Really cool but not for constructed. You do not need draw power with Sphinx Rev in the format, nor a slow finisher when you have Aetherling, plus you would have to run R in your deck to play it.
And I'm curious as to why Purphoros is so awful? He seems pretty decent when I was testing and oftentimes provides some very good reach.
You can pack a bunch of dragons and mortars and you can splash white: chained to the rocks + glare of heresy + soldier of the pantheon + pacifism + banisher priest, pretty much all low cmc answers to anything G/W regardless of their size.
I don't know if you've ever played with Blessing, but every time it comes down I win the game on the spot in a situation that was previously unwinnable. Think of it as a permanent Overrun.
It would be more effective in a deck full of low cost mana producers like an Elfball, but I see a 6cc GA pumping an army of 5/5 wurms a lil bit overkill, but this is far from being a terrible pick, so its ok.
Taking out a Trostani would soften the aggro matchup significantly.
You could sideboard the 3rd if you judge it necessary for aggro. But really, Loxodons, Unflinching and creatures that are already larger than in any aggro around should be more than enough in aggro hate post SB.
Voice of Resurgence is bad in the mainboard; we've already got 8 two drops and Call of the Conclave is much, much, much better than Voice in the aggro matchup. It can't block many creatures in RDW profitably. So you're trading your 2-drop for their turn 1 Cackler? That's fine; they'll just drop two burning-trees into a firefist striker.
You would trade with their 1 drop and have a body to block the following creatures. Note that this body would be a Scion of the Wild, that can be populated.
Rootborn Defenses's populate is much more relevant than Ready's untapping.
It is just a cute combat trick to do when you have a Trostani out (double populate) or want to attack and block later on. Nothing against a Rootborn taking its place tho.
And the curve is supposed to be high; that's why we're running 8 mana dorks.
Mana dorks die. High curve gets countered. Slightly reducing the curve, removing land, adding all-in-one answer like VoR would not make you any weaker and give you a boost against control.
Guildgate doesn't work in this deck; the mana's good as it is and lands coming into play tapped is very relevant. I do like the idea of Grove of the Guardian, though.
I removed land and added a colorless one, more 2 drops, which is why there is a single guildgate.
-1 Armada, -1 Trostani, -1 Jugement, -1 Blessing, -1 Plains, -1 Elspeth, -2 Forest
+4 VoR, +1 Sel Charm, +1 Grove of the Guardian, +1 Ready // Willing, +1 Selesnya Guildgate
Reasons:
Curve was too high. Blessing gives you a powerful pump, however, you already have big creatures, and even if you come to cross the path of a bigger threat, the +2/+2 from charms on your creature will probably be enough to win the fight or you can just exile anything with 5+ power to begin with.
VoR will not only grant you advantage against control, but also against aggro and midrange. More blockers, lower curve, prevents instant tricks, etc.
You have a lot of strong creatures that would die to your own Elspeth - it would be a SB card for control where a bunch of 1/1s might actually do something.
Vs. mirror; RDW is actually a small favourite. Better mana, faster mana, more manlands are all super relevant. It's probably 55-45
Vs. control; RDW has a 55-45 control matchup; Boros would probably be closer to 60-40 because of charm/initiative (but you do lose manlands).
Vs. midrange; I don't know where this argument that RDW is bad against GW comes from. If you're very inexperienced and aren't across all the theory, yeah, it's really bad. If you're a BTE deck, it's really bad. But if you're playing something non-linear that can shift gears it's like 60-40 favourable or better. I imagine Boros is similar (untested).
The Boros manabase is a huge detriment in the Rx semi-mirror which makes it very unspealing to me.
Playing Boros against RDW is actually really easy. Charmed Reckoners = board wipe. The secret is just to avoid straight racing RDW, playing a more conservative game. Post SB, it is even easier. Mana base issues would depend a lot on the Boros build tho (W/r, R/w, maybe even 50/50), so different builds might actually be worse against RDW as you said.
GW is being a pain tho. Recent GW builds have an incredible resistence to creature burn (rootborn, sel charm, natural big creatures), can beat/wall R/x creatures (2cc 3/3, 3cc 4/4, 4cc flash 5/5, VoR's tokens, 0/3 hexproof defenders,), life gain (Ooze, unflinching, Trostani), they can recover from quick red starts of at least 2 turns of aggression pretty well and they do not take damage from TS/shocks as 3c slower midrange lists. Luckily, it can't take out control as fast and is weaker than general midrange lists, which makes it less reliable and (I hope) it will not played as much in the near future.
I do not think Demon is a must in every RWB list, but it is far from being bad. People dismiss the card because it can't stabilize the board in certain situations, but really, it works more like a threat than a stabilizer. 4cc for a flying 6/6 is a lot even when you compare it to other midrange lists and it demands removal from control. Aggro can probably tap it to deal lethal, but if you could not manage to stabilize against aggro in a removal.deck with anger of the gods, you are doing it wrong. The format is actually more favorable for Demon now that we do not have lingering souls and Aristocrats can't use your own Demon to screw you up since it is no longer a deck.
On another note, think about the other options you have for that spot of the curve. Even Warleader's Helix is becoming less usefull now that 5+ toughness guys are everywhere, not to mention the other ones with protection from white. It would probably end up getting cut from most of the lists if the TS/RtB/Shocks didn't hurt you a lot.
I have been testing a R/W aggro variant made to be extremelly resilient, curving out in a couple Stormbreaths.
So far, control has been extremelly easy to beat. Wrath protection, fast strikers and a good SB (burning earth, hammer, more Chandra's Phoenix, etc.) are just too much for them. The aggro R/x mirror is also fairly easy, since I can exile their reckoners/phoenix, charm my reckoners and make my creatures grow bigger with Legion's Initiative.
The only problem I am facing is against G/W aggro/midrange, some of them splashing B as well. They might lack the burn, but their creatures are extremelly OP in comparison with ours (2cc 3/3 were already a pain before, let alone now that they become undestructible with hexproof), they have lifegain and even their mana ramp dudes with 0/3 can gain them some time. Advent of the Wurm has wrecked me countless times too. Is anyone having a lot of trouble on this MU?
PS: Sorry for posting details of a R/W list in RDW thread, but there are no R/W primers and RDW experience on this would help me as well
Do not replace the cacklers for the SotP. Replace Loyalists instead. You can adjust your mana base to 50/50 white/red, since your 1 drops will be 50/50 as well and the 2 dropds are R/W.
Do not MD 3 hammers in the place of your 3 drops, you can get some and SB them to use against control MUs. Try Boros Reckoner in their place instead.
Chained to the rocks is a 1 mana removal spell that can knock out any big creature that can hold you back (except for BBoV or the new dragon). Could easily be played with your mana base.
By tool, I don't mean program. It is most certainly reading material, and I am trying to include as much information as I can into it to avoid confusion, broken or unclear points, and affirm understanding. Because some people seem to struggle catching onto some of my points by my own fault of writing statements apparently lacking clarity.
Slaughter Games is narrow, often a 1 for 0 and doesn't matter against anything but Esper Control. Thoughtseize is good against any deck not running mono (or almost mono) mountains.
For the 3rd time (lol):
He is not trading one for the other. He already has 3 TS mainboard.
I honestly started to feel hate towards TS. We get that thing reprinted and not only people will include it in all lists with B without any idea of what they are doing, but it also pops up in every single page in every single Bx deck thread of this forum. I'm about to run SG myself just to play it in every game against B decks just to feel pleasure as I name freaking "TS" as the target.
I was replying to TheGrantArchitect's edit where he said he had swapped out Thoughtseize and Duress for Slaughter Games.
His bad deck list in his sig only further proves that his posts hold little value in this thread.
I'll go back to my original point: do not run Slaughter Games.
Again:
He is using Kamahl's list, which already has 3 TS main. He traded the SB discards for SG. Your reading skills also proves your points not quite valid. In a control meta I can see SG performing quite well, he has his reasons and can probably give you backup for it. Don't criticize before reading and trying to understand people's points
Edit: What makes threads like this valuable are players like Kamahl who can give backup numbers and tell you why X is not as good as Y, and even so, the math can't be applied to specific metas, so he could just be giving you a bad call, but his statements are at least based on something.
Running Slaughter Games instead of Thoughtseize and Duress? What the hell is going on here?
edit:
I also really dislike your Gruul midrange list in your sig. Too few lands, too few creatures to run 3 Domri's, strange choices for your 2-drops and only 6 cards that return Chandra's Phoenix makes it rather poor. Most lists with Phoenix have 9+ burn spells.
Kamahl's primer list has 3 TS main. He removed the TS/Duress from the side. No reason to pick on the sig list either, as it has nothing to do with what we are doing here.
Is Ember Swallower really working for the people testing it? Without his ability he is a 4/5 vanilla, whit his ability you will lose 3 of your lands (going back to 4 or more, being 4 the worst scenario since most of the bombs are 5cmc+, also making it harder to trigger Stormbreath's ability), becoming a 7/8 vanilla.
The loss of lands seems to hurt the deck itself more than I'd like, since it is blank against aggro (they don't care about many lands they might lose and if you reached 7 lands you probably got the match already), midrange might be a 50/50 but we have no ramp to make it up for the land loss and G decks usually can use better vanillas than us, making the argument of 4/5 for 4 being "ok" quite useless. Against control I see the ability being useful, but really, why would you need a big vanilla roadblock against control? You might get more use out of Exava just for the fact she connects when she lands in this MU.
The only situation where I see the card being superior than Demon is against Big Red (burn+token creation builds that can tap Demon constantly), or perhaps the mirror (only because of Baron, still not that optimal).
8 self mill options, which will fill your GY with resources to reanimate, decrease Nemesis' cost and allow Shaman to ramp. Commune also allows you to get the Whip.
4 Finishers (Lord/Giant) that have evasion and will leave resources behind (besides the 7 life) after the single hit the Whip gives you (one of their creatures or a 7/7 trample token that makes tokens as well).
6 Mid-size roadblocks (Demon and Nemesis) that can win you the game even if you do not reanimate anything.
8 mana dorks, being Shaman much more than that.
6 Reanimation spells.
4 Self-discard outlet in the form of Troll, which can also hold aggro or apply pressure on control.
I like the deck and it might be viable for FNM if people start to forget GY hate thinking reanimation is gone for good. Is this worth testing?
You can pack a bunch of dragons and mortars and you can splash white: chained to the rocks + glare of heresy + soldier of the pantheon + pacifism + banisher priest, pretty much all low cmc answers to anything G/W regardless of their size.
It would be more effective in a deck full of low cost mana producers like an Elfball, but I see a 6cc GA pumping an army of 5/5 wurms a lil bit overkill, but this is far from being a terrible pick, so its ok.
You could sideboard the 3rd if you judge it necessary for aggro. But really, Loxodons, Unflinching and creatures that are already larger than in any aggro around should be more than enough in aggro hate post SB.
You would trade with their 1 drop and have a body to block the following creatures. Note that this body would be a Scion of the Wild, that can be populated.
Yep.
It is just a cute combat trick to do when you have a Trostani out (double populate) or want to attack and block later on. Nothing against a Rootborn taking its place tho.
Mana dorks die. High curve gets countered. Slightly reducing the curve, removing land, adding all-in-one answer like VoR would not make you any weaker and give you a boost against control.
I removed land and added a colorless one, more 2 drops, which is why there is a single guildgate.
+4 VoR, +1 Sel Charm, +1 Grove of the Guardian, +1 Ready // Willing, +1 Selesnya Guildgate
Reasons:
Curve was too high. Blessing gives you a powerful pump, however, you already have big creatures, and even if you come to cross the path of a bigger threat, the +2/+2 from charms on your creature will probably be enough to win the fight or you can just exile anything with 5+ power to begin with.
VoR will not only grant you advantage against control, but also against aggro and midrange. More blockers, lower curve, prevents instant tricks, etc.
You have a lot of strong creatures that would die to your own Elspeth - it would be a SB card for control where a bunch of 1/1s might actually do something.
Playing Boros against RDW is actually really easy. Charmed Reckoners = board wipe. The secret is just to avoid straight racing RDW, playing a more conservative game. Post SB, it is even easier. Mana base issues would depend a lot on the Boros build tho (W/r, R/w, maybe even 50/50), so different builds might actually be worse against RDW as you said.
GW is being a pain tho. Recent GW builds have an incredible resistence to creature burn (rootborn, sel charm, natural big creatures), can beat/wall R/x creatures (2cc 3/3, 3cc 4/4, 4cc flash 5/5, VoR's tokens, 0/3 hexproof defenders,), life gain (Ooze, unflinching, Trostani), they can recover from quick red starts of at least 2 turns of aggression pretty well and they do not take damage from TS/shocks as 3c slower midrange lists. Luckily, it can't take out control as fast and is weaker than general midrange lists, which makes it less reliable and (I hope) it will not played as much in the near future.
On another note, think about the other options you have for that spot of the curve. Even Warleader's Helix is becoming less usefull now that 5+ toughness guys are everywhere, not to mention the other ones with protection from white. It would probably end up getting cut from most of the lists if the TS/RtB/Shocks didn't hurt you a lot.
So far, control has been extremelly easy to beat. Wrath protection, fast strikers and a good SB (burning earth, hammer, more Chandra's Phoenix, etc.) are just too much for them. The aggro R/x mirror is also fairly easy, since I can exile their reckoners/phoenix, charm my reckoners and make my creatures grow bigger with Legion's Initiative.
The only problem I am facing is against G/W aggro/midrange, some of them splashing B as well. They might lack the burn, but their creatures are extremelly OP in comparison with ours (2cc 3/3 were already a pain before, let alone now that they become undestructible with hexproof), they have lifegain and even their mana ramp dudes with 0/3 can gain them some time. Advent of the Wurm has wrecked me countless times too. Is anyone having a lot of trouble on this MU?
PS: Sorry for posting details of a R/W list in RDW thread, but there are no R/W primers and RDW experience on this would help me as well
Do not MD 3 hammers in the place of your 3 drops, you can get some and SB them to use against control MUs. Try Boros Reckoner in their place instead.
Chained to the rocks is a 1 mana removal spell that can knock out any big creature that can hold you back (except for BBoV or the new dragon). Could easily be played with your mana base.
Who?
Sorry I really could not help doing this.
Edit: Civil, no hard feelings, I'm just joking xDDD
For the 3rd time (lol):
He is not trading one for the other. He already has 3 TS mainboard.
I honestly started to feel hate towards TS. We get that thing reprinted and not only people will include it in all lists with B without any idea of what they are doing, but it also pops up in every single page in every single Bx deck thread of this forum. I'm about to run SG myself just to play it in every game against B decks just to feel pleasure as I name freaking "TS" as the target.
Again:
He is using Kamahl's list, which already has 3 TS main. He traded the SB discards for SG. Your reading skills also proves your points not quite valid. In a control meta I can see SG performing quite well, he has his reasons and can probably give you backup for it. Don't criticize before reading and trying to understand people's points
Edit: What makes threads like this valuable are players like Kamahl who can give backup numbers and tell you why X is not as good as Y, and even so, the math can't be applied to specific metas, so he could just be giving you a bad call, but his statements are at least based on something.
Kamahl's primer list has 3 TS main. He removed the TS/Duress from the side. No reason to pick on the sig list either, as it has nothing to do with what we are doing here.
The loss of lands seems to hurt the deck itself more than I'd like, since it is blank against aggro (they don't care about many lands they might lose and if you reached 7 lands you probably got the match already), midrange might be a 50/50 but we have no ramp to make it up for the land loss and G decks usually can use better vanillas than us, making the argument of 4/5 for 4 being "ok" quite useless. Against control I see the ability being useful, but really, why would you need a big vanilla roadblock against control? You might get more use out of Exava just for the fact she connects when she lands in this MU.
The only situation where I see the card being superior than Demon is against Big Red (burn+token creation builds that can tap Demon constantly), or perhaps the mirror (only because of Baron, still not that optimal).
2 Lord of the Void
4 Nemesis of Mortals
2 Desecration Demon
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Grisly Savage
3 Rescue From the Underworld
3 Whip of Erebos
8 self mill options, which will fill your GY with resources to reanimate, decrease Nemesis' cost and allow Shaman to ramp. Commune also allows you to get the Whip.
4 Finishers (Lord/Giant) that have evasion and will leave resources behind (besides the 7 life) after the single hit the Whip gives you (one of their creatures or a 7/7 trample token that makes tokens as well).
6 Mid-size roadblocks (Demon and Nemesis) that can win you the game even if you do not reanimate anything.
8 mana dorks, being Shaman much more than that.
6 Reanimation spells.
4 Self-discard outlet in the form of Troll, which can also hold aggro or apply pressure on control.
I like the deck and it might be viable for FNM if people start to forget GY hate thinking reanimation is gone for good. Is this worth testing?