MTG Salvation

Bad card is annoying. Or annoying card is bad. One of those. I'll definitely have to think twice about someone if I see them playing this guy in literally any format.

Quote from wtwlf123 »

I didn't even expect this to get a [SCD] when I saw it spoiled.

Always expect SCDs, Mark. Especially for the bad cards.

Quote from noshadowkick »

what happens when it connects with an x/1? Does the creature survive?

State based actions--including the one that checks if a creature has been dealt lethal and sends it to the graveyard--happen before the trigger will resolve. So any x/1 the Mass deals combat damage to will die.

None of the cards spoiled today seem good enough to me. The reactions to the Red bear were amusing though. As most of us know WotC has printed cards of equal or greater quality to a 2/2 vanilla in Red before, but never an actual proper vanilla. I'd still take Mage-Ring Bully and Valley Dasher over it.

We're super off-topic and we'll probably just have to agree to disagree.

Quote from wtwlf123 »

Quote from Edward Mass »

Not printable? Mark, that's straight hyperbole.

No it isn't. Pack Rat was the biggest mistake they've printed in a long time, since the impact that it had on one of the most played and critical formats it was in was beyond warped by its very presence. It is absolutely, 100% unprintable, since limited is a critical factor when designing cards. The most format-warping limited card since Jitte.

This seems like the wrong mindset though. Maybe it should have been Mythic (for Limited purposes), but saying it shouldn't be printed? Like, you didn't even qualify that statement...

Red's gotten bears for years, but they've often had abilities (not always just drawbacks, as guys like Mage-Ring Bully show). If anything, this might be a step backward.

Quote from wtwlf123 »

Quote from Edward Mass »

I'll forgive it, but just barely.

Thank you for blessing me with your forgiveness.

You're very welcome. Believe it or not, I actually play this game.

When you include all the metrics that go into card design, Pack Rat is not a printable card. So "fixed Pack Rat" is a perfectly reasonable description of this card.

Not printable? Mark, that's straight hyperbole.

Quote from Salmo »

Pack Rat is still pretty bonkers in cube. Forcing your opponent to have exact answers for it isn't impossible for the opponent in a format with x amount of sweepers and x amount of 1-3 costed answers, but when they don't then the pack is back.

Are you guys all just discounting the fact that the ability costs 2B AND A CARD? Those tokens ain't free.

I'm a tougher judge regarding card quality (and less prone to hyperbole) than most. Substitute "Super strong" in place of "solid" if you must. My point stands. The card isn't good enough currently, and it would have been better off costing less. That's all. Not a terribly controversial opinion really.

There's a big difference between retail limited and Cube (that should really, seriously go without saying, but here we are).

I get your implication, Mark. I'll forgive it, but just barely. I know the card, very well in fact.

Pat Rack is nowhere near broken in Cube. Playable? Sure. Solid? Fine. Strong? Maybe. But given the number of answers that exist, all the better uses for 3 mana, and the overall card quality/consistency of Cube, I've generally struggled with people's (mis-)evaluation of this card. Pat Rack shines best in formats and gameplay scenarios where players have dead or mediocre cards. That's certainly applicable to retail limited and even Theros Standard, but not Cube.

Re-read my post, guys. I don't you're really disputing me (nor do I think we actually have a point of contention). Back on topic...

Regarding the 5 drop slot in Red and this guy's place in it: I think this is yet another case of personal pref and YMMW. I personally don't care for SGC or Conscripts (mostly because they don't combo with enough of my format to feel particularly exciting). So for me this guy is easily slotted in as another value dragon that passes the Vindicate/Terminate test. (I also run a decently sized and fairly unorthodox list, so there's that.) But I definitely think he should be considered, just like we all looked at Goblin Dark-Dwellers and other new red 5s as they came out. And yeah, he's way closer than people are giving him credit for IMO.

Quote from Navyat87 »

If we're talking solid 5 drops in red what about dominus of fealty. Granted it's hybrid with blue but it's still a solid card. 4/4 flier and at the start of your upkeep you can gain control of a creature they control for the turn. That paired with with something like curse of bloodletting can be a monster.

As someone who had to learn the hard way about color intensity hurting a format, I can tell you right now no one gonna run a 5 mana card with that degree of color intensity. Cards like Advent of the Wurm and Armada Wurm are routinely dismissed in these parts for similar reasons.

At 1 it's solid. At 2 it's playable. At 3? Hard pass. Too bad, too. I feel most of these Oaths would be decent if WotC would just have the balls to push them a little harder.

The only upside of this cards existence in my eyes is that it helped illuminate and solidify WotC's current policy that Red can't run Instants anymore. Looks like my burn spell suites won't be changing much in the common months/years.

I'll probably run it over Dark Realms, but it's still pretty weak. Would've prefered them pushing this a little hard and bumping the numbers rather than trying to give us their (faulty) idea of an aggressive drop.

Never been a huge fan of Spellshapers, though I do miss seeing the subtype. (WTF, WotC?) Were this a base 2/2 or 2/1 we'd be in busy. As is, it's really only playable by virtual of its tap abilities, and both of those are marginal.

Quote from steve_man »

Fixed Pack Rat?

Quote from Blue_Oneironaut »

Fixed Pack Rat seems like a fair description.

Quote from MerfolkMagic »

Fixed pack rat for sure.

These statements imply Pat Rack is broken, which it most certainly isn't. Or do you mean "fixed" in some other, less orthodox sense?

Would be playable (though still not really Mythic feeling) as a 3/3. As is? Easily a hard pass.

Quote from Salmo »

Creatures are way better, spells are much worse. It's a power creep, just not across the board.

Can we still claim that creature creep is legitimately a thing when the power level of most new bodies is equal to or worse than the Zendikar-Scars days? (I'm asking honestly.) I feel like creature creep just ramped up around the early part of this decade and then tapered off around Ravnica. Right now, power-wise, creatures are kinda running in place. There's still great new bodies, don't get me wrong; I just don't think we can legitimately call it "power creep" anymore.