2 Mardu Pyro lists from the PT were playing Nahiri (plus the Mardu PW deck) -- what matchups is she for? Seems like quite an expensive PW for our deck for effects we can get cheaper in other cards.
For those of you playing 2-3 Molten Rain, what decks are you bringing those in for besides Tron/Valakut? I struggle to dedicate that many slots for big mana decks when my win% with those is still low and they seem narrow. Maybe I'm missing other matchups in which Stone Rain is a good card?
If you’re new to the deck I would highly recommend taking Thiago or Gerry’s list and running the exact 75. Their lists, while a bit different, are balanced with good SBs covering the current meta.
Seal of Primordium is another solid option. Nice to plop it on the table ahead of the hate cards coming down (for things like Blood Moon). I'm currently running a 1/1 split of Grudge and Seal.
I see Surgical Extraction being boarded in a LOT. Can we talk about what the typical targets are and what you're looking to achieve with them in the different matchups? (Ramp & Tron / Control / Mirror)
I've found that playing 19 lands necessitates the use of utility lands in the SB (Tec Edge, Ghost Quarter). Curving to 4 mana for MoW against Jund for example without Vials is not reliable. I'm current playing 2-3 Tec Edge SB in all my 19 land configurations.
I think the UW "painful mana base" is being blown out of proportion a bit in this thread by folks that I'm guessing haven't really put it through it's paces. In the matchups like Burn where you would imagine this being a major liability, do you really feel like fetching for a Hallowed Fountain to cast Path is really worse than casting Dismember? There are plenty of games where you get pain-free White mana from either Wanderwine or Seachrome Coast turning on Path to Exile which are inherently less painful draws than anything with Dismember in it.
My personal list runs 4x Fetch, 2x Hallowed Fountain, 4x Wanderwine and 2x Seachrome Coast. I was originally running 1x Hallowed Fountain, but I've added the second as there are times post-board or with Sygg, River Guide in play when fetching for your second white source is valuable. The real downside is playing Seachrome Coast which is relevant as your 4th mana is quite critical at times. I would not play more than 2.
Here's my UW list just as a reference for those interested:
It's my hope that Harbinger will allow us to increase our creature density slightly by acting as a Vapor Snag on a stick. It also makes our Vial on 2 that much more potent. In my initial testing it has been strong.
Great comments and feedback all around, so thanks to the group for the active discussion.
For my next event I will be giving U/w a try since I was fortunate enough to have all the Wanderine Hubs and necessary sideboard components to put it all in place. Some part of me is also looking forward to sucking all the basics out of people's decks with path/ghost quarter and slapping a Spreading Seas on their only non-blue basic
The mana base feels pretty aggressive with only 13 Blue Sources + 1 Cavern. It's certainly not as stable as the Mono U version I've been running. It's unclear to me if running Ghost Quarter + Path in the deck is worth it, but it's something I'd like to try seeing as so many of the decks rely on their lands or delve creatures to win currently. I've been relatively underwhelmed with Cosi's Trickster thus far in my testing so I've stuck with Cursecatcher.
Feedback on individual card choices is always appreciated, most specifically Tec Edge vs Ghost Quarter, Kira vs Spellskite, or alternative mana bases.
Looks a ton better, just work on your SB plans. Looks like you have the tools necessary as long as your board correctly. I don't love Doomwake personally, you have enough ways to clear the board with 5 sweepers. Stick with Stormbreath, he'll win you games
Hitting double-black for Hero's Downfall is going to be problematic with your mana base. There is absolutely no reason to be running 6 mountain in a deck without Chained to the Rocks. I'd start by shaving 2-3 mountains, adding an Urborg and some more R/x mana sources.
I think Utter End can sub-in for one of the Downfalls as it's a great universal answer main board. More than one Erebos also seems like over-kill and you'd be better served simply playing an erase to battle the Whip decks. I recommend a 2nd Elspeth when playing the Anger/End Hostilities post-board.
You have a lot of 3cmc 1:1 removal and I worry that your Jeskai Tokens matchup will be a challenge. I would personally run the full playset of Hordeling Outburst and likely shave 1 Stoke.
2 Anger/Brimaz main has been serving me well alongside the Thoughtseize for early disruption. Chandra has pulled her weight as well (in lieu of the 2nd Sorin).
My testing partner has been on Tokens since Worlds and I've had a lot of practice. My matchup has gone from abysmal to about 45/55 game 1 and a heavy favorite post-board with 4x Anger and some Ascendancy removal.
I'm quite surprised to see how few people have been adapting Mardu to changes in the Meta. The current tier of decks appears to be 1) Abzan variants (Whip or not), 2) Jeskai Tokens, 3) W/U Heroic and 4) G/B/x including Sidisi and/or straight GB.
Top cards against these in my experience are:
- Thoughtseize
- Anger of the Gods
- Chandra, Pyromaster
- Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Overall, cards that are weaker are:
- Chained to the Rocks (so much Erase/Glare, even main deck)
- Sorin & Sarkhan (overwhelmed by Tokens in my experience)
- Lightning Strike (Mantis Rider was the primary target here outside of Rabblemaster)
With these changes in mind, here is my current list vs the meta we've been seeing:
The sideboard is still a work in progress, but overall I've been pretty happy with it. I'll be taking close to this 75 to the PTQ & PPTQ this coming weekend. The biggest miss is Seeker from the typical Mardu shells, but Anger really gives you the ability to play catch-up in a ton of matches. Bringing Thoughtseize main has been a huge been against Jeskai Tokens and absolutely tears apart W/U herioc which is hugely favorable matchup in my testing.
Just thought I'd share with the group since everyone is proclaiming the downfall of Mardu which IMO is being vastly overstated. Changes are definitely needed to the main deck but we certainly still have all the necessary tools to compete.
Jeskai/Grixis Control, Jund/Abzan, Death's Shadow -- basically any midrange/control deck that can go bigger than you and has a 3+ color manabase.
My personal list runs 4x Fetch, 2x Hallowed Fountain, 4x Wanderwine and 2x Seachrome Coast. I was originally running 1x Hallowed Fountain, but I've added the second as there are times post-board or with Sygg, River Guide in play when fetching for your second white source is valuable. The real downside is playing Seachrome Coast which is relevant as your 4th mana is quite critical at times. I would not play more than 2.
Here's my UW list just as a reference for those interested:
4x Flooded Strand
2x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
4x Mutavault
2x Seachrome Coast
4x Wanderwine Hub
4x Cursecatcher
3x Harbinger of the Tides
4x Lord of Atlantis
4x Master of the Pearl Trident
4x Master of Waves
3x Merrow Reejerey
4x Silvergill Adept
1x Sygg, River Guide
1x Relic of Progenitus
4x Spreading Seas
4x Path to Exile
1x Dispel
2x Kataki, War's Wage
1x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2x Rest in Peace
1x Spellskite
3x Stony Silence
2x Swan Song
3x Tidebinder Mage
4x Cursecatcher
4x Harbinger of the Tides
4x Lord of Atlantis
4x Master of the Pearl Trident
4x Master of Waves
3x Merrow Reejerey
4x Silvergill Adept
4x AEther Vial
1x Relic of Progenitus
4x Flooded Strand
1x Hallowed Fountain
3x Island
4x Mutavault
3x Seachrome Coast
4x Wanderwine Hub
4x Path to Exile
1x Dispel
2x Kataki, War's Wage
2x Rest in Peace
1x Sea's Claim
1x Spellskite
3x Stony Silence
2x Swan Song
3x Tidebinder Mage
For my next event I will be giving U/w a try since I was fortunate enough to have all the Wanderine Hubs and necessary sideboard components to put it all in place. Some part of me is also looking forward to sucking all the basics out of people's decks with path/ghost quarter and slapping a Spreading Seas on their only non-blue basic
Here is my latest iteration:
1x Cavern of Souls
3x Flooded Strand
3x Ghost Quarter
1x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
4x Mutavault
3x Seachrome Coast
4x Wanderwine Hub
Artifact (5)
4x AEther Vial
1x Relic of Progenitus
4x Cursecatcher
4x Lord of Atlantis
4x Master of the Pearl Trident
4x Master of Waves
3x Merrow Reejerey
4x Silvergill Adept
1x Spellskite
Instant (6)
4x Path to Exile
2x Spell Pierce
Enchantment (4)
4x Spreading Seas
1x Dismember
1x Dispel
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Kataki, War's Wage
2x Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
2x Rest in Peace
3x Stony Silence
3x Tidebinder Mage
The mana base feels pretty aggressive with only 13 Blue Sources + 1 Cavern. It's certainly not as stable as the Mono U version I've been running. It's unclear to me if running Ghost Quarter + Path in the deck is worth it, but it's something I'd like to try seeing as so many of the decks rely on their lands or delve creatures to win currently. I've been relatively underwhelmed with Cosi's Trickster thus far in my testing so I've stuck with Cursecatcher.
Feedback on individual card choices is always appreciated, most specifically Tec Edge vs Ghost Quarter, Kira vs Spellskite, or alternative mana bases.
I think Utter End can sub-in for one of the Downfalls as it's a great universal answer main board. More than one Erebos also seems like over-kill and you'd be better served simply playing an erase to battle the Whip decks. I recommend a 2nd Elspeth when playing the Anger/End Hostilities post-board.
You have a lot of 3cmc 1:1 removal and I worry that your Jeskai Tokens matchup will be a challenge. I would personally run the full playset of Hordeling Outburst and likely shave 1 Stoke.
My testing partner has been on Tokens since Worlds and I've had a lot of practice. My matchup has gone from abysmal to about 45/55 game 1 and a heavy favorite post-board with 4x Anger and some Ascendancy removal.
Top cards against these in my experience are:
- Thoughtseize
- Anger of the Gods
- Chandra, Pyromaster
- Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Overall, cards that are weaker are:
- Chained to the Rocks (so much Erase/Glare, even main deck)
- Sorin & Sarkhan (overwhelmed by Tokens in my experience)
- Lightning Strike (Mantis Rider was the primary target here outside of Rabblemaster)
With these changes in mind, here is my current list vs the meta we've been seeing:
3x Battlefield Forge
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Caves of Koilos
3x Mountain
4x Nomad Outpost
1x Swamp
1x Temple of Malice
2x Temple of Silence
4x Temple of Triumph
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Planeswalker (3)
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
4x Crackling Doom
3x Lightning Strike
1x Murderous Cut
1x Utter End
Creature (13)
2x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4x Butcher of the Horde
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
3x Stormbreath Dragon
Sorcery (10)
2x Anger of the Gods
4x Hordeling Outburst
4x Thoughtseize
2x Anger of the Gods
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2x End Hostilities
2x Erase
1x Glare of Heresy
2x Hushwing Gryff
2x Read the Bones
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1x Utter End
The sideboard is still a work in progress, but overall I've been pretty happy with it. I'll be taking close to this 75 to the PTQ & PPTQ this coming weekend. The biggest miss is Seeker from the typical Mardu shells, but Anger really gives you the ability to play catch-up in a ton of matches. Bringing Thoughtseize main has been a huge been against Jeskai Tokens and absolutely tears apart W/U herioc which is hugely favorable matchup in my testing.
Just thought I'd share with the group since everyone is proclaiming the downfall of Mardu which IMO is being vastly overstated. Changes are definitely needed to the main deck but we certainly still have all the necessary tools to compete.