Treasure Find has the versatility I was looking for, and its cost fits perfectly well, as my mana sources are primary green and black. Have to test it, but I think you found a great addition.
While with Prophetic Prism you can't get double mana for Elspeth, Sphinx and Gaze of Granite, the lantern fixes all the mana issues (except of course lack of lands) as soon as it resolves. And, as you pointed, the lantern helps to ramp, not sure if it deserves a spot.
Yesterday I went on to play online and got wins against some good decks, like GW Tokens, Maze's End and Mono Blue Devotion (MUD). Lost to a Grixis Control deck after facing a Rakdos's Return with Syncopate in hand after I tapped to play Vraska (nice experience).
I know this is far from a tier 1 deck, but if I can improve it a little more I think seriously about trying it in a FNM.
In fact, the lantern went well, especially on the first turns. Not a card I like to see midgame, but the Vine wasn't also, and it was better than everything I tryed. Thanks.
I'm thinking about playing two Unravel the Aether main deck, it has targets in almost all of the decks I play against, will give it a try.
Please don't get me wrong, I really aprecciate your help.
My experiences weren't as good as yours with Gideon, expecially against aggro. It's not hard to cast him turn 4 and get him to 6 to 8 loyalty, but my opponent ignores him and continue to attack me, as his clock is faster than mine. If I have to control the board before playing him, he will be just one more finisher, but not so fast at 5 loyalty. I think it's better against control, where he can't be ignored, may be I give it a try.
About the lantern, I don't like the fact that it generates no card advantage and can't chump block, but I'll cut the playset of Vines for them to see the results.
I don't like Gideon. Some times the opponent will just ignore him as he can't block.
Gatecreeper Vine is a chump blocker that helps with the mana, and I don't care if it dies to a Gaze of Granite, but the lantern is a good suggestion, although I don't want to see more than one... May be a split? I'll try it.
Ok, Ral Zarek is not so important. Didn't you miss Dreadbore? It helps a lot early game as a cheap removal, good especially against aggro, but never a dead card. I also think Rakdos's Return is a bomb, as you will usually destroy opponent's entire hand. That's why I prefer to keep red.
Played a few more games yesterday with Briarpack Alpha. It can remove Soldier of the Pantheon, Blood Baron and Mutavault, trades with Advent of the Wurn's token, an early Polukranos and can take an attacking Obzedah by surprise. It did very well game one, when my opponent didn't expect it.
I'm just at the beginning of the tests. will post back here later.
Other day I was testing a Rakdos deck online and got crushed by a Five Color deck. It made me start using Thoughtseizes SB after those matches, but anyway the point here is: Could a Five color deck work in current standard?
I had no idea if it would be competitive, but some online wins gave me hope. It works well, with early blockers that also fix the mana, cheap removal, and very strong cards for the mid to late game. Sphinx, Return and Gaze are all devastanting when hit.
I know this deck is just starting, I had problems against Soldier of the Pantheon (only Gaze as an answer) and Mutavault (only Azorius Charm delays it). Need to make some adjusts.
What do you guys think?
Edit: Didn't find a thread with a Standard Five Color deck, if there is any, please post the link here.
I play Rakdos Devotion and tryed this guy a few games, it will put both in topdeck mode, and UW has a lot of very good cards (for them) to topdeck. I know that it's a 6/4 body and they have to find some answer, but even a D-Sphere put them in a good position. I think Thoughtseize and, of course, Rakdos's Return are better options against control.
Compare him with Deathbellow Raider, at the same cost you can have flying and haste to your 1/1 or you can have Regeneration (very important here) and +1/+2.
Flying seens just overcosted, he should be a one-drop or a 2/1.
Only works if they tap Mutavault for mana, a black deck would most of the time use Mutavault as a Rat, I don't think it's good against them (Hammer and Assemble the Legion are a lot better).
This card will be useless against Esper/UW and only kills little dorks agains GR Monsters. I don't know if monoblue will be a thing after BNG yet, but it kills just Familiars and Tidebinders (may be Cloudfin). I think it's best as a sideboard card.
I tryed this card SB against Pack Rat and Master of Waves' tokens. After a while I replaced it with one more Mizzium Mortars (I'm running two MD). Ok, it can't kill Mutavault, but the versatility of Mortars just outclasses Homing Lightning.
Thanks for all the input I made white weenie because it wasn't too expensive. Though now I see the price of that new cat creature brimaz and I'm not paying that lol. I do already own a play set of duress and 2 thoughtzseE so maybe ill have to buy black white lands and go black. Two questions.. What would I remove to make it black white? And if I add root born defense to the main 60 would that surfice till I can afford to get dual lands and other black creatures?
While you don't have Brimaz (-3), you can remove Azorius Arrester and/or Frontline Medic (-3) to leave space for a playset of Xathrid Necromancer and 2 Thoughtseize. The Necromancer is your best friend against Verdict, Drown in Sorrow and Anger of the Gods, as he just need to be on the battlefield. Leaving 3 mana open every turn waiting for a Verdict that your opponent will probably keep in hand while you have open mana is what makes Rootborn Defenses a bad card.
I could swear I had a reply posted here yesterday...
Well, may be a forum change problem, I guess.
Deputy's main goal is to save one of our dudes from targeted removal, of course, and she has good sinergy with Lyev Skyknight. With Ephara MD, she is the only way to cast a creature during an opponent's turn (extra cards are always welcome), that's why I'm playing a full playset now.
Rapid Hybridization's versatility surprised me, I can kill opposing flyers so my creatures can go unblocked, and can use it on my own creatures to bring a 3/3 blocker from nowhere, it kills Ash Zealot, Precint Captain, Mutavault and many other annoying 2/1s and 2/2s (and evolves Cloudfin). At one mana, opponent usually don't expect it.
I won many games because of the card advantage generated by an unanswered Bident. I understand the spear has sinergy with this deck (I used both MD for some time), but it's more a "damage improvement" card (and may be against burn it helps to save our creatures). I don't like the fact that both are creature-dependent, so I made my choice for the one that (I think) will win more games.
Triton Tactics is great, it outclasses Fortify in almost all defensive aspects, I'll test it main deck, but for sure it deserves a SB place at least, thanks!
I started testing yesterday, played just two games (Ephara didn't show), but used Loyal Pegasus and didn't like it. A Suntail Hawk would be better in most situations, and a turn one Pegasus can't attack until turn 3 at best. Have you tested Cloudfin Raptor ? It can grown to easily become a 3/4.
After all, I was more comfortable with my pre-BNG version. Can just cut one bident and the gates to put one Ephara and the Scry lands, but let's have more tests first.
I tryed Daxos as a commander, has a very similar text
May be I will play these cards in casual, but not in a competitive environment, where (I hope) this deck can see play. At turn 5, I want to be swinging for the victory, or at least to be dominating the board, so at best, these big guys will be win more cards. At worse, they'll be dead cards in hand.
While with Prophetic Prism you can't get double mana for Elspeth, Sphinx and Gaze of Granite, the lantern fixes all the mana issues (except of course lack of lands) as soon as it resolves. And, as you pointed, the lantern helps to ramp, not sure if it deserves a spot.
Yesterday I went on to play online and got wins against some good decks, like GW Tokens, Maze's End and Mono Blue Devotion (MUD). Lost to a Grixis Control deck after facing a Rakdos's Return with Syncopate in hand after I tapped to play Vraska (nice experience).
I know this is far from a tier 1 deck, but if I can improve it a little more I think seriously about trying it in a FNM.
I'm thinking about playing two Unravel the Aether main deck, it has targets in almost all of the decks I play against, will give it a try.
My experiences weren't as good as yours with Gideon, expecially against aggro. It's not hard to cast him turn 4 and get him to 6 to 8 loyalty, but my opponent ignores him and continue to attack me, as his clock is faster than mine. If I have to control the board before playing him, he will be just one more finisher, but not so fast at 5 loyalty. I think it's better against control, where he can't be ignored, may be I give it a try.
About the lantern, I don't like the fact that it generates no card advantage and can't chump block, but I'll cut the playset of Vines for them to see the results.
Thanks!
Gatecreeper Vine is a chump blocker that helps with the mana, and I don't care if it dies to a Gaze of Granite, but the lantern is a good suggestion, although I don't want to see more than one... May be a split? I'll try it.
Ok, Ral Zarek is not so important. Didn't you miss Dreadbore? It helps a lot early game as a cheap removal, good especially against aggro, but never a dead card. I also think Rakdos's Return is a bomb, as you will usually destroy opponent's entire hand. That's why I prefer to keep red.
Played a few more games yesterday with Briarpack Alpha. It can remove Soldier of the Pantheon, Blood Baron and Mutavault, trades with Advent of the Wurn's token, an early Polukranos and can take an attacking Obzedah by surprise. It did very well game one, when my opponent didn't expect it.
I'm just at the beginning of the tests. will post back here later.
The guy was running Gatecreeper Vine and Sylvan Caryatid as supporters for mana base (also help against aggro), and used to ramp into a lot of mana for Sphinx Revelation, Rakdos's Return, Gaze of Granite and Syncopate. He was also running many planeswalkers (Jace, Elspeth, Vraska and at least one Ral Zarek) and cheap removal (Azorius Charm and Abrupt Decay).
As I found it to be a good control deck, I tryed to do something near and started to play online with the following list:
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Sphinx Revelation
3 Syncopate
3 Azorius Charm
2 Dreadbore
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Gaze of Granite
2 Vraska, the Unseen
2 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1 Ral Zarek
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Temple Garden
3 Stomping Ground
3 Breeding Pool
2 Temple of Deceipt
2 Temple of Malice
2 Temple of Silence
2 Shimmering Grotto
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Island
3 Supreme Verdict
1 Merciless Eviction
3 Thoughtseize
1 Slaughter Games
3 Mistcutter Hydra
3 Detention Sphere
1 Gaze of Granite
I had no idea if it would be competitive, but some online wins gave me hope. It works well, with early blockers that also fix the mana, cheap removal, and very strong cards for the mid to late game. Sphinx, Return and Gaze are all devastanting when hit.
I know this deck is just starting, I had problems against Soldier of the Pantheon (only Gaze as an answer) and Mutavault (only Azorius Charm delays it). Need to make some adjusts.
What do you guys think?
Edit: Didn't find a thread with a Standard Five Color deck, if there is any, please post the link here.
This site is very good to see tournament stats and to compare lists, just a tip.
Flying seens just overcosted, he should be a one-drop or a 2/1.
Edit: Haste is overcosted.
While you don't have Brimaz (-3), you can remove Azorius Arrester and/or Frontline Medic (-3) to leave space for a playset of Xathrid Necromancer and 2 Thoughtseize. The Necromancer is your best friend against Verdict, Drown in Sorrow and Anger of the Gods, as he just need to be on the battlefield. Leaving 3 mana open every turn waiting for a Verdict that your opponent will probably keep in hand while you have open mana is what makes Rootborn Defenses a bad card.
Well, may be a forum change problem, I guess.
Deputy's main goal is to save one of our dudes from targeted removal, of course, and she has good sinergy with Lyev Skyknight. With Ephara MD, she is the only way to cast a creature during an opponent's turn (extra cards are always welcome), that's why I'm playing a full playset now.
Rapid Hybridization's versatility surprised me, I can kill opposing flyers so my creatures can go unblocked, and can use it on my own creatures to bring a 3/3 blocker from nowhere, it kills Ash Zealot, Precint Captain, Mutavault and many other annoying 2/1s and 2/2s (and evolves Cloudfin). At one mana, opponent usually don't expect it.
I won many games because of the card advantage generated by an unanswered Bident. I understand the spear has sinergy with this deck (I used both MD for some time), but it's more a "damage improvement" card (and may be against burn it helps to save our creatures). I don't like the fact that both are creature-dependent, so I made my choice for the one that (I think) will win more games.
Triton Tactics is great, it outclasses Fortify in almost all defensive aspects, I'll test it main deck, but for sure it deserves a SB place at least, thanks!
I started testing yesterday, played just two games (Ephara didn't show), but used Loyal Pegasus and didn't like it. A Suntail Hawk would be better in most situations, and a turn one Pegasus can't attack until turn 3 at best. Have you tested Cloudfin Raptor ? It can grown to easily become a 3/4.
After all, I was more comfortable with my pre-BNG version. Can just cut one bident and the gates to put one Ephara and the Scry lands, but let's have more tests first.
Thanks for your tips. I'll post back here later.
May be I will play these cards in casual, but not in a competitive environment, where (I hope) this deck can see play. At turn 5, I want to be swinging for the victory, or at least to be dominating the board, so at best, these big guys will be win more cards. At worse, they'll be dead cards in hand.