I played this deck last week at FMN and I went 2-2. I played an Esper control matchup and there is almost nothing that I could to to beat them since we run no creatures.
I played a sideboard that consisted of the following
Day's Undoing was a lot of fun. It's like resetting the game state but you keep your lands. Sure your opponent gets to go first but if you play it late enough and have mana open, you might draw a hand of counter magic to counter everything they want to play next turn.
Displacement Wave is necessary to bounce those walkers that I had to play against. Sure they can play them again, but if it takes their entire turn to do, then I am oaky with that.
I never got to play Disciple of the Ring but if I did I would imagine that she would have been a house in this deck. Let me do all of the things for 1 mana because you get a lot of spells in the graveyard.
I did have an opponent tell me that the deck would benefit from playing a 1 or 2 Sphinx of the Final Word. It seems good to me. Plus it can block most things all day long. So if we are playing a control deck it might actually work. I think that the more mono-blue control cards we utilize the better we will do. Honestly I think that moving all of the adverse conditions to the sideboard would be good for this deck. However, I want to see if I can curve out an entire Brain in the Jar trigger. What do you think?
You will now have a PW and will have dealt 16 damage by turn 3. The next turn you win unless they board wipe. The format will be slower unless B/R vampires takes off but it has gotten so much hate at this point I don't see that happening in the first 2 weeks. After that is anyone's guess.
After lots of deckbuilding and playtesting, I think we need to change our tune on what exactly this deck is. We need to focus less on the "Ally" part of the deck and more on the "Equipment". Here's what I came up with (and will likely be bringing to GPNY):
Lands
1 Sea Gate Wreckage - This card is great topdeck in the late-game, when we've played out our hand and need to draw more threats. Getting one of these in our opening hand or the early game also tells us that we can risk overextending for a quick, aggressive win since we'll be able to recover in the case of a boardwipe.
3 Needle Spires - I love this card. Yes, we risk it slowing down our opening hand, but this card consistantly proves that it can win us the game. It gives us something to swing with after a boardwipe, and occasionally gets HUGE with things like a Gideon emblem, a Weapons Trainer buff, or Captain's Claws.
4 Ally Encampment - This land is insane. It casts Weapons Trainer, Thought-Knot Seer, and protects all of our Allies from kill spells when left untapped. It's probably the best land in the deck.
4 Battlefield Forge - I like this for the same reasons I like Ally Encampment.
10 Plains - I don't run Mountains in this deck because, with the addition of Thought-Knot Seer, this is essentially a white devoid deck. By cutting out red cards, the deck is far more consistent and, through that consistency, more powerful.
Creatures
3 Stoneforge Acolyte - This card is either great or mediocre. For a one-drop, I'm fine with that range of possibilities. In this deck, his ability whiffs a bit too frequently, but can be frequently activated on turn two. In the late game, it's just a body that you can throw all of your Equipment on. I play this over Kytheon, Hero of Akros because you can cast it off a turn one Ally Encampment. If you want your deck to be super aggressive, replace this card with Expedition Envoy.
3 Kor Bladewhirl - First strike matters. I repeat, FIRST STRIKE MATTERS. Playing this turn two followed by equipping it with Captain's Claws on turn three means you're swinging with a 3-power first striker that your opponent needs a spell to deal with. Topdecking it in the mid- or late-game means you're giving your ENTIRE BOARD first strike. It's a great, value-generating two drop.
4 Relic Seeker - This card gets renowned far more often than you might think. A turn three Silkwrap or Stasis Snare means that you're tutoring for whatever Equipment best fits your current hand. Its downsides are that it's not an Ally and that it's generally a bad topdeck in the late game. If you reduce this card to a 3-of in your deck, replace it with a fourth Kor Bladewhirl.
4 Stone Haven Outfitter - An Equipment lord! Having one of these guys on the field is great in any situation, as they make your opponent's removal spells, combat trades, and boardwipes worse.
4 Weapons Trainer - Another Equipment lord! What I love about this card is that, paired with Captain's Claws, it makes those 1/1 tokens into viable 2/1 threats. Not just that, but on its own, it's a 3/2 for two mana. This card is great at any point in the game.
4 Thought-Knot Seer - This card is why we cut out red from the deck, and let me tell you, it's WORTH IT. It plucks your opponent's boardwipe, removal spell, or bomb creature from their hand, while leaving behind a resilient 4/4 that can win you the game with a few swings. I'd go so far as to call this the best card in the deck.
Artifacts
2 Stoneforge Masterwork - Equipping for two mana is a lot. Like, A LOT. It matters a lot more than you think, and rarely does this card provide the situational blowouts you might think it does. But when those blowout happen (such as when you have a field full of Allies) it wins the game handily. If you feel that the deck needs more Equipment, go ahead and play a third copy of this card.
4 Captain's Claws This is the best Equipment card in Standard. When you have only one creature out on the battlefield, this card can potentially generate a field of tokens for you. If your opponent is busy chump-blocking them, then that means your much larger creature is getting through to their life total. If they aren't chump-blocked, then the token lingers on the field waiting to be buffed by something or equipped with something else. Having multiple Captain's Claws on the field is absolutely bonkers too, and the +1/+0 is not a buff that should be neglected. An extra one power can do a lot of work against certain creatures.
Enchantments
3 Silkwrap - This card is great at getting rid of your opponent's value-generating early-game creatures, like Sylvan Advocate and Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, but I wouldn't run four of them because of what a bad late-game draw they tend to be.
3 Stasis Snare - Being able to get rid of any huge creature is super valuable ability to have, especially when you can do it at instant speed. I don't run four of these because of the double-white in the mana cost, plus the fact that it costs 3 mana to get rid of a single creature.
Planeswalkers
3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar - This card generates a board state, pumps all of your creatures, and/or becomes a huge creature to close out the game with. There's a reason it's one of the best cards in Standard.
Sideboard
4 Declaration in Stone - Replace all your Silkwraps and a Stasis Snare with these when going up against a deck with fewer small, low-drop creatures.
4 Surge of Righteousness - Take out all your Stasis Snares and a Silkwrap for these when you're up against the R/B Vampire aggro deck that will inevitibly rise out of this upcoming Standard format.
3 Matter Reshaper - Take out all your Stasis Snares for these when you're up against another aggro deck. Not only does it trade with their attacking creature, but it can also potentially provide you with a creature to replace it.
If you don't want to play up the Ally portion of this deck, why are you still playing Stoneforge Mastwerwork? You've got so few Ally's, some Soldiers, and a playset of a single Eldrazi. I cannot see how that card would benefit your build at all. The issue I see is that you have taken an aggro deck and slowed it down tremendously by adding minimal removal. How are you winning late game if you don't kill them by turn 4-5? Also, how are you handling board wipes with a slower build? After rotation, Languish and Kozilek's Return will be fantastic since three color decks are hardly viable going forward.
If you're looking for removal, Nahiri, The Harbinger is the way tog o. Plus, if you are playing a control deck and they aren't swinging at her we can continuously use her plus ability to filter through our deck faster. She;s much stronger for our deck than Gideon because she provides us with the removal that this deck lacks. I think she is a better choice than situational enchantments.
I think they work well together but it's definitely for a different deck. Those are much to slow for this aggro deck. I think that those belong in the Starfield of Nyx deck.
I completely agree. I will say that when I first started to play this deck, I didn't think the Kor Bladewhirl was a good move. IT IS. Also, I do think that Firemantle Mage could be moved to the sideboard if we found a card that really fit into the maindeck. The reason I say this is, I have been playing a lot of Mardu blue with Jace or Jeskai with Jace and they haven't been playing many creatures.
However, we don't know what we will see after rotation so keeping the Firemantle Mage may need to stay maindeck.
Well to start I'm excited to try Nahiri, the Harbinger. She just works well with the cards in this deck but I don't knwo if she is worth cutting from the main deck. The other card I am most excited about is Skeleton Key. This will give us the card selectio that we so desperately need. The issue is that we get card selection over explosive early plays with Bone Saw into surged Reckless Bushwhacker.
Oh Lord I am excited for SOI. So many good things coming for this deck... That Nahiri they spoiled, and new Avacyn among others as a top end of the curve feels like it would be awesome.
Anyway, GP Houston was...not good Ran into a wall of Bant Company and ended up going 2-4 in the main event. I was happy though - 2 wins is far better than I did at the last GP I went to! Could get around to uploading my notes, but I've iterated on the deck so much since then that so it might as well be skipped. Next test for the deck is a PPTQ/1k tournament on Saturday, which should be interesting.
In the meantime, I got 4th in an FNM with it a couple weeks ago! Going for the win this week after having to skip last week's tournament. Have any of y'all thought about splashing :symb:? Kalastria Healer and perhaps Zulaport Cutthroat are amazing for tempo in this deck. Well, still testing the latter, but the Healer is what got me the top 4 (and my first top 8 ever) Bant Company is still a challenge, as is Eldrazi Ramp, but this is quickly becoming my favorite standard deck in a [i]long[/i] time. One of the top players at my LGS (went deep into day 2 at said GP) was on Atarka Red when I played him during the FNM and I managed to comfortably outrace that deck. Reckless Bushwhacker is an All-Star, no other way to put it.
Removal is still a question mark - I feel like the deck needs [i]something[i] to answer a big threat like Dragonlord Atarka, various planeswalkers, and so on, or to stabilize after an opponent goes wide with Collected Company or the like. So what did I do? Bought the deck on MTGO along with a playset of every removal spell in standard :laugh2::laugh2: of course. Figure I could use all the extra practice I can get if I'm setting my sights on PPTQs and such... Plus Friday nights just feel weird when I can't go out to an LGS and play - this could be the solution to that. I'll always be a paper player first and foremost, but getting more (and better) practice can help I would think.
Anyway, here's the latest iteration I've played with:
Now I put it out like that, 30 creatures seems a little heavy - maybe I'll tone it down for Veteran's Sidearm or something. Thoughts? I love the idea of Stoneforge Masterwork, but it feels more like a "win more" card that doesn't help if and when I really need the extra boost.
Unless I counted wrong, this deck is missing 4 cards and all of the equipment in the main board. How many equipment are you playing. Also, I think that adding a third color without fetches is a bad idea for this deck. It's viable now with fetched and fetchable duels, but in three weeks that will be gone.
Congratulations. I have had an immense amount of success with this deck. Now that a new PW card (who will remain nameless) was spoiled and may or may not search for Artifact was revealed, I would assume that we will get some new artifact's to play around with. Only time will tell.
The Ally Encampment is really useful early game to get our color fix but late game to avoid having our creatures killed. Additionally, I have found it useful to bounce an ally back to my hand just so I can trigger rally for another creature.
Say I have a Kor Bladewhirl and 2 Expedition Envoy on the battlefield. If at the of my opponents turn I realize I won't be able to trigger rally next turn but I can get some damage through if I could trigger rally, I could pay 1 and sacrifice Ally Encampment to return Kor Bladewhirl to my hand so I am guaranteed a rally trigger for my Expedition Envoys the next turn.
I have also done this when I have had a card to cast in hand and a Reckless Bushwhacker on the battlefield. I sacrifice Ally Encampment to return the Reckless Bushwhacker to my hand so next turn I can cast him with surge giving any creature that I have on the battlefield more power the next turn. It's really useful on turns 5-8. It's also the best when your opponent is open and you control one creature and cast Kytheon, Hero of Akros into a surged Reckless Bushwhacker flipping Kytheon, Hero of Akros that turn.
I understand where you are coming from with some of your descriptions. I do have some advise though.
- Everyone loves Pia and Kiran Nalaar. I think this is more of a sideboard card. If you are playing a control deck it can help to even out the board. I might not cut them if you are happy with them. I have not tried them but I want to keep the cmc low to play an aggro version.
- If you don't like Deflecting Palm, try Rending Volley. It takes care of Jeskai. Roast is also great for those big ramp decks or it can be another way to burn Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. The card I have been unhappy with is Relic Seeker. I've found that my version of the deck usually wins by turn 6 if I play correctly and everything goes as planned (aka. my creatures aren't all Wild Slashed) so Relic Seeker isn't necessary.
In my opinion, I think it's smart to leave all burn in the sideboard and try to take them down fast in game one. If you can't do that, then you're not going to beat them with speed. I then think of the burn in the sideboard as a way to transform the deck into more of a burn and ping deck. I played a game online yesterday where I burned 3 of there creatures in a row and was able to swing with my 2Expedition Envoys for over 10 damage because they couldn't keep a creature out.
I personally think that 14 artifacts are too many. The build you worked on seems more midrange to me. I would personally cut 2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar to the sideboard and cut the 2 Chitinous Cloak altogether. Did you ever animate Needle Spires? I haven't added any yet but I am curious. No one has actually mentioned animating it yet. Also, I feel Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh is a bit hard on our mana since she is not an ally. But if she preformed well, then by all means, keep her in.
Also, I felt so bad reading that you missed the flip on Kytheon, Hero of Akros. The nice thing about MTGO is that it tells you that it was triggered! Kytheon will attract the burn so if you can in fact play him and them surge a bushwhacker, then you will probably be able to keep the bushwacker. It's all about presenting the threats to deter them from realizing that all we want to do is swing. We don't actually care about flipping Kytheon. It's great if we do, and I have many time, but if we don't we still win because we just swing for lots of damage and fast.
However, we all need to remember that it is all about luck sometimes. I played six games on MTGO last night and won 5 of them. Lost to a weird W/U control deck that played pacifism and singing-bell strike and counters. It was miserable. I have been beating Eldrazi Ramp and R/G landfall post-board. You need to burn their important creatures and you can in fact survive. It feels so good to burn everything that destroyed you the first game.
I Hope this helps. Don't be discouraged. It was the trial run. It's a cheap and efficient deck that has already proven to be able to win FNM's. The misplay's in the beginning make this more difficult to play than most people think. It's not self piloted like some decks can be. Don't forget about the second ability of Ally Encampment. People online get so mad when they forget about it and burn a creature just to see if go back to my hand.
How many games have you played with this deck? I just don't understand the hive mindset of "the deck isn't tier one so why bother playing with it". Please realize that tier one decks are based on the decks the pro's play. Just know that this deck literally destroy's 4-color rally and Dark Jeskai. They aren't fast enough and they have to board in all of their kill and usually don't know how to pay against us because they don't see the deck much.
I play this deck because it's cost effective and actually competitive. This deck came in third are our Gameday. Coincidentally, the only deck that the 1st place deck lost to was this deck. I understand it's a personal preference but please be constructive. Posting in a forum to talking about how the deck will remain tier 4 because the equipment are "terrible" is not really helping.
Tutoring is great but makes for un-fun play. Please see Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. It's super fun to play against that tier one deck that only flashes back every card multiple times. It's horrible.
The real problem with equip decks is that current equips are awfull. im sure if there were decent equip there could be a competitive equip deck.
There is synergy with these equipment's with the low cost of these creatures. Anyone playing equipment's other than Bone Saw and Captain's Claws are doing it wrong in my opinion. The deck is wickedly fast and that's the goal, to be fast. Playing equipment's that are based off of the number of creature's you have is not the best way to go. We can win by having just 4 creature's.
Reckless Bushwhacker is what we are looking for. You cannot play this card unless you surge it. If you play it for it's actual casting cost you lose the majority of the power the deck offers. SOI might offer more equipment's but Bone Saw is a surge enabler. Almost anything can be played before the Reckless Bushwhacker to cast it for surge. The other creatures are there to help push the damage through. The problem is that this is an aggro deck and cannot be played as anything other than that. Trying to make this a midrange deck by adding burn to the main deck will be it's demise.
They're usually close enough to dead when worldbreaker hits for me to kill them. It occurred to me today how well positioned this deck could be post-rotation too...Especially since there are some strong hints Nahiri could be inolved and that she is RW in colour....
I haven't been impressed with stoneforge acolyte. His cohort ability has never been relevant. There is a good chance I will be replacing him and Makindi aeronaught with some wild slashes.
I think it's just preference. I just like him. I feel like he is one of those cards that is good but in special cases. If you need equipment than he might help. IF you already have the equipment than you don't need him. Really he's another 1 drop and surge enabler in my opinion. That's why I keep him. It feels real bad hardcasting Reckless Bushwhacker.
Also, the hint to a possible R/W plansewalker that may or may not deal with equipment has me super excited but we probably shouldn't talk about it.
No. Only because our opponent cannot interact with us because we don't play creatures. Their kill/board wipes are rendered useless in game 1.
I played a sideboard that consisted of the following
2 Day's Undoing
3 Clash of Wills
1 Disciple of the Ring
3 Displacement Wave
4 Negate
Day's Undoing was a lot of fun. It's like resetting the game state but you keep your lands. Sure your opponent gets to go first but if you play it late enough and have mana open, you might draw a hand of counter magic to counter everything they want to play next turn.
Displacement Wave is necessary to bounce those walkers that I had to play against. Sure they can play them again, but if it takes their entire turn to do, then I am oaky with that.
I never got to play Disciple of the Ring but if I did I would imagine that she would have been a house in this deck. Let me do all of the things for 1 mana because you get a lot of spells in the graveyard.
I did have an opponent tell me that the deck would benefit from playing a 1 or 2 Sphinx of the Final Word. It seems good to me. Plus it can block most things all day long. So if we are playing a control deck it might actually work. I think that the more mono-blue control cards we utilize the better we will do. Honestly I think that moving all of the adverse conditions to the sideboard would be good for this deck. However, I want to see if I can curve out an entire Brain in the Jar trigger. What do you think?
Turn 1: Ally Encampment, Expedition Envoy - 2 damage
Turn 2: Mountain, Weapons Trainer attack with Expedition Envoy - 3 damage
Turn 3: Battlefield Forge, Bone Saw, Kytheon, Hero of Akros, then surge Reckless Bushwhacker. Then swing with everything and flip to Gideon. - 11 damage
You will now have a PW and will have dealt 16 damage by turn 3. The next turn you win unless they board wipe. The format will be slower unless B/R vampires takes off but it has gotten so much hate at this point I don't see that happening in the first 2 weeks. After that is anyone's guess.
If you don't want to play up the Ally portion of this deck, why are you still playing Stoneforge Mastwerwork? You've got so few Ally's, some Soldiers, and a playset of a single Eldrazi. I cannot see how that card would benefit your build at all. The issue I see is that you have taken an aggro deck and slowed it down tremendously by adding minimal removal. How are you winning late game if you don't kill them by turn 4-5? Also, how are you handling board wipes with a slower build? After rotation, Languish and Kozilek's Return will be fantastic since three color decks are hardly viable going forward.
If you're looking for removal, Nahiri, The Harbinger is the way tog o. Plus, if you are playing a control deck and they aren't swinging at her we can continuously use her plus ability to filter through our deck faster. She;s much stronger for our deck than Gideon because she provides us with the removal that this deck lacks. I think she is a better choice than situational enchantments.
However, we don't know what we will see after rotation so keeping the Firemantle Mage may need to stay maindeck.
Unless I counted wrong, this deck is missing 4 cards and all of the equipment in the main board. How many equipment are you playing. Also, I think that adding a third color without fetches is a bad idea for this deck. It's viable now with fetched and fetchable duels, but in three weeks that will be gone.
Congratulations. I have had an immense amount of success with this deck. Now that a new PW card (who will remain nameless) was spoiled and may or may not search for Artifact was revealed, I would assume that we will get some new artifact's to play around with. Only time will tell.
Say I have a Kor Bladewhirl and 2 Expedition Envoy on the battlefield. If at the of my opponents turn I realize I won't be able to trigger rally next turn but I can get some damage through if I could trigger rally, I could pay 1 and sacrifice Ally Encampment to return Kor Bladewhirl to my hand so I am guaranteed a rally trigger for my Expedition Envoys the next turn.
I have also done this when I have had a card to cast in hand and a Reckless Bushwhacker on the battlefield. I sacrifice Ally Encampment to return the Reckless Bushwhacker to my hand so next turn I can cast him with surge giving any creature that I have on the battlefield more power the next turn. It's really useful on turns 5-8. It's also the best when your opponent is open and you control one creature and cast Kytheon, Hero of Akros into a surged Reckless Bushwhacker flipping Kytheon, Hero of Akros that turn.
I understand where you are coming from with some of your descriptions. I do have some advise though.
- Everyone loves Pia and Kiran Nalaar. I think this is more of a sideboard card. If you are playing a control deck it can help to even out the board. I might not cut them if you are happy with them. I have not tried them but I want to keep the cmc low to play an aggro version.
- If you don't like Deflecting Palm, try Rending Volley. It takes care of Jeskai. Roast is also great for those big ramp decks or it can be another way to burn Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. The card I have been unhappy with is Relic Seeker. I've found that my version of the deck usually wins by turn 6 if I play correctly and everything goes as planned (aka. my creatures aren't all Wild Slashed) so Relic Seeker isn't necessary.
In my opinion, I think it's smart to leave all burn in the sideboard and try to take them down fast in game one. If you can't do that, then you're not going to beat them with speed. I then think of the burn in the sideboard as a way to transform the deck into more of a burn and ping deck. I played a game online yesterday where I burned 3 of there creatures in a row and was able to swing with my 2Expedition Envoys for over 10 damage because they couldn't keep a creature out.
I personally think that 14 artifacts are too many. The build you worked on seems more midrange to me. I would personally cut 2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar to the sideboard and cut the 2 Chitinous Cloak altogether. Did you ever animate Needle Spires? I haven't added any yet but I am curious. No one has actually mentioned animating it yet. Also, I feel Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh is a bit hard on our mana since she is not an ally. But if she preformed well, then by all means, keep her in.
Also, I felt so bad reading that you missed the flip on Kytheon, Hero of Akros. The nice thing about MTGO is that it tells you that it was triggered! Kytheon will attract the burn so if you can in fact play him and them surge a bushwhacker, then you will probably be able to keep the bushwacker. It's all about presenting the threats to deter them from realizing that all we want to do is swing. We don't actually care about flipping Kytheon. It's great if we do, and I have many time, but if we don't we still win because we just swing for lots of damage and fast.
However, we all need to remember that it is all about luck sometimes. I played six games on MTGO last night and won 5 of them. Lost to a weird W/U control deck that played pacifism and singing-bell strike and counters. It was miserable. I have been beating Eldrazi Ramp and R/G landfall post-board. You need to burn their important creatures and you can in fact survive. It feels so good to burn everything that destroyed you the first game.
I Hope this helps. Don't be discouraged. It was the trial run. It's a cheap and efficient deck that has already proven to be able to win FNM's. The misplay's in the beginning make this more difficult to play than most people think. It's not self piloted like some decks can be. Don't forget about the second ability of Ally Encampment. People online get so mad when they forget about it and burn a creature just to see if go back to my hand.
Happy gaming!
I look forward to seeing your results. I haven't had a chance to build this yet.
I play this deck because it's cost effective and actually competitive. This deck came in third are our Gameday. Coincidentally, the only deck that the 1st place deck lost to was this deck. I understand it's a personal preference but please be constructive. Posting in a forum to talking about how the deck will remain tier 4 because the equipment are "terrible" is not really helping.
Tutoring is great but makes for un-fun play. Please see Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. It's super fun to play against that tier one deck that only flashes back every card multiple times. It's horrible.
There is synergy with these equipment's with the low cost of these creatures. Anyone playing equipment's other than Bone Saw and Captain's Claws are doing it wrong in my opinion. The deck is wickedly fast and that's the goal, to be fast. Playing equipment's that are based off of the number of creature's you have is not the best way to go. We can win by having just 4 creature's.
Reckless Bushwhacker is what we are looking for. You cannot play this card unless you surge it. If you play it for it's actual casting cost you lose the majority of the power the deck offers. SOI might offer more equipment's but Bone Saw is a surge enabler. Almost anything can be played before the Reckless Bushwhacker to cast it for surge. The other creatures are there to help push the damage through. The problem is that this is an aggro deck and cannot be played as anything other than that. Trying to make this a midrange deck by adding burn to the main deck will be it's demise.
I think it's just preference. I just like him. I feel like he is one of those cards that is good but in special cases. If you need equipment than he might help. IF you already have the equipment than you don't need him. Really he's another 1 drop and surge enabler in my opinion. That's why I keep him. It feels real bad hardcasting Reckless Bushwhacker.
Also, the hint to a possible R/W plansewalker that may or may not deal with equipment has me super excited but we probably shouldn't talk about it.