I've been a long time observer of Pauper, but having a Macintosh kind of stopped me from ever really playing. But now I have a Windows and have been jamming a lot of the format. And mainly I have been jamming UG Madness for the past three or so months.
I love this deck so much. Although I could play top tier decks like MonoU Delver etc. for the tempo experience, there is nothing quite like Mongrels and Madness cards. My current list is:
Sideboard: (15)
3 Natural State
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spreading Seas
2 Waterfront Bouncer
2 Gut Shot
2 Pulse of Murasa
2 Aerial Volley
The typical Madness core is a given, but there's a few thing I'd like opinions on:
- I know a lot of you have discussed Study's problems, and I too have experienced the dead Study topdecks. At the same time, I always feel its very powerful in your opener (obv. particularly with Rootwalla), but also because Logic can be very difficult to turn on at times, with only Ponder or Wilds as turn one plays which can make turn three Logics valuable.
- Mandrills has been great, despite his occasional non-bo with Logic (but it hasn't been too much of an issue) but at the same time I'm open to other threats. Probably the one I've considered most is Stitched Drake, actually, since the deck is sorely lacking evasive creatures to close out the game. I guess Stormbound Geist is also something.
- The split of 2 DA and 1 Gush as card drawers has felt perfect to me. I only really like one Gush at the moment, as sometimes it is difficult to get two Islands.
- I've really been adoring Snaps - the card is a Pauper staple for a reason - and after trying things such as Aether Burst, Vapor Snag etc. (though I have yet to try Just the Wind) I'm really set on Snap being the best card for the job. Being a "counterspell" against removal at times while being mana-neutral has felt very impressive.
- Piracy Charm is my cute fun-of, but its been surprisingly okay. The deck struggles with swarm creature strategies (Elves, Goblins etc.) and having a main deck way to kill those (as well as kill a t1 Delver) has been quite functional. It also again can situationally let us break through boardstalls (again, the deck really needs some evasion) or be a bad discard outlet in a pinch.
- The sideboard is the biggest problem I've found. Mainly the slots involving Natural State. I've tried Gleeful Sabotage and was somewhat underwhelmed by it in the Affinity matchup (which has felt very hard for me), and instead I've gone towards the plan of "Stone Rain them out of the game before they can set up their engine". The instant-speed nature of State, as well as its singular green mana cost, has also always impressed me due to how instant-speed fits in with our tempo plan, as does being very cheap.
- 20 lands. I ran 21 before, but found myself having a few too many excess lands to pitch to Mongrel at times. I'm open to how to construct the mana base though. I feel only three Wilds is good so that we don't stumble too much (and of course fuels Logic, Mandrills and is a shuffle effect for Ponder), and I know a critical amount of Islands is needed for Gush and also just being able to cast Aquamoeba + Logic in the same turn.
Anyway, would love to hear everyone's thoughts. I'll be fighting hard to get UG Madness a 5-0 in the Leagues.
Thanks so much for all the reccomendations guys. Really appreciate it!
In terms of gravehate, I think for now, I'll go with the Faerie. I have tried her and she's seemed okay, but I guess I just haven't experienced those kind of 'wow' moments with her that you have Pope. Then again, I haven't experienced really anything from Leyline of the Void, so I guess the Faerie's a step up. Jund Charm seems great too; but its mana intensiveness will probably mean I'll try it once I get some Verdant Catacombs (which I definitely will).
I've actually found Shriekmaw to be quite good against what I've played so far; especially when I have to start hardcasting, the Fear has actually been quite relevant. However, strangely, I haven't played any Affinity yet (I've been playing mainly on Cockatrice), but I have the Ingot Chewers in the board with the matchup in mind...but I guess they're a bit slow compared to how Affinity can just drop its hand.
One thing that irks me about Dismember, as much as I love the card, is the fact that I'll need Faeries to ensure that the creature doesn't come back, while Shriekmaw doesn't. Has this been problematic at all?
I'll admit - I am probably just being a bit fickle when it comes to the Ricochet Trap, but I guess the 'play around' approach to control is half the fun of the matchup, and Ricochet Trap feels like cheating. Nonetheless, I think you're right about my mindset, in that I should be open to trying it.
I've found Fulminator, or land destruction in general, to be integral to this approach; I typically board in the Avalanche Riders, and a T3 Fulminator then a T4 Riders can be pretty backbreaking for them and gives me lots of room to overload their mana and finally get in a Living End.
And the more we talk about Sin Collector, the more appealing it becomes...definitely another thing for me to consider post-Catacombs.
So, the changes I'd make to your deck look like this...
Mainboard:
-1 Demonic Dread
-1 Jungle Weaver
-1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (you should run one of these at most, at least until the M14 rules kick in. Even then, meh)
+3 Faerie Macabre
Sideboard:
-3 Leyline of the Void
-3 Shriekmaw
+3 Sin Collector/Ricochet Trap
+3 Dismember
If you don't like Dismember, another Gnaw to the Bone can't hurt. You have to get those life gain cards quick when it's possible you'll be getting killed at early as turns 3 and 4. Would still suggest 2 Dismember.
Seems pretty sound; only thing that I can query is the removal of one Demonic Dread. I've always loved having all 8 cascaders, and it's always come in handy to have multiples in hand, especially against the hand disruption of Jund as well as control. With 7 have you ever ended up a bit cascade light?
Once again, thanks so much for everything guys, really opens my eyes to how the deck operates and how my list can be improved.
Hey all,
I'm looking to play Living End in a Modern tourney happening at my LGS in a few days. I've gotten in a fair amount of practice with the deck so far, but I'm still not completely set on certain card choices in my deck. Some recommendations would be great.
The inclusion of Urborg has been good; nothing really game-changing, but nonetheless hasn't hindered the decks performance.
Main concerns I have is with the sideboard; in particular, Leyline of the Void, which I feel hasn't been pulling its weight so far.
In a matchup with my friends Martyr-Proc, I boarded in both my Leylines (don't want Martyrs coming back thanks to LE) AND Shriekmaws (don't wanna get bashed by big Serra Ascendants), which resulted in my Shriekmaw having to target one of my own creatures once Living End came around... Furthermore, I haven't seen it enough in my opening hands that I've really been able reap its benefits so far (and I don't want to be mulling heavily just for it).
I'm considering Faerie Macabre for this position - what's everyone else's experience with either of these?
Also, control, to be expected, has been a pretty difficult matchup - I guess mainly because I refuse to dedicate sideboard slots to Ricochet Trap, since to me, at least, it seems a bit too reactive. Travis Woo (http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/woo-brews-around-the-web/) has recently talked about Sin Collector, which seems like interesting tech against control, but seems a bit awkward too, since:
a) It occupies the three drop spot, where one of our best anti-control measures in Fulminator Mage is.
b) It doesn't sacrifice itself.
c) I'm afraid whether or not the manabase can accomodate it (I at least, have not seen too many opening hands with a white source, but I gues Abom or Recluse and fetches could help...)
Opinions?
Nope. You typically never have more than 4 lands when you combo off. Koth doesn't gives you back more mana than it costs to cast him. Not to mention, some of those lands may be Islands or Shivan Reefs.
If you're looking for mana storage (something like T3 Koth, T4 -2 and combo off), we already have Goblin Electromancer filling that role.
Ok, thanks for explaining. Indeed, I was thinking that the lack of Mountains would be problematic.
Hi guys, I've been interested in building this deck for awhile and have it almost finished, but I wanted to ask a question; forgive me if it seems a bit silly, as I haven't had a chance to pilot the deck to date.
But with the new legend rules change, would Koth of the Hammer be a viable choice in this deck? His -2 ability would be able to net a sizeable amount of mana, and we could then play another Koth, saccing the old one, and net us more mana again... It seems a bit situational I suppose, but I was just interested in whether it warranted any kind of discussion.
Warren Weirding has always seemed like it could be useful to me. I'm guessing you usually use it to sac a Warmarshal, token or used Bushwhacker, but what interests me is how often have you used it Edict-style to get the opponent to sac a potential blocker against us? Seems like it would be good against certain hexproof creatures (unlike a Lightning Bolt...... >__>).
Aether Vial, from what I can gather, is for higher-curve builds which aim to exploit it and Warren Instigator to throw down Lords, Krenko and Siege-Gang Commander and win off that, rather than a horde of one-drops that the recently posted lists are trying to win with.
And Cavern of Souls is excluded from my list because I don't have any at the moment (though I'm looking to grab two from somewhere) but seems like a pretty good two-of to ensure that Loyalist or Chieftain doesn't get countered when going for the alpha, but is bad when you need to finish with Grenades or Bolts. I question the lack of them from most of the recent lists as well though.
I would cut Mad Auntie, she is usefull in EDH. But for Modern she hasn't lived up to the expectation for me.
I agree, usually when I play her I'd just prefer a Chieftain anyway. I'll probably switch her out on your recommendation. Does she have a place anywhere though...? Perhaps the board? I'm not sure how she'd be applicable though.
Why I would include Raid Bombardment is that most of the time my Goblin Chieftain gets exiled, killed, ... So I'm left with a few small creatures which can't get through the defence of the others.
I can imagine staring down a horde of creatures and just swinging into them with five or so 1/1s...and then the opponent takes around 5 or 6 damage thanks to Raid Bombardment and you have an empty board :/. It seems a bit too slow, perhaps if Raid Bombardment dealt 2 per creature attacking it'd be feasible reach, but I think the whole reason most decks run 4-of Loyalist is so we can trample through and deal much more than Raid Bombardment would anyway... Then again, trampling through is reliant on lords or Shared Animosity - which are begging to be removed by our opponents as you said - but I think Raid Bombardment would dilute the all-in explosiveness that this deck (or at least, my build) is usually winning with. I'd love to see your list and how things fit together for you though.
The Lightning Maulers and Cacklers seem really questionable to me. I'd sooner prefer Chieftains for a haste enabler (and a pump, of course) and even if I was considering a Cackler-esque creature, I'd choose Tattermunge Maniac instead just for the fact that he's a Goblin.
What is interesting though is the Simian Spirit Guides - I used to run a Vial-less build with Simian Spirit Guides and 3-of Instigators and the starts were sometimes just explosive. I'm interested what everyone else's experience with SSG has been like.
So guys, I've been a long time lurker around these forums, and reading everyone's posts has really helped me improve my deck and my deck building skills overall.
So here's my take on Modern Goblins. Until Dragon's Maze I've been playing the usual weenie-Goblins aggro (ie. no Aether Vial) to a fair amount of success, but with the printing of Spike Jester I've splashed black to hopefully improve it.
The Jester has been absolutely great, especially paired with Legion Loyalist, making his flimsy toughness pretty much irrelevant when attacking, but I don't like the fact I've had to cut down the amount of War Marshal's to three - but it feels like the 2-drop spot would be pretty clogged if I didn't do so. There's one in the board, however, since it seems like it would be the better option against control.
On the topic of the sideboard, Rakdos Charm's versatility makes it an auto-four-of to me, but the rest of the board feels a bit messy, and some recommendations on better options would be much appreciated. The Terminates are naturally for creature-based decks (aggro and midrange), Duresses and extra Earwig Squad for combo, and the two Rain of Gores for the lifegain decks which have felt like an absolute uphill battle game one.
Another card I'm not completely satisfied with is Mad Auntie. Although her effect seems quite powerful, I question how it fits in with my more all-in build... What's everyone's opinion of her?
What do you guys think of Raid Bombardment? Usable? Quick enough?
Raid Bombardment seems a bit counter-intuitive to me, considering that we're trying to pump our creatures as far above their initial power as we can using our anthem effects, and thus they won't always trigger the power two or less requirement. I'd prefer Shared Animosity as my three mana enchantment of choice; I've swung with all my golbins for more than twenty thanks to it, and is made even better if you're running Legion Loyalist.
Hi all, long time lurker from Australia here finally deciding to get an account and start contributing.
My history with Magic began when I'd just entered high school, the first product I bought being an Izzet theme deck. After that, I was hooked, buying as many of the newest boosters (Guildpact) as I possibly could, as well some fat packs and any other random products I could find. This was despite me not even having anyone to play with yet, other than friends who I tried to get into game, but in vain. My first venture into organized play was at a Lorwyn prerelease, and although I've stopped and started keeping up with Magic within the last few years, I've always eventually returned to this beloved card game
At current I play Rb Goblins in Modern, and RDW in Standard (yes, I am a pretty devout red player) and look forward to talking with everyone!
I've been a long time observer of Pauper, but having a Macintosh kind of stopped me from ever really playing. But now I have a Windows and have been jamming a lot of the format. And mainly I have been jamming UG Madness for the past three or so months.
I love this deck so much. Although I could play top tier decks like MonoU Delver etc. for the tempo experience, there is nothing quite like Mongrels and Madness cards. My current list is:
Creatures: (18)
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Aquamoeba
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Arrogant Wurm
2 Hooting Mandrills
Non-Creature Spells: (22)
4 Ponder
3 Careful Study
4 Circular Logic
3 Daze
4 Snap
1 Piracy Charm
2 Deep Analysis
1 Gush
Lands: (20)
3 Evolving Wilds
10 Island
7 Forest
Sideboard: (15)
3 Natural State
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spreading Seas
2 Waterfront Bouncer
2 Gut Shot
2 Pulse of Murasa
2 Aerial Volley
The typical Madness core is a given, but there's a few thing I'd like opinions on:
- I know a lot of you have discussed Study's problems, and I too have experienced the dead Study topdecks. At the same time, I always feel its very powerful in your opener (obv. particularly with Rootwalla), but also because Logic can be very difficult to turn on at times, with only Ponder or Wilds as turn one plays which can make turn three Logics valuable.
- Mandrills has been great, despite his occasional non-bo with Logic (but it hasn't been too much of an issue) but at the same time I'm open to other threats. Probably the one I've considered most is Stitched Drake, actually, since the deck is sorely lacking evasive creatures to close out the game. I guess Stormbound Geist is also something.
- The split of 2 DA and 1 Gush as card drawers has felt perfect to me. I only really like one Gush at the moment, as sometimes it is difficult to get two Islands.
- I've really been adoring Snaps - the card is a Pauper staple for a reason - and after trying things such as Aether Burst, Vapor Snag etc. (though I have yet to try Just the Wind) I'm really set on Snap being the best card for the job. Being a "counterspell" against removal at times while being mana-neutral has felt very impressive.
- Piracy Charm is my cute fun-of, but its been surprisingly okay. The deck struggles with swarm creature strategies (Elves, Goblins etc.) and having a main deck way to kill those (as well as kill a t1 Delver) has been quite functional. It also again can situationally let us break through boardstalls (again, the deck really needs some evasion) or be a bad discard outlet in a pinch.
- The sideboard is the biggest problem I've found. Mainly the slots involving Natural State. I've tried Gleeful Sabotage and was somewhat underwhelmed by it in the Affinity matchup (which has felt very hard for me), and instead I've gone towards the plan of "Stone Rain them out of the game before they can set up their engine". The instant-speed nature of State, as well as its singular green mana cost, has also always impressed me due to how instant-speed fits in with our tempo plan, as does being very cheap.
- 20 lands. I ran 21 before, but found myself having a few too many excess lands to pitch to Mongrel at times. I'm open to how to construct the mana base though. I feel only three Wilds is good so that we don't stumble too much (and of course fuels Logic, Mandrills and is a shuffle effect for Ponder), and I know a critical amount of Islands is needed for Gush and also just being able to cast Aquamoeba + Logic in the same turn.
Anyway, would love to hear everyone's thoughts. I'll be fighting hard to get UG Madness a 5-0 in the Leagues.
In terms of gravehate, I think for now, I'll go with the Faerie. I have tried her and she's seemed okay, but I guess I just haven't experienced those kind of 'wow' moments with her that you have Pope. Then again, I haven't experienced really anything from Leyline of the Void, so I guess the Faerie's a step up. Jund Charm seems great too; but its mana intensiveness will probably mean I'll try it once I get some Verdant Catacombs (which I definitely will).
I've actually found Shriekmaw to be quite good against what I've played so far; especially when I have to start hardcasting, the Fear has actually been quite relevant. However, strangely, I haven't played any Affinity yet (I've been playing mainly on Cockatrice), but I have the Ingot Chewers in the board with the matchup in mind...but I guess they're a bit slow compared to how Affinity can just drop its hand.
One thing that irks me about Dismember, as much as I love the card, is the fact that I'll need Faeries to ensure that the creature doesn't come back, while Shriekmaw doesn't. Has this been problematic at all?
I'll admit - I am probably just being a bit fickle when it comes to the Ricochet Trap, but I guess the 'play around' approach to control is half the fun of the matchup, and Ricochet Trap feels like cheating.
I've found Fulminator, or land destruction in general, to be integral to this approach; I typically board in the Avalanche Riders, and a T3 Fulminator then a T4 Riders can be pretty backbreaking for them and gives me lots of room to overload their mana and finally get in a Living End.
And the more we talk about Sin Collector, the more appealing it becomes...definitely another thing for me to consider post-Catacombs.
Seems pretty sound; only thing that I can query is the removal of one Demonic Dread. I've always loved having all 8 cascaders, and it's always come in handy to have multiples in hand, especially against the hand disruption of Jund as well as control. With 7 have you ever ended up a bit cascade light?
Once again, thanks so much for everything guys, really opens my eyes to how the deck operates and how my list can be improved.
I'm looking to play Living End in a Modern tourney happening at my LGS in a few days. I've gotten in a fair amount of practice with the deck so far, but I'm still not completely set on certain card choices in my deck. Some recommendations would be great.
Here's my list:
4 Street Wraith
4 Monstrous Carabid
4 Deadshot Minotaur
4 Pale Recluse
4 Fulminator Mage
3 Jungle Weaver
2 Twisted Abomination
Non-Creature Spells: (15)
3 Living End
4 Violent Outburst
4 Demonic Dread
4 Beast Within
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Copperline Gorge
2 Blood Crypt
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
3 Ingot Chewer
3 Leyline of the Void
3 Shriekmaw
2 Avalanche Riders
2 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Slaughter Games
Notably, no Catacombs (yet).
The inclusion of Urborg has been good; nothing really game-changing, but nonetheless hasn't hindered the decks performance.
Main concerns I have is with the sideboard; in particular, Leyline of the Void, which I feel hasn't been pulling its weight so far.
In a matchup with my friends Martyr-Proc, I boarded in both my Leylines (don't want Martyrs coming back thanks to LE) AND Shriekmaws (don't wanna get bashed by big Serra Ascendants), which resulted in my Shriekmaw having to target one of my own creatures once Living End came around... Furthermore, I haven't seen it enough in my opening hands that I've really been able reap its benefits so far (and I don't want to be mulling heavily just for it).
I'm considering Faerie Macabre for this position - what's everyone else's experience with either of these?
Also, control, to be expected, has been a pretty difficult matchup - I guess mainly because I refuse to dedicate sideboard slots to Ricochet Trap, since to me, at least, it seems a bit too reactive. Travis Woo (http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/woo-brews-around-the-web/) has recently talked about Sin Collector, which seems like interesting tech against control, but seems a bit awkward too, since:
a) It occupies the three drop spot, where one of our best anti-control measures in Fulminator Mage is.
b) It doesn't sacrifice itself.
c) I'm afraid whether or not the manabase can accomodate it (I at least, have not seen too many opening hands with a white source, but I gues Abom or Recluse and fetches could help...)
Opinions?
Ok, thanks for explaining.
But with the new legend rules change, would Koth of the Hammer be a viable choice in this deck? His -2 ability would be able to net a sizeable amount of mana, and we could then play another Koth, saccing the old one, and net us more mana again... It seems a bit situational I suppose, but I was just interested in whether it warranted any kind of discussion.
Warren Weirding has always seemed like it could be useful to me. I'm guessing you usually use it to sac a Warmarshal, token or used Bushwhacker, but what interests me is how often have you used it Edict-style to get the opponent to sac a potential blocker against us? Seems like it would be good against certain hexproof creatures (unlike a Lightning Bolt...... >__>).
Aether Vial, from what I can gather, is for higher-curve builds which aim to exploit it and Warren Instigator to throw down Lords, Krenko and Siege-Gang Commander and win off that, rather than a horde of one-drops that the recently posted lists are trying to win with.
And Cavern of Souls is excluded from my list because I don't have any at the moment (though I'm looking to grab two from somewhere) but seems like a pretty good two-of to ensure that Loyalist or Chieftain doesn't get countered when going for the alpha, but is bad when you need to finish with Grenades or Bolts. I question the lack of them from most of the recent lists as well though.
I agree, usually when I play her I'd just prefer a Chieftain anyway. I'll probably switch her out on your recommendation.
I can imagine staring down a horde of creatures and just swinging into them with five or so 1/1s...and then the opponent takes around 5 or 6 damage thanks to Raid Bombardment and you have an empty board :/. It seems a bit too slow, perhaps if Raid Bombardment dealt 2 per creature attacking it'd be feasible reach, but I think the whole reason most decks run 4-of Loyalist is so we can trample through and deal much more than Raid Bombardment would anyway... Then again, trampling through is reliant on lords or Shared Animosity - which are begging to be removed by our opponents as you said - but I think Raid Bombardment would dilute the all-in explosiveness that this deck (or at least, my build) is usually winning with. I'd love to see your list and how things fit together for you though.
The Lightning Maulers and Cacklers seem really questionable to me. I'd sooner prefer Chieftains for a haste enabler (and a pump, of course) and even if I was considering a Cackler-esque creature, I'd choose Tattermunge Maniac instead just for the fact that he's a Goblin.
What is interesting though is the Simian Spirit Guides - I used to run a Vial-less build with Simian Spirit Guides and 3-of Instigators and the starts were sometimes just explosive. I'm interested what everyone else's experience with SSG has been like.
So here's my take on Modern Goblins. Until Dragon's Maze I've been playing the usual weenie-Goblins aggro (ie. no Aether Vial) to a fair amount of success, but with the printing of Spike Jester I've splashed black to hopefully improve it.
4 Goblin Guide
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Foundry Street Denizen
4 Spike Jester
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
3 Mogg War Marshal
3 Goblin Chieftain
2 Earwig Squad
1 Mad Auntie
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Goblin Grenade
3 Shared Animosity
Lands (21)
4 Blood Crypt
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Auntie's Hovel
2 Teetering Peaks
7 Mountain
4 Rakdos Charm
4 Terminate
3 Duress
1 Earwig Squad
1 Mogg War Marshal
2 Rain of Gore
The Jester has been absolutely great, especially paired with Legion Loyalist, making his flimsy toughness pretty much irrelevant when attacking, but I don't like the fact I've had to cut down the amount of War Marshal's to three - but it feels like the 2-drop spot would be pretty clogged if I didn't do so. There's one in the board, however, since it seems like it would be the better option against control.
On the topic of the sideboard, Rakdos Charm's versatility makes it an auto-four-of to me, but the rest of the board feels a bit messy, and some recommendations on better options would be much appreciated. The Terminates are naturally for creature-based decks (aggro and midrange), Duresses and extra Earwig Squad for combo, and the two Rain of Gores for the lifegain decks which have felt like an absolute uphill battle game one.
Another card I'm not completely satisfied with is Mad Auntie. Although her effect seems quite powerful, I question how it fits in with my more all-in build... What's everyone's opinion of her?
Raid Bombardment seems a bit counter-intuitive to me, considering that we're trying to pump our creatures as far above their initial power as we can using our anthem effects, and thus they won't always trigger the power two or less requirement. I'd prefer Shared Animosity as my three mana enchantment of choice; I've swung with all my golbins for more than twenty thanks to it, and is made even better if you're running Legion Loyalist.
My history with Magic began when I'd just entered high school, the first product I bought being an Izzet theme deck. After that, I was hooked, buying as many of the newest boosters (Guildpact) as I possibly could, as well some fat packs and any other random products I could find. This was despite me not even having anyone to play with yet, other than friends who I tried to get into game, but in vain. My first venture into organized play was at a Lorwyn prerelease, and although I've stopped and started keeping up with Magic within the last few years, I've always eventually returned to this beloved card game
At current I play Rb Goblins in Modern, and RDW in Standard (yes, I am a pretty devout red player) and look forward to talking with everyone!