Can we go again through why don't we want 3-4 fetchlands in there? Sure we can't fetch basic swamp, but that shouldn't be a concern most of the times. And fetching an island is a definite T4 untapped land which allows for more consistent cryptics. Finally it provides some thinning which is much needed in a deck that can easily flood, especially since we are running 0 card draw currently.
I have tried to get to the totals of 22 blue sources for Cryptic and 14 untapped black sources for Thoughtseize. These numbers are recommended in the article by Frank Karsten posted earlier. In an effort to get there I cut the basic swamps for Watery Grave. I also had to cut a Tar Pit and the Tectonic Edges.
This numbers out to exactly 15 turn1 black sources, and 22 blue sources while playing 26 lands, 6 of which have some utility to protect from flooding out.
What do you think of cutting Swamp?
We surrender the possibility of having black under Blood Moon and we give up the ability to fetch Swamp after being hit by Path to Exile. But i feel these cases are rather marginal.
You could cut 2 River of Tears, since I think everyone by now agrees that it's a bit iffy to run a full playset, and for for a basic swamp and 1x Sunken Ruins which will filter the loss of blue and keep you up on 22 blues but will cut you down on 14 turn 1 black sources, which is not a big deal, 14 are good enough. Other than that I am quite willing to give Tec edges more chances and on that list I would cut 2 Islands or an Island and a Watery Grave for 2 Tec edges.
i would also like to add that we should be taking into account Boggles in the new meta game. With lower jund/junk players, meaning less liliana this deck will be back. Top 4 on the GPT I played yesterday consisted of 2 Boggles
So I went to a GPT today and got the utterly unimpressive result of 2-3. Won Melira-pod and a burn deck and lost to BW tokens (due to gaming 2 and 3 never managed to go past my 2nd or 3rd land drop), Zoo which is a terrible MU especially if they T2 Cavern of souls into Voice, its more or less an autoloss and lost to Jund due to pilot errors and mulligan.
Overall however I was quite happy with the deck. The fact that I hadn't played it for so many years impacted my plays and doesn't mean the deck is not T1 material. I was maindecking dismember but I think I will switch it for Agony wrap as it seems to be way better especially against Zoo. Also I have a very good proposition: everyone should run Chalice of the Void in SB. Chalice for 1 against Zoo and burn which are going to fill the meta is simply incredible.
I am way to tired of the argument, that one would run Electrolyze for the mirror. You may gain some value but you are WASTING slots against Zoo and nearly every other deck though. I can't even see how you plan to effectively resolve an Electrolyze in the mirror, unless you have two and even then it seems like you wasted two turns to kill 2 creatures. Cant even imagine how big the blowout will be if you Electrolyze into a Scion of Oona.
Magma Spray/Pillar might be great against Pod but I guess praying that no Voice resolves is better in most cases. Can't see how you want to play Rakdos Charm for any mode other than "exile target GY", because the "creatures deal damage to their controller" seems bad.
I get what you say for electrolyze but a possible 2 for 1 +draw is always good value.
I am not really fond of just praying, I prefer to be prepared for any short of threats, especially the popular ones.
The creatures deal damage to their controller is a cute way to win against kiki jiki/splinter twin combos and of course how can you just not state the destroy target artifact? It is super relevant.
For now I'm stickingt o UB because of that and the fact other than bolt I see no point in red.
Fair, WB sword looks at least better than loxodon, maybe it's what I should be trying. I don't own one though.
Loxodon smitter is a pain...It's also un-thread's-able. I'm not fond of packing too much point removal either, so it's damnation or no :\
Sasky I have to say I believe firmly your experience with CC has been missinterpreted or something because you're talking of one of the most powerful blue cards. Alpha strikes with with id appear, even more if you run snappies. The point it's so important in this deck is the fact we use all the modes in a lot of situations, it's one of our main ways to change roles during a game.
I hate to be repetitive but red offers you: electrolyze for mirror, magma spray/pillar of flame and rakdos charm (save 5-6 spots in the SB) as sideboard cards. All these cards improve some MU immensely.
People discuss red splash but I think don't give it enough credits here. I am probably going to run grixis Fae on an upcoming GPT and there are other reasons besides lightning bolt main board. You can run sideboard firespoutfirespout which is a very good one way wrath (although I generally prefer damnation), Electrolyze which is great against mirror and Lingering Souls (which will cause problems most likely), Magma Spray or Pillar of Flame which are both highly relevant because voice is still a thing and most importantly Rakdos Charm. I've been playing Grixis control before the freedom of BB and I just can't stress enough how key Rakdos charm is. It saves a ton of space in SB and it is super versatile. GY hate, affinity hate and splinter twin hate (yeah let him have a ton of pestermites. Just by playin 2-3 SB you save 5-6 cards space.
Hey guys, I ve been constantly reading all the feedback since BB got unbanned. It took me some time to get over my excitement but since I am playing on a modern GPT on Sunday I'd like some feedback on my current list. I decided that I want to go with the grixis Fae since a lot of people will definitely go for a lot of UB fae hate.
You know what's even more demoralizing than nicol bolas after a cruel ultimatum? Another Cruel Ultimatum
Jumping in the bandwagon here, more demoralizing is a cruel ultimatum into a snapcaster cruel ultimatum with the snapcaster you just picked from your gy
I was searching for cards to help us against larger control decks (like Tron) and I came across Venser, Shaper Savant. I think he can be of good value as a counterspell or purely to shift the favor of the board and he comes with a body. His mana cost is decent for our curve. What do you think?
So I have about 3 weeks to prepare for a GPT and here is the list I would run tomorrow (but since the GPT is not tomorrow everything is a subject to change):
Should I run a 3rd damnation mainboard or is it too excessive? And if so should I remove the hero's downfall for it?
Should I run a 4rth cryptic command? I have found that 3 is a good number due to the high casting cost.
Is Jace worth it or it should be replace by a winning condition or another card draw?
Should I run a 2nd reflecting pool mainboard?
And considering sideboard I have a lot of stuff that I am not sure about. Like, thoughtseizes and spellskites should be in there? Maybe instead of the relics run more rakdos charm?
Well I hope you are not overwhelmed by questions I am trying to bring more things in the discussion
Cruel ultimatum gains life, it handles the board state very well too.
Instant speed eot lightning bolt with snapcaster beats in a format where everyone starts at 14-16 life
Electrolyze points are worthwhile too, and they result in card draw.
Yeah but there is a reason why this deck is not tier 1 yet. Although imho it can definitely be and it needs to see more play, there a few things that keep people from actually playing it and preferring UWR control over it.
And that something is not, in my opinion, the lack of 2nd fetchlands on our colors. It is an extra good winning condition OR some form of removal/lifegain. Everything else is superb in grixis control.
We have plenty options for card draw, we don't need a walker either. We have burn, snapcaster beats and cruel ultimatum.and tarpit
Burn is not a real winner for us since se only run only a playset of burn. Snapcaster beats is unreliable. Yes lands are excellent (both manlands) and ultimatum ofcourse but putting in there a lifegaining planeswalker, or a token creating planeswalker, generally something to handle the board could raise this deck to the top
My mana base right now is:
4x Secluded Glen
3x Scalding Tarn
2x Watery Grave
2x Darkslick Shores
4x Mutavault
3x Island
2x Swamp
2x Creeping Tar Pit
1x River of Tears
1x Sunken Ruins
2x Tectonic Edge
You could cut 2 River of Tears, since I think everyone by now agrees that it's a bit iffy to run a full playset, and for for a basic swamp and 1x Sunken Ruins which will filter the loss of blue and keep you up on 22 blues but will cut you down on 14 turn 1 black sources, which is not a big deal, 14 are good enough. Other than that I am quite willing to give Tec edges more chances and on that list I would cut 2 Islands or an Island and a Watery Grave for 2 Tec edges.
Overall however I was quite happy with the deck. The fact that I hadn't played it for so many years impacted my plays and doesn't mean the deck is not T1 material. I was maindecking dismember but I think I will switch it for Agony wrap as it seems to be way better especially against Zoo. Also I have a very good proposition: everyone should run Chalice of the Void in SB. Chalice for 1 against Zoo and burn which are going to fill the meta is simply incredible.
I am not really fond of just praying, I prefer to be prepared for any short of threats, especially the popular ones.
The creatures deal damage to their controller is a cute way to win against kiki jiki/splinter twin combos and of course how can you just not state the destroy target artifact? It is super relevant.
I hate to be repetitive but red offers you: electrolyze for mirror, magma spray/pillar of flame and rakdos charm (save 5-6 spots in the SB) as sideboard cards. All these cards improve some MU immensely.
3 Mistbind Clique
2 Scion of Oona
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spellstutter Sprite
3 Vendilio Clique
4 Bitterblossom
2 Cryptic Command
1 Go for the Throat
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
1 Smother
2 Spell Snare
2 Thoughtseize
2 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
4 Mutavault
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Secluded Glen
2 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
2 Damnation
2 Deathmark
1 Dismember
2 Electrolyze
1 Magma Spare
2 Rakdos Charm
1 Shadow of Doubt
2 Sower of Temptation
2 Spellskite
Please provide me with some suggestions. I am currently running 24 lands but I think I will need 1-2 more
Jumping in the bandwagon here, more demoralizing is a cruel ultimatum into a snapcaster cruel ultimatum with the snapcaster you just picked from your gy
Unfortunately I dont have marsh flats, I have 2 Misty rainforest but I dont know if I should run em
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Cruel Ultimatum
3 Cryptic Command
2 Damnation
1 Hero's Downfall
3 Electrolyze
2 Inquisition of Kozliek
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
1 Shadow of Doubt
2 Spell Snare
3 Think Twice
1 Blackleave Cliffs
1 Darkslick Shores
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Lavaclaw Reaches
2 Blood Crypt
2 Steam Vents
2 Water Grave
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Dreadship Reef
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Reflecting Pool
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Island
2 Swamp
2 Combust
2 Counterflux
1 Magma Spray
1 Pyroclasm
1 Rakdos Charm
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Spellhear Chimera
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Vandalblast
Some stuff that I am thinking:
Should I run a 3rd damnation mainboard or is it too excessive? And if so should I remove the hero's downfall for it?
Should I run a 4rth cryptic command? I have found that 3 is a good number due to the high casting cost.
Is Jace worth it or it should be replace by a winning condition or another card draw?
Should I run a 2nd reflecting pool mainboard?
And considering sideboard I have a lot of stuff that I am not sure about. Like, thoughtseizes and spellskites should be in there? Maybe instead of the relics run more rakdos charm?
Well I hope you are not overwhelmed by questions
Yeah but there is a reason why this deck is not tier 1 yet. Although imho it can definitely be and it needs to see more play, there a few things that keep people from actually playing it and preferring UWR control over it.
And that something is not, in my opinion, the lack of 2nd fetchlands on our colors. It is an extra good winning condition OR some form of removal/lifegain. Everything else is superb in grixis control.
Burn is not a real winner for us since se only run only a playset of burn. Snapcaster beats is unreliable. Yes lands are excellent (both manlands) and ultimatum ofcourse but putting in there a lifegaining planeswalker, or a token creating planeswalker, generally something to handle the board could raise this deck to the top