@kOno - I can talk about some of those cards, not all!
Phantasmal Image - this was in the old lists to copy Deceiver, as you said. It was your pod target from a 1-drop. However, since we now have Scryb Ranger to enable a combo, I don't think Image is ever the correct POD target (or very rarely). As a result, the question is "do you want to naturally draw Image", and i think the answer is mainly no. I can see a few scenarios where it is a good POD target, but I'm not sure if there's enough.
Murderous Redcap - it does allow a combo, and blinking it is nice. But I think Glen Elendra is just better in almost all spots. Plus, both cards are pretty clunky when your against a linear deck.
Izzet Staticaster - it's a good card, but it just doesnt have many good MUs anymore. It was great when infect and affinity were everywhere, but that's just not the case anymore. Even lingering souls is at an all-time low. I had it in my SB for about 20 matches and it just wasn't ever that good... perhaps the mirror!
I've not tested the other 2 to be honest, but I do think we're already pretty heavy on 4-drops, with resto/hippo, vannifar and shalai all being pretty great cards to run.
@Slowman - there's a lot of different lists floatin around but they generally have the following setup:
21 lands + 11 dorks - this set-up has 3 wall of roots
22 lands + 10 dorks - 7x 1-drop & 3 walls
23 lands + 9 dorks - 4 BOPs 4 Hierarch and a wall
They all run 32 mana sources. Pignorton's list that you linked above is a different beast altogether, and the first i've seen of its kind.
My personal opinion is that you don't really need to run so many combo pieces. I think Scryb Ranger + Rallier is sufficient, and I don't see the need for the 6-drops or the Ranger of Eos package. Having said all of that, my results are not great either. So, it could be that I'm going down the wrong route and I should have more combo pieces. I'm not sure though, i think just having better creatures in general helps vs midrange and control.
Thalia has been good though, so Pignortons onto something there!
Ok another write-up from me:
I recently dropped my 23rd land and added the 4th chord without any mana troubles. I also added Deputy of Detention which has certainly been worth a slot.
I added Burrenton-Forge Tender and Lone Missionary to my sideboard, and that seems to have fixed the burn match-up.
However, I have a few things I'm not confident with. First, the Deaths Shadow MU seems pretty rough. Second, Tron felt kinda grim without Damping Sphere, so those are going back in. I left the deck at something like this: http://deck.tk/3pWd5QEG
There's a few things I want to think about, have a read because I share my thoughts on card selection and also ask for some help!
1. Do I beat tron consistently enough with Damping Sphere + Riders in the SB? Need to test more, and potentially there's a slot to play with to fix that.
2. Can I fix the Deaths Shadow match with the sideboard? Worship is an option, as is Fiery Justice or Chameleon Colossus. Any thoughts?
3. Do I beat decks like Jeskai Control without the trackers? If so, can I cut those and add better cards for the Bx match-up, which is usually a bit tougher.
4. Is Glen Elendra that good? It rarely lines up with Rhythm of the Wild, plus you almost always want double-blue when you cast it, making it quite rough on the manabase.
5. Is Rhythm of the Wild that good? The answer is actually yes, it's great. It helps in a race and it helps grind. The times where it's bad are against BGx and some of the faster decks where you're not really trying to combo (e.g. Against Burn, it sounds great to have unlimited finks, but actually you don't have time to take a turn off to play it, and you don't have the manabase to play it pain-free). The other issue, which is a much bigger issue, is that it's taking up slots which could be given to creatures. The deck wants creatures all the time, I'm now playing Thalia which taxes Rhythm. In addition, I really wanted to try and blank Stubborn Denial vs DS and this card makes that much much harder to achieve.
6. How do I change the manabase to better support Deputy of Detention? I wouldn't mind an extra blue source, but i'm already low on white (so swapping Sacred Foundry for Steam Vents doesn't appeal). If I drop Foundry for Fountain, I cannot search up red sources to cast my kiki-jiki quite as easily. I also want enough green sources for T1 Dork (about 18 ideally, giving me about 97% chance to cast BOPs).
7. The last thing I worry about the most is my 2-drops. The fewer Voice of Resurgence I play, the worse my UWx match-up becomes. The more of them I play, the less flexibility and options I have (e.g. scooze, pridemage, selfless spirit, thalia etc). There's only so many slots which makes it tricky (hence the Rhythm question earlier).
Much to think about, any thoughts from you guys would be great.
My recent record is a 3-2 and then 4x 4-1. I'm 0-1 in this league. My losses of late have been to Burn a couple of times, Grixis Shadow, U-tron and the mirror. The mirror is generally hard for me because I have very little relevant interaction and I am lower on combo pieces (e.g. the Saheeli Rai version is quicker than mine, so decks have MD Path etc).
Hey Guys,
Another long update from me... I'm getting some pretty good results now, the list is getting better - and the streams have been great fun! Think it's time for me to look at fancy add-ons and maybe a webcam!
Since the last run, I've tried a couple of new cards and adjusted the sideboard some more. I'm going to just leave a link to the list, since I'll keep that updated and you can see what i'm testing at any given time. https://deckstats.net/decks/86739/1173545-value-kiki-pod
Some more discussion on cards:
1. Glen Elendra + Rhythm of the Wild is a sick combo, but I don't currently run Elendra in the 75. I want to find space, but just haven't yet. I'm on 7x 4 drops, and feel like that's plenty in the main.
2. I'm making a concious effort to reduce the curve and have sticky creatures. This makes my chord of calling much more consistent.
3. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben has been really good maindeck, and I'm thinking of upping it to 2 copies.
4. Qasali Pridemage/Knight of Autumn are both pretty medium, but I want access to the effect, and putting them in the SB gives me less flexibility in the board.
5. Spellskite got cut. I like the card a lot, but some of the MUs where you want that effect (against removal) they can just ignore it, since it doesn't attack. It then just gets sweeped away by terminus or edict-ed by Liliana. It also grows opponents Goyfs. You don't particularly want it in a race. It basically becomes a card you want against Infect, but is below average everywhere else.
6. Fiery Justice is up in the air still. When you have 3 path to board in, bringing in 2 more pieces of removal actually stretches what you can board out. It's also not particularly impressive vs Spirits, and hard to resolve against Deaths Shadow. But, matches like Affinity & Elves this is a breaker.
7. 2nd Township has been pretty good.
8. I'd like a single Horizon Canopy over the 3rd Grove, if I could pick em up.
9. Burn is a tougher match-up than it looks on paper, and so I've added Burrenton Forge Tender (since it's also good vs Anger of the Gods.dec). Unsure if it's good enough just yet, and Lone Missionary is a consideration.
I'm pretty happy with about 68 of my 75 cards, and results have picked up. Long may it continue!
@GiJeJu - I haven't actually tested a tonne of white amulet, mainly because i'm playing with the new POD at the minute
But, I think the 2nd and 3rd EE in the board are a necessity in the white version, because you don't have firespout/pyroclasm. Sometimes you just need 2/3 for 1s, and EE is the best way to do that.
Ramunap I really disliked. The times that it's good, Tireless Tracker is also good. But then there's times when you want tracker over ramunap, as an example, against blood moon. I wouldn't run Ramunap myself, testing didn't go well.
I've never tested new Sigarda, but it looks fine. I really just want my SB creatures to be effective at what they're doing. So old Sigarda is really good vs Liliana, since they can't just terminate her then downtick Lili, whereas new Sigarda fails there. However, the token mode may make up for that, plus she's easier to cast. You'd have to test it unfortunately!
Hey 13055 - I think the white splash is probably pretty good right now. I don't particularly like the black splash, only Cranial Extraction is worth having and now that KCI is gone/going, then I think it's less useful. Goldfishing is an excellent way to get to grips with the opening hands. There's quite a lot going on when mulliganing, and you to accept that sometimes it's correct to keep a hand and it won't get there (e.g. keeping a hand full of ramp and lands with 0 threats, only to never draw the threat).
I did write a document on mulliganing with Amulet, it may help you. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AfpzQEnFFBP0iWN2XVM0G_WoKYueGdL6bqfH2mYrzic/edit?usp=sharing
Hey Guys,
Thought I'd do something similar to zyrgul and write up my weekends testing. I did stream some of the testing (twitch.tv/daviusminimus) and the VODs will be there for 14 days.
First off, my current record is 12-9, though a good chunk of wins were in the 2-mans, and a good chunk of losses were after some bad changes to the deck. I've made some other tweaks that I'm not sure about too, but just need to get more games under my belt.
So, I'll start by sharing the decklist that I'm planning to play next time I stream (hopefully tonight).
Next I just want to discuss the individual cards, and highlight which ones are feeling stock and which are in testing and I'm unsure on.
Rhythm of the Wild - this card has been pretty damn good. I don't think you want them vs BGx, and you don't particularly want to draw 2 in any match-up. However, casting this on Turn 2 and slamming Vannifar on 3 is insanely good, as is resolving this card vs any counter-spell deck (as you would imagine). It's an unbelievable feeling to know your voice of resurgence is resolving!! Knight of Autumn vs kitchen finks - I tested out both briefly. I prefer finks vs agro, knight vs control, finks vs midrange, knight vs combo (well KCI/Ad Nauseum). As soon as I made the change, I went on to lose vs Ad Nauseum where Knight would have won, and since there's very little in it outside of those MUs, I think Knight is the correct card to play. Lightning Bolt vs Path to Exile - Its obvious where Path is better and when bolt is better. The main reason for testing bolt is that pointing it at the dome and then witness-ing it back is a geniune way to steal some games. The fact that Path ramps decks like Storm is really relevant, but bolt not dealing with Thing in the Ice / Pheonix's is also relevant. I am not sure which should be main, and it's possible that it's a meta call. It's also possible that neither belong in the main. Path does belong in the 75 somewhere though. gavony township - In short, I don't know if this card is good. There's no persist in my list at present, and against anything fast you never activate it. It doesn't add green. I have a feeling horizon canopy may just be better, but I can't afford them. hall of the bandit lord - I know everyone hates this card, but so far it's not punished me for having it, and have won 1 game for having access to it. Pretty marginal. However, since I've added Rhythm of the Wild, I think it's time for this to go. Like township, it feels like canopy is the card to replace it, but I dont have access to it kiki-jiki, the mirror breaker No.2 - I don't know if I want 2 of these or just 1. Occasionally you draw it and cant cast it, and adding a 2nd makes that worse. But occasionally you draw it and win when you cast it, and that's good. Also, path on kiki isn't great. It's worth noting that I'll add a Fire-lit Thicket (probably for Hall) if I go to 2 kiki's. chord of calling No.3 - I also don't know if I want 3 of these or just 2. Kiki 2 or Chord 3 are in the same slot for me at present, otherwise the deck gets too clunky. The 3rd Chord helps vs combo since you can find your bombs a bit easier. However, it's a clunky magic card. eternal witness No.2 - the 2nd copy was to help re-buy cards like path / bolt and SB bombs more than anything. Rallier is better at getting creatures back for the most part, since the games where you need a creature to stick, it's usually better to get voice / scooze than resto from the GY. However, the witness isn't great in your opener, and is a bit clunky, especially if you don't have 1 of your 2 bolts. As a result, I can see this going back to 1 copy.
Everything other card I'm happy with, and it's doing what it should. I consider 23 lands, 9 dorks to be pretty close to correct, and the rest of the creatures are pretty well balanced.
And I just want to share my opinion on the MUs at this current spot. First of all, the deck will occasionally lose to itself. It has 32 mana sources, and you almost always want ramp in your opener. As a result, you sometimes keep a mana-heavy hand and loose, or keep a hand without ramp and get over-run. That does effect your winrate obviously.
However, the rest of the time, I have the feeling that:
1) Fast combo/Tron is heavily unfavourable G1 but somewhere between even/slightly favoured G2/G3. As a result, you're swimming against the tide but these are winnable. If you manage to steal a G1, then you are a heavy favourite to win the match, but otherwise it comes down to drawing the right hate pieces in time during G3.
2) Any Uxx control decks are heavily favourable. The combination of Voice of Resurgence + Rhythm of the Wild makes these hard to lose, plus the fact that we have a combo finish if they tap out to answer something.
3) Agro decks (burn/8-whack/affinity) tend to be favoured, because all your creatures generate some sort of value and clog up the board. As an example, against burn, voice of resurgence almost always saves you 2 life and leaves a body behind, wall of roots gains you 5+ (block a critter and take a bolt) etc. You continue to be favoured post-board.
4) Bxx Midrange decks tend to be difficult to beat. Although you have value cards, they can use discard to pick apart the most valueable pieces (like witness/resto) and use creature kill to deal with the combo. Your then left with a bunch of voice / knights to try and beat cards like Goyf, Liliana, Young Pyromancer etc. There's also games where they can disrupt your mana dorks and you're instantly behind. You continue to be unfavoured post-board.
Overall, I'd say you want to face control and agro, don't love combo but dislike midrange a bit more.
Hopefully that gives people a feel for where I'm at right this second.
Yeah you're right Zyrgul, it is list dependant. If I had hippos, Conscripts, Sun Titans etc I'd definitely run 2 Kiki's, and probably an extra Deceiver too. I'd want fire-lit thicket in those lists most likely.
@Sgears - your list looks fine, but I'll say the same I said to Lectrys... First, Cobra is 1 of the things that made Saheeli Cat great before, so cutting that doesn't seem right to me. Second, Resto Angel doesn't add anything other than 2 power. You're pretty all-in on the combo still, and felidar lets you do the pod chain and the saheeli flicker AND the kiki kill. No need for resto. Also, look at your curve. You have 9x 4 drops, its way too many. You also have very few cards that you want to sac to evo in the 2-drop slot. So you want to evo from 2 to 4, but you have no 2s and tonnes of 4s.
You have value you can sac at 3, but only 1x 5 drop to fetch.
My own Saheeli version had 0 hierarch, 4 bop, 4 cobra. You have an extra 2 dorks to me, which may be because of the 4-drops, but I think it's a little unncessary. What you're doing there is going all-in on the "if my dork lives" plan, instead of having a nice curve., which I think will just create really skewed match-ups. You'll be poor across bolt decks, better against combo, but occasionally just flood out too.
If I were you, I'd cut the restos altogether, and the tracker probably belongs in the side for grindy matches. With Deputy in the main as a bullet for problem cards, I think Knight is probably unnecessary too. Cutting those gives you space for cards like Coiling Oracle or Wall of Omens, which gives you chump blockers, re-draws towards combo pieces, and sac fodder to get you to your 4-drops. Oracle even ramps occasionally.
With 2 Ralliers and 2 Cobras, I could see a 9th fetch squeezing into your manabase as well.
All in all, I dont think your list is bad, but there's a balance issue imo. So many 4 drops and so few 2 drops makes no sense in an Evo deck. Your SB looks pretty good to me, though I do like Cataclysmic Gearhulk in the board, and potentially Thragtusk. You do have a couple of 3s to sac (knight, rallier) that could take you up to 5 in the MUs where that matters. The 2nd Shalai in the board doesn't excite me either, especially with MD township already.
@zyrgul_CZ - but as I said, in postboard games in particular, a hasty pod on 3 is going to win the game even if you can't combo because of bad luck... you just get the bomb you need or the value you need, and force the opp into an impossible position. I wont be adding the 2nd kiki just yet. I don't want to draw the card, so adding a 2nd makes it more likely. If I'm winning with POD even when I draw kiki, that means the deck is working well!
However, just be careful on your "cut a snake against bolt" approach. I'm running Explore, so that does change how I approach these things, but I tend to think about the deck in 3 sections.
1. Lands - can I cut some? which do I want to cut? Against a deck like Hatebears or Ponza, I just want as many lands in my deck as possible. Against most other decks, I'll go to 26 at a push, but I'd prefer to stick to 27 (I start with 28). I don't like cutting too many because that tends to cut into your untapped green sources. I occasionally run a SB land so that I can improve the lands without cutting too low (e.g. sometimes I run tect edge which can be better than fountain in some MUs).
2. Ramp - rather than thinking "am I facing bolt, cut scout", I tend to think about the speed of the games and the play patterns. For example, against BGx, I know I can cut 2 scouts + 4 amulet and still have plenty of ramp. I dodge bolt a little bit, dodge K-command a bit, and completely dodge fatal push. But, you have to keep in SOME early ramp which is why 2 scouts stay. 1 of the best ways to lose to BGx is a big goyf early, and leaving a few scouts helps there.
Against Jeskai control, my scouts aren't going to live and the clock is almost always slow. All 4 scouts can come out, but Amulets may want to stay in, especially if you've seen planeswalkers. Planeswalkers need pressuring after the opp has tapped out, and amulet helps you do that.
Against UWx though, Scout has more value. It's not easily killable for the opponent, and the ability to flash lands is great. Explore is better in the lategame, so I tend to like that land there. However, Amulets are less key. You still want access to the effect, but you don't want to topdeck them, so you can trim these imo. As a result, I tend to cut Azusa's quite agressively against UW. It lets me have flash tricks with scout, can pressure PWers with Amulet, and re-draw late-game with explore.
Against a deck like pheonix, the games are over quickly. Cutting snake to dodge bolt is just going to make you too slow. You almost have to just risk it. If the bolt comes at your head, it's not exactly a good thing anyway. The same is true against burn. If you were running explore, that'd be a card I cut there.
3. Threats. Against grindier decks, I go up on threats. Against the very fastest decks, I feel pretty comfortable making a cut. A card like primeval titan against KCI, as an example, isn't going to fetch up a 2nd titan very often. It's either going ot try kill the opp, fetch U-pact, or you're going to die. So you only need to see 1. If you are playing Ruric, then its pretty easy to swap a titan for a ruric, but I would also then consider trimming ANOTHER titan. However, if you don't run Ruric, I would cut a summoner's pact before a titan, because the utility from Pact is minimal, but the upkeep can be very relevant. Against a chalice deck, I'll happily trim U-pact + 2x G-pact.
Trinket Mage is a card that I'm not a big fan of, and as a result, cant give too much advice on it. It looks an easy cut to me post-board though, especially in the games where you're less reliant on amulet. Yes mage fetches ballista/EE, but those cards are much better when you naturally draw them, for the most part. On top of this, always consider if you want EE/Ballista/U-pact. Those are the first cuts I tend to make.
Hey guys,
First of all, @Lectrys, I'd like to see a cobra or 2 more in place of hierarch. It does allow some good lines with rallier... if you took that route, an extra rallier or 2 would make sense. Also, I'm not sure what Phantasmal Image offers any more. If we have a 1-drop, we can just combo, no need for image. If we don't, well, you're hoping to naturally draw image and get value. Seems a bit strange to me. Quite an easy change would be something like -1 hierarch, -1 image, +1 rallier +1 cobra. Think that'd smooth out your draws a bit.
Second - please all take this with a massive pinch of salt. I played 2 whole matches on MTGO last night (should have been sleeping, oh well). I'm going to stream later today, a few times if possible. Follow me on twitch.tv/daviusminimus so you get the notifications
Anyway, in my 2 matches, playing the more midrangy/controlly version with 3 chords... I beat a RW Humans deck, and even had a hasty Vannifar off a Hall of the Bandit Lord. It was pretty nice, but I had naturally drawn the Kiki and it was practically uncastable in my hand (I had hierarch + wall of roots, no BOP). But, a T3 Vanifar in post-board games gives you so much value that you're a massive favourite. In that particular match, I podded up ranger, into rallier. Ranger into deceiver into resto which flickered rallier to return a fetch which allowed me to cast a voice of resurgence. So, I went from Dork, Wall, Vannifar to... Rallier, Resto, Voice, Wall, Vannifar... all on Turn 3 against an agro deck. They were never getting through all that, which gave me time to just make land drops and cast kiki, eventually!
I also played storm. A modo bug that doesn't let me undo a wall of roots activation meant that I lost G1 (I woulda had a tonne of mana up and a scooze). I then lost Game 2 from flooding out.
Before I played any matches at all, I was concerned with the 23 land 10 dork set-up I was running. In every 1 of my games, I was able to keep a hand with lands + dork, but multiple times I flooded out. I'm going to try cutting a dork (wall of roots first) and possibly even a 2nd. Compared to old kiki-pod lists, this is a) less likely to pod away a creature, since vannifar isn't as sticky b) has ralliers that can return fetches/lands and c) has less mana sinks in township. I may cut the 3rd Hierarch yet too, but we'll see how I get on with 9 dorks!
Yeah I agree with everything you've said there EternalDragon. So where I sit on the matter is that I'd either want Path for bigger creatures or Abrade for flexibility... and not really trophy.
To the guys that are long-time Kiki-Chord players... can you share what you think about the Vannifar? I know it has it's own thread right now, but I do just love Kiki-chord decks in general. Questions I have right now:
1. Do you think Vannifar does anything?
2. If yes, do you see it alongside Chord, Evo, both or neither?
3. If no, how is kiki-chord without Vannifar right now?
I just played 10 matches on MODO (obviously without Vannifar) and went 5-0 into 2-3 in the friendly leagues. I really liked having both chord and evo, as both are good in different places. Is that the norm these days?
Phantasmal Image - this was in the old lists to copy Deceiver, as you said. It was your pod target from a 1-drop. However, since we now have Scryb Ranger to enable a combo, I don't think Image is ever the correct POD target (or very rarely). As a result, the question is "do you want to naturally draw Image", and i think the answer is mainly no. I can see a few scenarios where it is a good POD target, but I'm not sure if there's enough.
Murderous Redcap - it does allow a combo, and blinking it is nice. But I think Glen Elendra is just better in almost all spots. Plus, both cards are pretty clunky when your against a linear deck.
Izzet Staticaster - it's a good card, but it just doesnt have many good MUs anymore. It was great when infect and affinity were everywhere, but that's just not the case anymore. Even lingering souls is at an all-time low. I had it in my SB for about 20 matches and it just wasn't ever that good... perhaps the mirror!
I've not tested the other 2 to be honest, but I do think we're already pretty heavy on 4-drops, with resto/hippo, vannifar and shalai all being pretty great cards to run.
21 lands + 11 dorks - this set-up has 3 wall of roots
22 lands + 10 dorks - 7x 1-drop & 3 walls
23 lands + 9 dorks - 4 BOPs 4 Hierarch and a wall
They all run 32 mana sources. Pignorton's list that you linked above is a different beast altogether, and the first i've seen of its kind.
My personal opinion is that you don't really need to run so many combo pieces. I think Scryb Ranger + Rallier is sufficient, and I don't see the need for the 6-drops or the Ranger of Eos package. Having said all of that, my results are not great either. So, it could be that I'm going down the wrong route and I should have more combo pieces. I'm not sure though, i think just having better creatures in general helps vs midrange and control.
Thalia has been good though, so Pignortons onto something there!
I recently dropped my 23rd land and added the 4th chord without any mana troubles. I also added Deputy of Detention which has certainly been worth a slot.
I added Burrenton-Forge Tender and Lone Missionary to my sideboard, and that seems to have fixed the burn match-up.
However, I have a few things I'm not confident with. First, the Deaths Shadow MU seems pretty rough. Second, Tron felt kinda grim without Damping Sphere, so those are going back in. I left the deck at something like this:
http://deck.tk/3pWd5QEG
There's a few things I want to think about, have a read because I share my thoughts on card selection and also ask for some help!
1. Do I beat tron consistently enough with Damping Sphere + Riders in the SB? Need to test more, and potentially there's a slot to play with to fix that.
2. Can I fix the Deaths Shadow match with the sideboard? Worship is an option, as is Fiery Justice or Chameleon Colossus. Any thoughts?
3. Do I beat decks like Jeskai Control without the trackers? If so, can I cut those and add better cards for the Bx match-up, which is usually a bit tougher.
4. Is Glen Elendra that good? It rarely lines up with Rhythm of the Wild, plus you almost always want double-blue when you cast it, making it quite rough on the manabase.
5. Is Rhythm of the Wild that good? The answer is actually yes, it's great. It helps in a race and it helps grind. The times where it's bad are against BGx and some of the faster decks where you're not really trying to combo (e.g. Against Burn, it sounds great to have unlimited finks, but actually you don't have time to take a turn off to play it, and you don't have the manabase to play it pain-free). The other issue, which is a much bigger issue, is that it's taking up slots which could be given to creatures. The deck wants creatures all the time, I'm now playing Thalia which taxes Rhythm. In addition, I really wanted to try and blank Stubborn Denial vs DS and this card makes that much much harder to achieve.
6. How do I change the manabase to better support Deputy of Detention? I wouldn't mind an extra blue source, but i'm already low on white (so swapping Sacred Foundry for Steam Vents doesn't appeal). If I drop Foundry for Fountain, I cannot search up red sources to cast my kiki-jiki quite as easily. I also want enough green sources for T1 Dork (about 18 ideally, giving me about 97% chance to cast BOPs).
7. The last thing I worry about the most is my 2-drops. The fewer Voice of Resurgence I play, the worse my UWx match-up becomes. The more of them I play, the less flexibility and options I have (e.g. scooze, pridemage, selfless spirit, thalia etc). There's only so many slots which makes it tricky (hence the Rhythm question earlier).
Much to think about, any thoughts from you guys would be great.
My recent record is a 3-2 and then 4x 4-1. I'm 0-1 in this league. My losses of late have been to Burn a couple of times, Grixis Shadow, U-tron and the mirror. The mirror is generally hard for me because I have very little relevant interaction and I am lower on combo pieces (e.g. the Saheeli Rai version is quicker than mine, so decks have MD Path etc).
https://discord.gg/gtxEvQe
That link shouldn't expire. 100+ members at the minute.
Another long update from me... I'm getting some pretty good results now, the list is getting better - and the streams have been great fun! Think it's time for me to look at fancy add-ons and maybe a webcam!
Since the last run, I've tried a couple of new cards and adjusted the sideboard some more. I'm going to just leave a link to the list, since I'll keep that updated and you can see what i'm testing at any given time.
https://deckstats.net/decks/86739/1173545-value-kiki-pod
Some more discussion on cards:
1. Glen Elendra + Rhythm of the Wild is a sick combo, but I don't currently run Elendra in the 75. I want to find space, but just haven't yet. I'm on 7x 4 drops, and feel like that's plenty in the main.
2. I'm making a concious effort to reduce the curve and have sticky creatures. This makes my chord of calling much more consistent.
3. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben has been really good maindeck, and I'm thinking of upping it to 2 copies.
4. Qasali Pridemage/Knight of Autumn are both pretty medium, but I want access to the effect, and putting them in the SB gives me less flexibility in the board.
5. Spellskite got cut. I like the card a lot, but some of the MUs where you want that effect (against removal) they can just ignore it, since it doesn't attack. It then just gets sweeped away by terminus or edict-ed by Liliana. It also grows opponents Goyfs. You don't particularly want it in a race. It basically becomes a card you want against Infect, but is below average everywhere else.
6. Fiery Justice is up in the air still. When you have 3 path to board in, bringing in 2 more pieces of removal actually stretches what you can board out. It's also not particularly impressive vs Spirits, and hard to resolve against Deaths Shadow. But, matches like Affinity & Elves this is a breaker.
7. 2nd Township has been pretty good.
8. I'd like a single Horizon Canopy over the 3rd Grove, if I could pick em up.
9. Burn is a tougher match-up than it looks on paper, and so I've added Burrenton Forge Tender (since it's also good vs Anger of the Gods.dec). Unsure if it's good enough just yet, and Lone Missionary is a consideration.
I'm pretty happy with about 68 of my 75 cards, and results have picked up. Long may it continue!
But, I think the 2nd and 3rd EE in the board are a necessity in the white version, because you don't have firespout/pyroclasm. Sometimes you just need 2/3 for 1s, and EE is the best way to do that.
Ramunap I really disliked. The times that it's good, Tireless Tracker is also good. But then there's times when you want tracker over ramunap, as an example, against blood moon. I wouldn't run Ramunap myself, testing didn't go well.
I've never tested new Sigarda, but it looks fine. I really just want my SB creatures to be effective at what they're doing. So old Sigarda is really good vs Liliana, since they can't just terminate her then downtick Lili, whereas new Sigarda fails there. However, the token mode may make up for that, plus she's easier to cast. You'd have to test it unfortunately!
I did write a document on mulliganing with Amulet, it may help you.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AfpzQEnFFBP0iWN2XVM0G_WoKYueGdL6bqfH2mYrzic/edit?usp=sharing
Thought I'd do something similar to zyrgul and write up my weekends testing. I did stream some of the testing (twitch.tv/daviusminimus) and the VODs will be there for 14 days.
First off, my current record is 12-9, though a good chunk of wins were in the 2-mans, and a good chunk of losses were after some bad changes to the deck. I've made some other tweaks that I'm not sure about too, but just need to get more games under my belt.
So, I'll start by sharing the decklist that I'm planning to play next time I stream (hopefully tonight).
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
3 Forest
1 Gavony Township
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Chord of Calling
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Rhythm of the Wild
1 Deceiver Exarch
2 Eternal Witness
2 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
2 Knight of Autumn
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Prime Speaker Vannifar
1 Renegade Rallier
3 Restoration Angel
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Spellskite
3 Voice of Resurgence
2 Wall of Roots
1 Avalanche Riders
3 Damping Sphere
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Fiery Justice
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Magus of the Moon
2 Path to Exile
1 Remorseful Cleric
1 Stony Silence
2 Tireless Tracker
Rhythm of the Wild - this card has been pretty damn good. I don't think you want them vs BGx, and you don't particularly want to draw 2 in any match-up. However, casting this on Turn 2 and slamming Vannifar on 3 is insanely good, as is resolving this card vs any counter-spell deck (as you would imagine). It's an unbelievable feeling to know your voice of resurgence is resolving!!
Knight of Autumn vs kitchen finks - I tested out both briefly. I prefer finks vs agro, knight vs control, finks vs midrange, knight vs combo (well KCI/Ad Nauseum). As soon as I made the change, I went on to lose vs Ad Nauseum where Knight would have won, and since there's very little in it outside of those MUs, I think Knight is the correct card to play.
Lightning Bolt vs Path to Exile - Its obvious where Path is better and when bolt is better. The main reason for testing bolt is that pointing it at the dome and then witness-ing it back is a geniune way to steal some games. The fact that Path ramps decks like Storm is really relevant, but bolt not dealing with Thing in the Ice / Pheonix's is also relevant. I am not sure which should be main, and it's possible that it's a meta call. It's also possible that neither belong in the main. Path does belong in the 75 somewhere though.
gavony township - In short, I don't know if this card is good. There's no persist in my list at present, and against anything fast you never activate it. It doesn't add green. I have a feeling horizon canopy may just be better, but I can't afford them.
hall of the bandit lord - I know everyone hates this card, but so far it's not punished me for having it, and have won 1 game for having access to it. Pretty marginal. However, since I've added Rhythm of the Wild, I think it's time for this to go. Like township, it feels like canopy is the card to replace it, but I dont have access to it
kiki-jiki, the mirror breaker No.2 - I don't know if I want 2 of these or just 1. Occasionally you draw it and cant cast it, and adding a 2nd makes that worse. But occasionally you draw it and win when you cast it, and that's good. Also, path on kiki isn't great. It's worth noting that I'll add a Fire-lit Thicket (probably for Hall) if I go to 2 kiki's.
chord of calling No.3 - I also don't know if I want 3 of these or just 2. Kiki 2 or Chord 3 are in the same slot for me at present, otherwise the deck gets too clunky. The 3rd Chord helps vs combo since you can find your bombs a bit easier. However, it's a clunky magic card.
eternal witness No.2 - the 2nd copy was to help re-buy cards like path / bolt and SB bombs more than anything. Rallier is better at getting creatures back for the most part, since the games where you need a creature to stick, it's usually better to get voice / scooze than resto from the GY. However, the witness isn't great in your opener, and is a bit clunky, especially if you don't have 1 of your 2 bolts. As a result, I can see this going back to 1 copy.
Everything other card I'm happy with, and it's doing what it should. I consider 23 lands, 9 dorks to be pretty close to correct, and the rest of the creatures are pretty well balanced.
However, the rest of the time, I have the feeling that:
1) Fast combo/Tron is heavily unfavourable G1 but somewhere between even/slightly favoured G2/G3. As a result, you're swimming against the tide but these are winnable. If you manage to steal a G1, then you are a heavy favourite to win the match, but otherwise it comes down to drawing the right hate pieces in time during G3.
2) Any Uxx control decks are heavily favourable. The combination of Voice of Resurgence + Rhythm of the Wild makes these hard to lose, plus the fact that we have a combo finish if they tap out to answer something.
3) Agro decks (burn/8-whack/affinity) tend to be favoured, because all your creatures generate some sort of value and clog up the board. As an example, against burn, voice of resurgence almost always saves you 2 life and leaves a body behind, wall of roots gains you 5+ (block a critter and take a bolt) etc. You continue to be favoured post-board.
4) Bxx Midrange decks tend to be difficult to beat. Although you have value cards, they can use discard to pick apart the most valueable pieces (like witness/resto) and use creature kill to deal with the combo. Your then left with a bunch of voice / knights to try and beat cards like Goyf, Liliana, Young Pyromancer etc. There's also games where they can disrupt your mana dorks and you're instantly behind. You continue to be unfavoured post-board.
Overall, I'd say you want to face control and agro, don't love combo but dislike midrange a bit more.
Hopefully that gives people a feel for where I'm at right this second.
You have value you can sac at 3, but only 1x 5 drop to fetch.
My own Saheeli version had 0 hierarch, 4 bop, 4 cobra. You have an extra 2 dorks to me, which may be because of the 4-drops, but I think it's a little unncessary. What you're doing there is going all-in on the "if my dork lives" plan, instead of having a nice curve., which I think will just create really skewed match-ups. You'll be poor across bolt decks, better against combo, but occasionally just flood out too.
If I were you, I'd cut the restos altogether, and the tracker probably belongs in the side for grindy matches. With Deputy in the main as a bullet for problem cards, I think Knight is probably unnecessary too. Cutting those gives you space for cards like Coiling Oracle or Wall of Omens, which gives you chump blockers, re-draws towards combo pieces, and sac fodder to get you to your 4-drops. Oracle even ramps occasionally.
With 2 Ralliers and 2 Cobras, I could see a 9th fetch squeezing into your manabase as well.
All in all, I dont think your list is bad, but there's a balance issue imo. So many 4 drops and so few 2 drops makes no sense in an Evo deck. Your SB looks pretty good to me, though I do like Cataclysmic Gearhulk in the board, and potentially Thragtusk. You do have a couple of 3s to sac (knight, rallier) that could take you up to 5 in the MUs where that matters. The 2nd Shalai in the board doesn't excite me either, especially with MD township already.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13pe8OHJJaqLpi6HdZ0lhr9vp6al7OmUJNgap3IR7Hqk/edit?usp=sharing
However, just be careful on your "cut a snake against bolt" approach. I'm running Explore, so that does change how I approach these things, but I tend to think about the deck in 3 sections.
1. Lands - can I cut some? which do I want to cut? Against a deck like Hatebears or Ponza, I just want as many lands in my deck as possible. Against most other decks, I'll go to 26 at a push, but I'd prefer to stick to 27 (I start with 28). I don't like cutting too many because that tends to cut into your untapped green sources. I occasionally run a SB land so that I can improve the lands without cutting too low (e.g. sometimes I run tect edge which can be better than fountain in some MUs).
2. Ramp - rather than thinking "am I facing bolt, cut scout", I tend to think about the speed of the games and the play patterns. For example, against BGx, I know I can cut 2 scouts + 4 amulet and still have plenty of ramp. I dodge bolt a little bit, dodge K-command a bit, and completely dodge fatal push. But, you have to keep in SOME early ramp which is why 2 scouts stay. 1 of the best ways to lose to BGx is a big goyf early, and leaving a few scouts helps there.
Against Jeskai control, my scouts aren't going to live and the clock is almost always slow. All 4 scouts can come out, but Amulets may want to stay in, especially if you've seen planeswalkers. Planeswalkers need pressuring after the opp has tapped out, and amulet helps you do that.
Against UWx though, Scout has more value. It's not easily killable for the opponent, and the ability to flash lands is great. Explore is better in the lategame, so I tend to like that land there. However, Amulets are less key. You still want access to the effect, but you don't want to topdeck them, so you can trim these imo. As a result, I tend to cut Azusa's quite agressively against UW. It lets me have flash tricks with scout, can pressure PWers with Amulet, and re-draw late-game with explore.
Against a deck like pheonix, the games are over quickly. Cutting snake to dodge bolt is just going to make you too slow. You almost have to just risk it. If the bolt comes at your head, it's not exactly a good thing anyway. The same is true against burn. If you were running explore, that'd be a card I cut there.
3. Threats. Against grindier decks, I go up on threats. Against the very fastest decks, I feel pretty comfortable making a cut. A card like primeval titan against KCI, as an example, isn't going to fetch up a 2nd titan very often. It's either going ot try kill the opp, fetch U-pact, or you're going to die. So you only need to see 1. If you are playing Ruric, then its pretty easy to swap a titan for a ruric, but I would also then consider trimming ANOTHER titan. However, if you don't run Ruric, I would cut a summoner's pact before a titan, because the utility from Pact is minimal, but the upkeep can be very relevant. Against a chalice deck, I'll happily trim U-pact + 2x G-pact.
Trinket Mage is a card that I'm not a big fan of, and as a result, cant give too much advice on it. It looks an easy cut to me post-board though, especially in the games where you're less reliant on amulet. Yes mage fetches ballista/EE, but those cards are much better when you naturally draw them, for the most part. On top of this, always consider if you want EE/Ballista/U-pact. Those are the first cuts I tend to make.
First of all, @Lectrys, I'd like to see a cobra or 2 more in place of hierarch. It does allow some good lines with rallier... if you took that route, an extra rallier or 2 would make sense. Also, I'm not sure what Phantasmal Image offers any more. If we have a 1-drop, we can just combo, no need for image. If we don't, well, you're hoping to naturally draw image and get value. Seems a bit strange to me. Quite an easy change would be something like -1 hierarch, -1 image, +1 rallier +1 cobra. Think that'd smooth out your draws a bit.
Second - please all take this with a massive pinch of salt. I played 2 whole matches on MTGO last night (should have been sleeping, oh well). I'm going to stream later today, a few times if possible. Follow me on twitch.tv/daviusminimus so you get the notifications
Anyway, in my 2 matches, playing the more midrangy/controlly version with 3 chords... I beat a RW Humans deck, and even had a hasty Vannifar off a Hall of the Bandit Lord. It was pretty nice, but I had naturally drawn the Kiki and it was practically uncastable in my hand (I had hierarch + wall of roots, no BOP). But, a T3 Vanifar in post-board games gives you so much value that you're a massive favourite. In that particular match, I podded up ranger, into rallier. Ranger into deceiver into resto which flickered rallier to return a fetch which allowed me to cast a voice of resurgence. So, I went from Dork, Wall, Vannifar to... Rallier, Resto, Voice, Wall, Vannifar... all on Turn 3 against an agro deck. They were never getting through all that, which gave me time to just make land drops and cast kiki, eventually!
I also played storm. A modo bug that doesn't let me undo a wall of roots activation meant that I lost G1 (I woulda had a tonne of mana up and a scooze). I then lost Game 2 from flooding out.
Before I played any matches at all, I was concerned with the 23 land 10 dork set-up I was running. In every 1 of my games, I was able to keep a hand with lands + dork, but multiple times I flooded out. I'm going to try cutting a dork (wall of roots first) and possibly even a 2nd. Compared to old kiki-pod lists, this is a) less likely to pod away a creature, since vannifar isn't as sticky b) has ralliers that can return fetches/lands and c) has less mana sinks in township. I may cut the 3rd Hierarch yet too, but we'll see how I get on with 9 dorks!
1. Do you think Vannifar does anything?
2. If yes, do you see it alongside Chord, Evo, both or neither?
3. If no, how is kiki-chord without Vannifar right now?
I just played 10 matches on MODO (obviously without Vannifar) and went 5-0 into 2-3 in the friendly leagues. I really liked having both chord and evo, as both are good in different places. Is that the norm these days?