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  • posted a message on [POLL] What cards do you want banned or unbanned in the January 21, 2019, announcement?
    Quote from purklefluff »
    even though I own the deck, I'd be fine with a KCI ban.

    stirrings though? that'd be a *****ty move. there are a bunch of completely reasonable decks that would be blind-sided by such a ban, it wouldn't be a sensible choice.


    I agree with this. I think Wellspring is a much fairer ban because it will only hurt KCI and KCI alone.

    I think Scrap Trawler should be the ban. Force them to go back to Eggs style
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    I don't think Twin talk should be off limits, but it needs to be stifled some tbh. Theres many times we begin talking about something on this thread and someone mentions Twin, and the same points come up over and over and warps the whole conversation. Things like KCI ban discussion, "winners meta" discussion, data points about Stirrings, etc, gets drowned out once Twin gets mentioned because a lot of people see it as The Solution to "fix Modern. I think it should be moved to a separate topic because it really has become its own topic that is outside the current meta and future of Modern discussion
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    Quote from gkourou »
    Matt Nass is streaming at twitch right now. He is talking a lot about KCI. I asked him what does he think about a potential banning, and he said that "it's natural that the deck is going to be banned. I am not certain, but I assume that's what's going to happen".
    Some folks asked him about Opal or Stirrings and he said "Diversity is why you are playing modern. if you ban one of those cards, you are deleting this aspect of the game."
    He also thinks Trawler and Wellspring are interesting bannings and that's the right ban. All in all, he is admitting a ban needs to happen. Given that he is a pro who is earning money from the deck, it takes a lot of courage to admit that on camera.

    Source: https://www.twitch.tv/matthewlnass

    Do you have the timestamp when he talks about the potential banning of KCI
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    Quote from MrTzoulis »
    Quote from cfusionpm »
    [quote from="MrTzoulis »" url="/forums/the-game/modern/801804-the-state-of-modern-thread-b-r-26-11-2018?comment=1888"]BGx also has that T1 threat and we know the numbers on that matchup as being even.

    Other than that, Twin was hiding Blue's (and the format's as a whole) woes with a mask of "interactivity" that was toxic to better cards entering the format via either unbannings or new printings and you people keep ignoring that.

    This was a super important thing to happen from the Twin Ban. Blue just was so bad if you exclude the Twin decks at the time, and removing Twin showed Wotc it needed help. If Twin sacrificed itself for the color BLue, then tbh I'm fine with it being resurrected by Wotc
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    Classic Eggs could easily exist even without KCI. It would use the Faith's Reward loop like the original did with Second Sunrise. It would be tier 2 at best, but it hasn't been innovated recently due to the rise of current Ironworks. We have gotten a lot more tools like Whir of Invention, so who know, it could be a decent deck. Can't foresee it being tier 1 any time soon at all though. I don't even think Second Sunrise version was tier 1, and the card itself wasn't banned due to power level/ meta share reasonings.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    The main deck is super resistant outside of Stony Silence and Rest in Peace/ Leyline of the Void
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    Quote from 13055 »
    If just KCI/Trawler takes a hit, we still are in the world where colorless decks (which have leaned towards combo lately) still have a dig-5 1 mana spell, which is so far above what the rest of the format gets in terms of digging power. I think WotC is more preoccupied with the simple fact of KCI's dominance, but I personally believe it would behoove them to try to take a broader picture of the format, which I hope would involve taking a look at not just the broken engine parts, but the enablers which allow decks to be so much more consistent than the "fair" competitors of the format.

    Well I am an advocate for unbanning of Preordain. Just because a card is powerful, in the case for Stirrings, doesn't mean they should ban it. We need to look at the data, and if it is drastically different without Ironworks, then we advocate to ban the problematic card directly, which would be KCI or Trawler
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    Quote from ktkenshinx »
    UR Phoenix won though, so I think KCI is safe. I've heard from some people from my local store that Faithless Looting is more of a problem than Ancient Stirrings. I personally don't think so. Faithless Looting is at least somewhat hurt by grave hate while Ancient Stirrings is hurt by … super quick goldfish decks. I will say that Faithless Looting is definitely a hell of a card though!

    Speaking purely for GP T8 numbers and nothing else, Looting isn't nearly as prevalent as Stirrings throughout 2018. If we compare all Lootings decks throughout the entire year to all Stirrings decks over the same time period, we find Stirrings at 27.3% of the T8 decks and Looting at 14.8%. SV/Opt decks are 21%. If you exclude the Team and PT events and look just at individual GP, it's 29.8% Stirrings, 13.5% Looting, and 21.1% SV/Opt. There's just no annual perspective where Looting is dominant at this level.

    If we eliminate KCI from that data set, would it change drastically? The reason I ask is that if KCI/Trawler is banned and not Stirrings, then that might be a better outcome
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    We have enough removal tbh. The two major ones that Legacy has is STP and Council's Judgment. I think the answer would be to have better counterspells. IMO its all relative, and Mana Leak was probably deemed to powerful due to other cards like teferi existing in the Standard format right now. It also doesnt help that Mana Leak alongside Ponder and Delver is still fresh in Wotc's memory
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    Quote from ElectricEye »
    Quote from Pistallion »
    Quote from 13055 »
    Quote from BlueTronFTW »
    Mengucci has hated modern for years for the same reason that many pros dislike it - they always want a best deck, and modern basically never has a best deck due to the size of the field. I like this because its ultimately fair - everyone's deck has a major weakness or two and we all have the chance of running into that rough matchup on a given weekend.


    Which is what I find supremely ironic about all the hate KCI is getting from Pros - it is literally what they are constantly asking for! A clear best deck that takes skill to pilot. I don't know what would make Pros happy with Modern at the point.

    Its not what they want. They want an interactive deck that can leverage skill


    Engineered Explosives, Nature's Claim, Spine of Ish Shah, Pyrite Spellbomb, and various counterspells and removal spells out of the sideboard are all interactive elements found in KCI.

    Maybe it's not the type of interaction they want, but it's hard to deny that the deck interacts at least somewhat.

    Dude its a combo deck. Look at all the combo deck sideboards, they pack removal for hate cards. EE for Stony Silence, Spellbomb for Thalia, etc. I'm a combo deck player and against bans most of the time, but I understand why Mengu doesn't like Modern tbh

    Quote from BlueTronFTW »
    Quote from 13055 »
    Quote from BlueTronFTW »
    Mengucci has hated modern for years for the same reason that many pros dislike it - they always want a best deck, and modern basically never has a best deck due to the size of the field. I like this because its ultimately fair - everyone's deck has a major weakness or two and we all have the chance of running into that rough matchup on a given weekend.


    Which is what I find supremely ironic about all the hate KCI is getting from Pros - it is literally what they are constantly asking for! A clear best deck that takes skill to pilot. I don't know what would make Pros happy with Modern at the point.


    I've played enough Mtg and League of Legends to know this: skill is just something talked about for bragging purposes. "Oh, not only did I win but it was complex and tough so I'm even more awesome." That's why people who lose to me on burn occasionally say things like how I only won because I didn't have to think. Well duh, dude. Why intentionally make something harder if the goal is to win?

    "Skill" is just the wrong term. I would say that the correct terms are usually Difficulty, Skill/Difficulty Ceiling or Skill/Difficulty Floor or Skill Intensiveness. What happens is that a deck or champion or whatever is deemed high skill when there becomes a plethora ways to approach a game state and the clear cut win condition isn't easily identified. Lee Sin from LoL and Amulet Titan is a prime example. Amulet has super hard lines to identify but they also have the double amulet braindead kill. Lee has his RQQ combo. Burn is seen as less skill intensive because in most matchups, you just Lava Spike
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    Quote from 13055 »
    Quote from BlueTronFTW »
    Mengucci has hated modern for years for the same reason that many pros dislike it - they always want a best deck, and modern basically never has a best deck due to the size of the field. I like this because its ultimately fair - everyone's deck has a major weakness or two and we all have the chance of running into that rough matchup on a given weekend.


    Which is what I find supremely ironic about all the hate KCI is getting from Pros - it is literally what they are constantly asking for! A clear best deck that takes skill to pilot. I don't know what would make Pros happy with Modern at the point.

    Its not what they want. They want an interactive deck that can leverage skill
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    Quote from DaveJacinto »
    Quote from Pistallion »
    Why is Humans so low now?
    Spirits is straight up better I guess...

    Where was all the spirits to hold down the Combo though?

    Also KCI in a Thopter Sword deck is much different and much worse. The reason why Ironworks is so good is because of how hard it is to hate out. Graveyard hate hardly hurts them. There's a reason why Thopter Sword is nowhere to be seen
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    Why is Humans so low now?
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    I don't think its interaction that is the best to alleviate the disadvantage of being on the draw, its powerful cantrips. Modern doesnt have turn 1 or 2 combo decks, so there is no real need for Force of Will. Legacy lives on the back of FoW and Brainstorm to find FoW. If it wasn't the case, then Brainstorm would have been banned long time ago. The funny thing is, while consistent turn 2 kills exist in Legacy, interactive strategies usually are at the top of meta in Legacy because of powerful cantrips and interaction.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    Because the resources are built into the deck, the range of hands are extremely wide. On top of that, like I said before about how card advantage is so important, the fact that the solution to alleviate bad hands is to give someone card disadvantage is a bad solution imo.
    Partial mulliganing like in Hearthstone might be a bad solution, but the game is extremely different. In poker, for example, if you get a bad hand you just fold, essentially losing nothing. In magic, you can literally lose the game outright from one mulligan
    Posted in: Modern
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