There's almost no reason to print karakas in duel decks that cost 20 bucks guys...
It's banned in EDH. Stop talking about it.
Now as for Sun Titan in the deck, I was talking with my homies and I was debating with them whether they'd reprint the whole cycle of titans in Theros, or just reprint Sun Titan, which would be hella funny if they really only did Sun Titan. I mean, it's not like there's a great Primeval combo in this format that's coming up anyways, so it should be fine to get primeval back.
i mean, its not a combo but mazes end could be a card :/
I know Huntmaster is not really good but I honestly don't know what to put in for it. :/ I didn't want to put him in the "abusable" part but I felt he stood in there a bit.
I can understand not using Dominus as well especially since his effect is not immediate. Similarly I can see Beguiler mainly for he 1/1 body....
I don't have JtMS (its sooooo good in here) but I guess Tooth is one of those cards too... although it does revolve around what is in your deck as is 9 cost but I guess still.
And I can see the clones being good, just feels underwhelming to me at this point.
Why is Body Double better then the others?
I guess I can understand Tyrant too - seemed solid outside its effect so didn't think much of it.
I didn't understand Vesner "counters" spells so he will most likely be an add in.
I don't really understand the point of clones. Prog is good but he copies each turn... the reason I play him.
How relevant is the card from grave getters? I don't even encounter situations where I would want to grab stuff from the grave while playtesting so its kind of a ****ty testing environment for me.
I never thought of Ked in that light so he's prob a possibility.
Fabricate was something I had been testing along with Tezz but I guess I can understand why not to play it yet play him. I'm still not sure on him though.
Bribery: I plan on making this deck good yet not a "friend loser" so I kind of don't expect my opponents to be playing those kinds of cards as well. Obviously if I find this a false impression I will alter accordingly.
I also want to put a price limit of not over $10 for pretty much every card. A few, like Kiki and the shocks I can still get because its ****ing Kiki... works too well... but otherwise I don't really want to just buy a lot of the cards. I will obviously try to trade for stuff but... :/
I mean, I know its amazing... I did not mean for it to come off as horrible in my eyes BUT after time after time of just solitairing by myself I can't really find how much of an impact cards have on the game... is Kiki/Deadeye to kill 2+ lands a turn/steal 2+ creatures a turn/etc. something reasonable to expect to happen or is that just me playing without facing any threats? Stuff like that and overall it just puts a dim light on Pod since idk what my opponents are doing when I use it since its never the same time. I know it is amazing and I know I will never cut it but it just does not seem worth it enough to play Tezz/Fabricate just to, mainly, fetch this. I mean, if anything I am playing Artisan just for this when for Primus and Maelstrom but yeah... I am fiending for some games... For some real testing.
I didn't make that statement just on the card itself... kinda just unsure of a lot of things and part of the unrelated gathered onto this card.
Have you tried Food Chain? Seems even better in this deck since you got a lot of little guys.
Also, Primval Bounty is pretty cool and Strionic Resonator hit a lot of your guys AND Maelstrom Wanderer. Garruk, Caller of Beasts could work as a draw engine but he is pricey and his second ability isn't as useful for you... and neither the ultimate either (altho thats not the reason to play it) since thinger spell thing plays it for you.
I play MW, and you NEED the ramp. Hell, you're playing green in EDH, you need to be able to ramp. The general costs us 8 mana the first time around, and so do a lot of the creatures in your deck. Ramping allows you to play your general much quicker than should be allowed (with the nut hand, I can play MW on turn 4 with the deck while setting everyone back a turn).
Well, if you cascade into Plasm Capture, the following turn you can play MW for only 2 mana. It's Plasm Capture should be viewed as a counterspell, it should be viewed as a ramp spell
None of those cards are ramp spells. Dream Halls can backfire spectacularly on you, Amulat and Elvish Piper cost too much, Tooth and Nail NEEDS a ramp card. Birthing Pod is an awesome card. Your essentially paying 2 mana for a 1 mana cmc increase in your creatures. It's not a ramp spell, it just allows you to do dumb things.
I decided to take out Defense of the Heart as it seems like too good of a card especially since Forbidden Orchard is a card. lol That into Gitaxias and Vorinclex on turn 5 seems pretty good... although this is multiplayer and people will probably have answers by then but if they don't... they lose. lol I might put it in if I feel it will fit the competitiveness of this deck but otherwise its out for now.
I meant the quotes to imply psuedo-ramping, aka cheating into play, although Dream Halls can be very good with getting Omniscience out but otherwise I can understand. Birthing Pod is kinda getting lackluster to me. :/
I have been solitairing this deck for the past few days non-stop and I feel I am almost to a comfortable alpha version of the deck. I've updated the OP with a tentative list and a list of a bunch of cards I have in mind, bunched into either just plain good or specific options.
Yeah, I browsed over some cards so not everything is available to me since I passed them over... nor do I know all of the good cards in the format (haven't looked into it at all...) although I know there is a fact here. I get really consumed with the whole combo deck aspect and the Misthollow + Food Chain + Wanderer was a little bit too broken for me not to get into... although the deck did not end up strong (although I don't believe its the one up there) if it did get the combo off, etc. although weakish otherwise.
Sylvan Library is def in here now... but I need to take a look at everything again.
Yeah, not playing 8+ seems a good choice but at the same time I kind of want to play the Myojin's since they seems really good and work best with the monster dropping... but at the same time.
Yeah, I know of claim and Ranger's and the 3rd one I forget what its called. They are currently in but still seem kind of awkward.
I kinda wanted to stay away from mana ramp too much since its kinda meh in my mind, is good but if you hit it (which I know everyone has on their mind when playing this deck) its not too good and you can get past it by playing controlled top decking (Scroll Rack, Brainstorm, Dream Cache, etc.) and at the same time those are pretty bad to get into and if your playing Ramp + Stacking then how much of your deck is left for actually good cards? I don't know and I should make a list including the two which I will do right now.
And I kinda feel the same way about the tapped lands too.
Also, addressing the second statement again; when I first had ideas for the deck I thought of only playing things I'd want to play into but not anything I would not, meaning no ramp and no small monsters but I did have the idea for putting in Morph monsters 8+ mainly to be bait and blocks and stuff (like I said, I know nothing of the format) although this is seemingly a bad idea as I see it now do to inconsistencies of getting 8 lands by turn and stuff.. which means ramp cards are prob needed. Akroma is a good card though but... idk.
I'll also prob play Yavimaya Elder.
Also, how do you feel about playing Plasm Capture as my only counter spell (besides Gel Elandra Archmage/Daring Apprentice)? It can ramp hard for me but if I don't have the mana... blegh. Also, if I cascade into it... blegh. BUT at the same time it can ramp hard, as I said, and is the only counterspell in my deck so the chances of Cascading into it at pretty small.
Also, I am playing a lot of "ramp" cards like Defense of the Heart, Amulet, Birthing Pot, Dream Halls, Piper, and Tooth and Nail to get the bigs out... although maybe this is not a good tactic?
Why am I making/playing this commander? I am because it was the first commander that inspired me. I have been testing, looking at options, and such since about a month ago and its still going on.
What makes this general good? Cascade happens regardless if countered, 3 hits = gg, gives everything I have haste, easy mana cost (only 1 of each color) and is worth it for its mana cost. Also, it has a very vague deck idea so you can build it an numerous amount of ways.
Also, if you want me to explain my reasoning for any of the above cards being playable, I will give you a response.
Lastly, combos and such:
Eternal Witness + bounce card/kiki/deadeye + extra turn card = infinite turns (can alternatively be done with Skullclamp + Genesis)
Dream Halls + Food Chain = go through a large amount of your deck with Wanderer (can use leftover Food Chain mana when you run out of cards in your hand)
Been hand testing this for a little while today and it seems very consistant. Getting a turn 3/4 Primordial/Wurm is not hard and if you do go turn 3 Primordial with Garruk... you have the setup for hardcasting another Primordial next turn. :| Craterhoof is also really good with Garruk since you don't have to tap the dorks to bring him out, etc.
I'm kinda stuck on the other 4 spots though. They could be either Thragtusk, Wolfir Silverheart, Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, or Primeval Bounty. I was using Wolfir since it seems a lot more aggressive then Thrag and 8T is a pretty big blocker but on the other hand I feel its lacking. Ruric could be the spot but his burn could backfire on me... maybe? Primeval Bounty seems really good, especially with all the dorks, but at the same time it seems kinda overkill, in a sense.
I guess you could alternatively play the Garruk, Primal Hunter as well, especially with the new Walker rule making it so he could be abused hard. +1 on turn 3, -3 on turn 4, draw 3 and drop Caller, drop a guy.
Also, Huntmaster of the Fells is high up there as well, especially since he works well with Cratehoof and Garruk (for the drop a guy from my hand thing). Also, is a good body BUT I would drop him turn 4 regardless of how good my ramp is so that makes me kinda want to think of about him. On the other hand, ramp is not always equal so he could be good on those times I don't get the fine/good/perfect ramp. idk
I think I just convinced myself to play Primal Hunter though. lol
Deck is fun.
i mean, its not a combo but mazes end could be a card :/
I know Huntmaster is not really good but I honestly don't know what to put in for it. :/ I didn't want to put him in the "abusable" part but I felt he stood in there a bit.
I can understand not using Dominus as well especially since his effect is not immediate. Similarly I can see Beguiler mainly for he 1/1 body....
I don't have JtMS (its sooooo good in here) but I guess Tooth is one of those cards too... although it does revolve around what is in your deck as is 9 cost but I guess still.
And I can see the clones being good, just feels underwhelming to me at this point.
Why is Body Double better then the others?
I guess I can understand Tyrant too - seemed solid outside its effect so didn't think much of it.
I didn't understand Vesner "counters" spells so he will most likely be an add in.
I don't really understand the point of clones. Prog is good but he copies each turn... the reason I play him.
How relevant is the card from grave getters? I don't even encounter situations where I would want to grab stuff from the grave while playtesting so its kind of a ****ty testing environment for me.
I never thought of Ked in that light so he's prob a possibility.
Fabricate was something I had been testing along with Tezz but I guess I can understand why not to play it yet play him. I'm still not sure on him though.
Bribery: I plan on making this deck good yet not a "friend loser" so I kind of don't expect my opponents to be playing those kinds of cards as well. Obviously if I find this a false impression I will alter accordingly.
I also want to put a price limit of not over $10 for pretty much every card. A few, like Kiki and the shocks I can still get because its ****ing Kiki... works too well... but otherwise I don't really want to just buy a lot of the cards. I will obviously try to trade for stuff but... :/
I didn't make that statement just on the card itself... kinda just unsure of a lot of things and part of the unrelated gathered onto this card.
Also, Primval Bounty is pretty cool and Strionic Resonator hit a lot of your guys AND Maelstrom Wanderer. Garruk, Caller of Beasts could work as a draw engine but he is pricey and his second ability isn't as useful for you... and neither the ultimate either (altho thats not the reason to play it) since thinger spell thing plays it for you.
What about Species Gorger as a bouncer guy?
I decided to take out Defense of the Heart as it seems like too good of a card especially since Forbidden Orchard is a card. lol That into Gitaxias and Vorinclex on turn 5 seems pretty good... although this is multiplayer and people will probably have answers by then but if they don't... they lose. lol I might put it in if I feel it will fit the competitiveness of this deck but otherwise its out for now.
I meant the quotes to imply psuedo-ramping, aka cheating into play, although Dream Halls can be very good with getting Omniscience out but otherwise I can understand. Birthing Pod is kinda getting lackluster to me. :/
I have been solitairing this deck for the past few days non-stop and I feel I am almost to a comfortable alpha version of the deck. I've updated the OP with a tentative list and a list of a bunch of cards I have in mind, bunched into either just plain good or specific options.
Sylvan Library is def in here now... but I need to take a look at everything again.
Yeah, not playing 8+ seems a good choice but at the same time I kind of want to play the Myojin's since they seems really good and work best with the monster dropping... but at the same time.
Yeah, I know of claim and Ranger's and the 3rd one I forget what its called. They are currently in but still seem kind of awkward.
I kinda wanted to stay away from mana ramp too much since its kinda meh in my mind, is good but if you hit it (which I know everyone has on their mind when playing this deck) its not too good and you can get past it by playing controlled top decking (Scroll Rack, Brainstorm, Dream Cache, etc.) and at the same time those are pretty bad to get into and if your playing Ramp + Stacking then how much of your deck is left for actually good cards? I don't know and I should make a list including the two which I will do right now.
And I kinda feel the same way about the tapped lands too.
Also, addressing the second statement again; when I first had ideas for the deck I thought of only playing things I'd want to play into but not anything I would not, meaning no ramp and no small monsters but I did have the idea for putting in Morph monsters 8+ mainly to be bait and blocks and stuff (like I said, I know nothing of the format) although this is seemingly a bad idea as I see it now do to inconsistencies of getting 8 lands by turn and stuff.. which means ramp cards are prob needed. Akroma is a good card though but... idk.
I'll also prob play Yavimaya Elder.
Also, how do you feel about playing Plasm Capture as my only counter spell (besides Gel Elandra Archmage/Daring Apprentice)? It can ramp hard for me but if I don't have the mana... blegh. Also, if I cascade into it... blegh. BUT at the same time it can ramp hard, as I said, and is the only counterspell in my deck so the chances of Cascading into it at pretty small.
Also, I am playing a lot of "ramp" cards like Defense of the Heart, Amulet, Birthing Pot, Dream Halls, Piper, and Tooth and Nail to get the bigs out... although maybe this is not a good tactic?
What makes this general good? Cascade happens regardless if countered, 3 hits = gg, gives everything I have haste, easy mana cost (only 1 of each color) and is worth it for its mana cost. Also, it has a very vague deck idea so you can build it an numerous amount of ways.
8 Maelstrom Wanderer
Ramp: 13
1 Mana Vault
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Orcish Lumberjack
2 Magus of the Library
3 Somberwald Sage
3 Farhaven Elf
3 Basalt Monolith
3 Chromatic Lantern
3 Food Chain
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Plasm Capture
5 Gilded Lotus
5 Dream Halls
Creatures: 23
2 Coiling Oracle
3 Daring Apprentice
3 Eternal Witness
4 Glen Elandra Archmage
4 Flametongue Kavu
4 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Misthollow Griffin
5 Mindclaw Shaman
5 Acidic Slime
5 Ixidron
5 Genesis
5 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
6 Aethersnipe
6 Steel Hellkite
6 Prime Speaker Zegana
6 Progenitor Mimic
6 Inferno Titan
6 Frost Titan
6 Brutalizer Exarch
6 Deadeye Navigator
7 Sphinx of Uthuun
7 Sylvan Primordial
8 Kederekt Leviathan
1 Pongify
1 Rapid Hybridization
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Hull Breach
3 Beast Within
3 Chaos warp
Mass Removal: 6
2 Pyroclasm
3 Slagstorm
4 Chain Reaction
5 Devastation Tide
5 Evacuation
9 Blasphemous Act
Sorceries/Instants: 6
4 Rite of Replication
6 Walk the Aeons
6 Recurring Insight
7 Temporal Mastery
7 Boundless Realms
7 Blatant Thievery
Artifacts: 5
1 Skullclamp
2 Strionic Resonator
3 Crystal Shard
4 Birthing Pod
4 Blood Clock
2 Ancestral Knowledge
5 Sunken Hope
Planeswalkers: 1
5 Tezzeret the Seeker
Lands: 37
0 Dryad Arbor
36 Lands
Before I get any further, I do have a budget so some cards will not be played because of that BUT would be in the above deck if not for their price:
Sol Ring
Grim Monolith
Sylvan Library
Earthcraft
Shardless Agent
Defense of the Heart
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage (will prob get after rotation)
Time Warp
Consecrated Sphinx
Tooth and Nail
Also, no mass destroy everything because I don't want to lose friends...
Also, these are "deck lists" of card ideas for the deck:
Ramp:
http://www.mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/ViewDeck/771534
Creatures:
1: http://www.mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/ViewDeck/769181
2: http://www.mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/ViewDeck/769609
Artifacts:
http://www.mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/ViewDeck/769610
Enchantments:
http://www.mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/ViewDeck/769611
Sorceries:
http://www.mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/ViewDeck/769612
Instants:
http://www.mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/ViewDeck/769613
X-Cost:
Bonfire of the Damned
Green Sun's Zenith
Chord of Calling
Genesis Wave
Planeswalkers:
http://www.mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/ViewDeck/769186
Also, if you want me to explain my reasoning for any of the above cards being playable, I will give you a response.
Lastly, combos and such:
Eternal Witness + bounce card/kiki/deadeye + extra turn card = infinite turns (can alternatively be done with Skullclamp + Genesis)
Dream Halls + Food Chain = go through a large amount of your deck with Wanderer (can use leftover Food Chain mana when you run out of cards in your hand)
Misthollow + Food Chain = infinite Maelstrom casts
Opinions and suggestions welcome!
Well, one Elemental is from Pyromancer and the other is from that card that you can flip a coin to add it to hand.
Unless your talking about some other token.
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Evlish Mystic
4 Farseek
4 Sylvan Primordial
2 Worldspire Wurm
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
24 Lands
Been hand testing this for a little while today and it seems very consistant. Getting a turn 3/4 Primordial/Wurm is not hard and if you do go turn 3 Primordial with Garruk... you have the setup for hardcasting another Primordial next turn. :| Craterhoof is also really good with Garruk since you don't have to tap the dorks to bring him out, etc.
I'm kinda stuck on the other 4 spots though. They could be either Thragtusk, Wolfir Silverheart, Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, or Primeval Bounty. I was using Wolfir since it seems a lot more aggressive then Thrag and 8T is a pretty big blocker but on the other hand I feel its lacking. Ruric could be the spot but his burn could backfire on me... maybe? Primeval Bounty seems really good, especially with all the dorks, but at the same time it seems kinda overkill, in a sense.
I guess you could alternatively play the Garruk, Primal Hunter as well, especially with the new Walker rule making it so he could be abused hard. +1 on turn 3, -3 on turn 4, draw 3 and drop Caller, drop a guy.
Also, Huntmaster of the Fells is high up there as well, especially since he works well with Cratehoof and Garruk (for the drop a guy from my hand thing). Also, is a good body BUT I would drop him turn 4 regardless of how good my ramp is so that makes me kinda want to think of about him. On the other hand, ramp is not always equal so he could be good on those times I don't get the fine/good/perfect ramp. idk
I think I just convinced myself to play Primal Hunter though. lol
Deck is fun.