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  • posted a message on Dual land question....
    Personally, I think Wizards started thinking about modern when they created legacy. I think they were thinking that they might eventually make a non-rotating format that only went back to a certain point in order to be less expensive and less powerful. In 2005, when shocks came out, they already had fetch for dual lands which was super broken. They wanted an alternative with a higher cost for a potential later format so they needed some fetchable dual land. In addition, when Onslaught entered extended at the time, dual lands left. When they made ravnica, I think they were looking ahead to Modern, but also had extended at the time and wanted 3/4 color decks more viable in extended.

    So, to answer your specific question, they didn't take shocks and decide to give them basic land types because they were dual-colored lands (meaning they could do the same with other lands), they wanted a set of dual-colored lands with basic land types for fetches, so they printed shocks.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [[Official]] G/W/x Hexproof Auras (formerly Bant Enchant)
    I have tested it and performs second behind the Naya list. The Naya list explosiveness is due to the fact that Madcap Skills practically reads "Target Creature is Unblockable" in plenty of cases. Also, Boros Charm + Ghor-Clan = gg on an enchanted creature...it doesn't matter what they have when a hexproof 10/7 first strike, trample, double strike is coming at them (Gladecover + Madcap + Ethereal + Ghor-Clan + Boros Charm).

    Also, the Azorius version of that deck essentially does not care about spells. Most spells are not going to do something against this deck due to hexproof, and anything that is a permanent other than creature can be d-sphere'd. The weakness of the Azorius deck is pure power. There are only two enchantments in the deck that actually grant damage, so you want to neutralize your opponents on-field threats. The deck, weirdly enough, plays quite control-like. If you have an Ascended Lawmage in hand as your only hexproof, you better have have d-sphere/essence scatter or your opponents 2/3 drop is going to destroy you before you can get there. If you have gladecover, your ideal play is aqueous + ethereal -> D-sphere or Essence Scatter -> Unflinching Courage. A serious card that threatens this deck due to its slow nature is Stormbreath Dragon, so you seriously want to counter that card no matter what.

    Again though, from my testing, Naya >>> Bant > Selesnya >>> Junk
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on [[Official]] G/W/x Hexproof Auras (formerly Bant Enchant)
    I stupidly did not know this forum existed, but in the post in established decks I posted a bant, naya, junk, and straight selesnya version of this deck. I don't think you can talk about "not exemplifying G/W/x auras" plan for any color without discussing that the plan for each color combo is different. First off, the decklist that you posted, is FAR less focused on hexproof creatures than the Naya list at the SCG Open: Atlanta. Hero of Iroas will get removed against almost all the top tier decks and is an awful target for auras compared to hexproof creatures for that reason. He requires alpha authority to be good, which is a 2 of. Eidolon of Countless battles is SUCH a trap in this deck. Again, if you are focusing on hexproof, and you bestow eidolong onto a tricked out hexproof creature, if they deal with that creature then you are left with a 1/1 or maybe a 2/2. It essentially amounts to a +4/+4 or +5/+5 at best for 4 mana, which isn't all that impressive. Would you rather have +1/+1, flying, and lifelink for 3 mana or +4/+4 for 4 mana? Would you rather have +4/+4 for 4 mana or exiling removal of a creature for 1 mana to let your guy swing in? That deck he ran to get 2nd was creature heavy, whereas the naya from SCG Open was much more in the theme of modern hexproof, i.e. you draw one of your hexproof creatures, trick it out, and go to town. In the most recent version, you have more legitimate chances at turn 4 wins. In fact, I would wager on the play, if you go turn 1 gladecover -> turn 2 madcap and they don't have a turn 1 play, you WILL win by turn 4.

    Things wrong with the list you posted: Eidolon trap, Hero of Iroas, Boon Satyr in a 20 land deck, alpha authority...
    Things missing with the deck list you posted: Ghor-Clan, ANY removal whatsoever...

    If you don't think you need removal in this deck, then you will be flat out destroyed by any creature deck. They can block you for days and destroy you on swingback, and this includes G/W aggro.

    Now, IMO on the colors, this is how I view them...

    Junk: This deck has card advantage via Underworld Connections and even creature search with Grisly Salvage. Best sideboard with Thoughseize + removal
    Naya: Fastest deck BY FAR. Madcap Skills + Ghor-clan Rampager + Boros Charm + cheapest removal (1CMC) in Chained to the Rocks
    Bant: Slower, but also most stables. Can run Ascended Lawmage to bring hexproof count to 4, and since we aren't afraid of normal spells all that much, Essence Scatter equates to removal
    Selesnya: Fleecemane Lion actually sees play here, and can use Trollhide due to less enchantment options to provides SERIOUS creature stability.

    I see it as Junk = card advantage, Naya = Speed, Bant = Controlly Consistency, and Selesnya = Creature dependent but effective.

    I think if Journey to Nix gives us one more Ethereal Armor or Unflinching Courage level enchantment and one more hexproof creature at 3 or less mana, this deck will be top tier, and maybe the best deck.

    Which reminds me, it is speculation, but Daybreak Coronet has not seen a reprint yet. That card comes out in Journey to Nix and this deck is bonkers as just Selesnya, but may get run as bant just for Ascended Lawmage if they don't add a hexproof creature.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Selesnya Hexproof Deck [Post BNG]


    Fleecemane Lion: Semi-weak in a deck with only 22 lands, but landing fleecemane as worst gives you at blocker and most of the time will give you options. Also of note, against slower decks, fleecemane wacks pretty hard early on. The other reason he wants to be played is because this deck before he is added has 18 3CMC cards, 8 2CMC cards, and 8 1CMC cards. Having an extra 2 drop doesn't hurt.
    Gift or Orzhova: With fewer options to choose from for enchantments, this card starts to look real nice. Lifelink, evasion, and +1/+1 for 3 mana is not bad at all.
    Selesnya Charm: Removal of the bigs and pump is not bad. 4 of because fewer cards to choose from because this card isn't particularly strong in this deck.
    Ajani, Caller of the Pride: His -3 straight up ends games. More than that, even, his +1 sets up for his -3 to be even sweeter, especially when you are running...
    Trollhide: If you are running hexproof auras, I think 16 enchantments is the way to go. In other colors, we had 4 of those enchantments being used for utility while they still pump ethereal armor. In G/W, we lack a great option in that respect. We also lack the card draw of black from connections and salvage, the explosiveness of red with madcap/boros charm/ghor-clan, and the filter (aqueous form) and control (essence scatter/D-sphere) of blue. That being said, we are running the most creatures in the G/W variety but is it most important for those creatures to be powerful and have the ability to keep us in the game with lifelink for which we have 8 enchantments. Since it is so essential for our creatures to stick and avoid board wipes, double blocks killing them, etc. that is why we turn our scouts and witchstalkers into mini-fleecemanes and actually run the fleecemanes. With a trollhide on a scout/witchstalker with lifelink played with 5 mana down, that creature will survive board wipes. If we don't have the extra mana, we just have to survive one turn. From that point on, putting tokens on that creature with Ajani becomes EXTREMELY valuable, and as soon as we are ready, his -3 ends the game if he is still there.

    Considerations:
    Rootborn Defense: If we aren't running trollhide, this keeps our creatures up.
    Spear of Heliod: Pumps our creatures, but also helps a ton with races. Once we have lifelink up on our creatures, we swing and gain life, they swing and have us lose it back but then they lose their creature.
    Heliod, God of the Sun: This card looks like he could be absolutely SICK in this deck. I wanted to sort of keep to a formula, but he really belongs in the deck. Worst case scenario, he never gets turned on and all he does is give you hexproof, lifelink'd, first strike'd creatures while providing endless waves of dudes with extra mana. Best case scenario, he also turns on with just an Ajani and Gift of Orzhova. The more and more I think about it, the sicker he becomes in this deck, even at 4 mana. Vigilance is just so strong on our creatures. If I were to add him, it would probably be as a 2 of, and I would drop 4 trollhide's and add 2 lands as well so it was more likely fleecemane would go monstrous and since heliod is already indestructible.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Selesnya Hexproof Deck [Post BNG]


    This is probably my sketchiest deck idea. Black without Thoughtseize and removal? Preposterous...
    It should be noted I also think Jund is the WORST route by far for this deck.

    Gift of Orzhova: Seems better than aqueous form, worse than madcap. This card is a sideboard card in the other 2 decks most likely, but being black white and having not much better makes it mainboard in this deck.
    Orzhov Charm: Can save your massive creature from removal (amazing against control verdict) and can bring back your gladecover. Also serves as the only real removal in this deck. While I've never really loved this charm, this is the one spot for it if that spot exists.
    Underworld Connections: Buffs ethereal armor and draws cards. Amazing card.
    Selesnya Charm: 2 of because orzhov charm also serves as instant speed removal and, basically, I wanted 4 of the next card...
    Grisly Salvage: To me, this is the only reason to actually consider going black. This is the card that lets you keep enchantment heavy hands that don't have a creature. This decks biggest problem regardless of color you choose will be, to me, inconsistency. Grisly salvage helps with that.

    Considerations:
    Thoughtseize, Ultimate Price, Doom Blade, Abrupt Decay, Hero's Downfall, and Devour Flesh all for obvious reasons. The card in there that most screams PLAY ME is Thoughtseize, but I think the strength of this deck is when it curves out, it can't be beat (just like GW auras) against most decks, thats why I like Thoughtseize in the side...

    Also, Blood Baron of Vizkopa. I really, really think he might be good in this deck. Now, while that may seem HIGHLY counterintuitive since this is an aura deck and he literally can't be enchanted by a single one of our auras, that wouldn't be the role he would serve. We would already have a hexproof creature with auras on it. That is just 1 creature that can't block when it swings. Blood Baron serves as a great blocker that is still hexproof to pretty much all removal in the format and can gain that extra life that is so necessary. Again, against esper control as well, it is very possible with the lifelink auras that you will have gotten to 30+ and they are under 10. If they verdict and you don't have orzhov charm, you can drop blood baron who blanks most removal and will now end the game the next turn.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Selesnya Hexproof Deck [Post BNG]


    Adding red was easy because a Naya aura deck just went 7th at Star City Open: Atlanta. The changes I made from that deck was just -1 Ghor-Clan +1 Boros Charm and -1 Forest +1 Mountain (chained to the rocks consistency).

    Ghor-clan Rampager: This card lets you get 4 damage in 90% of the time. The reason I cut one in favor of an extra boros charm is that if your opponent just board wiped, you can only play a very vulnerable creature with ghor-clan. Most opponenets won't walk into a ghor-clan once they see what type of deck you are playing, so unless you are threatening lethal, this card amounts to 4 to the face every single time, which is still awesome.
    Madcap Skills: Arguably the best enchantment in this deck in many games. Turn 1 Gladecover -> Turn 2 Madcap spells is death for most opponents. Gives evasion in most cases amd +3 power for only 2 mana. If you follow this up on turn 3 with unflinching courage and your opponent isn't running board wipes, they should probably just concede.
    Chained to the Rocks: Removal for creatures that pumps ethereal armor. If only stormbreath didn't have pro-white...
    Selesnya Charm: Gets rid of huge dudes, provides that extra boost and combat trick, and provides instant speed blockers in all out races.
    Boros Charm: An absolute HOUSE in this deck. When compared to Ghor-clan, they both deal 4 to the face. Difference is, Boros Charm can still do it the turn after a board wipe for control matchups where you ALMOST got there but not quite. O yeah, this card also saves you from those board wipes. Finally, when combined with madcap skills on a witchstalker or a gladecover with ANYTHING else, the double strike option will generally do more than 4 damage.

    Major Considerations:
    Gift of Orzhova: Against creature heavy matchups, this is a solid side in for madcap since its value goes down.
    Domri Rade: Seems EXTREMELY counter-intuitive with such a low creature count. However, low mana cost and can lead to big swings with his -2. Also, since this version of the deck lacks scry entirely, Domri at least lets you see your next card if you aren't fighting to potentially plan your strategy around that. Weak consideration, but consideration nonetheless.

    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Selesnya Hexproof Deck [Post BNG]


    Ascended Lawmage: Provides an extra hexproof creature. While seemingly overcosted, we are not really concerned with the toughness of our creatures since they will be getting pumped, so this is 4 mana for 3 power that can fly compared to 3 mana for 3 power that gets tokens when certain spells are cast on your turn.
    Aqueous Form: Gives our ground creatures that much needed evasion. Also, while an early play on gladecover may seem loose, attacking with that gladecover will allow you to scry to the more needed cards.
    Detention Sphere: The main reason to run blue. Detention sphere removes most threats you wouldn't be able to deal with, most likely deals with pack rat in mono black, and as a bonus adds to ethereal amor.
    Essence Scatter: With 2 extra hexproof creatures (lawmage) and not the level of pump that you would see in other colors, this deck is mainly afraid of big creatures on the other side. Essence Scatter acts as semi-removal.
    Selesnya Charm: Most likely going to be in every version of this deck, just didn't quite put it in the core because the number varies. In this deck, it deals with creatures 5 power of greater most of the time for pesky gods that have been activated or just something bigger than your gladecover with etheral + unflinching.
    Jace, Architect of Thought: Could probably get more of this guy as he slows down opposing monsters, especially if they are trying to race so hard that they don't attack Jace. He also lets us dig through our deck for the auras we need.
    Lands: I felt 6 scry was correct, but it might be 8 since this deck runs 3 essence scatter and 4 D-Sphere + Jace. 4 4 mana card is all so 22 seemed right.

    Major considerations:
    Aside from Jace as a 4 of for the 75, 1 more essence scatter, and some negates in the side, I think the major consideration is Gift of Orzhova. This deck wouldn't mind extra lifelink at all since it doesn't pack the same level of punch as other decks. Also, Azorius Charm should be considered for similar reasons, not to mention any deck running its colors should always have a good reason not to play it. Simic Charm seems to be a little worse than me, but the +3/+3 could come in handy. Kiora, the Crashing Wave is also a valid consideration, although I feel her abilities may be lackluster in this deck compared to Jace.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Selesnya Hexproof Deck [Post BNG]
    Here is how I view this decks core as far as the absolutely necessary cards:



    From there, the route you go with the deck can vary greatly. I'm going to propose what I think are a few different options each with its own post.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on Sideboard options: UW control vs Selesnya aggro
    I'm really confused...who said last breath is an awesome card versus selesnya. While it does hit voice which turn off your counterspells, you have to use it on YOUR turn meaning you won't be countering anyways. Only other card it generally hits in their deck is Soldier of the Pantheon. Truth is, from playing both, I don't think there is really a way to sideboard to give you an edge in post-sideboard games. Maybe you can take game 1, but after sideboard Selesnya just decimates UW control. Mistcutter Hydra + Rootborn Defenses + Revoke Existence/Glare of Heresy + Last Breath.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on is standard worth playing at this point?
    I think the argument that devotion is a back mechanic is silly. Lots of the top tier decks play devotion and it makes cards that wouldn't normally be played worthwhile. I don't see, AT ALL, how that is a bad thing. That means you can either play the good stuff, or synergize for devotion. It gives standard a combo-engine deck instead of a flat combo-1-turn-win deck which is far less fun to play against. Not diverse? We have control decks, devotion (combo decks), midrange decks (Jund/Naya/Orzhov), and Aggro (Boros/Selesnya).

    As far as fun to play, Green/Red/Black devotion are a BLAST to play from my experience. Mono blue is the most boring deck I have ever played. 3 out of the 4 being fun is not bad.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on GW Aggro/midrange
    Btw, my decklist that went 5-0 then won top 8 at gamesday



    I would be tempted to go to 4 God's Willing actually...anytime I had that card in my hand I was happy. I would probably cut the fourth Fleecemane Lion for it. I feel like 2 Banisher Priest was the most I would ever want in a balanced deck, and that they should be mainboard.

    I didn't take a detailed report, but I'll do the best I can from memory...

    Round 1 Rakdos Aggro (2-0)
    Game 1: Soldier did an amazing job of blanking his threat, and was also able to swing through a good chunk of the time once I got more defenders out. Ended the game with Wurm + Ajani
    Game 2: We both landed threats relatively early and traded quite a bit. Turn 7 I used advent + rootborn and it was all over from there.

    Round 2 GW Aurus (2-0)
    Game 1: He went all in on his Witchstalker with 2 Unflinching Courage and I flashed in a boon satyr onto a monstrous fleecemane -> gg
    Game 2: Revoke Existence + Glare of Heresy ftw. His deck without the right aura's + rootborn defenses led to blowout blocks for me. Ending up landing a finishing blow of Wurm + Ajani

    Round 3 Azorius midrange/control (2-0)
    I don't really think his deck was optimal, as he was practically control but still ran soldier + ascended lawmage. Can't really remember the matchups but they weren't that close.

    Round 4 GW mirror (2-1)
    Game 1: I had no lands on 7, 6, and 5...enough said...
    Game 2: I was at 5 life and he was at 8. I had one wurm token out and 2 cards in hand and he had an empty hand, but a monstrous fleecemane lion with unflinching courage. He attacks, I block with the token and rootborn defenses. Next turn I drop Ajani and swing ftw.
    Game 3: He actually had Gift of Orzhova in his side, and he got behind quick but enchanted a smiter. The blowout play was when I selesnya charm'd his enchanted smiter.

    Round 5 Mono-Blue (2-1)
    Ironically, I had lent my friend this deck for the tourney and we were both 4-0.
    Game 1: Turn 1 Cloudfin -> Turn 2 Tidebinder on Experiment one -> Turn 3 Thassa -> Turn 4 Master...enough said...
    Game 2: I selesnya charm'd a Thassa, Last breath'd a master, and banisher priest'd a cloudfin that was a 3/4...and still almost lost.
    Game 3: He had 5 life, an active Jace, a Thassa, 2 Frostburn Weirds, a 2/3 Cloudfin, a Bident, a Master and 11 tokens...I have mistcutter in hand with 7 mana up. I love mistcutter...

    Top 8 Round 1 GW mirror (2-0)
    Complete blowout since he mull'd to 5 both games. Same guy I played round 4

    Top 8 Semi's Mono-red devotion (2-1)
    I honestly can't remember much about this match for some reason except that I landed voice in every game and God's Willing was a blowout...

    Top 8 Final Esper Control (2-1)
    Game 1: Jeez...this was a beating, but it is partially my fault. I kept a hand with Brimaz, Banishper Priest, 2 advents, Experiment one and two forests on the play. I don't hit my white source until turn 4. I still do pretty well, but his Far//Away returning my voice token and making me sacrifice my Brimaz was brutal. Follow that up with him playing a Blood Baron meaning I can't attack with Advent and just have to wait until he draws removal. Lesson learned...don't keep no white hands, especially with Brimaz in hand.
    Game 2: This was the good game. I have plenty of threats and so I don't overextend. He keeps a hand with plenty of removal and 2 lands. Despite him Thoughtseizing away a couple of threats and removing 2 more, he misses one land drop. He is down to 3 life with 3 lands and I have Experiment One with 2 counters and Fleecemane out. He has to verdict, which he has in hand. He THINKS he only has to draw an untapped land. He draws a shockland and smiles. He plays it untapped and verdicts. I smile as I remove 2 counters. GG. In fact the only live draws were Mutavault
    Game 3: He gets stuck on 2 land. He thinks that would have mattered. It wouldn't have. I turn 1 experiment one, turn 2 experiment one -> Soldier of the Pantheon -> turn 3 Voice with God's Willing up -> Turn 4 have rootborn defenses in hand and another god's willing. He had absolutely no chance whatsoever in that game.

    Overall, I am glad I didn't face mono black despite what some have said. I think Esper control is one of our hard matchups. We completely roflstomp azorius control, but our deck is significantly weaker to a combination of verdict + spot removal (Far//Away is just brutal) + Thoughtseize. Yes, it helps that they shock themselves, but they have a much better chance of stabilizing than Azorius control.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on GW Aggro/midrange
    Just won my store's gamesday of 40+ people with G/W aggro...

    MVP's: Soldier of the Pantheon, Voice of Resurgence (suprise, suprise), and Ajani, Caller of the Pride
    LVP's: Fleecemane Lion and Boon Satyr

    Soldier did MASSIVE amounts of work and voice is voice...Ajani still is just a straight up wincon most of the time. He also makes your experiment one's pretty bonkers.

    Fleecemane Lion did pretty much nothing for me, even if it had monstrous. The card just boils down to a 2 mana 3/3 95% of the time, and when you can monstrous him, you would rather be playing advent with God's Willing up most of the time. Boon Satyr was hands down my most sided out card. It isn't that he can't be good, I just haven't seen much good out of him lately.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on GW Aggro/midrange
    I've played this deck since the get go, and I wonder if you are playing against the best mono black players. Good mono black players don't play aggressively into our flash plays and don't waste removal on crap creatures. I'm not saying the matchup is terrible, but it is by far one of our weakest. And I'm curious as to what sideboard you run against mono black, because glare/mistcutter/rootborn/last breath/revoke existence/skylasher do basically nothing against them. Unflinching courage isn't bad, but that just means we get 2 for 1'd most of the time.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on GW Aggro/midrange
    One other thing...I don't get people acting like bile blight is the end all be all...

    Most of the time again mono black they could remove whichever creature I played with any of their other spells. The only time I see it being at ALL relevant is with 2 soldiers or 2 experiment one's which is pretty darn rare. On top of that, with brimaz in our deck now, if they don't have bile blight in their opening hand, your experiment one has an even better chance of getting to 4/4. Yet, soldier dies, but his versatility in other matchups, namely control, still makes him more than worth it.
    Posted in: Standard Archives
  • posted a message on GW Aggro/midrange
    I know this may sound absolutely crazy, but with mono blue fading out quite a bit, is Banisher Priest really all that good?

    Bad against UW(B) control...most of the time will hit absolutely nothing...
    Bad against mono black...all it can really do is hit a pat rack token with all the removal they run...
    Bad against mono red...they will just burn it and get there creature back, or hit you with many more...
    Bad against gruul...again, they have 12 cards mainboard that kill this card (Polukranos, Domri, Mizzium Mortars)...

    I think the only thing we need to care about with this deck anymore is "how do I beat mono black?" We have a great control matchup, a solid'ish? gruul matchup when we hit charm, a fine mono-red matchup post sideboard, but a horribad mono black matchup...

    Blue: Detention sphere for rat
    Black: Thoughtseize if you are gutsy, removal otherwise...

    And the one I think deserves some recognition...
    RED! Naya gives us access to:
    -Burn for removal/face damage
    -Domri for potential card draw and fight
    -Chained to the Rocks for more great removal
    -Boros charm = cheaper than rootborn, can go to the face, and can still give double strike like Ajani, but no flying

    The one card I have to give black credit for, that could be an ABSOLUTE blowout against mono black, is Ready//Willing. In close games, being able to swing all out on turn 6 either prompting blocks that end the game, or a swing back that ends the game is pretty freaking sweet...
    Posted in: Standard Archives
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