Anything from SoI, you like and want to add to the deck?
I've been looking at Tamiyo's Journal for sb against grindy matches.
I gotta try it out, I know, it's a little slow, but once it's in,
it makes free artifacts every turn, and if you get enough,
you can tutor for whatever you like.
Looking for peoples opinions on a Thopter "Sword" combo for this deck. Combo involves Thopter Foundry, Salvaging Station, and Flayerhusk. If you sac the husk to foundry the germ dies and triggers station's untap. Salvaging Station + Trinket Mage lets you have a nice little deck/gy toolbox as well. Haven't played many games with it so I can't really give a whole lot of input as far at play is concerned but I figured I'd bring up an option that I haven't seen dicussed before.
So funny story, that is actually the first deck I was trying to put together when I first found the original Tezzeret thread:
Salvaging Station is actually a pretty good card, it just really needs to cost like 3 or 4 instead of 6, why play a Salvaging Station when a Wurmcoil Engine is better like 90% of the time? I dropped the combo pretty quick and moved towards the more classical control lists.
@DuskHorizons : living to cast Ad Nauseam is the challenge, i think. But then, still it's a «fair» Ad Nauseam you're casting. Because the dedicated Ad Nauseam deck will use the card to win on the spot with Lightning Storm. So, why go fair when you can go unfair? Throw a couple of Time Sieve in there, and win on the spot you too, off Tezz. No? Ah, but don't forget a couple Angel's grace. But then, isn't the Ad Nauseam reg deck just better, more streamlined?
All questions that need to be asked!
I think the idea would be more it is a utility card, for the Ad Nauseam deck you need to draw the card or you lose, here it would just be another powerful spell.
Not saying it is right or good (despite being cool and interesting), but there is a difference.
Longtime lurker, I've had interest in Tezzeret for awhile. On the Hoogland stream it wasn't looking too good. He lost to Eldrazi G1, beat a Miracles deck G2, lost to Grishoalbrand G3, and was losing badly to DnT G4 when I quit watching. His build looked good on paper, but he was mulliganing left and right, got flooded a bunch, etc. Definitely something to it, though. I'm interested to see where the refinements go.
Honestly it looks like one my really old builds, lemme see if I can find one...
This one got featured over here when I placed in a daily I think:
No 2 CMC spot removal was a mistake I fixed later, also this was pre Polluted Delta and Hangarback.
One of the things Hoogland said is he didn't like Thirst for Knowledge since there is already the potential for a lot of card advantage inherently through the powerful spells. I have always liked my playset of Serum Visions since I stopped using Thirst as much since it helps with that problem of those odd starting hands or helping against flood.
Also the reason I stopped using Trinket Mage is because you had to play some sub-par cards like Executioner's Capsule and things like Chalice aren't as good on turn 4. But maybe with some more early interaction it could be better, Disfigure is a great card that seems missing from his list.
Inspired by jokers list :3, Coretapper + Power Conduit almost creates a countertop effect with Chalice of the Void. While at it, throwing a silly idea, dismantleling a Darksteel Reactor effectively doubles it's charge counters. The only problem with Darksteel Reactor is that it doesn't do anything else except diluting the game plan and being an unreliable win condition. Surge Node also seems like an interesting artifact albeit it's limited uses and the fact that you have to spend a mana to do it each time. Also with that amount of 0 drops, is it possible/reliable to use Reshape into Lotus Bloom?
Doesn't really work well, Chalice doesn't trigger when the card is not the CMC of the Chalice charge counters, so there is no trigger to respond to if you want to adjust the number of counters. Surge Node seems good if you want more counter adding effects, the question is how many of each do you want? You really want to draw Day's Undoing and Tezzeret with the deck, so I think more card draw is in order, 4x Thoughtcast seems like an easy inclusion.
The deck seems silly and fun to goof around with, but does it do anything better than regular Affinity? If Day's Undoing is the focus, how does the deck do if it doesn't draw it?
Also, just looking over stuff, Far/Away is a very good answer to B/x Eldrazi and Tron. Bouncing a Processor, and having them sack Newlamog or Emrakul is just funny.
3 Mana sacrifice is very sub-par as is 2 mana bounce, especially against any aggro deck. Also if they have already cast a processor and a Newlamog, they got value off the first and killed two of your permanents, now you bounced a processor so they get to cast it again for more value . For Tron killing a Wurmcoil Engine is not exciting and if they are casting an Emrakul, the game isn't going well.
Adding answers against Tron / Eldrazi I think is the wrong way to go, you will never be able to go over them. You either have to just be fast enough to get under them, or have a clock + land disruption.
As for silly cards against them (that I wouldn't actually run, but like thinking about it), I like Bribery, Commandeer, or Hit // Run
@PsychoMantis: if you put your money on Bx Eldrazi being the new top deck, Isnt it wrong to also rely on Bottled Cloister, that effectively staples a thoughtseize on each and every processor card they run?
In most cases, I will not play a Cloister before I have an Ensnaring Bridge on board or I'm practically hellbent anyway, and once I have a Bridge, feel free to Thoughtseize away, I don't need anything else. Cloister is really a support card that is kinda sweet.
Condolences about the ban guys, I was never a twin player, but despite being scared when sitting across the table they were always good matches. I also appreciated you guys keeping Tron in check.
How does the banning of Twin bode for us in general?
Also, Racing089's writeup on tappedout remids me I have a popular list over there with explanations on card choices. I have mentioned this thread in my write up, and said it's the place to come if you like that deck. Self plug
tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tezzerets-torture-tools.
I'm leaning towards Gabriel Nassif's Bridge deck at this point, or as I like to call it Turbo Bridges. It is a bit speculative, but I think B/x Eldrazi is going to be the #1 deck in OGW, the number of new upgrades they get is actually silly, followed by #2 Affinity as it has a good matchup against Eldrazi. I think Turbo Bridges is in a good place to beat Eldrazi decks and it can side in a bunch of Stony Silences.
EDIT:
Here is my Turbo Bridges build, tweaked from Nassif's base, added a Tar Pit, down to 3 Lilianas (might be a mistake, but I've always liked 3), several sideboard changes.
Hi guys, they just banned my favourite deck. Fortunately, I have most cards needed for Grixis Control. I only have 1 Jace, VP though. Do you think it's possible to play some version of this deck with 4 Snapcasters, 1 Jace, VP and perhaps fill the void with other cards like Goblin Dark-Dwellers, Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet or Mulldrifter? Also, how will this deck fare in a metagame with GR Tron and Bx Eldrazi being the top dogs?
Honestly the "Blue Jund" style with Jace shined in grindy matchups, you cannot grind against Tron or Eldrazi. I'm not even sure you want to play mini Jace and I think maindeck Fulminator Mages are a must now, Tron's biggest enemy is dead and we have a new fast mana deck around. This is obviously speculative and theorycrafting on my part, so take it as you will.
Hello fellow Tezzeret players. I have created a very extensive deck tech and posted it to tappedout for easy viewing. It explains all of my card choices and a brief overview of matchups against top tier decks. Given that you are already on this forum, most of what you read will be old news to you, but if you would like to discuss the article I would be happy to talk about. I will most likely be posting the article to reddit tomorrow if the mtgsalvation community receives the deck tech well.
One more thing to mention in the mana is Ghost Quarter can fetch basics with Darksteel Citadel, something a lot of newer people to the deck can miss and pops up more often than you would think.
As for me I'm goofing around with the Bottled Cloister idea, and I think the Turbo Bridges deck can have a great matchup against B/x Eldrazi, the one version I lost to was the Heartless Summoning version, which runs 4 Newlamogs instead of 2, and the opponent had to cast all 4 to beat me in Game 3. As for the Cloister, it would actually be amazing with Sea Gate Wreckage as you can always activate on your opponent's turn. You also only cast the card once you have stabilized, so it is kind of in the same slot that Thopter Spy Network would be.
After playing with only UB I can see why he was running Meddling Mage, you name their answer to Bridge and slowly keep locking them out of the game. If I had Meddling Mage I absolutely would have crushed the Eldrazi player.
I like the idea of all in on bridge, but I think you need the sideboard plan to not involve it, again the Game 1 bridge plan.
I thought about it a little bit and figured Bottled Cloister would suck against Eldrazi, but if you can just stop Ulamog you don't really care if they process anything out of your Cloister "hand", just don't play Cloister until you resolve Bridge. The other good thing is that even post board they actually have 0 answers besides Ulamog to a resolved Bridge. So bridge is actually amazing in the matchup even post board.
The other thing I want to do is have 3-4 Ensoul Artifact for a direct swap of Bridge in the board for matchups where they will have answers, ideally to be played on Darksteels where their artifact removal won't matter.
I've actually really enjoyed Grixis Control, but if Bx Eldrazi keeps getting more popular, a Bridge build will be a great attack on the metagame. I also love the swap to Stony Silence post board since Ancient Grudge out of Affinity is a ridiculous back breaker.
Think I'm gonna fool around with a UBw build.
EDIT: On second thought, it is really Meddling Mage that he is banking on for white, maybe its just back to basics in UB + Bridge is the plan.
I've been taking a bit of a break from the Tezz for Grixis control and three cards I've seen for anti-burn tech are Tribute to Hunger, Vampiric Link, and Peace Strider as some other options. I think the Vampiric Link is a bit too cute, but Tribute is some nice lifegain in a color that doesn't have too much of it, and Peace Strider is an artifact that gets value as it hits the table and blocks all their stuff.
My brew juices are flowing so hard right now.
I've got a full 4x playset of Foundry and Sword from Legacy Tezz and ready to rock... Here's some basic thoughts:
I think 5 CMC for no board impact is way too bad, haven't seen anything that really excites me that much after a brief look.
So funny story, that is actually the first deck I was trying to put together when I first found the original Tezzeret thread:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/modern-archives/modern-archives-deck-creation/528023-u-b-x-tezzeret-agent-of-bolas-control-12-2013-5?page=3#c56
Salvaging Station is actually a pretty good card, it just really needs to cost like 3 or 4 instead of 6, why play a Salvaging Station when a Wurmcoil Engine is better like 90% of the time? I dropped the combo pretty quick and moved towards the more classical control lists.
I think the idea would be more it is a utility card, for the Ad Nauseam deck you need to draw the card or you lose, here it would just be another powerful spell.
Not saying it is right or good (despite being cool and interesting), but there is a difference.
Honestly it looks like one my really old builds, lemme see if I can find one...
This one got featured over here when I placed in a daily I think:
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=11812
3 Trinket Mage
3 Spellskite
1 Batterskull
Spells
2 Damnation
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thirst for Knowledge
Walkers
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
3 Liliana of the Veil
Artifacts
4 Talisman of Dominance
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Pithing Needle
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Executioner's Capsule
1 Trading Post
3 Darksteel Citadel
1 Watery Grave
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Academy Ruins
2 Island
3 Darkslick Shores
3 River of Tears
3 Swamp
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Damnation
1 Witchbane Orb
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Defense Grid
2 Spell Snare
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Torpor Orb
2 Extirpate
2 Vendilion Clique
No 2 CMC spot removal was a mistake I fixed later, also this was pre Polluted Delta and Hangarback.
One of the things Hoogland said is he didn't like Thirst for Knowledge since there is already the potential for a lot of card advantage inherently through the powerful spells. I have always liked my playset of Serum Visions since I stopped using Thirst as much since it helps with that problem of those odd starting hands or helping against flood.
Also the reason I stopped using Trinket Mage is because you had to play some sub-par cards like Executioner's Capsule and things like Chalice aren't as good on turn 4. But maybe with some more early interaction it could be better, Disfigure is a great card that seems missing from his list.
Land (23)
1 Academy Ruins
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Darksteel Citadel
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Sunken Ruins
1 Swamp
1 Tolaria West
2 Watery Grave
Creature (6)
1 Hangarback Walker
2 Spellskite
2 Trinket Mage
1 Wurmcoil Engine
Artifact (14)
1 Chalice of the Void
4 Dimir Signet
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Executioner's Capsule
1 Mox Opal
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Æther Spellbomb
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Instant (5)
2 Doom Blade
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Smother
Sorcery (6)
2 Damnation
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
Creature (2)
2 Painter's Servant
Artifact (5)
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Sun Droplet
1 Torpor Orb
Instant (6)
2 Dispel
1 Doom Blade
1 Go for the Throat
2 Negate
Sorcery (2)
2 Thoughtseize
Doesn't really work well, Chalice doesn't trigger when the card is not the CMC of the Chalice charge counters, so there is no trigger to respond to if you want to adjust the number of counters. Surge Node seems good if you want more counter adding effects, the question is how many of each do you want? You really want to draw Day's Undoing and Tezzeret with the deck, so I think more card draw is in order, 4x Thoughtcast seems like an easy inclusion.
The deck seems silly and fun to goof around with, but does it do anything better than regular Affinity? If Day's Undoing is the focus, how does the deck do if it doesn't draw it?
3 Mana sacrifice is very sub-par as is 2 mana bounce, especially against any aggro deck. Also if they have already cast a processor and a Newlamog, they got value off the first and killed two of your permanents, now you bounced a processor so they get to cast it again for more value . For Tron killing a Wurmcoil Engine is not exciting and if they are casting an Emrakul, the game isn't going well.
Adding answers against Tron / Eldrazi I think is the wrong way to go, you will never be able to go over them. You either have to just be fast enough to get under them, or have a clock + land disruption.
As for silly cards against them (that I wouldn't actually run, but like thinking about it), I like Bribery, Commandeer, or Hit // Run
In most cases, I will not play a Cloister before I have an Ensnaring Bridge on board or I'm practically hellbent anyway, and once I have a Bridge, feel free to Thoughtseize away, I don't need anything else. Cloister is really a support card that is kinda sweet.
2nd fact is that I think once they get Matter Reshaper and Thought-Knot Seer, they will be low on processors anyway.
Let us bow down to our new B/x Eldrazi overlords.
I'm leaning towards Gabriel Nassif's Bridge deck at this point, or as I like to call it Turbo Bridges. It is a bit speculative, but I think B/x Eldrazi is going to be the #1 deck in OGW, the number of new upgrades they get is actually silly, followed by #2 Affinity as it has a good matchup against Eldrazi. I think Turbo Bridges is in a good place to beat Eldrazi decks and it can side in a bunch of Stony Silences.
EDIT:
Here is my Turbo Bridges build, tweaked from Nassif's base, added a Tar Pit, down to 3 Lilianas (might be a mistake, but I've always liked 3), several sideboard changes.
1 Academy Ruins
1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Darkslick Shores
2 Flooded Strand
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
3 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Watery Grave
4 Meddling Mage
4 Spellskite
Artifact (10)
2 Bottled Cloister
4 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Talisman of Dominance
Planeswalker (9)
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Tezzeret the Seeker
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Instant (2)
2 Smother
Sorcery (8)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Peace Strider
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
4 Stony Silence
3 Disfigure
1 Tribute to Hunger
2 Thoughtseize
Honestly the "Blue Jund" style with Jace shined in grindy matchups, you cannot grind against Tron or Eldrazi. I'm not even sure you want to play mini Jace and I think maindeck Fulminator Mages are a must now, Tron's biggest enemy is dead and we have a new fast mana deck around. This is obviously speculative and theorycrafting on my part, so take it as you will.
One more thing to mention in the mana is Ghost Quarter can fetch basics with Darksteel Citadel, something a lot of newer people to the deck can miss and pops up more often than you would think.
As for me I'm goofing around with the Bottled Cloister idea, and I think the Turbo Bridges deck can have a great matchup against B/x Eldrazi, the one version I lost to was the Heartless Summoning version, which runs 4 Newlamogs instead of 2, and the opponent had to cast all 4 to beat me in Game 3. As for the Cloister, it would actually be amazing with Sea Gate Wreckage as you can always activate on your opponent's turn. You also only cast the card once you have stabilized, so it is kind of in the same slot that Thopter Spy Network would be.
After playing with only UB I can see why he was running Meddling Mage, you name their answer to Bridge and slowly keep locking them out of the game. If I had Meddling Mage I absolutely would have crushed the Eldrazi player.
I thought about it a little bit and figured Bottled Cloister would suck against Eldrazi, but if you can just stop Ulamog you don't really care if they process anything out of your Cloister "hand", just don't play Cloister until you resolve Bridge. The other good thing is that even post board they actually have 0 answers besides Ulamog to a resolved Bridge. So bridge is actually amazing in the matchup even post board.
The other thing I want to do is have 3-4 Ensoul Artifact for a direct swap of Bridge in the board for matchups where they will have answers, ideally to be played on Darksteels where their artifact removal won't matter.
I've actually really enjoyed Grixis Control, but if Bx Eldrazi keeps getting more popular, a Bridge build will be a great attack on the metagame. I also love the swap to Stony Silence post board since Ancient Grudge out of Affinity is a ridiculous back breaker.
Think I'm gonna fool around with a UBw build.
EDIT: On second thought, it is really Meddling Mage that he is banking on for white, maybe its just back to basics in UB + Bridge is the plan.