Any suggestions for my sideboard for this weekend? Ghostflame Sliver is kinda a placeholder. It has the narrowest of utility against Ugin and Etched Champion.
I don't know if this was mentioned but 8 Rack section in primer is kinda funny
This deck is pure anti 8Rack
I don't know how 8 Rack player managed to get 25% winrate
I suppose it was played super bad by Leige player
Leige had 10 mainboard try-to-discard-this-lol cards: Loxodon, Liege, Souls. Don't play them and make 8Rack player cry
Liege had 6 mainboard answers to Bridge and Racks: Abrupt Decay, Qasali.
Voices and Finks are hard to deal with cards for 8 Rack because they have to spend 2 removals, which weakens their Liliana
8 Rack should have like 5% winrate for being super lucky
RG Tron. A bunch of people have been acting like it's dead with the Eye of Ugin ban, but frankly it's still there and while it's not AS powerful as it was, it's still just trucking along.
Tron was moved to tier1 recently. Still underrated? Or you don't read tiers?
Ok, I've been playing slivers ever since I started playing mtg again about 5 years ago in modern and gotta say this: This deck is good because of collected company
I've played a heavy dose of each variant that anyone could have ever come up with, and I can say that its been tough optimizing Bowman's list even further at this point (cept removing MD spellskites, never was a fan of that but it was a necessary evil back when twin was a thing). I really believe that removing Coco is a huge mistake as it gives us such an explosive boost and card advantage which I believe slivers was missing in all the years prior to that card's print.
That being said, @Timba I've actually played your list, and it was a list I heavily tested years ago (back when pod and twin were prominent). Back then, it was no good because those decks literally stomped this deck's yard. Although powerful, i've found it only powerful when left unchecked and un-disrupted which was a huge problem, even with 4x diffusion sliver main deck to deal with the removal. and TBH good players won't let your board state grow unchecked.
Now, I understand that the meta has changed drastically since then, but i still can't see a coco-less deck being superior to a coco deck. Aether vial, I can understand losing that card since it can make top decks really back and lose you the game when you just needed a bit of reach, but thats about it. Coco however, it just wins. I highly suggest at least adding that card to your deck.
Somehow I missed your post but I see it now
Could you post the list you played?
I doubt it was my last list. Because I stopped playing Diffusions a while ago and I think the deck made a step forward. And Mutagenics is another big step.
Since people tend to put Diffusions in this list and call it mine Id like to clarify my take on Diffusions
My list runs
'combat lords': Sidewinder, Galerider, Striking, Sinew, Predatory, Automaton, Image, Spined
'damage lords': Leeching, Blur
'just slivers': Mutavault, Virulent (which threatens to become a damage lord)
and protection: Mutagenics
Every combat lord makes it harder to block my creatures. Deck was designed to never stop attacking so ideally the only options for opponent are to take damage or chump block. 1/1 sliver for 1 is very efficient in this lord heavy build so Virulent comes in (and poisons are good too). Damage lords are good too after critical mass of combat lords is obtained. And Mutagenics are great because they provide protection without losing tempo.
Diffusion Slivers don't fit into this plan. By playing them I lose tempo, I deal less damage. It would be justifiable had they provide great protection. But they just make Path cost 2W or 2R for Bolt Abrupt Decay doesn't care and Phantasmal Image too. Opponent still gets my lord and I left with 1/1 sliver for 2. Protection becomes real with 2 Diffusions on the battlefield, but then I have 2 lords less and I can't attack. Not to mention its not realistic to get 2 Diffusions consistently and playing full set takes spots of other slivers.
Maybe I'm wrong but I played them and I felt they underperform constantly. The turning point was when I played several Jeskai Control matchups in a row. Diffusion supposed to be good vs removal, but my opponents didn't get it. When they wanted they killed my lords paying 2 more, when they wanted they killed my Diffusion and returned to usual Snapcaster-Bolt.
My vote goes to 8Rack and Slivers
I believe right builds perform on tier1 level of winrates
The feature of tier1 decks is that their decklists are polished. While 90% of decklists of tier3-4 decks are straight bad and 99% of them can be easily improved. So usually they perform worse than what they could.
What do you think are the most underrated decks in Modern? Of course tiers and winrates correlate but often there is a deck no one beleives in. People don't play it -> it doesn't put up results -> it is considered bad. Often bad declists are an issue. Deck X is considered bad because no one made a powerful and consistent decklist of it. Or someone did but no one knows about it or people don't believe its good. Deck exists as a noob brew until some pro writes an article or makes a good finish with it. There are a lot of examples: Lantern Control, Eggs, Eldrazi.
This list can win tournaments and it's only 80$. If you need to you can cut Ooze (replace with Garruk's Companion), 3 Treetops (2 Forests, 1 Garruk's Companion), Dismembers (Gut Shot), and Relic (Tormod's Crypt)
First, why did you decide to cut Wrench mind to 3?
At first I took numbers from Tom Ross's list
Then I realized I dont need 4th Wrench Mind, because its effectiveness quicklly diminishes after first resolved Wrench Mind. Also it costs BB which is a problem sometimes.
Why do you play Illness in the Ranks instead of a second Night of Souls' Betrayal?
Tokens are very hard to deal with and 4 mana is a lot for this build so Illness in the Ranks is better sometimes. Also Night of Souls' Betrayal is legendary.
Why 4x dismember instead of a more diverse removal suite?
I have 4 Dismember + 3 Funeral Charm + 4 Smallpox + 4 Liliana removal suite. Dismember is very good, it hits almost everything and can be cast off 1, 2 or 3 mana depending on our needs. I can see replacing one with Doom Blade, Disfigure, Go for the Throat, Victim of Night or Slaughter Pact.
Why nyxatid over lets say Asylum visitor?
Nyxathid is nuts vs fast aggro. Its ability to stop assualt and race decks that like to dump their hands fast is incomparable.
And its strictly a sideboard card while Visitor looks like good main, bad sideboard card. Also I mostly played when there was no Visitor.
I really like the Lifebane Zombie inclusion though, something I'm gonna start siding in for sure.
At first I was excited to see this card because it was a perfect answer to Obstinate Baloth and Loxodon Smiter - cards I really hated to see. Then I realized it wasnt a perfect sideboard card - its hard to catch these 4/4s with it and in the games I wanted to side in Zombie I usually wanted also to side in Flaying Tendrils. And Liliana is our best card. This leads to bad curve decisions so.. Zombie isnt exciting. Though its still decent because it can hit hard, exchange with something good and often its 2 for 1.
Also, why Flaying Tendrils over Drown in Sorrow? Is the exile part that big?
It exiles Voice of Resurgence and Kitchen Finks - cards this build struggles to deal with
@Esperino
Most of the times Smallpox only requires opponent to have a creature to be decent.
I was playing 2 lifebanes in the board the last IQ I top 8'd and it was just kind of luck i hit baloth in one of the matches with it. This is what im running at the open next weekend. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/08-05-16-8rack/
Has nyxathid actually been that effective against decks like zoo?
Very effective (fast zoo)
Decklist: I consider cutting Raven's Crime to 3 a big mistake. I dont like Damnations very much but with 24 lands it should be easier to cast. I'd say your list is too light on cheap removal like Funeral CHarm, Disfigure, Darkblast with Affinity and Infect being t1
First, why did you decide to cut Wrench mind to 3?
At first I took numbers from Tom Ross's list
Then I realized I dont need 4th Wrench Mind, because its effectiveness quicklly diminishes after first resolved Wrench Mind. Also it costs BB which is a problem sometimes.
Why do you play Illness in the Ranks instead of a second Night of Souls' Betrayal?
Tokens are very hard to deal with and 4 mana is a lot for this build so Illness in the Ranks is better sometimes. Also Night of Souls' Betrayal is legendary.
Why 4x dismember instead of a more diverse removal suite?
I have 4 Dismember + 3 Funeral Charm + 4 Smallpox + 4 Liliana removal suite. Dismember is very good, it hits almost everything and can be cast off 1, 2 or 3 mana depending on our needs. I can see replacing one with Doom Blade, Disfigure, Go for the Throat, Victim of Night or Slaughter Pact.
Why nyxatid over lets say Asylum visitor?
Nyxathid is nuts vs fast aggro. Its ability to stop assualt and race decks that like to dump their hands fast is incomparable.
And its strictly a sideboard card while Visitor looks like good main, bad sideboard card. Also I mostly played when there was no Visitor.
I really like the Lifebane Zombie inclusion though, something I'm gonna start siding in for sure.
At first I was excited to see this card because it was a perfect answer to Obstinate Baloth and Loxodon Smiter - cards I really hated to see. Then I realized it wasnt a perfect sideboard card - its hard to catch these 4/4s with it and in the games I wanted to side in Zombie I usually wanted also to side in Flaying Tendrils. And Liliana is our best card. This leads to bad curve decisions so.. Zombie isnt exciting. Though its still decent because it can hit hard, exchange with something good and often its 2 for 1.
Also, why Flaying Tendrils over Drown in Sorrow? Is the exile part that big?
It exiles Voice of Resurgence and Kitchen Finks - cards this build struggles to deal with
@Esperino
Most of the times Smallpox only requires opponent to have a creature to be decent.
@GreySavant
Though Ancient Ziggurat is ok as lifesaving land in my build, I wouldnt play Ancient Ziggurat with Aether Vials. It already has antisynergy with Mutavault and Sliver Hive.
You dropped 3 Phantasmal Images and 3 Spined Slivers and added 1 Striking, 1 Gemhide, 3 Diffusion, I dont approve this) I tested Diffusion and I found it weak. If I would run Vials I would elevate manacurve, not lower it. So I'd add Blur, Mirror Entity or other powerful 3cmc sliver, not Striking. Gemhide Sliver is against deck's strategy of relentless assault. Mutagenic Growth is excellent in vialless build, but I would reconsider them with Vials in.
@ekienhol Burn without Searing Blazes is bad Burn and I have pros to back me up. Best number is 4, 3 is ok, but 4 is better. Anything below 3 is a bad Burn.
I playtested 8Rack on xmage for half a year and got these results
65% game winrate, ~72% match winrate
I assume this proves Smallpox build is good Rax 305:161
Aggro 138:94
Affinity 6:6
Bogles 2:2
Burn 21:9
Death Cloud 2:0
Delver 6:3
DnT 8:5
Dredge 0:4
Eldrazi pre ban 7:4
Eldrazi post ban 5:4
Elves 8:6
Free Win Red 2:1
Green Stompy 2:4
Goblins 2:1
GWx Liege 0:4
Hatebears 0:2
Jund 14:7
Junk 7:4
Mardu Tempo 2:0
Merfolks 3:1
Scavenge 2:1
Soul Sisters 4:1
Suicide Zoo 1:0
Tokens 4:3
UB Mill 1:0
Werewolves 2:0
White Weenie 6:1
Zombies 3:2
Zoo 3:13
Other 15:6
Control 82:35
Black Infect 3:0
UR Control 5:1
Faeries 2:2
Grixis Control 12:5
Jeskai Skred Control 2:1
Land Destruction 4:0
Lantern Control 4:1
MonoU Extra Turns 4:1
MonoU Tron 2:3
UW Tron 0:2
Spirits 2:1
Rax 8:3
RG Tron 6:4
UWx Control 19:9
White Prison 1:1
Other 8:1
I started with 1 more Swamp instead of Funeral Charm but I like the swap. No more changes in main
Sideboard didnt have many changes either
Removed Darkblast since I have many Funeral Charms and Disfigures
Removed Damnation because I rarely wanted it and when I wanted it it was unreliable due to high cmc
Removed Deathmark, narrow and sorcery
how is this possible
sites like this should be profitable
if they lose money on it, they should sell it
if they cant part with engine or something else, copy forum database to a new site with free engine, make some banners and be profitable
+ 1x Syphon Sliver
optional
- 1x Mutagenic Growth
+ 1x Thorn of Amethyst (maybe Ethersworn Canonist)
This deck is pure anti 8Rack
I don't know how 8 Rack player managed to get 25% winrate
I suppose it was played super bad by Leige player
Leige had 10 mainboard try-to-discard-this-lol cards: Loxodon, Liege, Souls. Don't play them and make 8Rack player cry
Liege had 6 mainboard answers to Bridge and Racks: Abrupt Decay, Qasali.
Voices and Finks are hard to deal with cards for 8 Rack because they have to spend 2 removals, which weakens their Liliana
8 Rack should have like 5% winrate for being super lucky
Somehow I missed your post but I see it now
Could you post the list you played?
I doubt it was my last list. Because I stopped playing Diffusions a while ago and I think the deck made a step forward. And Mutagenics is another big step.
Since people tend to put Diffusions in this list and call it mine Id like to clarify my take on Diffusions
My list runs
'combat lords': Sidewinder, Galerider, Striking, Sinew, Predatory, Automaton, Image, Spined
'damage lords': Leeching, Blur
'just slivers': Mutavault, Virulent (which threatens to become a damage lord)
and protection: Mutagenics
Every combat lord makes it harder to block my creatures. Deck was designed to never stop attacking so ideally the only options for opponent are to take damage or chump block. 1/1 sliver for 1 is very efficient in this lord heavy build so Virulent comes in (and poisons are good too). Damage lords are good too after critical mass of combat lords is obtained. And Mutagenics are great because they provide protection without losing tempo.
Diffusion Slivers don't fit into this plan. By playing them I lose tempo, I deal less damage. It would be justifiable had they provide great protection. But they just make Path cost 2W or 2R for Bolt Abrupt Decay doesn't care and Phantasmal Image too. Opponent still gets my lord and I left with 1/1 sliver for 2. Protection becomes real with 2 Diffusions on the battlefield, but then I have 2 lords less and I can't attack. Not to mention its not realistic to get 2 Diffusions consistently and playing full set takes spots of other slivers.
Maybe I'm wrong but I played them and I felt they underperform constantly. The turning point was when I played several Jeskai Control matchups in a row. Diffusion supposed to be good vs removal, but my opponents didn't get it. When they wanted they killed my lords paying 2 more, when they wanted they killed my Diffusion and returned to usual Snapcaster-Bolt.
I believe right builds perform on tier1 level of winrates
The feature of tier1 decks is that their decklists are polished. While 90% of decklists of tier3-4 decks are straight bad and 99% of them can be easily improved. So usually they perform worse than what they could.
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Forest
3 Mountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
Creatures (30)
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Experiment One
4 Flinthoof Boar
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
4 Dryad Militant
4 Kird Ape
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Atarka's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Mutagenic Growth
1 Rancor
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Gut Shot
2 Pillar of Flame
1 Electrickery
1 Flame Slash
3 Faerie Macabre / Tormod's Crypt
2 Tin Street Hooligan
Dont play it, its weak and inconsistent.
Play Green Stompy instead, one of the greatest budget decks.
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Dryad Militant
4 Experiment One
4 Kalonian Tusker
4 Leatherback Baloth
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Avatar of the Resolute
2 Prey Upon
4 Rancor
4 Vines of Vastwood
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Unravel the Æther
2 Hunt the Hunter
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Bow of Nylea
2 Dismember
3 Feed the Clan
T1 T2
W 3 6
U 2 5
B 3 5
R 4 7
G 6 6
Total 6 11
Blue is least represented by this metric. So what? Blue is <a stupid> color. Everything is fine. For the first time in magic.
Very effective (fast zoo)
Decklist: I consider cutting Raven's Crime to 3 a big mistake. I dont like Damnations very much but with 24 lands it should be easier to cast. I'd say your list is too light on cheap removal like Funeral CHarm, Disfigure, Darkblast with Affinity and Infect being t1
I will gladly share my experience
First, why did you decide to cut Wrench mind to 3?
At first I took numbers from Tom Ross's list
Then I realized I dont need 4th Wrench Mind, because its effectiveness quicklly diminishes after first resolved Wrench Mind. Also it costs BB which is a problem sometimes.
Why do you play Illness in the Ranks instead of a second Night of Souls' Betrayal?
Tokens are very hard to deal with and 4 mana is a lot for this build so Illness in the Ranks is better sometimes. Also Night of Souls' Betrayal is legendary.
Why 4x dismember instead of a more diverse removal suite?
I have 4 Dismember + 3 Funeral Charm + 4 Smallpox + 4 Liliana removal suite. Dismember is very good, it hits almost everything and can be cast off 1, 2 or 3 mana depending on our needs. I can see replacing one with Doom Blade, Disfigure, Go for the Throat, Victim of Night or Slaughter Pact.
Why nyxatid over lets say Asylum visitor?
Nyxathid is nuts vs fast aggro. Its ability to stop assualt and race decks that like to dump their hands fast is incomparable.
And its strictly a sideboard card while Visitor looks like good main, bad sideboard card. Also I mostly played when there was no Visitor.
I really like the Lifebane Zombie inclusion though, something I'm gonna start siding in for sure.
At first I was excited to see this card because it was a perfect answer to Obstinate Baloth and Loxodon Smiter - cards I really hated to see. Then I realized it wasnt a perfect sideboard card - its hard to catch these 4/4s with it and in the games I wanted to side in Zombie I usually wanted also to side in Flaying Tendrils. And Liliana is our best card. This leads to bad curve decisions so.. Zombie isnt exciting. Though its still decent because it can hit hard, exchange with something good and often its 2 for 1.
Also, why Flaying Tendrils over Drown in Sorrow? Is the exile part that big?
It exiles Voice of Resurgence and Kitchen Finks - cards this build struggles to deal with
@Esperino
Most of the times Smallpox only requires opponent to have a creature to be decent.
RG Tron promoted to Tier 1 from Tier 2
Though Ancient Ziggurat is ok as lifesaving land in my build, I wouldnt play Ancient Ziggurat with Aether Vials. It already has antisynergy with Mutavault and Sliver Hive.
You dropped 3 Phantasmal Images and 3 Spined Slivers and added 1 Striking, 1 Gemhide, 3 Diffusion, I dont approve this) I tested Diffusion and I found it weak. If I would run Vials I would elevate manacurve, not lower it. So I'd add Blur, Mirror Entity or other powerful 3cmc sliver, not Striking. Gemhide Sliver is against deck's strategy of relentless assault. Mutagenic Growth is excellent in vialless build, but I would reconsider them with Vials in.
@ekienhol Burn without Searing Blazes is bad Burn and I have pros to back me up. Best number is 4, 3 is ok, but 4 is better. Anything below 3 is a bad Burn.
65% game winrate, ~72% match winrate
I assume this proves Smallpox build is good
Rax 305:161
Aggro 138:94
Affinity 6:6
Bogles 2:2
Burn 21:9
Death Cloud 2:0
Delver 6:3
DnT 8:5
Dredge 0:4
Eldrazi pre ban 7:4
Eldrazi post ban 5:4
Elves 8:6
Free Win Red 2:1
Green Stompy 2:4
Goblins 2:1
GWx Liege 0:4
Hatebears 0:2
Jund 14:7
Junk 7:4
Mardu Tempo 2:0
Merfolks 3:1
Scavenge 2:1
Soul Sisters 4:1
Suicide Zoo 1:0
Tokens 4:3
UB Mill 1:0
Werewolves 2:0
White Weenie 6:1
Zombies 3:2
Zoo 3:13
Other 15:6
Control 82:35
Black Infect 3:0
UR Control 5:1
Faeries 2:2
Grixis Control 12:5
Jeskai Skred Control 2:1
Land Destruction 4:0
Lantern Control 4:1
MonoU Extra Turns 4:1
MonoU Tron 2:3
UW Tron 0:2
Spirits 2:1
Rax 8:3
RG Tron 6:4
UWx Control 19:9
White Prison 1:1
Other 8:1
Combo 85:32
Abzan Company 10:2
Conflip Combo 2:0
Eggs 7:1
Gx Ramp 19:5
Infect 9:9
Jeskai Ascendancy 3:1
Kiki-Chord 2:0
Living End 4:2
Nivix Combo 2:0
Polymorph Combo 0:2
Reanimator/Breach 6:1
Scapeshift 2:4
Storm 3:0
Treasure Hunt 1:1
Twin 8:2
Other 7:2
Mostly I used this decklist
1x Dakmor Salvage
4x Mutavault
14x Swamp
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Raven's Crime
4x Smallpox
3x Thoughtseize
3x Wrench Mind
4x Shrieking Affliction
4x The Rack
4x Dismember
3x Funeral Charm
4x Liliana of the Veil
1x Bile Blight
2x Disfigure
2x Flaying Tendrils
1x Illness in the Ranks
1x Leyline of the Void
1x Night of Souls' Betrayal
2x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Nyxathid
1x Lifebane Zombie
2x Waste Not
Sideboard didnt have many changes either
Removed Darkblast since I have many Funeral Charms and Disfigures
Removed Damnation because I rarely wanted it and when I wanted it it was unreliable due to high cmc
Removed Deathmark, narrow and sorcery