Honestly, I find Goofball's frustration to be quite genuine. That said, it took long enough for her to say things other than "YOU SCUM, MUST LYNCH".
I'll reserve comment on "it took this long for the Town tells to drop" because I've been pretty damn clear all Day and threw out just about every Town tell I have and probably some I don't. Though I'll grant that it's a lot easier to put things together now that there isn't a DYH-size hole in the game.
I'll place my bet on {kpaca, Iso, Voxxicus}. Voxxicus has the highest probability of being wrong, but the other options aren't very good.
The fun part of this prediction is that it agrees with Thor that prior to Voxxicus the wagon was Town-driven. By the worst Townies we've got, but nonetheless.
Quote from "Condoms 626" »
Well someone sure is upset about being dead.
Do keep posting these brilliant insights. They'll lynch you for it sometime in December.
kpaca's entrance was pretty much the equivalent of a scumclaim; I'd start there. No one replaces into a game, puts out feelers over whether they'd be able to hammer someone, and then does it over flimsy provocation. Even Fate would just hammer someone outright and cackle maniacally for another few posts.
Bonus points for doing so when four people were calling me Town without reservation. You don't normally see that kind of polarization, and when it does happen I'd suggest that the people who are calling Town are more informed on the subject than the ones calling scum. But even so, four people - everyone off the wagon except kpaca himself. Two of whom were off-the-table Town.
I would also like to point out that I can actually appreciate Cyouni's approach to things Today. The rest of you who didn't draw scum PMs should seriously reconsider ever calling yourself good players, because this was a pretty obvious Town lynch.
Did I say "pretty obvious"? I mean starkly, amazingly obvious.
If there's scum off the wagon, it pretty much has to be llamarble. So if llamarble is Town - which is unfortunately not especially unlikely - that means we have three scum on the wagon after all. Enjoy.
kpaca's entrance was pretty much the equivalent of a scumclaim; I'd start there. No one replaces into a game, puts out feelers over whether they'd be able to hammer someone, and then does it over flimsy provocation. Even Fate would just hammer someone outright and cackle maniacally for another few posts.
That leaves two in {Cyan, Thor, Goofball, Iso, Voxxicus, Cyouni}. I'm still going to strike Cyouni. I don't think Iso and Cyan are scum together. If neither of them are scum then that leaves two in {Thor, Goofball, Voxxicus}, and while it's a possibility I'm not so convinced in either Iso or Cyan (more so Iso) that it's solid.
If there's one scum in the bunch then it's a tough call between the guy who argues for its own sake, the foaming nutcase, and the flurker, and I don't feel prepared to make a call here.
So, largely for pinning it in the dead thread and banking that llamarble is being trollishly bad at being Town, I'll place my bet on {kpaca, Iso, Voxxicus}. Voxxicus has the highest probability of being wrong, but the other options aren't very good.
I don't consider this a point against Vi unless the person who referenced this (was it llama?) can provide some more context and Vi actually claims so we can determine if there's a situational difference that would have called for her early claim there and her stall claim now.
In response, I point to the wagon on me last game that completely fell apart.
Your move.
Different circumstances - you weren't the first and only wagon of the day, with all of the active players clamoring for your death, only your death, and nothing but your death. In addition, your claim wasn't the reason your wagon fell apart (at least it wasn't for me).
*turns egg timer over*
At that point, I was the only one who'd gotten to claim range. Regardless, that's irrelevant to your argument.
And according to your argument, I would have been policy lynched because I claimed vanilla, helped by the fact that not a single MTGS player was on my wagon. Yet there were no players attempting to do that.
Your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Your move.
Quote from "Cyan 433, CT1" »
MS players may not realize it(judging by KoL's post, their perspective on vanilla claims seems to be different than ours), but on here, when someone claims Vanilla, they generally get lynched. That is why Cyouni claiming Vanilla looks good for Cyouni. He didn't try to make up some claim and hope it works out, he just claimed his real role(though he obviously COULD be Vanilla Mafia) and hoped it would work out. This speaks well for him, IMO.
So there is this post (half of which I remembered). But see also (the same person, as Town <_< ) say this.
Quote from "Cyan 851, CT1" »
Claiming VT is why you wouldn't be lynched? What? Vanilla is a claim that should ALWAYS get lynched. It's a completely safe claim for a scum to make, and has a built in excuse for never getting NKed.
Quote from "Cyan 862, CT1" »
It's great to know that any scum can just claim Vanilla Town on MS and no one will ever look at them again. To me, THAT is 'sub-optimal'. And Doctor is nowhere near as 'safe' of a claim as Vanilla. It is a risky claim, because on our site, there is almost always a town Doc. So when you false-claim Doc as scum, you are usually just trying to draw a counterclaim from the real one so that your team can NK him. And said real Doc should ALWAYS counterclaim, because getting a 1 for 1 trade is completely acceptable for the town.
And, most importantly, Iso is from this site. He knows fully well that Vanilla is not a claim (around here) that keeps one from getting lynched.
And to head off your next point I'll go down to the next relevant quote.
Quote from "Cyan 869, CT1" »
Cyouni's behavior/claim was believable because he plainly expected to get lynched.
Iso's behavior is not believable because he expects us to believe that we were not going to lynch him with a VT claim.
from which you can generate a variety of counterpoints relevant to this game, not least of which was that Iso was Town, and the second of which being that I'm not actually that interested in acquiescing to a lynch, from which you can derive that I'm trying to avoid what happened to Iso.
In summary,
1) In case it's not evident I didn't carefully pore through the previous game because I have other things to do with my life (i.e. this post took up my morning),
2) I rather grossly miscounted how many people were pushing this, and
3) I recognize now more than ever that trying to work with Cyan was an idea with no hope from the beginning.
We might be [talking past each other], but at least I appear to be extroverting trying to understand your points. I can't even get you guys to fake that for me.
Sadly, getting you to acknowledge that we might be in mutual disbelief of each other's better efforts feels like a major accomplishment.
I don't know which would be worse, finding out later that I've been trying to convert scum or that this is your idea of a good-faith discussion.
Quote from "Thor 602" »
I disagree, and even if it's true you're still pointing out a lot of rather clear opinions about players - and then trying to make it sound like a brain bender to figure out what I'm saying.
I dunno, I managed to get a few too many of those wrong for that to be the case.
Remarkably, you're going out of your way to not help me with what I actually wanted to know, and what will probably be interesting to more than just me in the near future.
Quote from "Thor 602" »
We're not going to get any bounce while I think you're scum and am trying to lynch you - that's crazy talk. You need to defuse the case or get me going somewhere else first. That's basic strategy.
At this point I don't care what you think of my reads, because you're an obstacle at best. I'm interested in furthering my reads based in part on what scant little I can get out of the six obstinate stone statues on my wagon. If you have something that's actually helpful for figuring the game out, stop wasting everyone's time and get on with it.
I don't consider this a point against Vi unless the person who referenced this (was it llama?) can provide some more context and Vi actually claims so we can determine if there's a situational difference that would have called for her early claim there and her stall claim now.
In response, I point to the wagon on me last game that completely fell apart.
Your move.
Different circumstances - you weren't the first and only wagon of the day, with all of the active players clamoring for your death, only your death, and nothing but your death. In addition, your claim wasn't the reason your wagon fell apart (at least it wasn't for me).
I don't consider this a point against Vi unless the person who referenced this (was it llama?) can provide some more context and Vi actually claims so we can determine if there's a situational difference that would have called for her early claim there and her stall claim now.
My, my, my, MY
WAGON hits me - so hard
Makes me say - oh my lord
Thank you - for blessing me
With peeps who know me like Tammy
It feels good! when yer voted down
a part-time birdie from DRey Town
and I'm known - as such
a wagon even llamarble (uh!) won't touch
I TOLD you, Goofball - U can't touch this
Yeah, that's how we hangin' and you know - U can't touch this
Look at my av, (wo)maaaan - U can't touch this
Yo, let me bust the funky lyrics (U can't touch this)
Told to claim, advance
You got it to four, Iso wanna see dance
He moved - Cyan from heat
To get a fly bird to think with feet
Too earlay - hold on!
Push a little bit and let 'em know it's goin' on
Like that - Like that
Scum's on a mission so push me back
To say - that you're too much
That this is a mob (uh!) I can't touch
But seriously, yo - U can't touch this Why you lurkin', Cyan? - U can't touch this
Yo, start the Day, school's in, sucka! U can't touch this
Get someone Town a minute
They'll say you're wrong, like they already given
In hopes - you know
You talkin' 'bout a fluffbird, you talkin' 'bout inno
That's back - to the wall
Voxxy hasn't even explained at all
Or Thor - confused
Doesn't quite see that the Vi refused
To give - legit
I'm still here 'cuz Town don't quit
That's word, 'cuz you know... U Can't Touch This
♪ ♪ U Can't Touch This
♪ ♪ U Can't Touch This
Quote from "llamarble 585" »
You know, if DYH hammers then the collection of people off of Vi's wagon will be 100% of the supertownies. (supertown = usually obvtown very strong towngame)
That's me Tammy Vi Nacho and DC (by reputation anyway).
I don't consider this a point against Vi unless the person who referenced this (was it llama?) can provide some more context and Vi actually claims so we can determine if there's a situational difference that would have called for her early claim there and her stall claim now.
Actually what I'm saying is 'this is why i think that's not it'
And what I'm getting as answers are;
'Nah, that's it'
How about a third option. What say this conversation is going like (grossly simplified)
"Nah, that's not it."
"Yeah, that's it."
"Nah, that's not it."
"Yeah, that's it."
and that we're talking past each other. Yes?
Quote from "Thor 578" »
If someone else wants to say they're confused by my reads then I shall.
Quote from "Nachomamma8 486" »
[@Thor:] Remind me of your scumreads one more time?
And, sure, I'll hammer it in because that would make my cold heart so very happy. Let's look at your posts afterward.
Quote from "Thor 494" »
I agree with a lot of this, which makes me wonder why you've been picking at him so much because his push looks so legit to me and yet you've really felt like you've been selling this Cyan=scum thing for a while. Even just the way you're constantly belittling him...as though that's going to help you get a read on him. It feels like scum defensive tactics, not scumhunting.
~guessing~ this is Cyan-Town.
Quote from "Thor 494" »
Is this any different from town Goofball? Because if so, I may really lack meta awareness of Goofball.
This and others suggest Goofball-Town. You yourself said at some point that until Voxxicus showed up that the wagon looked Town-driven, so I'm ~guessing~ that you think Voxxicus is scum or at the very least not obviously Town.
510 contains nothing new.
518 contains nothing new.
529 contains nothing new.
Quote from "Thor 558" »
I almost want to call you town for this Nacho simply because it is the first time you looked like you've been working this game, and I'll admit that Llama has been useless and a dreck for the game thus far.
I'm ~guessing~ you're calling Nacho Town-to-null.
Quote from "Thor 571" »
Instead she half sheeped your defense of her.
Why?
I submit it's because it sounded good and had already been made and that there was never a deep thought about interacting with or attacking me, I think i was just attacked because I was there and she saw something she thought she could exploit. I think the story and the answers look uneven and pieced together because they are lies that are being woven into a narrative. I think that makes her scum.
This ~sounds~ like you're calling Nacho-Town to Vi-scum but that doesn't seem logically sound based on the reasons shown.
Quote from "Thor 571" »
Tammy has been up front in my opinion.
Nacho is...slightly doing it, but only recently.
desCoures...I'm amazed a few weak iso walls are really selling you, they don't feel that legit to me right now.
Town, bleh, scummish.
Thor 572 has nothing, and you're looking at Cyouni atm.
Well done, that contains zero reads I didn't already pick up on.
And the reason I want to know is because in the event that you're Town, your reads would be useful for bouncing mine off of (see: Goofball, and see below considering the people you're missing are Iso, kpaca, Voxxicus, and llamarble).
---
Here, out of the generosity of my heart I'll toss out my read set.
TOWN
Tammy
Nacho
|
|
Thor (god help me I hate this read being where it is)
Goofball (based entirely on Nacho's meta and to a lesser extent Thor's and my own)
Cyan (god help me I hate this read being where it is)
Cyouni
desCoures - neutral line goes here
Iso and kpaca
Voxxicus
llamarble (if I have to write a treatise on post 577 I will)
SCUM
I'll reserve comment on "it took this long for the Town tells to drop" because I've been pretty damn clear all Day and threw out just about every Town tell I have and probably some I don't. Though I'll grant that it's a lot easier to put things together now that there isn't a DYH-size hole in the game.
Do keep posting these brilliant insights.
Did I say "pretty obvious"? I mean starkly, amazingly obvious.
kpaca's entrance was pretty much the equivalent of a scumclaim; I'd start there. No one replaces into a game, puts out feelers over whether they'd be able to hammer someone, and then does it over flimsy provocation. Even Fate would just hammer someone outright and cackle maniacally for another few posts.
That leaves two in {Cyan, Thor, Goofball, Iso, Voxxicus, Cyouni}. I'm still going to strike Cyouni. I don't think Iso and Cyan are scum together. If neither of them are scum then that leaves two in {Thor, Goofball, Voxxicus}, and while it's a possibility I'm not so convinced in either Iso or Cyan (more so Iso) that it's solid.
If there's one scum in the bunch then it's a tough call between the guy who argues for its own sake, the foaming nutcase, and the flurker, and I don't feel prepared to make a call here.
So, largely for pinning it in the dead thread and banking that llamarble is being trollishly bad at being Town, I'll place my bet on {kpaca, Iso, Voxxicus}. Voxxicus has the highest probability of being wrong, but the other options aren't very good.
Signed,
mafiascum at large
In summary,
1) In case it's not evident I didn't carefully pore through the previous game because I have other things to do with my life (i.e. this post took up my morning),
2) I rather grossly miscounted how many people were pushing this, and
3) I recognize now more than ever that trying to work with Cyan was an idea with no hope from the beginning.
I don't know which would be worse, finding out later that I've been trying to convert scum or that this is your idea of a good-faith discussion.
I dunno, I managed to get a few too many of those wrong for that to be the case.
Remarkably, you're going out of your way to not help me with what I actually wanted to know, and what will probably be interesting to more than just me in the near future.
At this point I don't care what you think of my reads, because you're an obstacle at best. I'm interested in furthering my reads based in part on what scant little I can get out of the six obstinate stone statues on my wagon. If you have something that's actually helpful for figuring the game out, stop wasting everyone's time and get on with it.
*turns egg timer over*
QUALITY! scumhunting
My, my, my, MY
WAGON hits me - so hard
Makes me say - oh my lord
Thank you - for blessing me
With peeps who know me like Tammy
It feels good! when yer voted down
a part-time birdie from DRey Town
and I'm known - as such
a wagon even llamarble (uh!) won't touch
I TOLD you, Goofball - U can't touch this
Yeah, that's how we hangin' and you know - U can't touch this
Look at my av, (wo)maaaan - U can't touch this
Yo, let me bust the funky lyrics (U can't touch this)
Told to claim, advance
You got it to four, Iso wanna see dance
He moved - Cyan from heat
To get a fly bird to think with feet
Too earlay - hold on!
Push a little bit and let 'em know it's goin' on
Like that - Like that
Scum's on a mission so push me back
To say - that you're too much
That this is a mob (uh!) I can't touch
But seriously, yo - U can't touch this
Why you lurkin', Cyan? - U can't touch this
Yo, start the Day, school's in, sucka! U can't touch this
Get someone Town a minute
They'll say you're wrong, like they already given
In hopes - you know
You talkin' 'bout a fluffbird, you talkin' 'bout inno
That's back - to the wall
Voxxy hasn't even explained at all
Or Thor - confused
Doesn't quite see that the Vi refused
To give - legit
I'm still here 'cuz Town don't quit
That's word, 'cuz you know... U Can't Touch This
♪ ♪ U Can't Touch This
♪ ♪ U Can't Touch This
Break it down!
--
How about a third option. What say this conversation is going like (grossly simplified)
"Nah, that's not it."
"Yeah, that's it."
"Nah, that's not it."
"Yeah, that's it."
and that we're talking past each other. Yes?
#WINNING
And, sure, I'll hammer it in because that would make my cold heart so very happy. Let's look at your posts afterward.
510 contains nothing new.
518 contains nothing new.
529 contains nothing new.
I'm ~guessing~ you're calling Nacho Town-to-null.
This ~sounds~ like you're calling Nacho-Town to Vi-scum but that doesn't seem logically sound based on the reasons shown.
Town, bleh, scummish.
Thor 572 has nothing, and you're looking at Cyouni atm.
Conclusion:
Tammy
Cyan
Goofball
|
Nacho
|
Cyouni (goes somewhere)
|
desCoures
|
Vi
Well done, that contains zero reads I didn't already pick up on.
And the reason I want to know is because in the event that you're Town, your reads would be useful for bouncing mine off of (see: Goofball, and see below considering the people you're missing are Iso, kpaca, Voxxicus, and llamarble).
---
Here, out of the generosity of my heart I'll toss out my read set.
TOWN
Tammy
Nacho
|
|
Thor (god help me I hate this read being where it is)
Goofball (based entirely on Nacho's meta and to a lesser extent Thor's and my own)
Cyan (god help me I hate this read being where it is)
Cyouni
desCoures - neutral line goes here
Iso and kpaca
Voxxicus
llamarble (if I have to write a treatise on post 577 I will)
SCUM