I'm in a love/hate relationship with Dark Tutelage, but the card stays because it works wonders under Spirit of the Labyrinth.
I thought hard about using Leonin (you can win with Haruspex in Blood Artist's place, too) and like the line, but IMHO it's kind of win more. It's like the Saffi + Retainers + Haruspex/Artist line, but slightly harder to tutor for because Animate Dead is not a creature. Of course if your meta is drowning in artifacts/enchantments by all means use the Cat Cleric.
I checked out the 4C Boonweaver Cobb's been brewin' and for now it does not convince me. He kinda went the goodstuff route and after giving it some thought I really can't tell why just not play the 5c Food Chain Tazri instead.
Good point on that Spirit synergy. I'll have to give Tutelage a shot then.
I'm still new to the deck obviously, but I wouldn't necessarily consider Relic-Warder as win more. In the sense of Reveillark and friends, sure its redundant, but it is another line that just meshes with the list. Leonin removes a plethora of problems like Fiend Hunter does so it is easy to abuse with a sac outlet and the deck already runs animate dead/dance and artist/haru so it just seems like a fit to me. But again, I'm still inexperienced on all the nuances of this list so I may come around to your way of thinking after I get some more games with it.
As for 4C Boon, I think blue is definitely a solid contributor to the list, particularly it adds interaction with the stack, which is the biggest flaw of the deck. Its worthy to experiment, but I'll personally stick to Junk/Abzan if the new WUBG commanders suck.
Thanks for all the info and tips btw! I'll definitely be around to ask for advice and post experiences when I get more games in.
Heyo, just recently converted my junk hatebear stax deck over to boonweaver. Been having a blast so far with it. Currently using Anafenza at the helm instead of Karador because I keep seeing that Karador rarely comes out during games and my meta runs a lot of creature/graveyard strats. Having an additional bear in the command-zone that can pressure life totals (vs Necropotence/Adnaus/greedy decks in general) and also boosts bloom tender to generate 3 mana is nice too.
@GMA I saw your list and was curious how Dark Tutelage has been treating you? Also have you tried splashing in Leonin Relic-Warder in your list? It gives you infinite death triggers for Blood Artist and also provides some decent removal.
[quote from="Massacre775 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/621075-karador-boonweaver-combo?comment=306"]
Well, that really depends on the commander, doesn't it? But in all honesty, I'm against diluting already stretched mana base with the fourth color for a few extra effects. Current shell is so tight that making cuts is hard as hell and adding another color will probably end up in making a new deck from scratch. As for the combo, Boonweaver is one of the fastest combos available to cEDH players, so adding midrange'y Palinchron + Deadeye is a no-no.
Conspiracy 2 review is up! How is everyone doing with their Sanctum Prelate? I'm completely in love with it so far.
Unfortunately, I haven't gotten my hands on a copy yet. I just ordered one, and I can't wait to play it! Any note-worthy situations you've been able to use it?
So what does everyone think of Leovold, Emissary of Trest? He is in the best colors, gives you advantage when your stuff is targeted and has a one-sided Spirit of the Labyrinth stapled on his back.
The nastiness comes when he comes out T2 then slams down a wheel T3. If he plays Teferi's Puzzle Box then the game is virtually over.
You don't really even have to build around him and just pack BUG goodstuff with wheels and he could potentially be back breaking to casual decks. And he is just begging to played with Doomsday, which a lot of BUG decks already do.
Well Action's list is already equipped to deal with these kind of commanders (mayael especially) so you shouldn't have to change much, if anything at all. If you're getting attacked more often then maybe run 1-2 more Ghostly Prison effects like Peacekeeper ect. If all of those green decks are ramping by pulling lands from their libraries instead of artifacts or dorks, you could add Leonin Arbiter in place of Ethersworn Canonist or perhaps Dosan (As it looks like there is no storm in your meta there are only 2 blue decks.)
But otherwise I think you should just play the base list and you should be fine.
I've been eyeing this deck for a while and I want to build it. The only issue is that both metas I play in are basically Battlecruiser magic with Eldrazi and the like. What hatebears do I use to combat against this?
Here is a quick budget list I threw together. Clocks in at about $200. Not sure if that is considered budget. Almost all the cards are under $6. Elesh Norn being the biggest exception. Because a lot of the best hate cards (Teeg, Linvala, Null Rod etc) are pricey and almost irreplaceable it was really difficult to fill the list. You'll also notice the list is missing 7 cards. These last slots could be used for a myriad of other budget options.
Some suggestions to fill the last few slots: Anthems maybe Overrun effects? Anything to make your hatebears and dorks a bit more deadly.
Recruiter of the Guard is a solid creature tutor, but when you're already in GB it is hard to find room for it in this list. The biggest plus sides to Recruiter is it is recurrable, and it gets around our stax effects. However almost all the tutors in the deck are generally 1-2 mana and/or instant speed. Eldritch Evolution is the odd-man-out but it is great because it puts the creature directly in play instead of the hand and, in this deck's case, can search more targets than Recruiter can.
In builds where Anafenza has a very strong and prominent recursion package I would say he is an auto-include though.
Also I'm adjusting my Anafenza list based on advice I got from some players and trying some things.
Sanctum Prelate joins the hatebear family. Call 1 - no Sol Ring/Mana Vault, Path/Swords, Pognify/Rabid, 1cmc counter spells, Vamp/Enlightened/Mystical/Wordly/Crop Rotation/Gamble. Also Storm decks will cry. Call 2 - Ramp, 2cmc tutors, most counter spells, some removal, Call 3 - no swords and various 3cmc spot removal, ramp, and much much more. Partner with Gaddock Teeg for a more oppressive lock.
Or if the opponent runs specific combo pieces they rely on, call that cmc.
Looks like a fantastic hatebear that goes too well with Mr. Teeg. I'm excited to play it.
Here is my current iteration: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/04-08-16-anafenza-edh/
I've gotten somewhere between 15-20 games in since I've completed the deck. I'll post some highlights of different games I've had along with some observations. These are not in chronological order.
Vs Meren Midrange, Mikaeus, Melek Spellslinger
Did 5 games with this pod. I won 2 (Living Plane each times) Mikaeus won 2 games (1 Mike+Trike and 1 Mike+Blood Vassal+Retribution of the Ancients+Sac) Melek won 1. With 2 Reanimation decks Anafenza was an all-star. 2 of the games I got great hands and attempted to get the Living Plane lock on turn 5, but only 1 of them stuck. The other game Living Plane was Pact of Negation’ed by the Melek and Anafenza died 3 times. I spent all my resources so quickly and couldn’t recover. The other game I won I played it steady, got out Stony Silence turn 2, followed by Spirit of the Labyrinth which slowed Meren and Melek, Anafenza stayed on board most of the game and I eventually tutored into Elesh Norn+Living Plane. Vs Meren, Karlov Lifegain, Melek
Got an opening hand with Survival of the Fittest, Phyrexian Arena, Mana Crypt and Carpet of Flowers. Decided to be gutsy and try to jam Iona out early (naming black) and it didn’t quite work out as much as I planned as she only survived 1 round then promptly path’d out of the game. Afterwards my board got dismantled via Caustic Caterpillar loops. I couldn’t recover in time and died to commander damage via Karlov. This was the 2nd Time Iona flopped on me. I need to play it safe and play the long game. Vs Azusa, Nissa Flipwalker
The Azusa player ramped like a madman into a getting Ulamog, the Ceasless Hunger on the table by turn 4. Ulamog hit me first. Lost Shaman and Living plane from the exiled 20. Ouch. I had a decent amount of mana and Eladamri's Call. Unfortunately, I was starting to learn this deck has trouble getting rid of large creatures and there was nothing I could tutor to solve this issue. Next turn he dropped Archetype of Endurance and I scooped after getting another 20 exiled. Made me seriously contemplate putting in a Fiend Hunter just to have creature removal on a creature. Vs Mikaeus, Derevi Superfriends
Got a hand with Carpet of Flowers, Bloom Tender, Tireless Tracker and Eldritch Evolution. I ramped up, tutor’d for Teeg to shut down Derevi, slapped down Anafenza for Mikaeus and had board control throughout the game. Tracker net me quite a few cards due to fetches. As the game went on both were trying to focus me down and remove my threats but I had amassed so much card advantage and had slowed them down long enough to Chord of Calling into Shaman of Forgotten Ways!
Overall observations:
-The deck feels like it’s an alternative to Captain Sisay Toolbox. Instead of guaranteed legendary tutoring every turn you have access to black tutors which make it easier to tutor Living Plane and noncreature utility pieces.
-Many games I’ve had key creatures destroyed or had no ways of playing towards a win-con. I’m contemplating on following Action_Mane and making room for my swords.
-Some games you’ll get a hand that can lead to an early Iona or a turn 5 Living Plane lock if there is no disruption. It is extremely risky to go straight to those plays. More often than not it has been better to play the long game..
-Need to replace my 2 painlands. With all the life loss in the deck its affected me more than I’d like.
-Eldritch Evolution is perfect for this deck. Mana dorks = any hatebear/removal/draw creature. Any 2cmc+ creature= Linvala.
-Carpet of Flowers is bonkers.
-New Thalia has been a great help in slowing opponents down and pressuring life totals. Quite a few players in my meta run the maximum number of fetches and it makes them pull their hair out. And the 3 power with first strike kills a lot of important EDH creatures. She is also a prime candidate for the +1/+1 counter Anafenza makes every combat.
-Going to cut Natural Order for Crop Rotation. Natural order pretty much only grabs Bane of Progress. Crop Rotation can give me instant speed Bog, ramp via Ancient Tomb or utility lands.
Action, not sure what content you want posted on your thread, but would it be alright if we posted game experiences and/or decklists to share and critique? Or would you rather I make my own thread for that?
I've been getting a lot of games in with Anafenza lately and have adjusted my list a bit since playing.
It would be really great to see this format break from the norm of traditional Commander's Combo>Midrange>Stax>Combo and have a more diverse meta where combat damage strats are actually viable.
- 2 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
- Derevi, Empyrial Tactician
- Omnath, Locus of Rage
- Alesha, Who Smiles at Death
- Isamaru, Hound of Konda
- Toshiro Umezawa
- Maelstrom Wanderer
- Feldon of the Third Path
- Keranos, God of Storms
- Animar, Soul of Elements
- Ezuri, Claw of Progress
Pretty happy seeing Toshiro and Isamaru get in there.
Very curious to see what the Toshiro and Isamaru Lists look like.
Can't wait to see the website up. This format looks really great to play. I'm already looking for alternatives for some of the legacy cards in my current commander decks.
Good point on that Spirit synergy. I'll have to give Tutelage a shot then.
I'm still new to the deck obviously, but I wouldn't necessarily consider Relic-Warder as win more. In the sense of Reveillark and friends, sure its redundant, but it is another line that just meshes with the list. Leonin removes a plethora of problems like Fiend Hunter does so it is easy to abuse with a sac outlet and the deck already runs animate dead/dance and artist/haru so it just seems like a fit to me. But again, I'm still inexperienced on all the nuances of this list so I may come around to your way of thinking after I get some more games with it.
As for 4C Boon, I think blue is definitely a solid contributor to the list, particularly it adds interaction with the stack, which is the biggest flaw of the deck. Its worthy to experiment, but I'll personally stick to Junk/Abzan if the new WUBG commanders suck.
Thanks for all the info and tips btw! I'll definitely be around to ask for advice and post experiences when I get more games in.
Here is my current list:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/04-08-16-anafenza-edh/
@GMA I saw your list and was curious how Dark Tutelage has been treating you? Also have you tried splashing in Leonin Relic-Warder in your list? It gives you infinite death triggers for Blood Artist and also provides some decent removal.
IIRC, Cobblepot is currently playing/testing 4C Boonweaver. Looks really interesting so far.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/four-color-boonweaver-combocontrol/
Unfortunately, I haven't gotten my hands on a copy yet. I just ordered one, and I can't wait to play it! Any note-worthy situations you've been able to use it?
The nastiness comes when he comes out T2 then slams down a wheel T3. If he plays Teferi's Puzzle Box then the game is virtually over.
You don't really even have to build around him and just pack BUG goodstuff with wheels and he could potentially be back breaking to casual decks. And he is just begging to played with Doomsday, which a lot of BUG decks already do.
Could he join the ranks of Braids and Rofellos?
But otherwise I think you should just play the base list and you should be fine.
Exactly what commanders are in your meta?
Here is a quick budget list I threw together. Clocks in at about $200. Not sure if that is considered budget. Almost all the cards are under $6. Elesh Norn being the biggest exception. Because a lot of the best hate cards (Teeg, Linvala, Null Rod etc) are pricey and almost irreplaceable it was really difficult to fill the list. You'll also notice the list is missing 7 cards. These last slots could be used for a myriad of other budget options.
Some suggestions to fill the last few slots: Anthems maybe Overrun effects? Anything to make your hatebears and dorks a bit more deadly.
In builds where Anafenza has a very strong and prominent recursion package I would say he is an auto-include though.
Also I'm adjusting my Anafenza list based on advice I got from some players and trying some things.
1 Athreos, God of Passage
1 Ob Nixilis, Unchackled
1 Living Death
1 Sphere of Resistance
Call 1 - no Sol Ring/Mana Vault, Path/Swords, Pognify/Rabid, 1cmc counter spells, Vamp/Enlightened/Mystical/Wordly/Crop Rotation/Gamble. Also Storm decks will cry.
Call 2 - Ramp, 2cmc tutors, most counter spells, some removal,
Call 3 - no swords and various 3cmc spot removal, ramp, and much much more. Partner with Gaddock Teeg for a more oppressive lock.
Or if the opponent runs specific combo pieces they rely on, call that cmc.
Looks like a fantastic hatebear that goes too well with Mr. Teeg. I'm excited to play it.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/04-08-16-anafenza-edh/
I've gotten somewhere between 15-20 games in since I've completed the deck. I'll post some highlights of different games I've had along with some observations. These are not in chronological order.
Vs Meren Midrange, Mikaeus, Melek Spellslinger
Did 5 games with this pod. I won 2 (Living Plane each times) Mikaeus won 2 games (1 Mike+Trike and 1 Mike+Blood Vassal+Retribution of the Ancients+Sac) Melek won 1. With 2 Reanimation decks Anafenza was an all-star. 2 of the games I got great hands and attempted to get the Living Plane lock on turn 5, but only 1 of them stuck. The other game Living Plane was Pact of Negation’ed by the Melek and Anafenza died 3 times. I spent all my resources so quickly and couldn’t recover. The other game I won I played it steady, got out Stony Silence turn 2, followed by Spirit of the Labyrinth which slowed Meren and Melek, Anafenza stayed on board most of the game and I eventually tutored into Elesh Norn+Living Plane.
Vs Meren, Karlov Lifegain, Melek
Got an opening hand with Survival of the Fittest, Phyrexian Arena, Mana Crypt and Carpet of Flowers. Decided to be gutsy and try to jam Iona out early (naming black) and it didn’t quite work out as much as I planned as she only survived 1 round then promptly path’d out of the game. Afterwards my board got dismantled via Caustic Caterpillar loops. I couldn’t recover in time and died to commander damage via Karlov. This was the 2nd Time Iona flopped on me. I need to play it safe and play the long game.
Vs Azusa, Nissa Flipwalker
The Azusa player ramped like a madman into a getting Ulamog, the Ceasless Hunger on the table by turn 4. Ulamog hit me first. Lost Shaman and Living plane from the exiled 20. Ouch. I had a decent amount of mana and Eladamri's Call. Unfortunately, I was starting to learn this deck has trouble getting rid of large creatures and there was nothing I could tutor to solve this issue. Next turn he dropped Archetype of Endurance and I scooped after getting another 20 exiled. Made me seriously contemplate putting in a Fiend Hunter just to have creature removal on a creature.
Vs Mikaeus, Derevi Superfriends
Got a hand with Carpet of Flowers, Bloom Tender, Tireless Tracker and Eldritch Evolution. I ramped up, tutor’d for Teeg to shut down Derevi, slapped down Anafenza for Mikaeus and had board control throughout the game. Tracker net me quite a few cards due to fetches. As the game went on both were trying to focus me down and remove my threats but I had amassed so much card advantage and had slowed them down long enough to Chord of Calling into Shaman of Forgotten Ways!
Overall observations:
-The deck feels like it’s an alternative to Captain Sisay Toolbox. Instead of guaranteed legendary tutoring every turn you have access to black tutors which make it easier to tutor Living Plane and noncreature utility pieces.
-Many games I’ve had key creatures destroyed or had no ways of playing towards a win-con. I’m contemplating on following Action_Mane and making room for my swords.
-Some games you’ll get a hand that can lead to an early Iona or a turn 5 Living Plane lock if there is no disruption. It is extremely risky to go straight to those plays. More often than not it has been better to play the long game..
-Need to replace my 2 painlands. With all the life loss in the deck its affected me more than I’d like.
-Eldritch Evolution is perfect for this deck. Mana dorks = any hatebear/removal/draw creature. Any 2cmc+ creature= Linvala.
-Carpet of Flowers is bonkers.
-New Thalia has been a great help in slowing opponents down and pressuring life totals. Quite a few players in my meta run the maximum number of fetches and it makes them pull their hair out. And the 3 power with first strike kills a lot of important EDH creatures. She is also a prime candidate for the +1/+1 counter Anafenza makes every combat.
-Going to cut Natural Order for Crop Rotation. Natural order pretty much only grabs Bane of Progress. Crop Rotation can give me instant speed Bog, ramp via Ancient Tomb or utility lands.
I've been getting a lot of games in with Anafenza lately and have adjusted my list a bit since playing.
It would be really great to see this format break from the norm of traditional Commander's Combo>Midrange>Stax>Combo and have a more diverse meta where combat damage strats are actually viable.
Very curious to see what the Toshiro and Isamaru Lists look like.
Can't wait to see the website up. This format looks really great to play. I'm already looking for alternatives for some of the legacy cards in my current commander decks.
Only 1 cmc each and potentially give your creatures a discount of 4.
Also have you considered running reanimation cards, entomb, and Anger to better take advantage of your creatures?