What decks would you put that in then? The decks that you are putting chalice in im refering to "chalice decks." Any decks that doesn't want 1 mana spells, which are inferior to any delver deck
I can't believe when people say Chalice isn't played or isn't good in Modern.
The fact that games are so fast are down to 1cmc spells. And there's a truckload of them
To be clear, I was referring to pistallion's comment about 'chalice decks', which don't exist in modern except as tier nothing brews. There are decks that run chalice, main or side and its an increasingly good choice of hate in the current meta. It just sounded like he was comparing legacy's stompy decks, rather than what chalice does in modern.
I didnt say they are tier nothing. I said that the decks that are bad vs chalice are in general better than chalice decks. Theres multiple reasons for that:
-Multiple chalice is bad in starting hand, which means you need to pick a good number to put into your deck.
-A lot worse if on the draw
-Still tons of 2 drop artifact removal seen in every T1 sideboard
-Doesnt do anything with multiple in hand.
-Disabling your own 1 mana spells which means if you dont draw it, their 1 mana spells are online, and are the most powerful cards in the format
-Blank card vs decks that dont rely on 1 mana cards, effectively disabling really only 3 archetypes: Delver, Burn, and Jeskai Ascendancy. Very bad vs URW Control, Pod, and Scapeshift
It can be a good call for your local meta, but your still playing a worse deck, and really the only positive trade off is a blow out game one whit a resolved chalice vs Delver or Burn
I keep reading posts from people that have played the deck 10 matches or 20 matches and giving their opinion about how to play it. Seems a little foolish... I've got in somewhere around 250 matches with the deck in various builds starting with the Black/Pardee Wish version. Now I'm not telling anyone what to do (other than go playtest more and type less), but I can say that if you haven't played the deck a significant amount more than 10-20 matches you are likely missing the feel of when to go off. You shouldn't be forcing the combo into a hand full of open mana.... You don't need to be at 20 life either, only 1. So how/why wouldn't 3 bolts/3 path be enough to get to turn 5, 6 or even later when the opponent has tried to play a few things is low on mana and you go then? You are still a control deck in this version, you have counter spells and other removal beyond those 6...
What do you think about 3 Remands vs the new 2 Remands 1 Peek. ALso what about Seachrome Coast vs another Hallowed Fountain?
Wind zendikon is the real deal. I like the card much better than faerie conclave on the combo turn. For this reason alone I would run it, but in addition, it also is a psuedo-delver if you need to attack, and a the rest of the copies are easily sideboarded to bring in for plenty of matchups.
What are you guys replacing Wind zendikon with? Conclave? if so, how many. I dont get this because conclave is a mana producing card which means if you are cutting 1 or 2 conclaves, then your missing 2 lands from your deck which means worse consistency of turn 3 land drops. On top of that, you are setting your lands up for destruction unless you are casting Wind Zendikon the turn you combo off, which im still trying to understand how more cantrips or removal (or whatever you are replacing) isnt just better?
mmm i disagree, chalice in modern is played a lot right now (see price trends) as a meta call (delver, cantrip combo, etc).
is not like legacy when you t1 is chalice for 1, but here you play chalice on turn 2 or more, locking down half of some decks (delver, rg tron, ascendancy).
bottom line, chalice is a star right now in modern!
I will 2nd this. Chalice of the Void can stop the Delver deck nearly right in its tracks, leaving the few 2 mana spells to try and win. Of course, one of the 2 mana spells does get an Elemental token regardless of if the spell is countered or not.
After seeing a RG Trap deck play 3 main board Chalice of the Void and place well at an SCG Premier Event, I put 4 of them in my SB. Now I don't know what other decks can support it, but Chalice for 1 on turn 2, especially the play is nearly unbeatable for Delver.
That being said, I don't want to seem like I am pushing toward an unban of Glimpse of Nature at all. While I would love to play the card personally and wouldn't mind the plethora of mirrors and whatever hate came my way, the power level is too high for Modern. Just playing it for value and netting 3 cards is ridiculous. Someone may state that Treasure Cruise does the same thing, but Glimpse has a much larger ceiling and in my experience of playing Elves in Legacy, Force of Will is usually necessary when someone plays Glimpse. Spell Pierce is too easy to play around. It even can be used as a bluff, but then your hand is pretty weak anyway.
It defiantly can shut down a lot of top tier decks, but in general, those decks are just better than the chalice decks
well, i wanted to say the best removal against delver/young pyromancer and elves.
but considering that right now the meta is pretty much delver and pod, anger of the gods is good against both and may be the best sweeper in the format (right now, again as a meta call).
I agree, I think Anger is the best sweeper for sure
If a Suppression Field is in play, do certain non basic lands count as activated abilities tapping for mana such as Horizon Canopy, since you need to tap and pay life? Would that cost 2 more to just tap for W or G?
3-1 daily on MTGO recently on MTG Goldfish using Geist plan on SB
They changed the title of the Deck to Sticher Storm, which I hate lol. The deck isnt slave to Fatesticher to win, relys on Jeskai Ascendancy game 1, and has nothing to do with storm besides its a combo deck
Hard casting vs pod isn't that uncommon since they only have Decay as removal.
As to the guy that never fizzles, first I want to ask how many matches hhave u played with the deck? Also it depends on what you are playing against. Vs non interactive opponents it's easy, but making sure u go off in the middle of bolts, paths, and counter magic is very important. Some times u need to go off at instant speed. I just see a turn 2 Pyro as an inferior plan to sculpting your hand.
Idk, travis woo has that build but I'm sticking to the no token plan. Also this build is having actual good results so it's hard not to go this way
So i have cut back to straight jeskai colors, because it just saves so much life. Also, I am back to my first love, seeker of the way in the sideboard. I used to have 4x delver, but I cut him to two, then finally replaced him with wind zendikon. I really like the zendikon because it is a slightly worse version of fatestitcher for the combo, and a slightly worse delver on offense. I find I have different packages to side in and out each game: I side out my removal for seekers because I need a life pad, pyromancers if i need blockers, and zendikons if i need to race with the combo. I can also side in counters or wear//tears as needed.
Over all the deck feels very fluid. I like how the seekers are proactive and how it seems to be a 2 cmc baneslayer. The zendikons are just extra (slightly worse) fatestitchers or (slightly worse) delvers as needed. Young pyromancer is crazy as usual, and giest just catches some decks with their pants down, especially when you can clear out blockers with cheap interaction/cantrips.
I think a very important part of this deck is knowing your role. Sometimes you need to just go for their throat, other times you need to play various types of board or stack control. This will take practice, because it is much harder to play IRL than I initially expected.
Firstly, the land seems messy, but I'm assuming you dont have Tarns because of its stupid price.
Seeker of the way seems cool, but realistically i feel its great in matchups like burn and delver, and they'll just kill it if you cast it turn 2. I'd rather have more cantrips probably. Running only 2 Dig Through time i think is a huge flaw. DTT is definitely the best card in the deck and 4 is a must imo. Izzet Charm is also very important too, and only 2 is also hindering; it works as a soft counter, removal, and drawing 2 and discarding 2 is probably its best mode. Cutting 4 thought scour is also bad for the combo.
The thing i so like is some Wind Zelkion over some Convlaves. Its only 1 mana instead of 2, and having concvlave come in tapped is super annoying even on turn 1 sometimes.
I might be wrong since its not really about pure comboing, but thats just my thoughts. I never liked the Peezy plan because he usually dies fast, even after getting like 2 or 3 elementals, we dont have the racing power of something like delver. Yeah Peezy can get tons of tokens if Jeskai ascendancy is in play, but the pure combo pieces are just better in that spot anyways
Game 1, 2-0: Vs a jank Mono Black deck. No disruption and too slow
Game 2, 2-0: Vs UR Delver. I played this kid 2 time alrady and I was on a different deck, so I think he wasnt expecting a turn one Gladecover Scout. Game one was a blow out as i got my life link online and it was too much. Game 2 he turn 2 overloaded an Electrickery on my naked Gladecover Scout. I had 2 Kor's in my hand so I decided to try and throw one out and see what he does. He digs a lot on his next turn with a bunch of cantrips and I see him discard a vapor snag on his Faithless Looting. I was very confused after that and eventually I got my Kor to be gigantic and won. He later said he accidently misplayed and didnt mean to discard the vapor snag but was too late after he realized it.
Game 3, 2-1: Vs Tron. Had a bad hand and mulled to 5 with no boggle but had fetch/dryad arbor and some totem armor enhancements and since I had no idea what tron's removal even is, i kept which was a bad idea. He eventually Dismember's my Dryad Arbor and totem armor doesnt even help since its technically not destroyed. He Resolves Sundering Titan and i scoop. Second game i mull again to 5, but with a really good hand, and he mulls to 4 or 5 :D. I get my boggle out and he misses a land drop turn 2. Turn 3 he throws a Expedition map out and I kill it with Nature's Claim. My Boggle gets huge and win that. 3rd game i realize his sideboard plan was a defensive counter magic plan, which was bad. He counters some of my enchantments but doesnt draw any of his Ætherize he told me he had after the game. He also showed my his Spellskite, which i assumed he had, and Chalice of the Voids he had too, but thankfully didnt draw that since I didnt even board in my Seal of Primordiums. I felt like i kind of got lucky, Tron imo is such an insanely hard matchup.
Game 4 2-0: UR Delver. Game 1 was close, i didnt draw and lifelink and he had 2 Delver's unflipped with both our life totals low. His Delvers didnt flip for 2 turns, if they did on the first, i might have been in trouble. Game 2, I got 2 boggles out vs his 1 delver even though he was doing a good time keeping off my enchantments. the 2 boggle plan was great since he could only block 1 and eventually went to 3 when i had both my boggles at 3/3.
Game 5, 2-0: Vs Jeskai Conrol. Game 1 my Boggle was somewhat doing good, but he casted a Restoration Angel to block, but had 2 Path to Exiles in hand to get around his counters. Game 2 was almost looking bad. He held me off with some counters and got to turn 4 and casted a Wrath of God after countering my Umbras. I knew that was his plan so I held some boggles in my hand. Threw a rancor on my new one and he casted SUpreme Verdict again. Then I drew my 3rd boggle luckily! He held me off with 2 Cryptic Commands but it still wasnt enough to get me. I eventually resolved a Suppression Field so he couldnt even activate Celestial Colonnade
Some Notes:
For the side, I know there are a couple players that run Chalice, so thats why i have Seal of Primordium. Relic just good vs Delver, plays mind games with them because they want to rush thier grave yeard so badly to get Treasure Cruise, they can mess up easily. Thought about Rest in Peace but i just think the 1 mana of Relic is a lot better. The Guttural Response is because there is 2 control players that are good, and the card is very unexpected but i might cut because i feel the matchup is still so good. The biggest problem i have is vs Tron. I'm thinking of putting even more Tron hate like Stony Silence since its by far the hardest matchup.
Ascendency runs 1 treasure cruise and it would barley effect the deck if cruise is banned
I didnt say they are tier nothing. I said that the decks that are bad vs chalice are in general better than chalice decks. Theres multiple reasons for that:
-Multiple chalice is bad in starting hand, which means you need to pick a good number to put into your deck.
-A lot worse if on the draw
-Still tons of 2 drop artifact removal seen in every T1 sideboard
-Doesnt do anything with multiple in hand.
-Disabling your own 1 mana spells which means if you dont draw it, their 1 mana spells are online, and are the most powerful cards in the format
-Blank card vs decks that dont rely on 1 mana cards, effectively disabling really only 3 archetypes: Delver, Burn, and Jeskai Ascendancy. Very bad vs URW Control, Pod, and Scapeshift
It can be a good call for your local meta, but your still playing a worse deck, and really the only positive trade off is a blow out game one whit a resolved chalice vs Delver or Burn
What do you think about 3 Remands vs the new 2 Remands 1 Peek. ALso what about Seachrome Coast vs another Hallowed Fountain?
What are you guys replacing Wind zendikon with? Conclave? if so, how many. I dont get this because conclave is a mana producing card which means if you are cutting 1 or 2 conclaves, then your missing 2 lands from your deck which means worse consistency of turn 3 land drops. On top of that, you are setting your lands up for destruction unless you are casting Wind Zendikon the turn you combo off, which im still trying to understand how more cantrips or removal (or whatever you are replacing) isnt just better?
It defiantly can shut down a lot of top tier decks, but in general, those decks are just better than the chalice decks
I agree, I think Anger is the best sweeper for sure
do you mean in the format or in a certain deck?
3-1 daily on MTGO recently on MTG Goldfish using Geist plan on SB
They changed the title of the Deck to Sticher Storm, which I hate lol. The deck isnt slave to Fatesticher to win, relys on Jeskai Ascendancy game 1, and has nothing to do with storm besides its a combo deck
As to the guy that never fizzles, first I want to ask how many matches hhave u played with the deck? Also it depends on what you are playing against. Vs non interactive opponents it's easy, but making sure u go off in the middle of bolts, paths, and counter magic is very important. Some times u need to go off at instant speed. I just see a turn 2 Pyro as an inferior plan to sculpting your hand.
Idk, travis woo has that build but I'm sticking to the no token plan. Also this build is having actual good results so it's hard not to go this way
Firstly, the land seems messy, but I'm assuming you dont have Tarns because of its stupid price.
Seeker of the way seems cool, but realistically i feel its great in matchups like burn and delver, and they'll just kill it if you cast it turn 2. I'd rather have more cantrips probably. Running only 2 Dig Through time i think is a huge flaw. DTT is definitely the best card in the deck and 4 is a must imo. Izzet Charm is also very important too, and only 2 is also hindering; it works as a soft counter, removal, and drawing 2 and discarding 2 is probably its best mode. Cutting 4 thought scour is also bad for the combo.
The thing i so like is some Wind Zelkion over some Convlaves. Its only 1 mana instead of 2, and having concvlave come in tapped is super annoying even on turn 1 sometimes.
I might be wrong since its not really about pure comboing, but thats just my thoughts. I never liked the Peezy plan because he usually dies fast, even after getting like 2 or 3 elementals, we dont have the racing power of something like delver. Yeah Peezy can get tons of tokens if Jeskai ascendancy is in play, but the pure combo pieces are just better in that spot anyways
1x Dryad Arbor
4x Ethereal Armor
2x Forest
4x Gladecover Scout
4x Horizon Canopy
4x Hyena Umbra
4x Kor Spiritdancer
2x Path to Exile
1x Plains
4x Rancor
4x Razorverge Thicket
4x Slippery Bogle
4x Spider Umbra
2x Spirit Link
2x Spirit Mantle
4x Temple Garden
1x Unflinching Courage
4x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Bastion
Sideboard:
4x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Nature's Claim
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Seal of Primordium
3x Suppression Field
Game 1, 2-0: Vs a jank Mono Black deck. No disruption and too slow
Game 2, 2-0: Vs UR Delver. I played this kid 2 time alrady and I was on a different deck, so I think he wasnt expecting a turn one Gladecover Scout. Game one was a blow out as i got my life link online and it was too much. Game 2 he turn 2 overloaded an Electrickery on my naked Gladecover Scout. I had 2 Kor's in my hand so I decided to try and throw one out and see what he does. He digs a lot on his next turn with a bunch of cantrips and I see him discard a vapor snag on his Faithless Looting. I was very confused after that and eventually I got my Kor to be gigantic and won. He later said he accidently misplayed and didnt mean to discard the vapor snag but was too late after he realized it.
Game 3, 2-1: Vs Tron. Had a bad hand and mulled to 5 with no boggle but had fetch/dryad arbor and some totem armor enhancements and since I had no idea what tron's removal even is, i kept which was a bad idea. He eventually Dismember's my Dryad Arbor and totem armor doesnt even help since its technically not destroyed. He Resolves Sundering Titan and i scoop. Second game i mull again to 5, but with a really good hand, and he mulls to 4 or 5 :D. I get my boggle out and he misses a land drop turn 2. Turn 3 he throws a Expedition map out and I kill it with Nature's Claim. My Boggle gets huge and win that. 3rd game i realize his sideboard plan was a defensive counter magic plan, which was bad. He counters some of my enchantments but doesnt draw any of his Ætherize he told me he had after the game. He also showed my his Spellskite, which i assumed he had, and Chalice of the Voids he had too, but thankfully didnt draw that since I didnt even board in my Seal of Primordiums. I felt like i kind of got lucky, Tron imo is such an insanely hard matchup.
Game 4 2-0: UR Delver. Game 1 was close, i didnt draw and lifelink and he had 2 Delver's unflipped with both our life totals low. His Delvers didnt flip for 2 turns, if they did on the first, i might have been in trouble. Game 2, I got 2 boggles out vs his 1 delver even though he was doing a good time keeping off my enchantments. the 2 boggle plan was great since he could only block 1 and eventually went to 3 when i had both my boggles at 3/3.
Game 5, 2-0: Vs Jeskai Conrol. Game 1 my Boggle was somewhat doing good, but he casted a Restoration Angel to block, but had 2 Path to Exiles in hand to get around his counters. Game 2 was almost looking bad. He held me off with some counters and got to turn 4 and casted a Wrath of God after countering my Umbras. I knew that was his plan so I held some boggles in my hand. Threw a rancor on my new one and he casted SUpreme Verdict again. Then I drew my 3rd boggle luckily! He held me off with 2 Cryptic Commands but it still wasnt enough to get me. I eventually resolved a Suppression Field so he couldnt even activate Celestial Colonnade
Some Notes:
For the side, I know there are a couple players that run Chalice, so thats why i have Seal of Primordium. Relic just good vs Delver, plays mind games with them because they want to rush thier grave yeard so badly to get Treasure Cruise, they can mess up easily. Thought about Rest in Peace but i just think the 1 mana of Relic is a lot better. The Guttural Response is because there is 2 control players that are good, and the card is very unexpected but i might cut because i feel the matchup is still so good. The biggest problem i have is vs Tron. I'm thinking of putting even more Tron hate like Stony Silence since its by far the hardest matchup.