2019 Holiday Exchange!
 
A New and Exciting Beginning
 
The End of an Era
  • posted a message on Rules question, beating control
    Boseiju, Who Shelters All
    Cavern of Souls
    Grand Abolisher

    Just off the top of my head. Also, as mentioned above, targeted and mass discard does work wonders against Control as their strength is typically predicated on having more answers than you have threats. Castigate, Sin Collector, and Tidehollow Sculler come to mind in Orzhov colors, though there are plenty of effects like these in Black. Identity Crisis is particularly nasty if they happen to be tapped out or if you're using the aforementioned Boseiju land.

    There's also cards that tax noncreature spells such as Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Thorn of Amethyst, Glowrider and Vryn Wingmare. Bear in mind that these effects also affect you and everyone else at the table so are better in decks with high creature density.

    Another strategy to use would be something that limits their ability to draw since, as I mentioned, control's power comes from card advantage generally. Spirit of the Labyrinth is good for that.

    EDIT:
    A note about card advantage: Counter spells are almost always trading 1-for-1 with a tempo advantage(in that a 2 mana counterspell can counter a 6+ CMC spell). But one of the more important parts of playing vs. control after your threats have resolved is to not overextend on the board. As a control player(see my avatar and sig banner for reference..), the number one most satisfying play other than countering a huge spell is to Wrath a board full of creatures or Vandalblast an absolutely huge amount of artifacts. As the control player you have now traded ONE card for an entire board full of permanents. Of course, not spilling your hand goes against a lot of the "spirit" of EDH but if someone is playing control it is something to be wary of.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Random Card of the Day - HIATUS
    Veiled Sentry- Seems pretty decent. Anything with a low mana cost is worth considering as an effect. It counts as an enchantment while also being a beater/blocker at times for U. I could see it run in some sort of Stax/Pillowfort type deck that punishes casting creatures or creatures entering the battlefield since it's already on the battlefield and won't trigger those types of effects.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on What Is Your Least Favorite Card To Play Against?
    Not my least favorite card, but every time I've seen a turn 1 Serra Ascendant I've definitely been pretty annoyed.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on What Is Your Least Favorite Card To Play Against?
    Quote from Kryptnyt »
    Quote from Cabz »


    Them: "Okay this is going to make infinite mana and then I will cast my entire hand"
    Me: "Sure...Show me."


    In paper I'd consider this rude and salty behavior, but on MTGO the play clock represents a restriction on deckbuilding that I'm willing to enforce to a certain degree.



    Of course it is. But if we're establishing that EDH is primarily a more casual format then I don't want to see your infinite combos anymore than I want to see too much MLD or constant usage of Winter Orb. If we are deciding to play at a more competitive level then I would probably not behave in such a way but to me there is an unspoken rule about at least making your deck have some form of interaction and when someone shows up to the table(online or not) with sunrise eggs or some such then I feel no remorse for making them do exactly what they set out to do. They came to the table to play solitaire with their combo deck and I will gladly sit by and watch, play clock or no.


    edit:

    Quote from elfric »
    Quote from Cabz »



    Yep, this. I seriously don't understand people who do this. The whole point of MTG is to play a strategy game; Possibility Storm turns it into essentially "roll the dice, whoever gets lucky wins."
    "

    i do not agree.
    it is much more like blood moon when used correct.
    in my meta there is a maelstrom wanderer deck that can drop this and disrupts all combo decks. some decks like karador do not care that much and can even profit. casting from grave and commandzone doesnt change some. but you can cast a llanowar elves and get a iona, shield of emeria from hand.
    the wanderer player can cast a ponder and hit a wildfire or time warp. also wanderer gets his cascades and can outvalue everyone.
    so it can be better than blood moon but there might be less decks to get its full potential use.

    it can also give the game some quick powerchange if a player has only and handfull of targets and this way can kinda cheat in the mightier card like with a tutor and manacheat. likely as accident only.
    example you have mystic remora in hand and your opponent plays PS. if your only other enchantment is omniscience you "tinker" it into play.


    I think you're missing the conversation that I was quoting, as I agree that there are times and places where Possibility Storm can be used strategically, but when people throw it in completely random it just takes away the primary objective of Magic: Strategy.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on What Is Your Least Favorite Card To Play Against?
    Quote from PhroX »
    Quote from 75chan »
    Quote from d0su »
    Quote from TetzaHexloq »
    Possibility Storm cause the decks that utilise it never really suffer from it and i pack alot of reactive cards that pretty much become useless under its effects.
    This. I hate Possibility Storm. It bothers me even more that everyone else seems to like it.


    I don't mind Possibility Storm when it's used properly, but if you're using it because lolsorandom then yeah, this card can go away. But that goes for all lolsorandom cards and at least this one has legitimate use unlike stuff like Whims of the Fates.


    My thoughts exactly. If you're playing a general that gets around or even potentially benefits from PS (Mishra, Zada, Melek etc.), then I've no problem with seeing it as it's a powerful tool that helps you win. But those people that just throw it into any deck just because annoy me.



    Yep, this. I seriously don't understand people who do this. The whole point of MTG is to play a strategy game; Possibility Storm turns it into essentially "roll the dice, whoever gets lucky wins."

    With that said, and this is kind of tangential, I really don't like people that play Combo in EDH. And I'm not talking about obscure combos, but 2-card or 3-card combos. Why are you playing singleton if the goal of your deck is to draw(or more likely.. tutor/search) 2 or 3 cards that happen to interact in a way that wins the game for you. Where is the fun in that for anyone? Though I will say that when people end up playing combos like this, particularly infinite mana combos, I make them sit there and do all the steps and not scoop as "punishment".

    Them: "Okay this is going to make infinite mana and then I will cast my entire hand"
    Me: "Sure...Show me."
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Random Card of the Day - HIATUS
    The type of card you'd play with as a beginner, but once you know anything about Magic you realize how outclassed it is. Llanowar Behemoth
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Just for Fun: What are your "auto-includes?"
    Not sure if this qualifies with your description but figured I'd post anyway.

    Every white deck I play finds a way to utilize Stoneforge Mystic. Probably my favorite ever Modern card before she got banned, I've loved equipment since I started playing Magic circa 2001.

    In any of my Blue decks an almost auto-include is Recurring Insight. I just get so much value out of this card, I often find myself using Mystical Tutor to fetch it in a majority of my games.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Random Card of the Day - HIATUS
    Quote from 256k »
    As it stands, Ashes to Ashes and Cannibalize are my two go-to exile sorceries in black. They're both 2-for-1s (though both can be blanked by not having a second target available).


    How is Cannibalize a 2-for-1?
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on What Is Your Least Favorite Card To Play Against?
    Just a pet peeve of mind, but I can't stand when people use my deck to cast my spells. Gonti, Lord of Luxury is the first card that comes to mind, though cards like Grenzo, Havoc Raiser and such get on my nerves as well. It's not the end of the world or anything but it does irk me.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Battle for Zendikar duals vs Amonkhet duals?
    Having a land come into play tapped when you need it untapped can make or break you at times. With that said BfZ are superior. Of course, if you are running a very low amount of basic lands in something like a 4 or 5 color deck and can't support the BfZ lands to come into play untapped then the cyclelands are going to be better... but in that case I think you're better off running a different type of dual land. You can only run so many CIPT lands.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Anointed Procession


    So between this card and Parallel Lives there are subtle differences in the language used but is there any situation that Anointed Procession would affect where Parallel Lives would not? Specifically regarding the "battlefield". What tokens are there that are not on the battlefield?

    I can't think of any myself but just wondering why there would be a discrepancy of language.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Is Superfriends Worth It?
    The problem with Superfriends archetype in multiplayer commander is as Yatsufusa said above, you end up playing a different deck entirely, that just happens to have Planeswalkers in it.

    Planeswalkers are absolutely hated out by everyone with creatures on board in almost all situations. I mean, think about it.. if you could attack Artifacts + Enchantments to destroy them you probably would. Planeswalkers are just like enchantments with activated abilities and a health total. So yes. Now your deck is Stax/Pillowfort. If you wanted to play those archetypes with Planeswalker support, then you're in luck. But it will never be an effective/pleasant experience playing the version of "Superfriends" that you probably have in your mind.

    With that said, I'm not an expert on Planeswalker decks and there might be a good way to run them without going overboard on Stax/Pillowfort or Tutor-For-DoublingSeason.dec, but not that I know of nor would assume.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [SCD] Ranger of Eos
    Quote from Onering »
    I'm not sure how a card that grabs both Serra Ascendant and Weathered Wayfarer to your hand on turn 2 off Sol Ring isn't considered a staple. I get that he doesn't fetch any instant win combo, but damn that's a lot of power. I'd keep nearly any hand with both those cards in it, and ranger gives you both in one card, plus a 3/2. And optionality, if you need to grab something else based on the situation. It's an easy to cast three for one that double tutors for on color staples. That's bonkers.


    I'm not really sure if judging a card's usefulness on turn 2 with a Sol Ring is correct. That's nice and all but there are plenty of other 4 drops that are great plays on turn 2 as well, in that case.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Loot & Reanimate (Oloro, Ageless Asectic)
    Quote from Honor Basquiat »

    Thanks for taking the time to read over my list, I certainly put quite a bit of time and effort into creating this tread. You certainly have offered some great constructive feedback.


    Thanks for being receptive and taking it well! Now that we've got my criticisms of the list out of the way we can talk about card optimizations and maneuvering the direction of both our decks.

    Quote from Honor Basquiat »

    I don not believe Intuition and Entomb are tutors. I also don't consider Polluted Delta to be a tutor. They certainly are not tutors like Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, or Mystical Tutor. Intuition gives our opponent a (limited) choice in the matter. Entomb is on theme and forces the card into the graveyard (a vulnerable place). Demonic Tutor and Vampiric Tutor are much more powerful cards for many reasons (we don't have to reveal the card, we can use the card we tutored for later, much more versatile in what it can tutor, etc.). Ultimately I feel that tutors like Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Mystical Tutor, are incredibly powerful and violate the spirit of the "singleton, every game should be different" format to some regard. Sure, it's a little hypocritical I guess, but Entomb is on theme and it along with Intuition are less powerful, less overused and less versatile than traditional tutors you recommended.

    Previously I was playing a different Oloro, Ageless Asectic that was more of a combo variant. I ran all the tutors you mentioned (among others) and the deck over performed. It literally was winning all the games and I felt it was boring because every game I would run into tutors and I would also be able to find the perfect answer or I would be able to win/combo out. Part of what I enjoy about piloting this deck is it runs fairly consistently, but no game is exactly the same.

    That's fair enough, and if that's the way you want to pilot your deck then I have no issues with it. Though I will say that while I could live without Vampiric Tutor and Mystical Tutor, I would never cut Enlightened Tutor from my deck. Being able to fetch Animate Dead or Necromancy in a pinch has been so clutch for me. Though I also run less density of reanimation spells, favoring only the most efficient ones.


    Quote from Honor Basquiat »

    I don't want to cut the looters. I would almost say that would a nonstarter. I originally built this deck as a top down "Tribal Looters" deck, and I love seeing players gawk at Thought Courier because they have never played against the card and they refuse to take it seriously. I believe you are severely underestimating the idea of a Thought Courier flying under the radar for several turns and getting massive value out of it. You can say they are slow, but they very frequently enable turn 3 or 4 reanimation of a bomb. They also can block in a pinch and have synergy with Sun Titan. Yes, they are susceptible to board wipes, but players aren't going to waste a Path To Exile, Swords To Plowshares or Terminate on a Merfolk Looter so the "fly under the radar" notion is real. Another thing I like about my list is whether it's playing looters or playing mana rocks, I almost always have something to do in the early game. Perhaps you are right that I shouldn't consider this a "semi-competitive" list, but considering the amount of value ($$$) in the deck along with many of the powerful cards, I wouldn't consider it a casual deck. It can certainly hold up against lists that are more competitive. I have brought Loot & Reanimate to circles that identify as casual and card shops I don't frequent and the deck overperforms/dominates. It certainly is stronger than most "Casual" lists on MTG Salvation.


    Alright. Here's my issue with looters in MY list, though I do understand that they create the thematic foundation for your list and thus why you wouldn't cut them; but I would never let them touch my deck lol.

    In analyzing cards for my EDH decks, one of the largest considerations beyond efficiency, value, etc. is asking myself:
    What does this card do for me when I am behind or in an unfavorable position in the game?

    Comparing cards like Thought Courier as my draw for the turn versus Careful Study, Frantic Search, Thirst for Knowledge, Fact or Fiction, etc. is that looters, while certainly good at developing card quality over time, just do not do enough to assist me in tight spots. And yet I still have the looting effects that I am interest in without running the creature version.

    While I will concede that as a turn 2 play, any of the creature looters that you have listed are a great play and can absolutely create discreet value, I have to take my analysis beyond turn 2 and realize that late in the game, these cards are going to be severely under-performing. This is a philosophy of mine that I extend to all of my Commander/EDH decks, and the same reason why I do not run any sort of Mana Dorks in my green decks unless they have some other sort of synergy.

    Quote from Honor Basquiat »

    I agree with your assessment of what the best reanimation spells are, but I don't find myself only wanting to reanimate only 2 or 3 times a game. This is especially true in a 4 or 5 person game that can last 45 minutes or even over an hour. Sometimes I will use the extra reanimation spells I encounter to block and trade with something, knowing I can bring a creature back or I may sacrifice Ashen Rider with Phyrexian Tower so I can use another Reanimation spell. I also think instant speed reanimation spell Makeshift Mannequin and Miraculous Recovery (which I am no longer running). More importantly, if I am not playing tutors, I can't pilot a reanimator deck with only 4 or 5 reanimation spells (Entomb can only find Unburial Rites, Intuition would seldom if ever search for a reanimation spell aside from Unburial Rites).


    I think this is where the design of our decks meet a more severe divergence(while still fulfilling similar roles), and this is just due to our individual preferences. I am more interested in running less threats but ensuring their stickiness while it seems you are content with reanimating the same cards multiple times a game. That's completely fine. I just prefer having more answers, but again that is more to speak that I am using more tutors and so I am able to have a more reactive approach. But nothing wrong with it either way.


    Quote from Honor Basquiat »

    Fact or Fiction is a great suggestion that I've been meaning to make room for, but I'm not sure where to fit it. I don't like that it costs 4 mana. Aside from my win conditions and Alhammarret's Archive (which has fantastic synergy with the looters). Sphinx of Uthuun is good and certainly has been on my short list. I will add it to the "Other Options" section in the near future.


    Alright, onto the meat and potatoes of what we should be discussing; card selection! I think its effect for 4 mana is well worth the cost. Even if we didn't have great interaction with our graveyard, Fact or Fiction represents 2-4 cards worth of draw PLUS card quality. That's a lot for 4 mana, in my opinion. And Sphinx of Uthuun is the same thing on a flying beater body that is repeatable with our deck tech. I think you should definitely plug him in for one of your more under-performing creatures and try it out. His value really tends to be noticeable more so in practice than on paper. I.E. Once you reanimate him, you'll never take him out again. Wink

    Quote from Honor Basquiat »

    Consecrated Sphinx is good but not strictly better that Sire Stagnation (although it generally is superior). Consecrated Sphinx has weaker stats including a power of only 4. I play it in my mono blue list and I feel the card is overplayed and draws more hate than Sire Stagnation does. If players don't have an immediate answer to Sire Stagnation, they will sometimes sit on their lands which is very significant. Sire Stagnation also hoses fetch lands and ramp which is a lot of fun (one game I flashed in Necromancy to bring back Sire Stagnation in response to a player casting Boundless Realms.


    So in fringe situations that like, sure. I am exaggerating a bit of course about C. Sphinx being better in ALL situations. And also its a nightmare for him to be bribed/cloned, which is not something to be overlooked. However, Sire of Stagnation is just that... he creates stagnation. Which is definitely a strategy.. but is it ours? This is not a stax deck, nor is it a tempo deck. While reanimating him on turn 3/4 is surely going to put a dent in your opponent's plans, outside of the ideal situation(i.e. turn 6 or later) is he really doing much? People can forgo their land drops, probably have a ton of mana/mana rocks already, and can just wait for him to be destroyed, whereas Consecrated Sphinx MUST be answered. There's no time to wait. If he even lives for TWO opponents draw steps they are already buried in card advantage, let alone if you get to untap with him. Then it is game over. That is the value of C.Sphinx, and why Sire just doesn't hold a candle. And furthermore, I disagree with your assessment of stats. Sure, Sphinx is a 4/6 and Sire a 5/7, but flying is worth well more than 1/1 worth of stats. Evasion = better protection AND better chance to get damage in or be able to hit a planeswalker. But of course, the body is not really relevant anyway.

    Quote from Honor Basquiat »

    How do you feel about non creature looting cards like Careful Study and Frantic Search? I guess if I had to remove some of the looters, I'd consider replacing them with more effects like these.


    As I said earlier, stone cold nuts. I wish there were more effects like these. Sadly I think Thirst for Knowledge is as close as it gets, but what can you do? Magic cards were stronger back then.

    I'll post my list when I'm less lazy, haha. Also once I post my list I'll go into more depth about my card choices/exclusions and differences between our lists. But for now I leave you with this.

    Also, I'm reaaaaaaally leaning towards finding a slot for Snapcaster Mage. So many games I find spells sitting in my graveyard that I want to recur so badly, but I don't have the ability.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • posted a message on Loot & Reanimate (Oloro, Ageless Asectic)
    First off, very nice write-up. I share your/your playgroups philosophy of not being too oppressive or degenerate, and I also play Oloro so this is a great thread for discussion for me. I do have some critiques and suggestions however, so I'd like to hear your opinion.

    While I understand not wanting to use tutors, you end up contradicting yourself by playing both Entomb and Intuition. Any way you slice it, these are both tutors. Sure, they aren't Demonic Tutor, but the effect is the same- ripping cards out of your library. With that said, I don't agree that tutors themselves should be ruled out. After all, every color has access to them in some capacity, and you're only diluting your game plan by not using them.

    It's noteworthy that because you don't use enough tutors, your deck ends up being extremely redundant when it doesn't need to be. You are running FIVE creature-looters, and ELEVEN(!?) reanimation spells, with only 13 targets in your entire deck. This means you're going to end up drawing way too many copies of essentially the same card when in reality you only need to cast that type of spell 1-3 times a game, at most.

    First off, I would argue that every single creature-looter needs to be cut from the list, with the exception of baby Jace. They are just way too low impact, terrible top-decks, do nothing the turn they are played, and also get removed by pings and board clears. This makes them incredibly inefficient slots in your deck. You could argue that they "go under the radar", but that is not enough reason for inclusion in a truly Competitive or Semi-Competitive list.

    Second, you are running far too many reanimation spells-- this is hindering your ability to pack your deck with much more answers. In reality, you should only need to be casting a reanimation spell 1-3, MAYBE 4 times a game. And that's not counting games where your graveyard is being hated out. Being stuck with a hand full of reanimation and no cards in your graveyard seems like a foregone conclusion with the way the deck is built. Actively protecting your own creatures post-Reanimation is a much better and safer route than having to recast reanimation spells the entire match. It also gives you more variables to work with when things aren't exactly going your way. After all, an additional counter or removal spell can be used practically any time, while a reanimation spell is very limited in scope.
    I think in practice you only need the core of: Reanimate(pure mana efficiency), Animate Dead, Necromancy (these two being able to be recurred with Sun Titan is yuge), and Unburial Rites. Then add 1-2 more as you see fit. I personally run Zombify and Breath of Life in addition to the aforementioned, as they are the easiest colors to cast and have no drawbacks, but I wouldn't rule out Dance of the Dead or Exhume if I felt I needed more instances. Generally, I can just end up recurring Animate + Necromancy with Sun Titan. And if I can't that's probably because my graveyard is being hated out and I can't reanimate anyway.

    With that said, in my Oloro deck, I do make use of a few extra tutors that you've not included, while also using Entomb and Intuition. I personally use Vampiric Tutor, Enlightened Tutor, and Mystical Tutor. All can be used at instant speed. This also allows me to put in get-out-of-jail-free cards; Terminus and Temporal Mastery. And again, if tutors are against your philosophy, then I urge you to remove both Entomb and Intuition from your deck. Wink

    I also think this deck would benefit from inclusion of Lim-Dul's Vault and Fact or Fiction. Additionally, Sphinx of Uthuun is one of the most underrated cards in the format, particularly in a reanimation shell. I'd also like to argue that there is not a single instance where Sire of Stagnation is superior to Consecrated Sphinx. Smart opponents will just not land drop if he's out until he's removed. Meanwhile, C.Sphinx is drawing at least 2 cards every turn regardless of opponent's actions.

    Anyway, feel free to completely dissent my opinion. I know that's a lot, but I still have more to say! I look forward to hearing what you think. I'll end up posting my deck list at another time.
    Posted in: Multiplayer Commander Decklists
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.