifies until it's completed.