I never tested SGW, but isn't too risky to have always 0 cards in your hand to make it work?
Metal_GuN, I saw in these two flex slots a lot of variations. Restoration Angel, Reality Smasher, Blade splicer, Thalia, Heretic Cathar are commonly repeated in those slots. It's usually a beater slot, being THC a bonus with her tax. I'd suggest Reality Smasher because it's too damn hard to remove and its haste is usually a game changing factor...
I would probably make the flex slots hit dredge. Either Orzhov Pontiff, Thalia, Heretic Cathar or Blade Splicer. Splicer and Pontiff have the best synergy with displacer, but Thalia probably gives more tempo. Pontiff hits infect, affinity, elves and company/chord decks the hardest. Splicer hits Eldrazi, jund and control the best. Thalia hits Tron and other combo decks the hardest. I think pick whichever of the three is needed most for your metagame. In terms of dredge though Thalia is probably best for racing and pontiff is probably best for setting up a lock. Splicer plays defense the best, but you'll have to be wary of their narcomoebas when it turns into a ground stall.
Thanks, I think I'll keep 2 THC since there is tron and combo in my meta.
Also, thoughts about -1 Wasteland Strangler +1 Reality Smasher?
Personally, I am not a fan of Concealed Courtyard in the E&T version. Wescoe wrote what I have been thinking in the article above: I like Caves for the colorless, Shambling Vent for creature (sweeper-proof), and Godless Shrine for a 4th untapped land.
Also, I think 3 Shambling Vent is too many. I like having 2. I also like a 1-of Fetid-Heath.
If you look a page or two back, you will see my current list for reference.
Im waiting to get those godless shrine once I get some cash from a few FMNs
Im close to finish my WBc E&T deck, today I ordered the leonin arbiters and PtEs. Now only 3 Vial and 3 Thalia, GoT + SB is left. I've been testing it on cockatrice before buying, with 2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar, but now Im not sure if she is good enough for that 2 spots. Wall of Resurgence can be ok too, but I think still not enough. Can you help me with those 2 spots (against the overall meta)?
IMO GW with 4 GQ and 3-4 TE is the best build of D&T in modern atm. Best mana, best disruption, tons of power and versatility.
"The best D&T build" is a bit overextended. Im doing great with my E&T WBc build.
But yeah, Im playing 2 Thalia HC too and she rocks. Blocked a smasher with both Thalia, disrupting mana and creatures, and won 1 game with her just because my opponent forgot to kill her and comboed with Nahiri and searched Emrakul.
After enjoying this deck and learned to pilot it, I am saying bye to Skred Red, guys. Was a fun deck, and a deck that I will always love. Going big red with cards such as Koth, Chandra, Dragons, Batterskull, Blood Moon... was great. But I do not have the money for more that one deck (atm), so I am trading and selling my Skred deck to build another deck.
I played the deck a lot of time in a lot of matchups and games, learned how to build it and play it very well, so I will still be here at times just in case new players ask questions and all, Im sure I can help them too.
Btw, Im leaving here the build that worked the best for me among all the builds that I played.
Idk guys, Im kinda new to the deck, but I am having great results on cockatrice with the WBC E&T variant. It has everything old D&T needed (I think so): hand disruption and big guys. I do think too that this was the variant that helped the deck at reaching tier 2. Why not test more out of that variant and the ones that you know that works?
Im coming from Skred Red. Got the deck, pretty fun and strong sometimes. But the major mistake most people were making with that archetype was trying too many builds that were away from the ones that got some results. I do think that, if WBC, mono-W, and GW are having the best results, you must go further with those while not going too away. Just like decks that stays on top tiers for a long time, like jund or jeskai: they keep their bases that have results, and develops further with some adds in new sets.
Btw, how do we play against dredge? Game 1 is always lost? game 2 and 3, is our only hope to draw a hate SB card?
Lingering Souls sure is a great card, but:
-Cant be vialed.
-Has no ETB for techs.
-The same amount of mana we use to cast it both times, could be used for manland or displacer.
Idk, I think we prefer a thing like Blade Splicer for CA just because we run flickerwisp and displacer. I think lingering souls is more of a individual quality card for Junk.
Blade Splicer is interesting, yep, and another reason to stop chalice at 3.
Oh, and while I saw in the primer list that it runs 3 Strangler, I think that 4 are a must (well, those are my thoughts):
-4 PtE + 4 Srangler make 8 removal spells, which is a solid number for a creature deck while it doesnt lack of creatures.
-Flickerwisp to Strangler, Displacer, that is a great 2for1.
-Kills the cards exiled by Sculler or even Flickerwisp.
I just won a game today while my opponent had a full board. I had Flickerwisp, Strangler and Displacer on board, and enough mana (thanks to Eldrazi temples).
Every EoT, target Flickerwisp with displacer. Flickerwisp enters, target an opponent permanent. Target Sculler with Strangler. Strangler enters, kill exiled card and kill a creature.
And we can save Displacer in response to a removal by targeting flickerwisp.
That is a combo that we can do against tron and scapeshift, too, exiling their lands. Just too many uses, I think those three creatures should be 4-4-4.
Hi people,
I will probably buy the cards for this deck, and Im testing it on cockatrice. Can I ask for the oppinion of those who had most success with E&T?
Thanks
Maybe the SB is not that good, what are the worst MUs for this deck?
Also, Im not sure if 2 Smasher or 2 Resto. Angel on the main, Resto can do nice tricks and save a creature, but Smasher can end games and has so much value, plus is very hard to remove since Scullers and Seers do their job with removal.
Im going to try my build with Mind Stones instead of Magma jets.
How many removal do you think is needed in our deck? I had no issues with removal with magma jet.
Like I said, 5+ 3-mana LD spells + Crumbles can probably make that a "fair" fight. Why Stone Rains over Fulminator Mages, if I might ask? The ability to sacrifice at instant speed and to apply pressure with the body makes Fulmy one of the best LD options IMO.
I have 4 Molten Rain, 2 Stone Rain, 1 Crumble to dust in my SB, so I think I can do good against tron.
Why so many LD on SB? well, our bad matchups are ones where the opponent just wins when he/she can produce the amount of mana they need (Tron, Ad Nauseam, Scapeshift...).
Our aggro (except for big zoo, I have 1 Roast in the SB 'cause of that MU), midrange and control matchups are not bad, and I still have 3 Dragon's Claw, 2 Shattering Spree, 2 Pyrite Spellbomb in SB against burn, artifacts and prot. red.
Hey, that list is close to mine. I dont use mind stones since my curve stops at 5 with 2 Stormbreath and 1 Batterskull, I have 23 lands too and 3 Magma Jet helps to find lands; plus I will be using 4 Koth 2 Chandra, Torch of defiance, so I will have 6 ramping walkers. My new (in october) list.
Thanks, I think I'll keep 2 THC since there is tron and combo in my meta.
Also, thoughts about -1 Wasteland Strangler +1 Reality Smasher?
Im waiting to get those godless shrine once I get some cash from a few FMNs
Thanks.
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Shambling Vent
3 Concealed Courtyard
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
3 Plains
1 Swamp
Utility
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Wasteland Strangler
4 Flickerwisp
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Flex Spots
2 Rest in Peace
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Stony Silence
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Burrenton Forge Tender
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Big Game Hunter
2 Celestial Purge
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Zealous Persecution
Also, 1 Zealous 1 Kambal on SB, or maybe 2 Zealous? Kambal is not only for burn, against some combos too, but... idk.
Thanks!
"The best D&T build" is a bit overextended. Im doing great with my E&T WBc build.
But yeah, Im playing 2 Thalia HC too and she rocks. Blocked a smasher with both Thalia, disrupting mana and creatures, and won 1 game with her just because my opponent forgot to kill her and comboed with Nahiri and searched Emrakul.
I played the deck a lot of time in a lot of matchups and games, learned how to build it and play it very well, so I will still be here at times just in case new players ask questions and all, Im sure I can help them too.
Btw, Im leaving here the build that worked the best for me among all the builds that I played.
21 Snow-covered Mountain
2 Scrying Sheets
Artifacts
4 Mind Stone
4 Relic of Progenitus
Creatures
2 Eternal Scourge
4 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Batterskull
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Skred
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Blood Moon
Planeswalkers
4 Koth of the Hammer
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
3 Dragon's Claw
2 Shattering Spree
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Roast
4 Molten Rain
1 Crumble to Dust
2 Fulminator Mage
Im coming from Skred Red. Got the deck, pretty fun and strong sometimes. But the major mistake most people were making with that archetype was trying too many builds that were away from the ones that got some results. I do think that, if WBC, mono-W, and GW are having the best results, you must go further with those while not going too away. Just like decks that stays on top tiers for a long time, like jund or jeskai: they keep their bases that have results, and develops further with some adds in new sets.
Btw, how do we play against dredge? Game 1 is always lost? game 2 and 3, is our only hope to draw a hate SB card?
-Cant be vialed.
-Has no ETB for techs.
-The same amount of mana we use to cast it both times, could be used for manland or displacer.
Idk, I think we prefer a thing like Blade Splicer for CA just because we run flickerwisp and displacer. I think lingering souls is more of a individual quality card for Junk.
But, could souls be good at SB?
Oh, and while I saw in the primer list that it runs 3 Strangler, I think that 4 are a must (well, those are my thoughts):
-4 PtE + 4 Srangler make 8 removal spells, which is a solid number for a creature deck while it doesnt lack of creatures.
-Flickerwisp to Strangler, Displacer, that is a great 2for1.
-Kills the cards exiled by Sculler or even Flickerwisp.
I just won a game today while my opponent had a full board. I had Flickerwisp, Strangler and Displacer on board, and enough mana (thanks to Eldrazi temples).
Every EoT, target Flickerwisp with displacer. Flickerwisp enters, target an opponent permanent. Target Sculler with Strangler. Strangler enters, kill exiled card and kill a creature.
And we can save Displacer in response to a removal by targeting flickerwisp.
That is a combo that we can do against tron and scapeshift, too, exiling their lands. Just too many uses, I think those three creatures should be 4-4-4.
I will probably buy the cards for this deck, and Im testing it on cockatrice. Can I ask for the oppinion of those who had most success with E&T?
Thanks
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Concealed Courtyard
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Shambling Vent
3 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
Creatures
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Flickerwisp
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
2 Reality Smasher
4 Path to Exile
4 AEther Vial
2 Rest in Peace
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Anguished Unmaking
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Stony Silence
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Lingering Souls
Maybe the SB is not that good, what are the worst MUs for this deck?
Also, Im not sure if 2 Smasher or 2 Resto. Angel on the main, Resto can do nice tricks and save a creature, but Smasher can end games and has so much value, plus is very hard to remove since Scullers and Seers do their job with removal.
How many removal do you think is needed in our deck? I had no issues with removal with magma jet.
21 Snow-Covered Mountain
2 Scrying Sheets
Spells
4 Skred
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Anger of the Gods
Creatures
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Batterskull
4 Koth of the Hammer
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Utility
3 Blood Moon
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Mind Stone
3 Dragon's Claw
2 Shattering Spree
1 Roast
2 Pyrite Spellbomb
2 Stone Rain
4 Molten Rain
1 Crumble to Dust
Because wallet
Yep, too slow.
Why so many LD on SB? well, our bad matchups are ones where the opponent just wins when he/she can produce the amount of mana they need (Tron, Ad Nauseam, Scapeshift...).
Our aggro (except for big zoo, I have 1 Roast in the SB 'cause of that MU), midrange and control matchups are not bad, and I still have 3 Dragon's Claw, 2 Shattering Spree, 2 Pyrite Spellbomb in SB against burn, artifacts and prot. red.
Someone here tried it. Personally, Im totally on only red side, and we will get a new toy with Chandra.
Also, PtE + Blood Moon is... nope.
21 Snow-covered Mountain
2 Scrying Sheets
Creatures
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Stormbreath Dragon
Planeswalkers
4 Koth of the Hammer
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Relic of Progenitus
1 Batterskull
Spells
4 Skred
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Magma Jet
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Volcanic Fallout
3 Blood Moon
3 Dragon's Claw
2 Shattering Spree
1 Crumble to Dust
3 Molten Rain
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
2 Roast
2 Boil
Thoughts? I think the new Chandra will do great for our deck.