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Magic Market Index for April 20th, 2018
 
Pauper Review: Dominaria
 
The Limited Archetypes of Dominaria
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 16/04/2018)
    U right, I'd rather not want Twin actually now that you say that. There's been good arguments before, which is why I said it, but tbh I really don't want Splinter Twin back if we really dont need it
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 16/04/2018)
    Quote from Aazadan »

    I don't think that Grapeshot needs to be banned for Preordain to come back. I am not currently asking for Ponder. That card feels more "Legacy" to me, but perhaps we can talk about that at a much later date. If Control does run Preordain and other cantrips, that's a good thing. Maybe we will have an archetype that many people who complain about it here can learn to love?


    I think Ponder needs to stay banned. However, I wouldn't be opposed to U: Look at the top 3, you may either rearrange them or put them on the bottom of your library. Draw a card.

    Basically, I think the shuffle component would be a negative to the format, but I don't think the cantrip would be too good.

    Why exactly is Ponder too good for Modern. "Feels like Legacy" just isn't a good argument. As stated before, tempo is nowhere right now. Death's Shadow fell off, and if people are still afraid of Storm taking over, then its just unfounded fear. If Storm does pop off too much, then maybe I'm wrong, but I just dont see that happening when Humans is the best deck.

    At the very least I'd love Preordain unbanned.
    Next B&R announcement I'd like to see Stoneforge Mystic, Preordain, and Splinter Twin all unbanned. I'd like Ponder to just play an experiment but I bet that wont ever happen
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [Primer] Amulet Titan
    Quote from Doozay »
    I will be playing this in the team open coming up. Top 8'd and top 4'd two local team events with this list, thought I would share what I have been testing with.


    The only card I am up in the air on right now is the hive mind. I also think that Heron's Grace should be a staple in sideboards. Its one of the best possible creatures in the grindy match-ups that can also just hose burn.

    Do you think Serum Visions is better than Explore?
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on [Primer] Amulet Titan
    Dragonlord just loses to Path, i feel thats important vs control decks. However it looks better against other decks though
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 16/04/2018)
    It allows Blue to act on the combat damage axis something it really cannot do in modern right now. What is the best blue creature at swinging in for combat damage currently?

    The Spirits deck is a blue based tempo deck that wins via combat damage. The deck is very good against most Combo decks. Same can be said about Merfolk.

    I dont think we need True Name at all. Its a poorly designed card when it comes to non-multiplayer formats and was not intended or designed to be in competitive constructed in the first place (same with Leovold, Emissary of Trest for that matter but alas we are Modern, not Legacy). Blue is not a big bad creature based color, so not having a good creature shouldnt be a complaint. If you want to win with creatures, i think you are in the wrong color. A deck like Merfolk and Spirits would slot in TNN just because its OP
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 16/04/2018)
    Quote from Pokken »
    I really don't like the idea of free counterspells as being necessary for control to beat combo. If you want to beat combo play discard, since that's what this format has, or a critical mass of countermagic.

    Beating combo decks is easy. Play enough countermagic and sideboard some discard, be sure to play a decent clock.

    The problem is that when you want a control deck to beat combo (or on a related note, big mana) in modern you have to give up some points in aggro matchups. Go figure - control loses to aggro, news at 11.

    Modern is kind of a weird format in that control decks often have favorable aggro matchups but lose to combo decks. Because they don't play much countermagic.

    Combo specifically is not the problem in Modern. There is only 2 decks right now that would be considered tier 1 that are combo decks, Storm and KCI (and Titanshift probably), and both fold to cards like Rest in Peace and many other silver bullet cards that Modern has
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 16/04/2018)
    Quote from rogue_LOVE »
    Quote from Pistallion »
    If too much linearity is the complaint, we should look to Legacy and see how their interactive decks work so well.

    Firstly, Death's Shadow is the Delver of Modern. Right now, its surprisingly not doing as good as it was pre un-bannings of Jace and BBE. This is my reasoning that Street Wraith should not be banned due to Hallow One because it would kill Death's Shadow, which is a very skill intensive interactive deck. Traditional UR Delver, or pretty much any type of non- Death's Shadow tempo/ turbo-xerox pretty much can't exist in tier 1 Modern due to the tools that make the Legacy decks immensely powerful (Wasteland, Daze, Stifle).

    I think the better comparison to Legacy would be the 4c Control decks and the Miracles decks. I think the first interesting thing is how absent counter magic really is besides Force of Will. People always say that counter magic is weak in Modern, but is counter magic just bad in general unless its free? I don't think that FoW will ever be reprinted in Standard, so I don't think that we should hope for that, but I don't think that a UU spell like Counterspell would even help blue based control decks. Cards like Logic Knot and Mana Leak are legal, and yes they are very different than Counterspell, but how relevant is the unconditional counterspell against the current fast meta of Humans and Hallow One? This is a loaded question and there are much more implications on Counterpell vs Mana Leak, but I think that Counterpell is not the answer.

    The most glaring thing I see when it comes to Legacy control decks is how much better their cantrips are than Modern. Lets all be honest, Serum Visions is trash and I know most of the time it doesn't feel that great casting it when playing a control deck. I truly believe that if control decks were more consistent, Modern has the answers it needs. Look at all the removal in Legacy and you see that its all pretty much the same as Modern except Swords to Plowshares is traded with Path to Exile, which is not the biggest deal. I believe The main reason Legacy doesn't run Counterspell is because its simply less efficient to the abundance of the 1 CMC removal that both Legacy and Modern share.

    So my question is, why is Preordain and Ponder still banned? There's one blue based tier 1 combo deck, and that's Storm. In a meta full of Humans and Death's Shadow (presumably Death's Shadow would rise due to Ponder or Preordain unbaning), how could Storm really thrive? I see Ponder or Preordain buffing fair decks much more than unfair decks. I'd also love to see a printing of Portent or Predict to give more opportunities to gain card advantage.

    Lastly, I think it would be fine for Wotc to at least experiment with unbaning Stoneforge Mystic. If it serves to be too good or push out too many decks, then they can just reban it like they did with Golgari Grave Troll. I think that a short term experiment would be beneficial to the longevity of Magic's most popular format. Modern doesn't have Umezawa's Jitte and I believe that control decks really need efficient low cost threats that can also be answers.

    Agreed generally, but I think you're underselling Counterspell. Logic Knot is good enough that 3 is common in decks with enough cantrips and fetches to support it, despite multiples being clunky as hell (especially with Snapcaster). I also think it's a trap to look fore The One Answer that will put Modern Control to exactly the right power level (whatever that may be), and dismiss cards that don't fit the bill. Counterspell is a good upgrade, which is good enough for me.


    I posted before, but I agree and its important to know that there is no "One Answer." Here's what I said before:
    I think interactive decks suffer in modern not because of a single "missing part" but from a combination of many: actual good cantrips (Ponder/ Preordain/ Brainstorm), Efficient universal removal (Swords to Plowshares), efficient counter magic (Force of Will/ Counterspell), and efficient low cost threats that can also be answers (Stoneforge Mystic + Umezawa's Jitte/ Deathrite Shaman ).

    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 16/04/2018)
    If too much linearity is the complaint, we should look to Legacy and see how their interactive decks work so well.

    Firstly, Death's Shadow is the Delver of Modern. Right now, its surprisingly not doing as good as it was pre un-bannings of Jace and BBE. This is my reasoning that Street Wraith should not be banned due to Hallow One because it would kill Death's Shadow, which is a very skill intensive interactive deck. Traditional UR Delver, or pretty much any type of non- Death's Shadow tempo/ turbo-xerox pretty much can't exist in tier 1 Modern due to the tools that make the Legacy decks immensely powerful (Wasteland, Daze, Stifle).

    I think the better comparison to Legacy would be the 4c Control decks and the Miracles decks. I think the first interesting thing is how absent counter magic really is besides Force of Will. People always say that counter magic is weak in Modern, but is counter magic just bad in general unless its free? I don't think that FoW will ever be reprinted in Standard, so I don't think that we should hope for that, but I don't think that a UU spell like Counterspell would even help blue based control decks. Cards like Logic Knot and Mana Leak are legal, and yes they are very different than Counterspell, but how relevant is the unconditional counterspell against the current fast meta of Humans and Hallow One? This is a loaded question and there are much more implications on Counterpell vs Mana Leak, but I think that Counterpell is not the answer.

    The most glaring thing I see when it comes to Legacy control decks is how much better their cantrips are than Modern. Lets all be honest, Serum Visions is trash and I know most of the time it doesn't feel that great casting it when playing a control deck. I truly believe that if control decks were more consistent, Modern has the answers it needs. Look at all the removal in Legacy and you see that its all pretty much the same as Modern except Swords to Plowshares is traded with Path to Exile, which is not the biggest deal. I believe The main reason Legacy doesn't run Counterspell is because its simply less efficient to the abundance of the 1 CMC removal that both Legacy and Modern share.

    So my question is, why is Preordain and Ponder still banned? There's one blue based tier 1 combo deck, and that's Storm. In a meta full of Humans and Death's Shadow (presumably Death's Shadow would rise due to Ponder or Preordain unbaning), how could Storm really thrive? I see Ponder or Preordain buffing fair decks much more than unfair decks. I'd also love to see a printing of Portent or Predict to give more opportunities to gain card advantage.

    Lastly, I think it would be fine for Wotc to at least experiment with unbaning Stoneforge Mystic. If it serves to be too good or push out too many decks, then they can just reban it like they did with Golgari Grave Troll. I think that a short term experiment would be beneficial to the longevity of Magic's most popular format. Modern doesn't have Umezawa's Jitte and I believe that control decks really need efficient low cost threats that can also be answers.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [Primer] Amulet Titan
    When do we board in Ruric Thar, the Unbowed?

    Also what do u guys think about Sigarda, Host of Herons? It was a sideboard card when I used to play the deck with Summer Bloom. Seems like its unbeatable if playing Control or BGx
    Posted in: Big Mana
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 16/04/2018)
    Quote from ktkenshinx »
    Quote from Pistallion »
    According to this post, linearity is roughly 60% of the metagame, which is probably a problem

    How is this a problem? Back in December 2015 (http://modernnexus.com/modern-metagame-breakdown-121-1231/) in a metagame that was widely beloved and enshrined as diverse and interactive, the metagame was 56% linear and 44% non-linear. This considers only Tier 1 and Tier 2 decks like the Reddit analysis.

    Affinity 8.3%
    RG Tron 6.9%
    Burn 6%
    Amulet Bloom 4.2%
    Infect 3.7%
    Merfolk 3.6%
    Naya Company 2.3%
    Living End 2.2%
    Bogles 1.8%
    Ad Nauseam 1.8%

    Jund 6.6%
    UR Twin 6.2%
    Abzan 5.2%
    Grixis Twin 3.8%
    Scapeshift 3.1%
    Abzan Company 2.5%
    Grixis Midrange 2%
    Eldrazi 1.6%
    Jeskai Twin 1.5%
    If we're only +/-4% from that idealized time period, I think we're doing just fine. Incidentally, note that the collective Twin share was 35% of the non-linear metagame. If most of that has been replaced by other non-linear options, again, we are doing just fine.

    EDIT: I'll also add that his analysis hinges entirely on Humans being defined as a linear deck. That is by no means an open and shut issue, especially because he considers stuff like Abzan Company, Eldrazi Tron, and Knightfall as non-linear strategies.

    I dont think its a bad thing besides everyone thinking its a linear dominated meta, as seen by that post
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 16/04/2018)
    Quote from genini2 »
    Quote from Pistallion »
    According to this post, linearity is roughly 60% of the metagame, which is probably a problem


    Why is it a problem though? If 60% of the metagame is linear then 40% of the metagame is non linear which means if you want to play a non-linear deck you absolutely can. We aren't going to get 50/50 ratios in something as uncontrollable as MTG.

    Actually nothing suggests we will or should be at 50/50. It actually suggests the contrary that interactivity dominates other formats
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 16/04/2018)
    According to this post, linearity is roughly 60% of the metagame, which is probably a problem
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 16/04/2018)
    Quote from micarc »
    @drop4unbans: Modern is accelerating as a format, while the power level grows up. This means that old cards like AV or jtms, even if they are strong cards on their own, are losing ground due to how fast and unforgiving modern is. In most of the cases, during the development of a match in the first three turns you can actually tell if a game is won or lost. In this scenario, "slower" (cmc 4+) cards need a consistent early support, or they just are almost completely unuseful, no matter how strong they are on their own. Cards do not exist in a vacuum, they always have a context (architects as me should know the importance of a given context to analyse and define relationships between objects - in this case, cards).
    Personally, I think the only way to stop this process is a change in the card-design criteria (lower the cmc of generic answers spells - since they can actually slow down fast and proactive - or noninteractive - strategies). If modern gets a cmc2 or less solid counterspell effect, then jtms could actually become a pillar of the format (like lotv already is). Until then, it is just too slow to be significantly impactful. Any experienced control player could have easly foretlod this omg-jtms-actually-sucks scenario.

    Speed does not affect cards like Jtms and AV. Those cards are made for card advantage and rely heavily what other cards surround them in the format. Jace is a heavily played card in Vintage and Legacy, which are significantly faster. They just have much more powerful cards surrounding them to increase the power level. In the same vein is why Brainstorm is restricted in Vintage.

    If we look at Legacy, we can see that most control decks don't run many counterspells. They mainly just run a 4 of Force of Will. The reason for this is because there is no reason to play greater than 1 cmc interaction prices when you have efficient removal in Swords to Plowshares, Lightning Bolt, Fatal Push and efficient counter spells in FoW and Flusterstorm.

    I think interactive decks suffer in modern not because of a single "missing part" but from a combination of many: actual good cantrips (Ponder/ Preordain/ Brainstorm), Efficient universal removal (Swords to Plowshares), efficient counter magic (Force of Will/ Counterspell), and efficient low cost threats that can also be answers (Stoneforge Mystic + Umezawa's Jitte/ Deathrite Shaman ).

    I am not saying we need any of these cards legal in Modern, but Im simply outlining why there's roughly 20% of linear deck meta share in legacy compared roughly 60% in Modern and how interactive strategies work so well in legacy
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Azorius Charm is a trash card for Modern and is only a Standard/ block card
    Valorous Stance is too narrow.
    Roast hits things smaller than 4, which is very important against decks like Humans. What do we really need to kill in the current meta that has 4cmc or higher? Primeval Titan? Roast hits a higher percentage of creatures that are in the meta.

    I'd say that the only other good consideration would be Abrade
    Posted in: Control
  • posted a message on Jeskai Control
    Quote from TheAller »
    Quote from Pistallion »
    Quote from TheAller »
    Quote from Nickatknight »
    Quote from TheAller »
    I have no idea why you play Roast in a Jeskai Control deck. Something's wrong with your manabase, you've got 20 lands. Probably Flooded Strand is the issue. If your meta is big mana I think your should increase your ability to put pressure (Clique?) and counter their spells efficiently (Ceremonious Rejection, Disdainful Stroke).


    The lands didn't copy correctly. It's supposed to be 24.

    And how is roast not good against big mana?


    What big mana deck are you thinking about specifically? The only one where it's acceptable is Eldrazi, but even then, you have so many better choices in our colors.


    Adding another removal spell that hits things that are 5 toughness is good. Things that Bolt doesn't hit but Roast does: Thought-Knot Seer, Reality Smasher, Tarmogoyf, Champion of the Parish, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, Gurmag Angler, Hollow One, and Death's Shadow. Being a Sorcery is fine, and sometimes its nice to have a removal that hits these cards that doesn't have a huge drawback like Path does. Also adding a 5th copy of a removal adds about 8-9% chance increase to have a Path or Roast in your starting hand


    I'll be honest, I can't believe you guys really think Roast is a good choice in Jeskai. If 4 Path aren't enough for you, you have Supreme Verdict, Blessed Alliance, Detention Sphere. All of these cards are better than Roast. Roast has been out there for quite some time, never saw play in Jeskai, there must be a reason for that. Heck, even maindeck Engineered Explosives is better than Roast.

    It depends on your meta. And Supreme Verdict is not a good comparison. 4 mana is too late sometimes.
    Posted in: Control
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