really digging the superfriends approach in one list. Not as big of a fan of Turbo Turns, but I can see where she really makes the deck and interactions fun to play. Would love to see your take on dropping fatties, such as Eldrazi Titans or Blightsteel Colossus
I can see playing to your meta. I generally prefer my cmc curve to be lower. It is a part of the struggle I have at present with my decklist. I am pushing for more card draw, lower cmc that I can get to 0 quickly. I like being able to draw and find the answers more consistently. To each their own on playstyle.
These forums are great for brainstorming. Making the cuts is always tough. With all of that mana, have you considered Words of Wind? Might help keep the board clear for a thopter attack or to help keep your opponents locked out a bit more?
Great suggestions, but I'm not looking to go infinite with this deck. I don't really like it all that much personally and in my group, if they know you play infinite combo, it's archenemy from the get go. And this deck will not be holding it's own against that. I know the deck already has a way of going infinite but it requires 4 cards that each all have their place in the deck and it's not something i specifically tutor for so then it's ok. I realize that's completely subjective but it's my reality though
I can understand that. I have one group that is not as salty when I play inf combos. Another that is so aggressive that I have to play the one up, go big or go home style. I get you gotta play to the strengths as well.
Nice list, I'm going to remember this. I think once you get 2 or more discount on your artifacts Jhoira will have you blazing through the deck. I expect Daretti, Scrap Savant to do some heavy lifting in this deck, so the Immortal Sun seems out of place. However, if I decide to take him out the The Immortal Sun is definitely a good replacement. I love the card actually, it's just that the neutering of planeswalkers somehow always prevents me from running it.
I understand this choice as well. Given the aggressive nature of my playgroups in general, Planeswalkers are commonly null to nonexistent in my decks. In truth, I was going for a comprehensive list of reductions, which would include Sun. We should also include Jhoira's Familiar. If you are leaning heavy on the Sagas, Legendary creatures, and artifacts, this should be heavily considered as well.
Top is good in any deck, is there a specific (and probably obvious) interaction I'm missing here?
With enough artifact hits through tops filter ability and artifact cost reduction, you can draw a great deal of your deck. Just helps keep things super consistent.
Also, I must find space for Artificer's Assistant. This thing is absolutely nuts with Jhoira, conveniently scrying away possible non-historic draws. Also, I completely forgot to include Lightning Greaves and Swiftfoot Boots which I think I will need to protect Jhoira. Any ideas on possible cuts?
I do not see a way to generate infinite Mana, let alone colored mana if you do not have the Mycosynth Lattice out. Bearing this in mind, I would contemplate cutting Memnarch.
The Thopters section has some heavy hitters on the CMC curve. With no great way to consistently hit that (at a glance) you may want to consider cutting one or two of the higher cost items.
The item under thopters that sticks out the most is the Steel Overseer. Are you commonly having to attack with these thopters?
Ivory Tower feels like it is win more. Are you having trouble with your health in games?
I am still building my list as well. I am further hindered by wanting some of the new cards in foil. I also want the new Karn, Scion of Urza. Just so much goodness coming out here in the new set.
Semblance Anvil - As others have noted, exile artifact creature, so you can help our creatures and artifacts
The Immortal Sun - Can be a little pricey, but does indeed reduce overall costs of spells
Helm of Awakening - Be careful with this one, as it is group hug and will effect everyone, not just you
Herald of Kozilek - A real sleeper, as it does reduce the cost of COLORLESS artifacts. Won't help Etherium Sculptor out, but covers a great deal of what is going on in this deck
I left the Mycosynth Golem off the list, as it specifies Artifact Creatures ONLY get the benefits of Affinity. In my build I am not running Mycosynth Lattice, so it is not as big a deal for me.
I suppose it depends on which you use more. if you find yourself consistently using the Storm Cauldron, then I would recommend cutting the stone. and vice versa. if you find both to be dead cards, I'd go with dropping the Lorestone for the card draw advantage of the Orrery.
You could go the other way with March of the Machines, and combo it with Liquimetal Coating and Dross Scorpion. Still a three card combo, and you can still justify Lattice and Forge in the 99. With the MotM+DS+LC combo, you control which lands get blown away, and can freely repeat the process with Dross Scorpion on the board. And if you find yourself ahead, drop lattice and lock the board up. It's a nice strategy, simple, can be done in stages, and keeps the momentum in your favor.
After reading your thread, I began theorizing and crafting a deck like this for a friend of mine. In my theory, I went a touch heavier on the pitch into the Graveyard idea and included the likes of Daretti, Scrap Savant and Scrap Mastery. This would lend itself to a similar build to Daretti, but with enough recursion, stands very well on its own. Perpetual Timepiece to pitch things into the graveyard and to use either Goblin Welder or Daretti to get some of those desired artifacts back into play as needed. I tend to favor red, as is evident by my choice. My Friend however went with a very blue approach in pure draw card and counters. I feel like counters in the deck are not as predominantly needed. Kaladesh really does favor the modular creatures.
I also upped the anti with more lands, no mana rocks, and simply cost reduction. I was looking at the likes of:
And just reducing the overall cost of artifacts. My friend had a spare Mycosynth Golem and Mycosynth Lattice, so we also tossed in March of the Machines and paired it with a Darksteel Forge. In case you're scratching your head, this makes all lands artifacts (with lattice). Then All artifacts become artifact creatures with power and toughness equal to cmc (MotM). Then Darksteel Forge makes all your artifacts indestructible. All your lands survive, all of their lands are blown away. then you just continue to turn and burn with Marchesa. Time Seive does work in a deck like this and serves as yet another sac outlet. Given that there are 12 modular creatures, it's pretty safe to run all twelve. Also, when they die, you can pour all of their modular counters onto the Ravager. There is so much synergy that can go into this deck it's unreal.
Sadly, I utterly despise Marchesa of the Black Rose as a commander. (Salt Factor number 5 for me on a personal level) So I will let someone else pilot this and just make it as mean as possible.
Ok, so nothing happened for quite some time on the thread now... I am curious if some of you played some of the new cards we mentionned earlier? If you did, did you had some great results? Juwdah, I saw on an earlier post you were testing some cards, what does your decklist looks like at the moment?
In my play tests, so far that card that is the weakest is the new Kozilek. It appears that the more I play around him, the less impactful he is. I tested Metalwork Colossus in my Muzzio, Visionary Architect and he did WORK. For 2 mana and Mirrorworks on the board, you get two 10/10 beaters. And for as many artifacts we run, he should never cost us a thing. Otherwise, Key to the City helps with the likes of Clock of Omens for untapping. I am thinking of adding an Icy Manipulator to help tweak out Winter Orb, and it would help the Key as well. There are some very interesting other synergy pieces. I also like Filigree Familiar and am thinking of adding him in somewhere.
I also run most spells and counters, well, what's available in colorless. I'm open to further thoughts and interpretations. Otherwise, I'm just not feeling as much as I thought would be useful here. More helpful stuff for Daretti and Muzzio, truth be told.
Oh magic gods - please give us a red/blue artificer!
I am technically Quoting The_Chort, and simply adding my two cents
Top 5 Cards of Interest Inventors' Fair – I agree with your assessment, and absolutely feel that this is an auto-include. We run too many artifacts not to. Metalwork Colossus – I am currently running Ulamog, Ulamog 2.0, Kozilek 2.0, Emrakul 2.0, and Blightsteel as my fatties. I do not think the build can support another Colossus at the top *unless* playtesting shows that dropping a 10/10 turn 2/3 is fairly consistent. Foundry Inspector – I do like this card as well. Unfortunately, I am in the same boat as you, that given it's a creature, it has a body and can be killed, more than likely before his full on use is realized. And we do run Sembalance Anvil, but it's just having the reduction on the body that worries me. Ghirapur Orrery – I too find my hand with two or three lands, and I'm trying to dump them quickly. I do not believe that a Ulamog in hand is a bad thing, but that also depends on where the game is at and if he can be cast. Key to the City – At first glance looks good, but definately requires (I think) too much investment.
Other interesting cards Sequestered Stash – Yep, too slow, and with so very few ways to recur artifacts in this deck, not a fan. Skysovereign, Consul Flagship – Dead weight indeed Cultivator's Caravan – it is a one of any color for three, and we can choose to give it a body, but would you really want to? Aetherworks Marvel – Love the ability, but assembling the energy is just not something we’re set up to do easily or consistently. (Agreed) Deadlock Trap – Interesting, but not good enough. Again, agreed, and the whole energy thing again... Self-Assembler – Maybe someday? Sorry, but this is a nope. Aetherflux Reservoir – Very cute, but we’re not built to abuse this. (Agreed) Animation Module – For counter abuse, try Contagion Engine/Clasp. If you could reliably generate Servos, could be interesting combined with Krark-Clan Ironworks/Ashnod’s Altar/Skullclamp/Clock of Omens, etc. (*cough*we don't use counters *cough*) Decoction Module – If we cared about Energy, could be worth thinking about. Erratic Portal is better otherwise. (Relavent Truth) Filigree Familiar – Probably not good enough. (You would be right)
I really feel compelled to say that I feel Perpetual Timepiece deserves some playtesting. With Sensei's Divining Top you check the top three with top's first ability. Put the crap/unwanted cards on top two, pitch them, draw with top, and repeat as needed to cycle through the deck a little bit more quickly. Then you run into original ulamog, and if you don't need him, pitch him to shuffle your graveyard back into your library. Rinse, repeat. Sometimes you may need Ulamog, then you just top him. Otherwise, it provides (to a small degree) the ability to cycle through our decks a bit if we are slow going to Kozilek.
I love artifacts. I am rebuilding Daretti, Scrap Savant, and I run Kozilek, Muzzio, and Sharuum the Hegemon. I LOVE artifacts, and easily foresee me hunting down at least one copy of EACH of these that I want. Love these reprints. Recommend picking them up and cherishing them.
Kaladesh is getting me quite excited. A red/Blue Planeswalker for Artifacts? I've only been asking for this since I found out that Ral Zarek was Red/Blue, and a horrible let down. Dack Fayden is cool, but he just steals artifacts, not as nice as grabbing three artifacts out.
Now, for Kozilek, I think that there are some items to get excited for.
Aetherworks Marvel - I really like this card, as it gives a Muzzio, Visionary Architect or Mayael, The Anima type effect to the deck. With some of our card shifting slightly, I feel that there is room here. Decoction Module - To help with the above, being able to place something back into our hand and replay it is killer. Think Ulamog the Ceaseless Hunger for removal, Conduit of Ruin for more big beater tutors. I am sure that there are others, those just spring to mind. Ghirapur Orrery - We all know that ramping in colorless is vital. We also know that card draw is vital. I feel that this is small enough and cheap enough to help us out if getting to Kozilek is being problematic. Panharmonicon - I get that on the surface, there is not much that this does. I am including it because I am waiting to see what else comes out.
We are only 1/3rd of the way through spoilers, and still a month away from release. but I am already buying a booster box. So much that I want to do with this.
My two cent's on Inventors' fair - I will run it. I do not even have Crucible of worlds and I want to run this. The more I build my land base, the more I understand that I need to pick up a crucible...
I would love to hear your thoughts and feedback. I feel like the best pieces and cards have not even been revealed yet. Just so much good stuff and cheeky shenanigans about to ensue.
I've had two games where staff and metal worker just was an instant win
Dear sweet baby Jeebus.
I picked up Staff of Domination for Kozilek and oh my words. I went infinite, and just turned into a Kozi Sac engine. Drew into Greaves, Boots, Prototype Portal and Ugin's Nexus. Hastey Kozi and Infinite Turns. This combo works, and gave so much speed to my deck. I know OP is a non-combo, but this one just works. I also run Reliquary Tower and Thought Vessel so having half my deck in my hand is a non issue.
After picking up quite a few things, I feel like Kozilek has balanced out for me. There are still a few cards that I am missing, and that makes me sad.
The guy I was going to get Crucible of Worlds from backed out on that deal, but I was able to pickup Vesuva from him, as well as other goodness for other decks. Eternal Masters made the largest improvements, with updated Art for Frozen Orb and Ashnod's Altar, as well as the re-release of Mana Crypt. I am allowing the pre-release buzz and my next paycheck to come in before buying the new lands and Emrakul, The Promised End. If anyone has had opportunity to play test, please let us know.
And Grim has doubled in price, ugh. Aside from the tomb, I am getting into the deeper end of the cash pool. Best of luck to everyone building and playtesting new stuffs!
These forums are great for brainstorming. Making the cuts is always tough. With all of that mana, have you considered Words of Wind? Might help keep the board clear for a thopter attack or to help keep your opponents locked out a bit more?
I can understand that. I have one group that is not as salty when I play inf combos. Another that is so aggressive that I have to play the one up, go big or go home style. I get you gotta play to the strengths as well.
I understand this choice as well. Given the aggressive nature of my playgroups in general, Planeswalkers are commonly null to nonexistent in my decks. In truth, I was going for a comprehensive list of reductions, which would include Sun. We should also include Jhoira's Familiar. If you are leaning heavy on the Sagas, Legendary creatures, and artifacts, this should be heavily considered as well.
With enough artifact hits through tops filter ability and artifact cost reduction, you can draw a great deal of your deck. Just helps keep things super consistent.
I am still building my list as well. I am further hindered by wanting some of the new cards in foil. I also want the new Karn, Scion of Urza. Just so much goodness coming out here in the new set.
Ashnod's Altar + Nim Deathmantle + Pia and Kiran Nalaar/Maverick Thopterist/Whirler Rogue/Experimental Aviator
From there, if you are going for Artifact cost reduction, try these out:
- Chief Engineer - Grants Convoke for larger artifacts as needed
- Etherium Sculptor - I see it on your list, but including it here to reinforce keeping it with others
- Cloud Key - Will most commonly choose artifacts, but is nice that it is flexible
- Foundry Inspector - Second Etherium sculptor
- Semblance Anvil - As others have noted, exile artifact creature, so you can help our creatures and artifacts
- The Immortal Sun - Can be a little pricey, but does indeed reduce overall costs of spells
- Helm of Awakening - Be careful with this one, as it is group hug and will effect everyone, not just you
- Herald of Kozilek - A real sleeper, as it does reduce the cost of COLORLESS artifacts. Won't help Etherium Sculptor out, but covers a great deal of what is going on in this deck
I left the Mycosynth Golem off the list, as it specifies Artifact Creatures ONLY get the benefits of Affinity. In my build I am not running Mycosynth Lattice, so it is not as big a deal for me.In closing, Sensei's Divining Top is bonkers with Jhoira, just saying.
New Jhoira might be worth looking at to speed up card draw. Just a thought.
Time Seive with Sword of the Meek and some token generation would help this deck out tremendously. There is also Ugin's Nexus + Prototype Portal + and artifact sac outlet for infinite turns as well.
So many things that can be done here when playing with the artifacts.
I also upped the anti with more lands, no mana rocks, and simply cost reduction. I was looking at the likes of:
And just reducing the overall cost of artifacts. My friend had a spare Mycosynth Golem and Mycosynth Lattice, so we also tossed in March of the Machines and paired it with a Darksteel Forge. In case you're scratching your head, this makes all lands artifacts (with lattice). Then All artifacts become artifact creatures with power and toughness equal to cmc (MotM). Then Darksteel Forge makes all your artifacts indestructible. All your lands survive, all of their lands are blown away. then you just continue to turn and burn with Marchesa. Time Seive does work in a deck like this and serves as yet another sac outlet. Given that there are 12 modular creatures, it's pretty safe to run all twelve. Also, when they die, you can pour all of their modular counters onto the Ravager. There is so much synergy that can go into this deck it's unreal.
Sadly, I utterly despise Marchesa of the Black Rose as a commander. (Salt Factor number 5 for me on a personal level) So I will let someone else pilot this and just make it as mean as possible.
Kudos @plushpenguin!
I entered this before playtesting and changes this past weekend. I will have a more up to date link // list here shortly.
In my play tests, so far that card that is the weakest is the new Kozilek. It appears that the more I play around him, the less impactful he is. I tested Metalwork Colossus in my Muzzio, Visionary Architect and he did WORK. For 2 mana and Mirrorworks on the board, you get two 10/10 beaters. And for as many artifacts we run, he should never cost us a thing. Otherwise, Key to the City helps with the likes of Clock of Omens for untapping. I am thinking of adding an Icy Manipulator to help tweak out Winter Orb, and it would help the Key as well. There are some very interesting other synergy pieces. I also like Filigree Familiar and am thinking of adding him in somewhere.
I also run most spells and counters, well, what's available in colorless. I'm open to further thoughts and interpretations. Otherwise, I'm just not feeling as much as I thought would be useful here. More helpful stuff for Daretti and Muzzio, truth be told.
Oh magic gods - please give us a red/blue artificer!
Top 5 Cards of Interest
Inventors' Fair – I agree with your assessment, and absolutely feel that this is an auto-include. We run too many artifacts not to.
Metalwork Colossus – I am currently running Ulamog, Ulamog 2.0, Kozilek 2.0, Emrakul 2.0, and Blightsteel as my fatties. I do not think the build can support another Colossus at the top *unless* playtesting shows that dropping a 10/10 turn 2/3 is fairly consistent.
Foundry Inspector – I do like this card as well. Unfortunately, I am in the same boat as you, that given it's a creature, it has a body and can be killed, more than likely before his full on use is realized. And we do run Sembalance Anvil, but it's just having the reduction on the body that worries me.
Ghirapur Orrery – I too find my hand with two or three lands, and I'm trying to dump them quickly. I do not believe that a Ulamog in hand is a bad thing, but that also depends on where the game is at and if he can be cast.
Key to the City – At first glance looks good, but definately requires (I think) too much investment.
Other interesting cards
Sequestered Stash – Yep, too slow, and with so very few ways to recur artifacts in this deck, not a fan.
Skysovereign, Consul Flagship – Dead weight indeed
Cultivator's Caravan – it is a one of any color for three, and we can choose to give it a body, but would you really want to?
Aetherworks Marvel – Love the ability, but assembling the energy is just not something we’re set up to do easily or consistently. (Agreed)
Deadlock Trap – Interesting, but not good enough. Again, agreed, and the whole energy thing again...
Self-Assembler – Maybe someday? Sorry, but this is a nope.
Aetherflux Reservoir – Very cute, but we’re not built to abuse this. (Agreed)
Animation Module – For counter abuse, try Contagion Engine/Clasp. If you could reliably generate Servos, could be interesting combined with Krark-Clan Ironworks/Ashnod’s Altar/Skullclamp/Clock of Omens, etc. (*cough*we don't use counters *cough*)
Decoction Module – If we cared about Energy, could be worth thinking about. Erratic Portal is better otherwise. (Relavent Truth)
Filigree Familiar – Probably not good enough. (You would be right)
Honorable Mentions
Perpetual Timepiece, Multiform Wonder, Fabrication Module, Smuggler's Copter, Electrostatic Pummeler, Panharmonicon, Aether Hub
I really feel compelled to say that I feel Perpetual Timepiece deserves some playtesting. With Sensei's Divining Top you check the top three with top's first ability. Put the crap/unwanted cards on top two, pitch them, draw with top, and repeat as needed to cycle through the deck a little bit more quickly. Then you run into original ulamog, and if you don't need him, pitch him to shuffle your graveyard back into your library. Rinse, repeat. Sometimes you may need Ulamog, then you just top him. Otherwise, it provides (to a small degree) the ability to cycle through our decks a bit if we are slow going to Kozilek.
Edit: These cards are okay in our deck too...
Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Sol Ring, Crucible of Worlds, Sculpting Steel, Rings of Brighthearth, Mox Opal, Solemn Simulacrum, Lightning Greaves, Mind's Eye, Chromatic Lantern
And these aren't the worst...
Hangarback Walker, Scroll Rack, Lotus Petal
I love artifacts. I am rebuilding Daretti, Scrap Savant, and I run Kozilek, Muzzio, and Sharuum the Hegemon. I LOVE artifacts, and easily foresee me hunting down at least one copy of EACH of these that I want. Love these reprints. Recommend picking them up and cherishing them.
Kaladesh is getting me quite excited. A red/Blue Planeswalker for Artifacts? I've only been asking for this since I found out that Ral Zarek was Red/Blue, and a horrible let down. Dack Fayden is cool, but he just steals artifacts, not as nice as grabbing three artifacts out.
Now, for Kozilek, I think that there are some items to get excited for.
Aetherworks Marvel - I really like this card, as it gives a Muzzio, Visionary Architect or Mayael, The Anima type effect to the deck. With some of our card shifting slightly, I feel that there is room here.
Decoction Module - To help with the above, being able to place something back into our hand and replay it is killer. Think Ulamog the Ceaseless Hunger for removal, Conduit of Ruin for more big beater tutors. I am sure that there are others, those just spring to mind.
Ghirapur Orrery - We all know that ramping in colorless is vital. We also know that card draw is vital. I feel that this is small enough and cheap enough to help us out if getting to Kozilek is being problematic.
Panharmonicon - I get that on the surface, there is not much that this does. I am including it because I am waiting to see what else comes out.
We are only 1/3rd of the way through spoilers, and still a month away from release. but I am already buying a booster box. So much that I want to do with this.
My two cent's on Inventors' fair - I will run it. I do not even have Crucible of worlds and I want to run this. The more I build my land base, the more I understand that I need to pick up a crucible...
I would love to hear your thoughts and feedback. I feel like the best pieces and cards have not even been revealed yet. Just so much good stuff and cheeky shenanigans about to ensue.
Dear sweet baby Jeebus.
I picked up Staff of Domination for Kozilek and oh my words. I went infinite, and just turned into a Kozi Sac engine. Drew into Greaves, Boots, Prototype Portal and Ugin's Nexus. Hastey Kozi and Infinite Turns. This combo works, and gave so much speed to my deck. I know OP is a non-combo, but this one just works. I also run Reliquary Tower and Thought Vessel so having half my deck in my hand is a non issue.
I also picked up the following:
Played Conscription, and ended up having to sac Kozi. Have not yet had the opportunity to play Emrakul.
The guy I was going to get Crucible of Worlds from backed out on that deal, but I was able to pickup Vesuva from him, as well as other goodness for other decks. Eternal Masters made the largest improvements, with updated Art for Frozen Orb and Ashnod's Altar, as well as the re-release of Mana Crypt. I am allowing the pre-release buzz and my next paycheck to come in before buying the new lands and Emrakul, The Promised End. If anyone has had opportunity to play test, please let us know.
Of note, I am still missing some cards...
And Grim has doubled in price, ugh. Aside from the tomb, I am getting into the deeper end of the cash pool. Best of luck to everyone building and playtesting new stuffs!