[quote from="WarMachinePrime »" url="/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/801595-full-gallery-is-up?comment=269"]
Just so we're clear, your stance is that you want cards to be cheaper. Cards are cheaper as a result of this set. In fact, every card included in the set has dropped considerably. But you are nevertheless upset, because the cards aren't cheaper enough. Then you call me crazy and that you can't debate? Well at least one of those things is true.
See, my issue is that the top end cards may be cheaper now, but in 6mo to a year, the cards will be near their pre-UMA prices. It took nearly yearly Masters reprints for Goyf to see a significant price drops
This set also feels like Wizards are throwing yet another bone to investors. People who can afford to buy up boxes and sell off the singles just to make a profit. This has come very shortly after the GRN Mythic ed. Where people bought it just to sell the pieces for a profit, and everyone outside the US was excluded from the opportunity.
It's starting to look like Wizards are solely catering to these investors, and people who want the cards to play are left to fight over the 100 copies in the wild that the investors have graciously allowed us to see. The arguement that these products 'aren't for you' is also very grating. I'm a player, and reprinted staples aren't for me? That starts to paint am ugly picture of what Wizards thinks of players.
[quote from="Dontrike »" url="/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/800876-ultimate-masters-box-topper-promos-psa-regarding?comment=673"][quote from="Narlix the Blue »" url="/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/800876-ultimate-masters-box-topper-promos-psa-regarding?comment=672"]
Look there is no such thing as a player or collector/investor/hoarder( as you put it) everyone in this game is BOTH with very few exception( you can collect without playing you can't play with out collecting ) .
I disagree with most of this. You can collect without playing, and you can't play without collecting. But. And it's a big one. There is a massive line between investors and players. One one hand, you have people who buy what they need to play (like myself), and have very little consideration for trying to make money from cards, and on the other, you have the likes of Rudy who buy up as many RL cards just to make money. That is a very, VERY, big divide. One helps the game, one actively harms it.
Where, Mr. the Blue, in your models, do people who want to play the game fit?
All but the richest of players (or those lucky enough to have bought in when prices were low) have been priced out of Legacy and Vintage. Modern deck prices are climbing higher and higher.
What happens to the player who gets into the game, and wants to play an older format. One that doesn't rotate, or one similar to what they tried when they were younger? What happens when they look into card prices and sees they can't afford a deck to play at their LGS? What happens when that player walks away because of high card prices? What happens when more players are pushed away because they can't play what they want?
Methinks a lot of Wizard employees have the day off and are posting up in this thread judging by join dates and post numbers.
These types of comments serve zero purpose and only undermine any reasonable nature of a conversation
They're the "YOU'RE FAKE NEWS" of MTGS and hurt us all when they are posted
So you seek to delegitamize my comments by calling it fake news. Let the forum-ship decide for themselves. Free thought and all. It hurts NO ONE!!!
And you're trying to delegitimise the comments of anyone who isn't joining in on your WOTC witch hunt (whether it's warranted or not) by calling everyone who disagrees with you "Wizard employees [with] the day off." And jshrwd wasn't calling what you said 'fake news'*, but saying that that's what you're doing by calling everyone a Wizards employee.
One sided arguments are pointless. I let mine stand on their own merit. I'll reiterate, Ulitmate Masters is no where near ultimate. An improvement for sure, but when the bar is set so low with Iconic Trashters and MassTurds 25, anything looks better.
Emphasis mine. You say you let your arguments stand on their own, but in the very same comment, try to shut down anyone who disagrees with you?
*The statement 'fake news' is, without a doubt, the stupidest statement to have come to the fore in recent years. (Please note, this is not a dig on those who use it, but only the statement itself.)
Hmm, I do understand that goal, but I'd think that having a deck that's extremely fragile to removal would be a pretty un-fun way to avoid blowing out your opposition.
The skill level between myself and the rest of the playgroup is quite large, so I feel building a crappy deck is a better option at this stage. I'll reevaluate if it doesn't go as planned, however.
[quote from="Onering »" url="/forums/the-game/commander-edh/801237-who-should-lead-a-sans-r-walls-deck?comment=9"]I agree with Dirk. Even if you are pulling punches while deck building, stick with Arcades. Just build him as goofy wall aggro and leave out the combos. You aren't going to run the table trying to beat face with walls, even with all that draw, but you'll at least have a consistent deck that actually does something even when you don't win, rather than just getting rolled because your key card got killed or building in so much contingency that your deck has no identity and you're just running Bant control, but with walls.
If you're going to build a deck that does dumb *****, build it so that it does that dumb ***** reliably, every game. That's how you make it fun. You want to be able to throw walls at people, then make sure you can throw walls at people starting turn 4, every game.
The problem is my decks are too reliable. I played my Ghoulcaller Gisa deck, and after every wrath, I was able to bounce back the next turn. I want to have a deck that is just janky, but not necessarily reliable.
And as for the deck, I want to have Arcades/Doran/Phenax as hidden wincons.
[quote from="Monkey222 »" url="/forums/the-game/commander-edh/801237-who-should-lead-a-sans-r-walls-deck?comment=6"]
I have done that as well, However I have 3 Izzet decks with two more in production.
So while i goal was 32 decks, i will probably have closer to 40 by the end.
Arcades was my bant deck but after a few plays i realized i hated it. Too commander dependent so i took it apart pretty much the day i built it. I think I may go with Estrid as well. Not sure.
How did you end up with 5 Izzet decks? Who did you build?
I mean, if you want to build a bad deck for fun, build a bad deck for fun. But if you want to make a wall deck work, just build arcades. Doran doesn't even add anything to the deck, he's just redundant.
I recently came to the realisation that my decks are too strong for most of my playgroup, so I started building some weaker decks so the newer players aren't always getting blown out.
And I brainstormed building one deck for each colour combo, and Estrid, the Masked takes the Bant slot.
I don't want to use Atraxa as the general. So I'm currently tossing up between two sets of partners.
First, Thrasios, Triton Hero//Ravos the Soulmender which is arguably the stronger of the two pairs, but it's more goodstuff than synergistic. Thrasios does provide draw which gets me to my Seige effects quicker.
Second, Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper//Ishai, Dragonspeaker. Ikra gives toughness synergy. And a lifegaim subtheme that I would enjoy. Ishai doesn't really add much, but can act as a wincon.
My group has a 50+ card banlist so i guess we do that all the time
i started to loathe craterhoof behemoth (even if i loved the card when it was spoiled) because it was too easy to win with it. i took it away from every deck of mine (and i had 3 token decks).
my playgroup quickly understood i was right and we housebanned it (even if only another player was using it).
right now i never play a Sword of X and Y. They feel too goodstuffy.
also, skullclamp is feelig too easy to and i'm thinking about removing it
Could you share your banlist? Just out of interest.
As per what they said in the vid, I agree that hating on tutors is stupid. A tutor is only as good as what it gets. If you're just trying to make something janky work, then why not play demonic tutor?
I disagree. Tutors represent a specific subset of your deck (or all of it) so that you can get the best thing fpr the situation. Need removal? Your wincon? Your combo piece? The tutor is all of them.
There's a reason DJ got the reaction he did when playing Vampiric tutor. It has a reputation. His opponent might not have known his deck was jank.
It's true you can get something subpar with the tutor, but if I see it, I'm going to assume you're getting something that will lead to you winning shortly thereafter.
In light of Sheldon's article and the CommandZone episode are there cards you refuse to play because they're too powerful or not fun to be on either side of?
Personally, I play very few high end tutors (or tutors in general), and I won't play MLD, Craterhoof Behemoth, or infinite combos.
See, my issue is that the top end cards may be cheaper now, but in 6mo to a year, the cards will be near their pre-UMA prices. It took nearly yearly Masters reprints for Goyf to see a significant price drops
This set also feels like Wizards are throwing yet another bone to investors. People who can afford to buy up boxes and sell off the singles just to make a profit. This has come very shortly after the GRN Mythic ed. Where people bought it just to sell the pieces for a profit, and everyone outside the US was excluded from the opportunity.
It's starting to look like Wizards are solely catering to these investors, and people who want the cards to play are left to fight over the 100 copies in the wild that the investors have graciously allowed us to see. The arguement that these products 'aren't for you' is also very grating. I'm a player, and reprinted staples aren't for me? That starts to paint am ugly picture of what Wizards thinks of players.
If you can afford the cards in the brief window while their prices are slightly lower.
I disagree with most of this. You can collect without playing, and you can't play without collecting. But. And it's a big one. There is a massive line between investors and players. One one hand, you have people who buy what they need to play (like myself), and have very little consideration for trying to make money from cards, and on the other, you have the likes of Rudy who buy up as many RL cards just to make money. That is a very, VERY, big divide. One helps the game, one actively harms it.
Where, Mr. the Blue, in your models, do people who want to play the game fit?
All but the richest of players (or those lucky enough to have bought in when prices were low) have been priced out of Legacy and Vintage. Modern deck prices are climbing higher and higher.
What happens to the player who gets into the game, and wants to play an older format. One that doesn't rotate, or one similar to what they tried when they were younger? What happens when they look into card prices and sees they can't afford a deck to play at their LGS? What happens when that player walks away because of high card prices? What happens when more players are pushed away because they can't play what they want?
I have found that this approach leads to an arms race, with each person just building faster, and harder decks. But if this works for you, go for it.
And you're trying to delegitimise the comments of anyone who isn't joining in on your WOTC witch hunt (whether it's warranted or not) by calling everyone who disagrees with you "Wizard employees [with] the day off." And jshrwd wasn't calling what you said 'fake news'*, but saying that that's what you're doing by calling everyone a Wizards employee.
Emphasis mine. You say you let your arguments stand on their own, but in the very same comment, try to shut down anyone who disagrees with you?
*The statement 'fake news' is, without a doubt, the stupidest statement to have come to the fore in recent years. (Please note, this is not a dig on those who use it, but only the statement itself.)
The problem is my decks are too reliable. I played my Ghoulcaller Gisa deck, and after every wrath, I was able to bounce back the next turn. I want to have a deck that is just janky, but not necessarily reliable.
And as for the deck, I want to have Arcades/Doran/Phenax as hidden wincons.
How did you end up with 5 Izzet decks? Who did you build?
I recently came to the realisation that my decks are too strong for most of my playgroup, so I started building some weaker decks so the newer players aren't always getting blown out.
And I brainstormed building one deck for each colour combo, and Estrid, the Masked takes the Bant slot.
I don't want to use Atraxa as the general. So I'm currently tossing up between two sets of partners.
First, Thrasios, Triton Hero//Ravos the Soulmender which is arguably the stronger of the two pairs, but it's more goodstuff than synergistic. Thrasios does provide draw which gets me to my Seige effects quicker.
Second, Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper//Ishai, Dragonspeaker. Ikra gives toughness synergy. And a lifegaim subtheme that I would enjoy. Ishai doesn't really add much, but can act as a wincon.
Which pair of partners would be better?
Could you share your banlist? Just out of interest.
I disagree. Tutors represent a specific subset of your deck (or all of it) so that you can get the best thing fpr the situation. Need removal? Your wincon? Your combo piece? The tutor is all of them.
There's a reason DJ got the reaction he did when playing Vampiric tutor. It has a reputation. His opponent might not have known his deck was jank.
It's true you can get something subpar with the tutor, but if I see it, I'm going to assume you're getting something that will lead to you winning shortly thereafter.
There's no other card I've played that immediately turns the game so one sided unless answered.
Since Expropriate, Cyclonic Rift, Azami, Lady of Scrolls, Baral, Chief of Compliance, Deadeye Navigator, Force of Will, Pact of Negation, Cryptic Command, Consecrated Sphinx all exist and aren't banned, I find this statement hard to believe.
In light of Sheldon's article and the CommandZone episode are there cards you refuse to play because they're too powerful or not fun to be on either side of?
Personally, I play very few high end tutors (or tutors in general), and I won't play MLD, Craterhoof Behemoth, or infinite combos.
You?
Awesome. Second fantastic sounding product I can't buy due to where I live in 6 months. That's awesome.