Even though Jaya has way more old school coolness, she would've likely turned out to be just another Chandra.
This hurts my heart a little.
Quote from Manite » »
For those complaining about this not being Slobad, I have two questions: 1) How long was Slobad a Planeswalker, exactly, and 2) did he do any Planeswalking? I'm pretty sure he didn't have his spark that long nor did he do any actual planeswalking unless I'm forgetting some part of the story. I understand why players would feel attached to Slobad; he was the second Goblin after Squee to be portrayed as a heroic character and in Slobad's case, the first true "smart" goblin, though there were some artificer Goblins beforehand like Goblin Tinkerer and Goblin Welder (both of which can be reprinted, I just checked the list). Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer could still be included in this deck and is more likely to be thanks to the artifice theme.
I won't complain about it, but those are precisely the reasons why we would have loved for him to get a pw card. He's not just a character who *wasn't* a functional planeswalker, he's a character who *could have been* a great red 'walker and traded that away without thought or remorse to do what he felt was right and to help his friends. His story was admirable and endearing, and it leaves us wondering what kind of career he would have had hopping across the multiverse as Goblin MacGyver. It certainly would have been a touching call-back to give him a "what if" card in a supplemental product to scratch that itch, and might have provided just a little fan-compensation for his tragic life and meaningless death (which are part of why his story works, and shouldn't be undone in canon.)
Also, he's not just memorable for being the potential red goblin planeswalker that didn't happen, there's a case to be made that Slobad could have been a great ambassador/face for the color red. Maro has mentioned many times that creative is looking for ways to showcase more of red's philosophy on cards, but is limited by the combat-centric nature of the game and what it allows to be expressed through mechanics. As a character, Slobad represents red's take on other colors' primary concerns very well, and some of these differences could be shown mechanically:
Blue: He's certainly smart enough that he can't be framed as either envious or ignorant, which seems to happen to red a lot, but his intelligence is intuitive and unlike blue's methodical and aloof styling. He's into mental challenge because he finds it interesting and he has a knack for it, not because he values learning as a status-signifier. Even when he's set apart (and exiled!) for his mental aptitude, he doesn't respond by feeling his intelligence should automatically grant him a position of authority or privilege anywhere. He does potentially have enough blue in him to justify multicolor depending on how his character would have developed, however. This can be expressed mechanically within red's slice of the pie through interaction with artifacts.
White: He sacrifices his spark to save his friends, so he can't be slurred as an uncaring barbarian. He's motivated to do what he feels is right, but this is primarily driven by concern and not ideology. He obviously cares about the survival and well-being of Mirran society at large, but he has been hurt (and enslaved!) by group-think-y communities, so he probably doesn't care much for rules and stratified social structures (he ends up exiling himself, but this is more for his own good and not about preserving social order.) This can be expressed mechanically within red's slice of the pie through self-sac effects.
Green: He has lived as a hermit in the wilderness and accepted his true nature, so green can't say that he's brainwashed or coddled by "civilised" living, but that said he doesn't expect or attempt to be happy and at peace with his inner self. He doesn't believe that all of his impulses and feelings can ever be reconciled; he is who he is, but he *suffers* for it. No idea how this could be expressed mechanically, really.
Black: He's a survivor, willing to tough out and escape enslavement(!) and scavenge for sustenance, but he doesn't really have any of the classical black impulses. He could have translated his skill with machines into influence (and revenge) somehow if he had really cared to do so. Of all the colors, Slobad is probably furthest from black. There still might be some place to find mechanical nuance, but I'm not entirely sure where (artifact-based looting?)
Anyway, I'm glad to see that Palliano stuck, but it would have been awesome to get Slobad. It's not like there aren't reasons people still talk about him.
Sorry to post a second time, but I think my original comment is likely never to be read again when this thread rolls over onto a new page.
Could my name please be changed to "Swithin"? I'm not sure if what happened is entirely clear from my first post, but "Swithin" is my desired name. Someone fixed it for me without leaving a message (my first "thank you" was to that anonymous mod,) but since it wasn't marked as fixed it accidentally got changed back to the incorrect version.
Again, sorry to make a fuss, and thank you very much!
Got it, not sure what happened but let me know if there are any other issues in the future. -ISB
I forgot speculate on why Erebos might want an ascended spark. We've been told that some of the other deities are aware of the multiverse, but that they cannot planeswalk. If we assume that Erebos knows about other planes (and it makes sense that he would, as he's apparently removing and perusing the memories of every mortal who dies,) possessing a mortal spark might not be enough to let him reach beyond Theros. An ascended spark might be worth trying instead. Plus, it would be cool symmetry: turn a planeswalker into a god to enable a god to become a planeswalker.
Okay, should we be assuming that Elspeth's soul is "the prize"? Let's say Elspeth dies - Erebos probably gets a non-Theran soul (sparked, no less,) out of the deal. Why care? She's Heliod's Champion, so it's not like the pantheon won't notice - in fact, Heliod has probably cut a deal about "immortalizing" his Champions in constellations or whatnot. Even if he gets to keep her, it's just one more soul - and we know that Therans can be born with a spark, so it's not like he doesn't have countless other planeswalkers in his collection.
On the other hand... let's say Xenagos dies (which is kind of everybody's intent right now.) It's an assumption to say that the other deities don't have souls, but it's consistent with the rest of the faith-based constructs in the MTG multiverse (angels, illusions, etc.) Xenagos, on the other hand, is confirmed to have retained his spark post-ascension. He is a god with a soul! This is something new and, for some inexplicable reason, all the other gods want to kill him and be rid of him - they *want* to give his planeswalking-godsoul to Erebos!
What I'm seeing here is a very long con, and the end-game will probably involve what happened to the last RG deity. My guess is that that deity still exists, somehow imprisoned by Erebos. As faith for the god disappeared, his or her power diminished, creating a vacancy in the pantheon. Then after a long process of subtly manipulating events to incite a mortal to ascend and seeding hostility among the other gods for the "upstart", Erebos can sit back and sip on his mimosa while the rest of Theros and Nyx rush to give him *exactly* what he wants. At the end he can reluctantly agree to take custody of the soul so long as everyone remembers what a favor he's doing for them. Profit!
Of course, if that were the case Elspeth would foil the entire plan and release the original RG god (by journeying into Nyx,) Xenagos would be unthroned and escape into the multiverse seething, and Erebos will be chastened. At the end of the day everyone will just shrug because no-one else wants his job and it's his role as the black-mana god to do stuff like this every now and then.
Or it could be something else entirely, like all the gods having started off as planeswalkers (Kruphix is Urza's head, calling it now!)
Hello! Could my name please be changed to "Swithin" from "Swithi"?
edit: Thank you very much!
Done -ISB
edit 2: Something funny has happened. When originally entering my name, somehow the "n" at the end was dropped (hence the request.) About two hours ago I got a pop-up prompting me to change my name, which I did (to "Swithin",) but no-one took credit for causing that.
Anyway, thanks for responding to my request ISB, but you actually set my name back to the typo version. I hate to ask a second time, but I swear once my name is properly "Swithin" I will never again ask for a name-change.
This hurts my heart a little.
I won't complain about it, but those are precisely the reasons why we would have loved for him to get a pw card. He's not just a character who *wasn't* a functional planeswalker, he's a character who *could have been* a great red 'walker and traded that away without thought or remorse to do what he felt was right and to help his friends. His story was admirable and endearing, and it leaves us wondering what kind of career he would have had hopping across the multiverse as Goblin MacGyver. It certainly would have been a touching call-back to give him a "what if" card in a supplemental product to scratch that itch, and might have provided just a little fan-compensation for his tragic life and meaningless death (which are part of why his story works, and shouldn't be undone in canon.)
Also, he's not just memorable for being the potential red goblin planeswalker that didn't happen, there's a case to be made that Slobad could have been a great ambassador/face for the color red. Maro has mentioned many times that creative is looking for ways to showcase more of red's philosophy on cards, but is limited by the combat-centric nature of the game and what it allows to be expressed through mechanics. As a character, Slobad represents red's take on other colors' primary concerns very well, and some of these differences could be shown mechanically:
Blue: He's certainly smart enough that he can't be framed as either envious or ignorant, which seems to happen to red a lot, but his intelligence is intuitive and unlike blue's methodical and aloof styling. He's into mental challenge because he finds it interesting and he has a knack for it, not because he values learning as a status-signifier. Even when he's set apart (and exiled!) for his mental aptitude, he doesn't respond by feeling his intelligence should automatically grant him a position of authority or privilege anywhere. He does potentially have enough blue in him to justify multicolor depending on how his character would have developed, however. This can be expressed mechanically within red's slice of the pie through interaction with artifacts.
White: He sacrifices his spark to save his friends, so he can't be slurred as an uncaring barbarian. He's motivated to do what he feels is right, but this is primarily driven by concern and not ideology. He obviously cares about the survival and well-being of Mirran society at large, but he has been hurt (and enslaved!) by group-think-y communities, so he probably doesn't care much for rules and stratified social structures (he ends up exiling himself, but this is more for his own good and not about preserving social order.) This can be expressed mechanically within red's slice of the pie through self-sac effects.
Green: He has lived as a hermit in the wilderness and accepted his true nature, so green can't say that he's brainwashed or coddled by "civilised" living, but that said he doesn't expect or attempt to be happy and at peace with his inner self. He doesn't believe that all of his impulses and feelings can ever be reconciled; he is who he is, but he *suffers* for it. No idea how this could be expressed mechanically, really.
Black: He's a survivor, willing to tough out and escape enslavement(!) and scavenge for sustenance, but he doesn't really have any of the classical black impulses. He could have translated his skill with machines into influence (and revenge) somehow if he had really cared to do so. Of all the colors, Slobad is probably furthest from black. There still might be some place to find mechanical nuance, but I'm not entirely sure where (artifact-based looting?)
Anyway, I'm glad to see that Palliano stuck, but it would have been awesome to get Slobad. It's not like there aren't reasons people still talk about him.
Could my name please be changed to "Swithin"? I'm not sure if what happened is entirely clear from my first post, but "Swithin" is my desired name. Someone fixed it for me without leaving a message (my first "thank you" was to that anonymous mod,) but since it wasn't marked as fixed it accidentally got changed back to the incorrect version.
Again, sorry to make a fuss, and thank you very much!
Got it, not sure what happened but let me know if there are any other issues in the future. -ISB
Edit - Thanks ISB! That was almost instantaneous.
I forgot speculate on why Erebos might want an ascended spark. We've been told that some of the other deities are aware of the multiverse, but that they cannot planeswalk. If we assume that Erebos knows about other planes (and it makes sense that he would, as he's apparently removing and perusing the memories of every mortal who dies,) possessing a mortal spark might not be enough to let him reach beyond Theros. An ascended spark might be worth trying instead. Plus, it would be cool symmetry: turn a planeswalker into a god to enable a god to become a planeswalker.
Okay, should we be assuming that Elspeth's soul is "the prize"? Let's say Elspeth dies - Erebos probably gets a non-Theran soul (sparked, no less,) out of the deal. Why care? She's Heliod's Champion, so it's not like the pantheon won't notice - in fact, Heliod has probably cut a deal about "immortalizing" his Champions in constellations or whatnot. Even if he gets to keep her, it's just one more soul - and we know that Therans can be born with a spark, so it's not like he doesn't have countless other planeswalkers in his collection.
On the other hand... let's say Xenagos dies (which is kind of everybody's intent right now.) It's an assumption to say that the other deities don't have souls, but it's consistent with the rest of the faith-based constructs in the MTG multiverse (angels, illusions, etc.) Xenagos, on the other hand, is confirmed to have retained his spark post-ascension. He is a god with a soul! This is something new and, for some inexplicable reason, all the other gods want to kill him and be rid of him - they *want* to give his planeswalking-godsoul to Erebos!
What I'm seeing here is a very long con, and the end-game will probably involve what happened to the last RG deity. My guess is that that deity still exists, somehow imprisoned by Erebos. As faith for the god disappeared, his or her power diminished, creating a vacancy in the pantheon. Then after a long process of subtly manipulating events to incite a mortal to ascend and seeding hostility among the other gods for the "upstart", Erebos can sit back and sip on his mimosa while the rest of Theros and Nyx rush to give him *exactly* what he wants. At the end he can reluctantly agree to take custody of the soul so long as everyone remembers what a favor he's doing for them. Profit!
Of course, if that were the case Elspeth would foil the entire plan and release the original RG god (by journeying into Nyx,) Xenagos would be unthroned and escape into the multiverse seething, and Erebos will be chastened. At the end of the day everyone will just shrug because no-one else wants his job and it's his role as the black-mana god to do stuff like this every now and then.
Or it could be something else entirely, like all the gods having started off as planeswalkers (Kruphix is Urza's head, calling it now!)
edit: Thank you very much!
Done -ISB
edit 2: Something funny has happened. When originally entering my name, somehow the "n" at the end was dropped (hence the request.) About two hours ago I got a pop-up prompting me to change my name, which I did (to "Swithin",) but no-one took credit for causing that.
Anyway, thanks for responding to my request ISB, but you actually set my name back to the typo version.