I didn't fully understand this sentiment until I opened my box. One of my first rares was Malfegor. After looking it up, turns out it's a worthless rare from Conflux I'd never heard of. I found myself thinking "I wish I had opened a Shivan Dragon in this $10 pack," which is kind of indicative of a problem.
Malfegor was a key player in the Alara block story, but you'd probably have to be interested in Alara's story to know that.
Okay, sure. But is it actually iconic? Or even more memorable than the myriad of other "key players" from the game's various storylines with bulk cards?
I didn't fully understand this sentiment until I opened my box. One of my first rares was Malfegor. After looking it up, turns out it's a worthless rare from Conflux I'd never heard of. I found myself thinking "I wish I had opened a Shivan Dragon in this $10 pack," which is kind of indicative of a problem.
You're running enough basics that I'd suggest Land Tax. It can be great for getting fixing, it can ensure you never miss a land drop, and is solid for deck thinning.
The lands are interesting for sure. May be worth considering.
I'm really not sure the deck has enough instants for Isochron Scepter to be worth it. As for Paradox Engine and Dramatic Reversal, I'm not saying they're not great. But I'm not sure they outperform anything in the deck. Nor is there a pressing need to pull something of a different role.
The Scarab God: This card seems fantastic. I'm planning on testing it pretty much immediately. The removal protection makes it solid for pillowfort. We can just throw it at attacking creatures. And then its abilities can turn milled creatures into more gas. It can even serve as a secondary wincon. Razaketh, the Foulblooded: It's a powerful card for sure and a tutor on a stick. But it really doesn't do enough for its cost in this deck. Bontu's Last Reckoning: It's a super cheap boardwipe, which is great. But I'm not sure the downside is worth the low cost. Hour of Eternity: I love what this card does, and how it comboes with mill. But it feels WAY too overcosted. It costs five mana just to get a single token. And unlike The Scarab God, it's single use. So it'll end up taking a ton of mana at once to not do much. Fraying Sanity: I'm really iffy on this one, and think I'll probably pass. Sure, it can end up milling a bunch of cards. But it's only effective against a single target. And I'm not totally sure if it'll end up being win-more or not. Mirage Mirror: This seems like it could be really strong in most EDH decks. I just need to see if I can find a spot for it somewhere.
What I meant was that it could sometimes save Phenax from spells that target creatures since lupine can help keep devotion below threshold. As an example, last week Phenax doesn't die to fumigate since my lack of devotion saved his bacon. (This is somewhat of a magical christmas land scenario, but it being below threshold can help from time to time.
Not being a creature is often nice, for sure. But there's a lot of perks to him being a creature. And so I'm not totally opposed to it.
I'm putting together this deck as my first non-precon EDH deck, and I was wondering about a few cards: Lupine Prototype : This card looks like a good 5-butt for 2 generic mana. Doesn't help devotion, but I think that this is a minor point since that makes Phenax less vulnerable to creature exile spells. 1 Cheaper than Kefnet for same butt. Isleback Spawn: What's the consensus on this one? 4/8 for 7 isn't great, but when somebody dropped below 20 cards it gets +4/+8 and thus mills for 16 per tap. Is this a "Win more" card? Trophy Mage : Is this worth a card slot to call-up 3 drop mana-rocks?
Lupine Prototype is so fun and flavorful. But in most cases, we're better off with a wall. Even if it runs run more mana, we'll get some devotion, a bigger butt, and an immediate blocker. I am curious what you mean about exile protection though.
[Isleback Spawn] is, as you guessed it, very win-more in this deck. The base toughness of 8 for 7 mana is an awful deal for this deck. 16 for 7 mana isn't awful at all, though not amazing either. The issue is that by that point, you're probably already cooking with a win-con.
Trophy Mage could be useful if you really find yourself hurting for certain artifacts and Vampiric Tutor is out of your price range. Personally though I don't feel the need.
I don't see Opposition mentioned in OP. There is a healthy number of creatures that would benefit from hasted tap ability not connected to Phenax and it could provide some pillowfort capabilities (for you and for other players in case you need an argument in table politics). What do you think about it?
I'm building Phenax mill in more combo finish / group hug oriented way (if you can call Forced Fruition and Font on Mythos group hug cards), so I should benefit quite a lot from extending the game as much as possible but I need mass bounce effects like Aetherspouts so any suggestions of those are welcome (Evacuation and Cyclonic Rift are already in).
So honestly, Opposition could do some serious work. I mean, yes, it's mutually exclusive with milling. But it offers powerful control and, as you mentioned, a way to tap creatures early. I may put that in the "Meta-Specific" section as a consideration. It feels a little too cut-throat for my tastes, but I see the potential.
Off the top of my head, I'm not sure I have any suggestions for mass bounce.
Thanks for the questions and suggestions guys. I'll have my review for Hour of Destruction up soon.
If you're looking for mill to be your primary win-con, you want Oona or Phenax. Other commanders won't mill quickly enough, consistently enough. That being said, there are plenty of commanders who have mill as a win-con while also using incorporating other elements, like mill-toolbox, voltron, and clone. Generally these have all been touched on here in this thread.
As for single-use mill staples, the less the better. Realistically, if it can't mill a single player for at least 15 cards (15 spread out doesn't count) reliably for a good price, it's not worth it.
Kefnet the Mindful and Bontu the Glorified: They're cheap, high toughness creatures. They're hard to get rid of, and their attacker/blocker clause doesn't prevent them being used to mill. But being unable to block is a fairly big deal, and unfortunately their built in abilities don't do enough.
As Foretold: Really this could be great in almost any on-color EDH deck. I feel like this would just put a big target on me though, which isn't great for a mill deck.
Vizier of Many Faces: It's a fun clone for sure, but I don't feel like it generates enough utility relative to the other available clones.
Commit to Memory: I would never use Memory, but I'm seriously considering finding a slot just for Commit. It doubles as both a counterpell and permanent removal.
Okay, sure. But is it actually iconic? Or even more memorable than the myriad of other "key players" from the game's various storylines with bulk cards?
I'm really not sure the deck has enough instants for Isochron Scepter to be worth it. As for Paradox Engine and Dramatic Reversal, I'm not saying they're not great. But I'm not sure they outperform anything in the deck. Nor is there a pressing need to pull something of a different role.
I'll go over the rest of the set once the full spoiler is up.
The Scarab God: This card seems fantastic. I'm planning on testing it pretty much immediately. The removal protection makes it solid for pillowfort. We can just throw it at attacking creatures. And then its abilities can turn milled creatures into more gas. It can even serve as a secondary wincon.
Razaketh, the Foulblooded: It's a powerful card for sure and a tutor on a stick. But it really doesn't do enough for its cost in this deck.
Bontu's Last Reckoning: It's a super cheap boardwipe, which is great. But I'm not sure the downside is worth the low cost.
Hour of Eternity: I love what this card does, and how it comboes with mill. But it feels WAY too overcosted. It costs five mana just to get a single token. And unlike The Scarab God, it's single use. So it'll end up taking a ton of mana at once to not do much.
Fraying Sanity: I'm really iffy on this one, and think I'll probably pass. Sure, it can end up milling a bunch of cards. But it's only effective against a single target. And I'm not totally sure if it'll end up being win-more or not.
Mirage Mirror: This seems like it could be really strong in most EDH decks. I just need to see if I can find a spot for it somewhere.
Not being a creature is often nice, for sure. But there's a lot of perks to him being a creature. And so I'm not totally opposed to it.
It definitely has some powerful potential. But I feel like we have better tutor potential available if you really want it.
Lupine Prototype is so fun and flavorful. But in most cases, we're better off with a wall. Even if it runs run more mana, we'll get some devotion, a bigger butt, and an immediate blocker. I am curious what you mean about exile protection though.
[Isleback Spawn] is, as you guessed it, very win-more in this deck. The base toughness of 8 for 7 mana is an awful deal for this deck. 16 for 7 mana isn't awful at all, though not amazing either. The issue is that by that point, you're probably already cooking with a win-con.
Trophy Mage could be useful if you really find yourself hurting for certain artifacts and Vampiric Tutor is out of your price range. Personally though I don't feel the need.
So honestly, Opposition could do some serious work. I mean, yes, it's mutually exclusive with milling. But it offers powerful control and, as you mentioned, a way to tap creatures early. I may put that in the "Meta-Specific" section as a consideration. It feels a little too cut-throat for my tastes, but I see the potential.
Off the top of my head, I'm not sure I have any suggestions for mass bounce.
Thanks for the questions and suggestions guys. I'll have my review for Hour of Destruction up soon.
As for single-use mill staples, the less the better. Realistically, if it can't mill a single player for at least 15 cards (15 spread out doesn't count) reliably for a good price, it's not worth it.
Kefnet the Mindful and Bontu the Glorified: They're cheap, high toughness creatures. They're hard to get rid of, and their attacker/blocker clause doesn't prevent them being used to mill. But being unable to block is a fairly big deal, and unfortunately their built in abilities don't do enough.
As Foretold: Really this could be great in almost any on-color EDH deck. I feel like this would just put a big target on me though, which isn't great for a mill deck.
Vizier of Many Faces: It's a fun clone for sure, but I don't feel like it generates enough utility relative to the other available clones.
Commit to Memory: I would never use Memory, but I'm seriously considering finding a slot just for Commit. It doubles as both a counterpell and permanent removal.