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  • posted a message on Modern Esper Draw-Go
    Quote from user-11186802 »
    Hello, why play esper over something like uw ?


    Esper Charm and Fatal Push are really good right now.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Proliferate and Sagas
    Just like I made the choice to Vraska's Contempt your Rekindling Phoenix. This is a non-issue.
    Posted in: Standard (Type 2)
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Quote from Bearscape »
    Against UW and tron I both want Negate, but I might want Disdainful stroke since that is slightly better against tron even though it's worse against UW. However most of the things I want to counter out of UW are also cmc4 so the downsides of running Disdainful Stroke are beaten by the upsides it gains vs tron.

    Against UW and tron I both want Dovin's Veto, but I might want Disdainful stroke since that is slightly better against tron even though it's worse against UW. UW mirrors are generally decided by who resolves the first threat and Dovin's Veto is so devastating there that the upsides of Disdainful Stroke do not outweigh the upsides of Dovin's Veto.

    It's also false to claim UWx is the only matchup where uncounterability is relevant; there's plenty of minor combo decks that get got pretty hard by it. I can also see an argument for bringing in DV whilst I wouldn't bring in Negate vs GDS,.


    Why would you specifically want Dovin's Veto against Tron over Negate when the only counter magic they run is Warping Wail, which does exactly 0 relevant things against us?

    And as far as the combo decks, I guess it depends? /shrug. Until they become more oppressive/dominant/whatever, I'd rather stay grounded in what actually is.

    Why would you bring in anything resembling Negate against Grixis Death's Shadow? That just seems bad. They're beating you with mana efficiency all day, every day. Not only that, but what's your plan for Negate in this match? Get their 1-of Liliana of the Veil or maybe a random cantrip on turn 2? I'm legitimately confused about this because there are so many other cards I'd rather have before going for an upgraded Negate. They're not trying to play Grixis control against you.

    I didn't claim UW control was the only deck I would want Dovin's Veto. I said out of the "top decks right now." If Jeskai control, Grixis control, Blue Moon, Ad Nauseam and a few other decks were prevalent, I would probably consider it more seriously. Until that day comes, I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    That literally makes no sense. If it's supposedly that good than Negate should've been pretty damn good already. Making Negate uncounterable doesn't suddenly make it leaps and bounds better than every other counter spell out there. That's determined by the metagame. It's the reason we run so many different counter spells. I feel like everyone is trying really hard to justify something that doesn't make sense, but y'all do what you want. If i look at the top decks right now, there's not many where I'm leaning super hard on a Negate (upgraded or not). Those decks are Tron, UW control and Burn. There's only one matchup where Dovin's Veto is something I would want: UW Control which is a solid ~4% of the metagame. Someone tell me where I'm wrong.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Modern Esper Draw-Go
    Quote from Arkmer »
    Veto is a control policing card that goes in control in a meta where control doesn't hold much meta share; chances are this will create more one sided control mirrors (UWx vs non-UWx). The card is virtually indistinguishable against decks with no counters, but as soon as you sit across from a Grixis control player, you will find that you have an incredibly easy time with Veto in your hand.

    If they're sculpting a better hand than you? Doesn't matter, Veto their walker/Ultimatum/non-creature bomb.

    You might immediately point at Counterflux or Last Word, but I would point out that 3 and 4cmc counters are pretty terrible unless they come with great upsides. Veto is just a straight upgrade to an already playable card. No one is clamoring over Cancel only to find they're outclassed by Counterflux, much less Last Word. There is just more reason to run Veto because Negate is already a thing and Cancel is not.

    For some control players (myself included), a combination of Veto and Teferi beg the question "Will WotC ever support non-UWx control?" and "What do my colors bring to the table that can compete with UWx?". In the long run if a deck like Grixis control begins to find time in the sun Veto will move in and take over.



    I find this position somewhat silly because, by virtue of what you just said, it's better against control (and combo) than for it. I would find it more likely that some UWx aggro, tempo or midrange deck would make better use of Dovin's Veto than the control decks everyone wants to slam it in.

    As far as supporting non-UWx control decks, I'm not sure why it even matters. Control as an archetype is fairly weak across the board. UW and Jeskai can sometimes make in-roads in the hands of really good players, but even they aren't having the time of their life right now.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    And in those situations, you usually want those specific spells for a reason. For instance, Dispel against fast decks where 2-CMC isn't where you want to be. Disdainful Stroke hits big CMC things whether they're creatures or not in a variety of matchups. Counterflux can hit the a stack full of Storm copies. An uncounterable Negate doesn't change any of this.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Modern Esper Draw-Go
    I'm curious why an uncounterable Negate has contol players in a flutter. We're not drowning in control mirrors. Negate is just fine if want a Negate-effect. That said, if Negate wasn't so good before that we were playing four of them in our 75, what does making it uncounterable do for a control player who is unlikely to be dealing a mirror these days?

    Also @Baz66, I would counter Ad Nauseam. Not Lightning Storm.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Quote from Bearscape »
    Quote from chaos021 »
    Really? Four of them? Has Negate been a rockstar while I've been away?

    Seriously, it's not like control mirrors are all over Modern right now.


    One Negate is pretty standard main, and I often have 3 counterspells in my sideboard mixing between Dispel, Negate, Disdainful Stroke and Counterflux. I think Dovin's Veto is better than all 4 of those.


    If that's the case, why weren't those other counterspells in your sideboard also Negates?
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Really? Four of them? Has Negate been a rockstar while I've been away?

    Seriously, it's not like control mirrors are all over Modern right now.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Quote from TomCourtenay »
    @ TundraYYC
    - 2 Anger in the sideboard might be replaced by a quick clock (Geist or Clique).


    I disagree with this. Geist doesn't help you deal with big mana decks or graveyard decks. I'm not that high on Clique either but it's definitely better since it can be disruptive and/or useful for gaining info.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Dredge, in general, is too fast for us. Assuming they don't have average draws, it's still a slog for Jeskai to get a game win. Amulet is too fast and makes all your Bolt effects worthless. Cavern of Souls naming Giant takes care of the rest. Tron just does Tron things and we generally fall over. We could get lucky with Bolt-Snap-Bolt, but you're never landing your combo against their average draws. Hardened Scales goes big pretty fast if they get to start off with their namesake enchantment. Otherwise, we can handle it as we would most Affinity matches. It's still easy for our Bolts to become useless though, and applying pressure to finally win can be awkward.

    Of all those matches, Amulet Titan is probably the only one where I would want the combo. That's not enough for me to wreck my mana base.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    I don't know why this combo keeps getting brought up. It is supremely sketchy to rely on a 2-toughness creature to get you across the finish line in almost any combo/unfair match, and what Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker does to your mana base is not a small thing either.

    Jeskai isn't that good right now because Lightning Bolt is of questionable usefulness. That combined with it's inefficiency at dealing with graveyard-based decks makes it not so good against the top tier decks right now. Against the rest of the field, it seems fine but not stellar.
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Abzan Liege / Wilted Abzan / Liege Rhino
    I have a hard time understanding why Lingering Souls matters against Elves. They go wide faster and can get big faster than you can. Even if they matter against Elves, that's far from the main decks I would be concerned with.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Abzan Liege / Wilted Abzan / Liege Rhino
    I think that's a terrible idea. If you cut the mana dorks, there's no reason to play this build over a traditional midrange deck (Rock, Jund, Abzan, Sultai). If I try something like this, I'm cutting Lingering Souls first. It is definitely the weakest card in the deck these days imo. By "fast decks," do you mean combo or hyper-aggressive decks?
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Jund
    It's really cute and really close to being something I would want to play. That whole having to "survive until combat" is a drag for me in a big way. It's probably the fairest way to bring Cabal Therapy into Modern, and it's probably actually somewhere between decent-to-good, but to me, it's a pale imitation.
    Posted in: Midrange
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