Magic Market Index for Dec 28th, 2018
Magic Market Index for Dec 21st, 2018
Ultimate Masters: MMI Review
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Unreleased and New Card Discussion

    Whelp. I know what to do with that open spot in Erebos now.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on MTGS EDH Group
    So yeah, I think this is a great idea, if there's people out there who're looking for reliable members to play against, I'm happy to put my details down:
    We got a live one, ladies and gentlemen. Who's next?

    My timezone is GMT +12.00 for what it's worth - it's good to know what time people have allotted before committing to 2 hours online.
    Oh, good idea. I'll edit that into the OP.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on MTGS EDH Group
    Quote from illakunsaa »
    Why not just play cocatrice or xmage instead?
    I've played on XMage for a bit and it's just awful. The rules enforcement is spotty and the program itself is buggy and ugly. My experiences with it are largely negative. As for Cockatrice, it's basically the same beast but doesn't require a download. I suppose I could expand the group to include basically all free ways to play Magic online but I think it would be better for the group overall to focus on a single one so as to not splinter the community.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on MTGS EDH Group
    It's no secret that playing Magic online with strangers is a mixed bag. From players who quit at the drop of a hat to players with a tenuous grasp on the rules to players with toxic attitudes, it can often be more trouble than it's worth. It doesn't have to be that way, though. I'm putting together a group of MTGS users who are interested in playing with each other on

    For those unfamiliar, is a browser-based way to play Magic with other people for free. While it doesn't have rules enforcement like MTGO or Arena, I think that makes it closer to a real life game.

    If you're interested, feel free to register an account and post your username as well as your time zone in this thread so that I can put it in this post so others can friend you. I've also set up a Discord to more easily coordinate games as well as so that players can use voice chat when playing to further emulate the experience of playing a real life game. Because the Internet is terrible, PM me to get a link to the Discord.

    The only rule? Don't be a dick.

    MTGS EDH Group Members

    GloriousGoose - gloriousgoose (-6.00 GMT)
    toctheyounger77 - toctheyounger77 (+12.00 GMT)
    Markodatlas - Markodatlas
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on What SCG Con Taught Sheldon About Commander And Its Players
    Quote from ISBPathfinder »
    I still stand by that communication is your friend. Talk to people before making assumptions.
    I don't want to have a conversation about what is or isn't acceptable in a given group of veritable strangers. I want to play Magic. I want a banlist that promotes balanced play so that gaps in power level aren't as large so that enjoyment is more homogeneous. The EDH banlist is currently at 38 cards; Vintage has 46 restricted cards. I'm not saying that we should ban all powerful cards because they're part of the charm of EDH and Eternal formats in general but there are certain cards that are format warping. I think fast mana, cheap combo enablers, efficient lock pieces, and disproportionately powerful card draw do more harm to the format than good. The question, then, is where do you draw the line? If, say, Sol Ring is too good, what about Mana Vault? Grim Monolith? Worn Powerstone? I'm not denying that it's a difficult discussion with lots of complex, controversial decisions, but I think it will ultimately make the format healthier in the long run. Competitive EDH players will adapt to a new meta and still enjoy the game. Casual EDH players will have to worry less about being pubstomped by some jerk and enjoy the game. Of course, none of this will happen anytime soon, and I don't think that banning 30+ cards in one fell swoop is a good idea, but a slow, winding down of power in the format would solve a lot of issues, I think.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on What SCG Con Taught Sheldon About Commander And Its Players
    Quote from Buffsam89 »
    So, to clarify your stance, you find it perfectly acceptable to sit down at an unknown table and bust out a grief-y deck? No warning? No conversation prior? That is your go-to?
    What... what..? what.

    I'm interested in how you think the text supports this conclusion, considering I've been advocating for common grief cards and strategies to be banned so that such communications don't have to happen.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on What SCG Con Taught Sheldon About Commander And Its Players
    Quote from paragonweapon »
    So, here are my thoughts on Sheldon's article:
    I regret that I have but one reputation to give you.

    Quote from MRHblue »
    No its playing what most people generally want to do. Groups can of course do their own thing, but you just packing this sort of thing into an LGS is specifically anti-social.
    You don't think applying social pressure to cause people to not play certain decks is anti-social? It's a two-way street, and the tyranny of the majority can be just as oppressive as a stax deck. Your opinions and feelings are not more important than someone else's just because they happen to be popular.

    Quote from Onering »
    I also run more casual staxy decks that don't get hated, because the key is building them where you worry less about the stax and more about creating a winning gamestate. This let's them be a bit less powerful, and I don't lock down the board without being able to win. Instead, I'm more likely to be able to take advantage of a lock without the lock manifesting. One is tribal vampires and the other is Mogis group slug. in both, the stax exists to slow down my opponents while I kill them, rather than to lock them down so I can kill them.
    I pretty much agree with your entire post, but I quoted this excerpt because it is exactly what my primary deck does. It's not about locking opponents out of the game, it's about slowing the game down so that I can win because of my deck's superior inevitability. I play stax-y cards like Oppression, Tainted Aether, and Torpor Orb, but rather than lock someone out of the game they simply make it harder for them to advance their strategy. Okay, I run Infernal Darkness as well, and it's caused a few greedy non-black ramp decks to scoop, but maybe they shouldn't expect to resolve Boundless Realms unhindered. I treat Darkness as a pseudo-Time Walk that lasts for 3-4 turns, not a lock piece. Does this make my deck a stax deck?

    EDIT: I'm at 400 posts. toot
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on What SCG Con Taught Sheldon About Commander And Its Players
    I have issues with the argument you, and others, have made here. It's based on the idea that the strategies are allowed within the rules and that the game is inherently competitive. Both of these arguments are not relevant as the issue is a social one. To the greater community the game is not inherently competitive. No one, whether it be Wizards, the Rules committee, or the average players, would call EDH "competitive." You may view it that way, and you have every right to do so, but the greater community does not.
    1) the activity or condition of competing.
    2) an event or contest in which people compete.

    Magic, as designed, is a competitive game. EDH, as designed, is a social game. Those two aspects conflict but are not mutually exclusive. I can't put it any simpler.

    Same goes for the "stax" is part of the game argument, it is known to be looked upon by the majority with distaste. Evidence for this can be seen in modern card design, relative popularity on EDHRec of MLD and Stax pieces, and anecdotal evidence from the community at-large. Once again, you may hold this belief that Stax is reasonable and should be fine, and you have every right to believe that. However, you are at odds with the majority of players with-in the community in that respect.
    Quote from GloriousGoose »
    Personally, I dislike playing against stax because it hoses my primary deck pretty hard and due to stax being a rarity around my parts I'm not equipped to deal with it.
    I don't play stax, though I guess some people would argue that mono-black control is just as bad. Where do people draw the line between control strategies and stax strategies?

    The argument here is a social one. Is it socially acceptable to ambush people with strategies that are known to be widely disliked? That seems to be antagonistic to sociable practices of the greater EDH community, and that's literally the definition of "anti-social." In my view, people who want to play these less popular strategies owe a simple warning to the people they intend to play with. Not providing any warning, given how common knowledge the distaste for the strategies is, seems to just be disrespectful of those at the table.

    That is just my opinion. Be social, friendly, and courteous to others. The game is more fun when everyone is on the same page.
    I don't disagree and haven't argued otherwise. Why did you quote me, again?

    If you don't like their recommended banlist, don't use it, or make your own.
    This is completely impossible to do for a player without a set playgroup, though. It's the ideal solution, of course, but for pick up games at the local shop it just ain't happening. It's my opinion that the banlist should be used to police those games so that there is no need for communicating that you might be playing an anti-social deck. The situations that many people complain about, like the guy who Armageddons then scoops, the stax guy, the t3 combo guy, are all symptoms of a permissive banlist. If those strategies are the exception rather than the rule, then banning the cards that enable those strategies so that individual playgroups can green light them is a more effective course of action than passive-aggressively judging the player and discouraging those strategies via social pressure.

    Pick up games need to be more regulated than private games because the expectations are more open-ended in pick up games. If you have a set group that meets every week, then great, make your own banlist. But for a significant percentage of the EDH playing population that's not an option and creating an environment in which those players have a more homogeneous experience from shop to shop is more important than some cold, dead philosophy.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Random Card of the Day: Jareth, Leonine Titan
    Quote from Legend »

    Or Democratic Mage.

    Democratic Mage (Common)
    Creature - Demon Wizard
    When you announce this spell, each other player activates a mana ability of each permanent they control. Then they lose all unspent mana and that mana is spent to cast this spell.
    Democratic Mage enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it for each type of mana spent to cast it.
    When Democratic Mage enters the batttlefield, each Vintage, Legacy, and Modern player chooses one -
    • Give Pauper players your most valuable Magic card.
    • Go to jail.

    literally demonizing people you disagree with


    Quote from JWK »
    Next one would be Trump Mage. It allows you to to make a 0/2 wall for 26 mana, and you can't win the game if you have Trump Mage in play.
    You'd have to cheat it into play.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on What SCG Con Taught Sheldon About Commander And Its Players
    Quote from Buffsam89 »
    ... contradicting the very nature of what a FFA Multi-player game should be.

    What nature is that? Why should it be that way? Aren't you attempting to force your viewpoint on others with such an attitude?

    After all of that, what really bothered me the most was your final line. That’s a pretty pessimistic view point. I have played thousands of games with people that have never felt as though I was playing against them. Just sayin’, but, I wouldn’t neccisairly judge somebody based on the contents of their favored EDH deck, however, I would judge them if I heard them mutter a line like that before taking a seat.

    I mean, it's objectively true. A competitive game with a clearly defined goal and a format that emphasizes mutual enjoyment are strange bedfellows. They're inherently at odds with one another, which leads to all kinds of feelbads. This is exacerbated by an unnecessarily permissive banlist that accommodates playstyles that the RC pooh-poohs. Contrasted with Dungeons and Dragons, a collaborative storytelling game, it's easy to see the distinction.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on What SCG Con Taught Sheldon About Commander And Its Players
    ...[ramp] is the one of the most basic mechanics for the best color in the format.

    Ramp is not a basic blue mechanic.

    Quote from Buffsam89 »
    Dude, you haven’t “denied” me anything. You are answering threats. That’s the way the game works. Stax, on the other hand, proactively answers threats by keeping them nice and non-threatening in your hand, on the bottom of your deck, in your GY etc. That’s denial. I’m not asking you to let me slam my 10/10 into your life points. I’m just asking that you give me the opprotunity to do so. Draw-pass isn’t exactly my idea of a “good time”. Punch-counter punch? Now that’s entertaining.

    Ah, yes, the illusion of free will. You strike again.

    This paragraph betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of the subtle nuances of high level Magic play. To use a simple, obvious example, let's say you've cast Craw Wurm with no other nonland permanents in play or cards in hand. In this situation, there is no functional difference between a counterspell and a removal spell, so the distinction between denied and answered is semantic at best. Of course, things get more complicated in a real game, with on cast triggers, enter the battlefield effects, supporting permanents in play, and so on, but the fundamental differences between proactive denial and reactive removal are functionally nonexistent. Honestly, it sounds like you're salty about primarily disruptive strategies and for some reason don't think those are "punch-counterpunch" approaches. They are, of course. Interactive spells are the definition of "punch-counterpunch" and control decks run them in spades.

    I'm not disagreeing with the argument that proactive denial creates more feelbads than removal since the illusion that you were going to do something with a given card is strong. Personally, I dislike playing against stax because it hoses my primary deck pretty hard and due to stax being a rarity around my parts I'm not equipped to deal with it. But that doesn't mean I think people who play such strategies are bad people. It's two-thousand-goddamned-nineteen and we're still arguing about badwrongfun. This all goes back to arrogantAxolotl's observation that as a mod of Magic, EDH will always fail to live up to both the RC's and player's expectations. The idea that a competitive game is something you play with people and not against them is pretty contradictory, right?
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Random Card of the Day: Jareth, Leonine Titan
    goes to find Vedalken Shackles and doesn't afraid of anything
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on What SCG Con Taught Sheldon About Commander And Its Players
    Quote from Shadow345 »
    I don't understand how a banned list exists in a casual format.

    How can anything go if some things can't go?
    Magic isn't Calvinball.

    Quote from Hawk7915 »
    Lil' Timmy: I think it's fun to play Magic! I like to play cards! If I can just play my cards, I am happy!

    STAX the Destroyer: I think it's fun to deny you the thing you find fun. I can only have fun by ensuring you cannot play any cards. At all.
    Your inference that the stax player is deliberately playing to ruin the enjoyment of others says more about you and your psychological makeup than what deck someone is playing.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [[Official]] The Top 50 List (Open Forum for Bringing it Back)
    Quote from cryogen »
    Whether or not this thread is largely obsolete, it is OUR list on OUR site. We aren't going to just tell people to vote elsewhere.
    Keep your shirt on. No need for caps.

    I mean... you already link to offsite resources. I was just thinking out loud that the time investment into such an undertaking would have diminishing returns in a world where a more robust option exists. But yeah, it's not my site, so feel free to do whatever.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on [[Official]] The Top 50 List (Open Forum for Bringing it Back)
    Actually, I was thinking that in the light of EDHREC being a thing now, this thread has been obsoleted. I assume the fundamental purpose of this thread was to list various 'goodstuff' cards that are worthy considerations for decks that can run them, like Demonic Tutor. Now that EDHREC provides that same function as well as providing aggregate lists, this thread seems superfluous. I could be wrong in my assumption, though.

    And no, I don't think EDHREC has usurped the need for scoeri's excellent deck database. Looking at a specific, tuned list with possible commentary is very different than an aggregate of cards commonly run with a given commander.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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