Hey, I'm pretty new to the deck, and this current standard. I was wondering if you guys can help me with sideboarding. Like what cards i should be putting in and what i should take out. I'm just talking about the common archetypes you would see on MTGO. Here's current list
This was the list I played, Im thinking of maybe attending GP Milan and going forward I would def cut the Tusk . Note that this is a much more rock approach than a control one, as this deck come from an older version that was invented by Daniel Undwin. MVP all weekend was def knight of reliquary + vault
Ok people, since we somewhat agree that the meta is not healthy but we dont agree why (banning TC really dont make much sense to me at all), how about gitaxian probe? feeds delve for free, cantrip, "free" information, and, like mental misstep, at the end only helps blue decks (one reason for the ban on MM was: this is helping only blue, not everyone like we believe before hand).
this sound reasonable to you?
pd: quote "Looking at high-level tournaments, instead of results having blue and nonblue decks playing Mental Misstep, there are more blue decks than ever. The DCI is banning Mental Misstep, with the hopes of restoring the more diverse metagame that existed prior to the printing of Mental Misstep."
P&P dont eliminate RNG, it just makes it less of a factor. Whats to bad about that?
This is not true in Modern. Games in Modern rely much more heavily on whether or not you drew the right part of your deck or hit your sideboard cards early on because there isn't much quality card filtering the get to them if they aren't in your opening hand. The element of luck is increased; hit the right cards and you win, miss them and you lose. The format retains that element of luck that's largely removed from Legacy thanks to cards like Brainstorm and Ponder, and I suspect that's exactly how Wizards wants it to be.
Exactly this.
I think a good solution is to change how new cards effect moder. Make it so that special event decks can effect moder, or mayne certain special event decks can. That mean we can have cards printed for Modern that wont disrupt Standard. Its a good way to affect Legacy, and why not have that for Modern?
Few of Modern's top decks have very streamlined gameplans. Off the top of my head, I can think of Burn, UR Delver, and Jeskai Ascendency - and the Modern playerbase seems to be freaking out at the prospect of these streamlined decks with committed plans doing well. Isn't it better than everything going goodstuff, or diversifying their plans so games are won and lost on variance? Twin frequntly wins via Pestermite beats, Scapeshift can win off Obstinate Baloth or Primeval Titan, classical RUG Delver had a Midrange backup plan with Vedalken Shackles. Decks are forced to attack from a variety of different angles because they don't have the good cards they need to completely commit to an archetype, and as a result, games between any two given decks become very swingy. Did you draw the right hate for the right plan? Are you switching plans midgame? Are they? Compare with Legacy: every deck has a streamlined gameplan. And anyone who plays the format can tell you it's immensely rewarding and you're bound to face a huge variety of decks in a major event.).
Damn. I never could but in words why legacy is better than modern, but you have done it for me!
JA is a deck that can combo out on or before turn 3 with about 63% of it's draws. That's incredibly fast and reliable.
Just like Infect! Is that banned?
Infect gets a turn 3 kill with less than than 44% of its draws. It is not even remotely as consistent as JAC and JAC is as fast. JAC is also alot more resilient than infect. The deck performed poorly in madrid for a variety of reasons, 'it sucks' isn't one of them. (Jeskai Ascendancy Combo = JAC)
NOTE: All my percentages are generated by analysis of 50,000 randomized draws for the deck.
I didnt watch GP Madrid. How come JAC did poorly?
Also, what about this crazy idea, unban these cards:
DRS to help graveyard hate
BBE to help jund in the light of TC
Ponder and /or Preordain possibly help combo and control. might be too good though
Sword of the Meek add new type of combo to help fend off TC decks. I dont know much about this deck so im not sure. Doesnt seem too harmful
Seething Song- i just dont think storm is that out of control with this card, especially if you power up other archetypes. DRS easy shut down Storm Possibly too good with ponder/preordain and can help other decks, not just storm. Can be another rason to un ban DRS.
Ancestral Vision- make control better. Might be too good with TC and BBE, but I dont see how this is much different than TC. Possibly ban TC and un-ban Ancestral Vision. Not playing this on turn one, doesnt seem that bad, and because our Cascade cards arent that good compared to legacy, I dont see too much harm in the un ban.
This might be too over the top, but I'm for the unbanning of cards since it adds more possible deck choices but I understand that it ca risk the health of the game. I also want to make the point that these cards dont seem much different than TC in my eyes. TC can also be seen as the reason to un ban a lot of these cards. More cards available can lead to more diversity!
Seething Song: randomly releasing t3 decks in the format wouldn't help anything. Seething Song is pretty nailed on the ban list unless something else from Storm is banned.
what do you mean by this?
Ponder/Preordain: Scapeshift and Delver are already the top decks. They don't need any help. Two months ago P&P would push Twin over the top and now Delver. P&P will probably never leave the ban list.
yeah your right, i just love ponder so much
DRS: I would just play DRS and TC together.
I'm still convinced these cards can be played together in a healthy format. I wasnt playing much modern dring the DRS days, but it just seems rushed.
AV: wasn't there just a new draw 3 for U spell? Shall we first look how that ends up?
OK, but im just saying, i think TC is worse than AV.
In this interview Jon said a couple interesting things (im paraphrasing)
"Modern is just a boring *** format"
"The problem of Modern is that it doesnt change. You need to make cards that are powerful enough to change the format, but not too powerful to get banned"
KtK has some powerful cards, its just sad that everyone is yelling for the bans of not just TC, but Dig Through Time and Jeskai Ascendancy. I think we need to look to mix the format up rather than revert back to its former pod/twin/affinity meta
To elaborate, the thing was JAC has a pretty terrible matchup against burn, which was greatly represented, and also that it's soft to creature removal (apart from Sylvan Caryatid). Since everyone was aiming for Delver, most decks were packing bolts or some other removal. And JAC doesn't do much if its mana dorks die.
JA is a deck that can combo out on or before turn 3 with about 63% of it's draws. That's incredibly fast and reliable.
Just like Infect! Is that banned?
Infect gets a turn 3 kill with less than than 44% of its draws. It is not even remotely as consistent as JAC and JAC is as fast. JAC is also alot more resilient than infect. The deck performed poorly in madrid for a variety of reasons, 'it sucks' isn't one of them. (Jeskai Ascendancy Combo = JAC)
NOTE: All my percentages are generated by analysis of 50,000 randomized draws for the deck.
I didnt watch GP Madrid. How come JAC did poorly?
Also, what about this crazy idea, unban these cards:
DRS to help graveyard hate
BBE to help jund in the light of TC
Ponder and /or Preordain possibly help combo and control. might be too good though
Sword of the Meek add new type of combo to help fend off TC decks. I dont know much about this deck so im not sure. Doesnt seem too harmful
Seething Song- i just dont think storm is that out of control with this card, especially if you power up other archetypes. DRS easy shut down Storm Possibly too good with ponder/preordain and can help other decks, not just storm. Can be another rason to un ban DRS.
Ancestral Vision- make control better. Might be too good with TC and BBE, but I dont see how this is much different than TC. Possibly ban TC and un-ban Ancestral Vision. Not playing this on turn one, doesnt seem that bad, and because our Cascade cards arent that good compared to legacy, I dont see too much harm in the un ban.
This might be too over the top, but I'm for the unbanning of cards since it adds more possible deck choices but I understand that it ca risk the health of the game. I also want to make the point that these cards dont seem much different than TC in my eyes. TC can also be seen as the reason to un ban a lot of these cards. More cards available can lead to more diversity!
This deck shows how a player could attack the metagame, and look at his recent placings. He runs no blue, no red, and is not a Birthing Pod deck and has managed to prize out almost everyday. Lightning Helix attached to a 4/5 is amazing in this metagame.
This list is why nothing is wrong with the meta. My local has been super responsive to the last month of changes, with lots of burn players and delver players doing really well, then last night there was just a single burn and a single delver--they know they can't get away with running easy to hate yet powerful decks forever.
That list is super simple too, given said meta instead of the CA from bob or just cruising too, he just runs creatures that lead to your opponent 2 for 1ing themselves to deal with nearly every card you play.
There's nothing new in this list. If you're saying we have to run the $1500 deck just because then no I'd rather not. Lots of decks have already gone the lifegaining route with more finks, more helix, more rhinos, etc. and they only see marginal improvement in the current meta, and *still* get hated out by burn and delver anyway. It's not that effective.
totaly agree.
last night there was just a single burn and a single delver--they know they can't get away with running easy to hate yet powerful decks forever.
Hey so I've been trying out Chalice of the Void main deck and i think its the way to go. Resolved Chalice just blows out burn and Delver. That being said, we need to remove some of our one drops. Heres my current list:
Fetches might not be optimal since I'm only using the new ones since they are cheaper $ wise. Mine is a little white heavier than classic builds, and Im not using Liliana of the Veil. First it was because of price, but now i actually dont want to use her. Imo shes too slow, and id rather have a hand full of removal than Liliana.
The white heavy build makes Supreme Verdict the wrath of choice. The relevant matchups would be merfolk and delver (and pod, but they dont have counters). Its really good vs merfolk as there were multiple times they could have a spell pierce or that one merfolk i forget his name that acts like a spell pierce. Its nice just not worrying about clearing the board or not. The problem is that Loam/ Crime combo isnt as easy to pull off without tons of black, but hopefully thats where Tomb of Yawgmaw comes in, and Knight of the Rel can tutor for it.
I'll be testing today with Noxious Revival and probably cutting Sultai Charm. Yeah its another 1 drop but i feel its just really good in this deck. Snapcaster with Noxious + 1 or 2 more makes you automatically be able to cast what you want next turn. Makes it really hard for opponent to pick
My Meta has tons of Delver and Boggles, hence Back to Nature. The side board isnt set in stone and probably would be a lot different if i was going to a scg open or playing online
I didn't play modern during death rite but Imo it's pretty bad now. Look at the top 8 for scg columbus. Delver everywhere.
When do they usually do bannings? I'm thinking about building some final pieced I need for jeskai ascendancy but I don't want to spend the money since jeskai ascendancy and cruise are probably getting banned
1 Arena Athlete
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Foundry Street Denizen
3 Frenzied Goblin
4 Monastery Swiftspear
2 Hordeling Outburst
1 Coordinated Assault
2 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Titan's Strength
1 Hall of Triumph
4 Dragon Mantle
4 Hammerhand
18 Mountain
2 Lightning Strike
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Magma Spray
3 Peak Eruption
4 Searing Blood
what would you add in place of Thragtusk
I was under the impression that the meta is actually pretty good. New Jersey seemed pretty diverse
Exactly this.
I think a good solution is to change how new cards effect moder. Make it so that special event decks can effect moder, or mayne certain special event decks can. That mean we can have cards printed for Modern that wont disrupt Standard. Its a good way to affect Legacy, and why not have that for Modern?
Damn. I never could but in words why legacy is better than modern, but you have done it for me!
what do you mean by this?
yeah your right, i just love ponder so much
I'm still convinced these cards can be played together in a healthy format. I wasnt playing much modern dring the DRS days, but it just seems rushed.
OK, but im just saying, i think TC is worse than AV.
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/luis-scott-vargas/luck-skill-victory-podcast-interview-with-jon-finkel-2/
In this interview Jon said a couple interesting things (im paraphrasing)
"Modern is just a boring *** format"
"The problem of Modern is that it doesnt change. You need to make cards that are powerful enough to change the format, but not too powerful to get banned"
KtK has some powerful cards, its just sad that everyone is yelling for the bans of not just TC, but Dig Through Time and Jeskai Ascendancy. I think we need to look to mix the format up rather than revert back to its former pod/twin/affinity meta
is JAC any good vs delver
I didnt watch GP Madrid. How come JAC did poorly?
Also, what about this crazy idea, unban these cards:
DRS to help graveyard hate
BBE to help jund in the light of TC
Ponder and /or Preordain possibly help combo and control. might be too good though
Sword of the Meek add new type of combo to help fend off TC decks. I dont know much about this deck so im not sure. Doesnt seem too harmful
Seething Song- i just dont think storm is that out of control with this card, especially if you power up other archetypes. DRS easy shut down Storm Possibly too good with ponder/preordain and can help other decks, not just storm. Can be another rason to un ban DRS.
Ancestral Vision- make control better. Might be too good with TC and BBE, but I dont see how this is much different than TC. Possibly ban TC and un-ban Ancestral Vision. Not playing this on turn one, doesnt seem that bad, and because our Cascade cards arent that good compared to legacy, I dont see too much harm in the un ban.
This might be too over the top, but I'm for the unbanning of cards since it adds more possible deck choices but I understand that it ca risk the health of the game. I also want to make the point that these cards dont seem much different than TC in my eyes. TC can also be seen as the reason to un ban a lot of these cards. More cards available can lead to more diversity!
totaly agree.
Delver isnt easy to hate out
1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Gifts Ungiven
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Lingering Souls
1 Raven's Crime
1 Unburial Rites
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Darkblast
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Thragtusk
1 Dismember
1 Doom Blade
1 Batterskull
1 Golgari Charm
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sultai Charm
1 Dig Through Time
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Birds of Paradise
1 Life from the Loam
1 Path to Exile
1 Breeding Pool
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Temple Garden
1 Watery Grave
Sideboard
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Creeping Corrosion
3 Sun Droplet
2 Back to Nature
1 Path to Exile
3 Kor Firewalker
1 Torpor Orb
1 Celestial Purge
Fetches might not be optimal since I'm only using the new ones since they are cheaper $ wise. Mine is a little white heavier than classic builds, and Im not using Liliana of the Veil. First it was because of price, but now i actually dont want to use her. Imo shes too slow, and id rather have a hand full of removal than Liliana.
The white heavy build makes Supreme Verdict the wrath of choice. The relevant matchups would be merfolk and delver (and pod, but they dont have counters). Its really good vs merfolk as there were multiple times they could have a spell pierce or that one merfolk i forget his name that acts like a spell pierce. Its nice just not worrying about clearing the board or not. The problem is that Loam/ Crime combo isnt as easy to pull off without tons of black, but hopefully thats where Tomb of Yawgmaw comes in, and Knight of the Rel can tutor for it.
I'll be testing today with Noxious Revival and probably cutting Sultai Charm. Yeah its another 1 drop but i feel its just really good in this deck. Snapcaster with Noxious + 1 or 2 more makes you automatically be able to cast what you want next turn. Makes it really hard for opponent to pick
My Meta has tons of Delver and Boggles, hence Back to Nature. The side board isnt set in stone and probably would be a lot different if i was going to a scg open or playing online
Question, what's your thoughts on Thragtusk vs Obstinate Baloth
Also, is it a huge hit if i use Birds over Caryatid. I just dont own Caryatid
When do they usually do bannings? I'm thinking about building some final pieced I need for jeskai ascendancy but I don't want to spend the money since jeskai ascendancy and cruise are probably getting banned