Hey all - does anyone have a Flagstones of Trokair list with Goblin Dark-Dwelllers and Boom/Bust? I just ordered my 4th Blood Moon and want to play something that smashes Tron and Scapeshift, which dominate the meta at one store i go to. I'm thinking MD Angernof the Gods will shore up aggro and Burn and help with Dredge. I don't think I want to play Chalice in the main right now. I know that's blasphemy but trying to think outside the box.
Drmarkb - do you have one? You mentioned your landkill deck - does it have Aven Mindcensor to make Path and GQ and Suppression Field even better?
You know what I think is nonsense? Being rude to the most helpful person in this forum, who has experience with this deck that most of you obviously haven't even picked up, and who spends their time answering questions for noobs (to the deck).
I did some math. The absolute worst case (on the play, turn 4, drew exactly 4 lands and 0 creatures, fetched 0 times, drew 0 extra cards, and scryed 0 cards to the bottom) is 54% hitrate.
However, it's very likely that I don't jam Narset on T4, draw extra cards off of Visions and Esper Charm, scryed away lands 5+, or fetched to shuffle them away after Narset's previous reveal. I've probably fetched at least twice. So if I fetched twice, scryed once, and drew 1 creature and 1 more land over5 more looks, then I'm left with 60% hits on T4. The longer the game goes, (and it probably will), the higher the rate gets.
SO, you're technically right that it isn't 70 most of the time, but it is still A LOT. And the clarification was A LOT. So get off your high horse.
I haven't watched Seth's videos yet, so I'm not sure what situation he got himself into, but it should NEVER be hart to trigger revolt. My list has 7-8 fetches, 2-3 Ghost Quarters, 3 Flickerwisps, 1 Resto Angel, 4 STEves, 2 Saffis, and a single Blasting Station. That's 21 ways, over a third of the deck.
However, the sequencing can be tough, as I mentioned the other day. You don't just Sac your cards at the first end step; you have to think ahead...
Occasionally I find I have a Rallier early with no target, so I might go down to two, but probably not! 90% of the time the T3 Rallier nets a Tribe Elder or a fetch. STE is the best case, because T3 STE into T3 Rallier --> STE ramping me to 5 at the end of T3 means I can play a Titan on T4. It's not that unusual, I did it on Friday with a PrimeTime. However I had fetched my 1 Forest instead of all Plains, so I didn't get the dream of active Emeria in the upkeep of T5
Hey all, FNM was fun, I went 2-2 with this deck, though it should have been 3-1 but for a stupid mistake. It is powerful but I'll admit that it is challenging to line up correct decisions. I need more practice for sure!
I think that the manabase above is a bit greedy. I never had trouble with getting Blue, but I did have trouble getting double-green for Primeval Titan and still prioritizing getting plains for Emeria when I would crack my Sakura-Tribe Elders. Also this was magnified by the fact that I ran three Ghost Quarters because I know my store has a few Tron and Scapeshift players, but of course I didn't play them tonight. So I'll rework it a bit. However I do like 2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin instead of the 3 I've seen in other lists, especially when I have old PrimeTime to grab one up.
Here's a summary of matchups and sideboarding:
Round 1: Win 3-0 against Skred Red.
Game 1 I gained 12 life with Lone Missionary, and my opponent played an Eidolon of the Great Revels and lot more Burn than I expect from Skred, so I thought it was monored Burn. I beat down with the Missionaries and a Rallier.
Side in 3 Leyline and 2 Scavenging Ooze, Side out 2 Verdicts, 2 Paths, and a D-Sphere.
Game 2 I have Leyline of Sanctity and he has Leyline of Punishment. My Leyline did a lot more work. I didn't gain any life but I beat down pretty good while he held useless cards. I was playing around Blood Moon but he told me he had sided them out.
Game 3 was for fun because he wanted me to see what his deck did, and because magic is fun. He had the Leyline again, and he got out Turn 3 Koth of the Hammer followed by Turn 4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance plus Ensnaring Bridge. My Leyline of Sanctity made his Koth pretty much just a ramp spell, but Chandra's 2 damage doesn't target so he was able to hit me for two a turn. He got a second Bridge and felt quite comfortable with his lock and two mana per turn. I had a Sun Titan, Saffi, and a few other creatures that couldn't attack. Was hoping for a Blasting Station to combo off but drew my one remaining Detention Sphere and took his Bridges, and attacked. Killed Chandra and him in about 3 turns. This deck turns the corner so good!!
Round 2: Lost 0-2 against UR Kiln Fiend/Thing in the Ice. I guess this is Suicide Bloo? I need to read about it.
Game 1 he had 2 TITIs for T2 and T3, while I had 2 Walls of Omens. It was an 0/4 party, then on T4 he cast Serum Visions into Manamorphose into Mutagenic Growth into Temur Battle Rage, flipping the TITIs, bouncing my team and swinging for 25. GG.
I was quite unsure about sideboarding, thinking he was on the Thing Ascension deck. I brought in 2 Scooze, 2 Negate and 2 Meddling Mage (probably unnecessary), and took out 2 Verdicts, 1 Blasting Station, thinking they were too slow and I still think so. I also took out 1 Path, 1 Wall of Omens, and 1 Lone Missionary, not really for any good reason. Please feel free to comment what would have been better.
Game 2 lasted a little longer, as I pathed his first 7/7 doublestriking Kiln Fiend. He followed up with Bedlam Reveler. His next turn he played a Swiftpear and put me to 6. I kept awkwardly, fetched awkwardly, etc. The next turn I had plains and GQ in play, fetched/shocked a Temple Garden instead of Hallowed Fountain, and played Renegade Rallier to return my fetch to the table, even though I had Negate in hand. Died to burn.
Round 3 Lost 1-2 to Grixis Control, but this is the one I should have won. I know I didn't, but for testing/review purposes it was like a win.
Game 1 was pretty easy as he had a bit of mana trouble after keeping a one-lander. T2 doesn't draw second land, discards an Ancestral Vision to hand size so that he could hold up bolt. I think that was a mistake on his part, since killing my early guy didn't matter. I got the Saffi/Rallier lock, drew a D-Sphere for his Tasigur, and he got stuck at three lands.
I boarded in 2 Negate and 2 Scooze, and took out 3 Verdict and 1 Path. I thought really hard about Gaddock Teeg to stop Cryptic Command, but it didn't seem worth it.
Game 2 he suspended AV on turn 1 and then another on turn 3. I was a bit slow on mana, and made some poor choices like aggressively Ghost Quartering to try to keep him off red mana, which he alway seemed to fetch more of. I Negated the first Vision when it came off of suspend, and felt pretty in control, but then I GQ'd my own land to get a Forest so I could play Primeval Titan, which he countered. Second Vision resolved, and he slowly Tasigured and burned me down despite me gaining 8 life. I got him to three and I think tighter play might have won me that one.
Game 3 I made the hugest mistake ever, which was not blocking his Tasigur multiple times despite having THREE Walls of Omens in play. I literally forgot that I could block. Even then I would have won, but I made some other small mistakes. One was not Ghost Quartering his Creeping Tar Pits, because I wanted to keep it for fixing, which cost me about 6 life. Then, I waited a turn without doing the GQ trick to get a plains, when I could have gotten Emeria online. Then, after I did get Emeria online, I returned Sun Titan to the board, and with his trigger, I meant to get Saffi, but grabbed a Rallier instead - just moving too fast. Anyway, I'm not crying over spilled milk, just saying that I think this is a good matchup and my poor play cost me Game 3 and possibly Game 2 also. That said, my opponent was quite skilled, and got all the edge and value that he could out of this deck.
Looking back, I think maybe I should have sideboarded in my Leylines, because Lightning Bolt and Kolaghan's Command won him both games. My opponent also thought that I should have brought in Teeg, but I still think it's too narrow. What do you folks think?
Round 4: Won 2-1 against Monogreen Stompy - This matchup is incredibly easy if they don't draw the nuts hand.
Game 1 I killed his stuff and beat down with a Titan. I did have the fun interaction of saccing my own Selfless Spirit and then Wrathing the board.
Game 2 He had the nuts. I played T2 Lone Missionary and T3 Flickerwisp, so I had gained 8 life. On Turn 4 he played double Aspect of Hydra on an unblocked creature to do 19 damage and win.
Game 3 belonged to Scavenging Ooze. I had some removal, which helped, and gained 4 life on turn 2, but once I got Ooze in play it took over the game. I won with 26 life.
Overall I loved it, but really need some practice, especially to work on getting the right lands. The 3 Ghost Quarters was definitely overkill, so I'll go back to 2. However I think I'll stay with 2 Emerias. Those plus the forest and island will put me at 6 non-plains lands, and 18 plains/fetches, so that should be better. Primeval Titan is still on probation and might be better in a GW build instead of Bant.
Regarding sideboard, Scavenging Ooze was the MVP and Leyline of Sanctity definitely earned it's place. Four SB slots against artifacts may be too much, and Stony Silence is good against many decks, so it may be the Seals that have to go to make room for Spreading Seas.
As always, please feel free to give constructive criticism. Thanks for reading my novel....
I'm not going to jump in on Glittering Wish, other than to say if that's what you want to do with your flex spots, that's fine! I agree with whoever compared it to Idyllic Tutor, because it is quite similar in that you take off most of a turn to get a piece you need. If I was doing that I would probably want to get Doubling Season, because I've tuned my deck to comboing with that card, and our only real weakness is the inability to reliably have the DS to play on Turn 3.
The way I see it we have a 56-card core, which can have 5 mana on T3 VERY consistently, and sometimes have 4 mana on T2. Additionally, if you don't have Doubling Season, you almost always has one of the powerful planeswalkers to play on T2 or T3. Here is that core:
Note: I tried maindeck hate cards like Worship and Blood Moon, then I tried using a bunch of token-creating PWs, but those don't always work and they cut our consistency of getting the combo.. That's why I am focused on "turbo"ing to the combo.
In the 4 flex slots, I have tried cards that shore up our weakness of finding a Doubling Season, namely:
Of these, the first two make us take a turn of of powering into the combo - so best case becomes T4 DS into T5 win. Commune worked OK, but only has about 30-35% chance of getting to the DS, and can't get a PW if that's what we need. I can't think of any other way to try to power into the combo. So, the question we are faced with is - What powerful thing can I do on T3 with 5 mana that will keep me alive? Maybe I'll go back to hate cards or powerful PWs like Gideon Jura, but I don't think those are broad enough, and I already have a sideboard full of them.
My new plan needs 5 slots, so I cut Ral (least consistent) and the 4 Communes and am adding 2x Platinum Emperion and 3x Madcap Experiment. I think it has promise, just waiting for the Emperions to come in the mail. What do y'all think? Double-Mad Planeswalkers?
Thanks for the heads up Dennis! I was about to walk into FNM with an illegal card. I actually like Sesal better because it doesn't cost 1 to activate and it dodges removal/boardwipes, but the exalted could be nice!
Yes, Gaddock Teeg replaces Verdicts against Control and Scapeshift and Tron.
However the main reason I run Leyline is against Burn, but that only slows them down, doesn't stop them. Maybe those slots should just be Kitchen Finks? What do you guys like against Burn? I have found Blessed Alliance a little weak in other decks...
Here's the whole deck for reference. I welcome any discussion! Thanks...
I know the guy who top 8'd an IQ with that list you linked above - I'll ask him if he's considered Beast Within when I see him again - it seems good. The deck has evolved a bit since that tournament... He switched the Mortarpods for Blasting Stations and a few other changes.
I really like his list although I took out a Banishing Light and already made the switch to Blasting Station. What were his other changes?
Hi Fayrawks - I haven't seen him lately... what I recall is that he switched to Blasting Station, and that he was happy with Tireless Tracker. I know that card is great value, but not sure in this deck... It doesn't have an ETB, but it does get more clues from recurring lands with Rallier/Titan, and card draw is strong, even for 2. Also, maybe less importantly, cracking a clue triggers revolt. I may try to fit one in.
I'm brewing Bant version right now, which doesn't seem too awkward in goldfish, but I haven't played real games yet. Will post later.
Hi Guys - Glad to see that W/G is getting some consideration now. I read the first five pages of the forum and people seemed to hate on it a lot a few months ago. I think Renegade Rallier is what makes the green really solid, but I really want to squeeze in a couple Beast Withins too. Someone earlier said that green is to make it a ramp deck, and I disagree completely. This deck has no mana dorks, and Sakura-Tribe Elder is just a much-better version of Pilgrim's Eye... that doesn't make it a ramp deck. It just makes it even more of a value deck than it was before. s
I know the guy who top 8'd an IQ with that list you linked above - I'll ask him if he's considered Beast Within when I see him again - it seems good. The deck has evolved a bit since that tournament... He switched the Mortarpods for Blasting Stations and a few other changes.
I noticed that it's been a few months since anyone mentioned Smuggler's Copter. I've recently added 3 in my monowhite build, and it's been great. It actually provides a clock, and the looting effect has been great, too. It survives sorcery speed removal, gives other creatures psuedo-flying and haste (and makes them 3/3's, in a sense). They've been very good with Squadron Hawks, giving lots of cards to loot to dig.
Hi thnkr! Can I see this Squadron/Copter list? I want a list to build online and this sounds like fun!
I goldfished the above 20 times. Here are the results:
8 (40%) Combo on turn 4
5 (25%) Combo on turn 5
6 (30%) Missing a piece, but still able to play a 4-mana walker on T3
1 (5%) Ramp like crazy, get Doubling Season but no walkers by T6
I did that experiment with no mulligans - some of those hands really weren't good enough to keep. Obviously that assumed no interaction, which isn't realistic. I'm going to play against real people tonight....
Hey guys, I did some math trying to figure out how to maximize our chances of comboing off on turn 4 or 5. This is a lot of words, so if you want to just skip down to the deck, that's fine, but hopefully this is useful to someone.
As much as I love hypergeometric distributions, it was much easier to use Frank Karsten's classic article on manabases as a reference. (Sidenote - if you play magic, and don't know that article, stop and go read it.)
In order to go off on T4, we need at least one mana accelerator on T1, a second mana accelerator by T2, one Doubling Season by T3, and one of the game-winning planeswalkers by T4. According to the math:
in order to have two dorks/accelerators on T2, with 90% probability, we would need 20 of them in our deck.
in order to have one Doubling Season by T3, with 90% probability, we would need 12 of them in our deck.
in order to have one 4-mana walker on T4, with 90% probability, we would need 11 of them in our deck.
Now - the most common dorks/accelerators are Arbor Elf, Utopia Sprawl, Birds of Paradise, and Sylvan Caryatid. One other possibility is Noble Hierarch, though it can't cast red. Another option at two mana (that doesn't die to bolt) is something like Farseek or Rampant Growth, which can get your 4th mana on T2. So, 20 dorks is possible. Eleven Planeswalkers is also possible, but 12 Doubling Seasons is not.
I think we all agree that we have to play 4 Oath of Nissas, because both the fixing and the filtering are mandatory. Even though they are awesome, they don't accelerate the mana. However, to reliably hit the third land on T3, we would need 22 lands, and Oath of Nissa allows us to run only 20.
If we're willing to delay the combo to T5, then there are a couple ways we can increase the number of "virtual copies" of Doubling Season (and both can get Oath or Sprawl if needed). The 100% method is Idyllic Tutor, and another possibility is Vessel of Nascency. I didn't like this card at first, because it only lets you look through 4 cards, not your whole deck. However, you have to consider that if you wait to crack it until T4, then there are 4 DS's left, and your deck is at most 49 cards, maybe even less if you've used a Oath of Nissa or a fetchland. With 49 cards left, you have a 30% probability of drawing a DS. The other benefit of this card is that it can draw pretty much any other card we need, be it a planeswalker, a land, or a creature, so it's a slightly better Oath of Nissa at that point.
At this point the core of the deck is already 60 cards:
20 Land
20 Dorks
11 Planeswalkers
4 Doubling Seasons
4 Oath of Nissas
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
In order to add some "virtual Doubling Seasons" we have to cut somewhere. First I reduced the dorks to 16, because I can find more with Oath and Vessel (and 20 seems extreme). Also, after Birds, Arbor Elf, Caryatid and Sprawl, I think the other dorks are weaker. In those 4 slots I put 1 Idylic Tutor and 3 Vessels. Then, since I now have 7 enchantments that can get a land, I cut one of those for the 12th planeswalker.
Planeswalkers: There are 4 that can likely win the game, or at least cheat in an Emrakul, when played after the Doubling Season: Jace, Nahiri, Tamiyo and Ral Zarek. They all have different abilities that also help you to stay in the game by dealing with creatures or helping draw/find cards. Narset Trancendent is also a game-winner, but her other abilities are not as good. I think 4 Jace is mandatory, and after that the mix is up to personal preference.
Drmarkb - do you have one? You mentioned your landkill deck - does it have Aven Mindcensor to make Path and GQ and Suppression Field even better?
I did some math. The absolute worst case (on the play, turn 4, drew exactly 4 lands and 0 creatures, fetched 0 times, drew 0 extra cards, and scryed 0 cards to the bottom) is 54% hitrate.
However, it's very likely that I don't jam Narset on T4, draw extra cards off of Visions and Esper Charm, scryed away lands 5+, or fetched to shuffle them away after Narset's previous reveal. I've probably fetched at least twice. So if I fetched twice, scryed once, and drew 1 creature and 1 more land over5 more looks, then I'm left with 60% hits on T4. The longer the game goes, (and it probably will), the higher the rate gets.
SO, you're technically right that it isn't 70 most of the time, but it is still A LOT. And the clarification was A LOT. So get off your high horse.
However, the sequencing can be tough, as I mentioned the other day. You don't just Sac your cards at the first end step; you have to think ahead...
Occasionally I find I have a Rallier early with no target, so I might go down to two, but probably not! 90% of the time the T3 Rallier nets a Tribe Elder or a fetch. STE is the best case, because T3 STE into T3 Rallier --> STE ramping me to 5 at the end of T3 means I can play a Titan on T4. It's not that unusual, I did it on Friday with a PrimeTime. However I had fetched my 1 Forest instead of all Plains, so I didn't get the dream of active Emeria in the upkeep of T5
I think that the manabase above is a bit greedy. I never had trouble with getting Blue, but I did have trouble getting double-green for Primeval Titan and still prioritizing getting plains for Emeria when I would crack my Sakura-Tribe Elders. Also this was magnified by the fact that I ran three Ghost Quarters because I know my store has a few Tron and Scapeshift players, but of course I didn't play them tonight. So I'll rework it a bit. However I do like 2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin instead of the 3 I've seen in other lists, especially when I have old PrimeTime to grab one up.
Here's a summary of matchups and sideboarding:
Round 1: Win 3-0 against Skred Red.
Game 1 I gained 12 life with Lone Missionary, and my opponent played an Eidolon of the Great Revels and lot more Burn than I expect from Skred, so I thought it was monored Burn. I beat down with the Missionaries and a Rallier.
Side in 3 Leyline and 2 Scavenging Ooze, Side out 2 Verdicts, 2 Paths, and a D-Sphere.
Game 2 I have Leyline of Sanctity and he has Leyline of Punishment. My Leyline did a lot more work. I didn't gain any life but I beat down pretty good while he held useless cards. I was playing around Blood Moon but he told me he had sided them out.
Game 3 was for fun because he wanted me to see what his deck did, and because magic is fun. He had the Leyline again, and he got out Turn 3 Koth of the Hammer followed by Turn 4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance plus Ensnaring Bridge. My Leyline of Sanctity made his Koth pretty much just a ramp spell, but Chandra's 2 damage doesn't target so he was able to hit me for two a turn. He got a second Bridge and felt quite comfortable with his lock and two mana per turn. I had a Sun Titan, Saffi, and a few other creatures that couldn't attack. Was hoping for a Blasting Station to combo off but drew my one remaining Detention Sphere and took his Bridges, and attacked. Killed Chandra and him in about 3 turns. This deck turns the corner so good!!
Round 2: Lost 0-2 against UR Kiln Fiend/Thing in the Ice. I guess this is Suicide Bloo? I need to read about it.
Game 1 he had 2 TITIs for T2 and T3, while I had 2 Walls of Omens. It was an 0/4 party, then on T4 he cast Serum Visions into Manamorphose into Mutagenic Growth into Temur Battle Rage, flipping the TITIs, bouncing my team and swinging for 25. GG.
I was quite unsure about sideboarding, thinking he was on the Thing Ascension deck. I brought in 2 Scooze, 2 Negate and 2 Meddling Mage (probably unnecessary), and took out 2 Verdicts, 1 Blasting Station, thinking they were too slow and I still think so. I also took out 1 Path, 1 Wall of Omens, and 1 Lone Missionary, not really for any good reason. Please feel free to comment what would have been better.
Game 2 lasted a little longer, as I pathed his first 7/7 doublestriking Kiln Fiend. He followed up with Bedlam Reveler. His next turn he played a Swiftpear and put me to 6. I kept awkwardly, fetched awkwardly, etc. The next turn I had plains and GQ in play, fetched/shocked a Temple Garden instead of Hallowed Fountain, and played Renegade Rallier to return my fetch to the table, even though I had Negate in hand. Died to burn.
Round 3 Lost 1-2 to Grixis Control, but this is the one I should have won. I know I didn't, but for testing/review purposes it was like a win.
Game 1 was pretty easy as he had a bit of mana trouble after keeping a one-lander. T2 doesn't draw second land, discards an Ancestral Vision to hand size so that he could hold up bolt. I think that was a mistake on his part, since killing my early guy didn't matter. I got the Saffi/Rallier lock, drew a D-Sphere for his Tasigur, and he got stuck at three lands.
I boarded in 2 Negate and 2 Scooze, and took out 3 Verdict and 1 Path. I thought really hard about Gaddock Teeg to stop Cryptic Command, but it didn't seem worth it.
Game 2 he suspended AV on turn 1 and then another on turn 3. I was a bit slow on mana, and made some poor choices like aggressively Ghost Quartering to try to keep him off red mana, which he alway seemed to fetch more of. I Negated the first Vision when it came off of suspend, and felt pretty in control, but then I GQ'd my own land to get a Forest so I could play Primeval Titan, which he countered. Second Vision resolved, and he slowly Tasigured and burned me down despite me gaining 8 life. I got him to three and I think tighter play might have won me that one.
Game 3 I made the hugest mistake ever, which was not blocking his Tasigur multiple times despite having THREE Walls of Omens in play. I literally forgot that I could block. Even then I would have won, but I made some other small mistakes. One was not Ghost Quartering his Creeping Tar Pits, because I wanted to keep it for fixing, which cost me about 6 life. Then, I waited a turn without doing the GQ trick to get a plains, when I could have gotten Emeria online. Then, after I did get Emeria online, I returned Sun Titan to the board, and with his trigger, I meant to get Saffi, but grabbed a Rallier instead - just moving too fast. Anyway, I'm not crying over spilled milk, just saying that I think this is a good matchup and my poor play cost me Game 3 and possibly Game 2 also. That said, my opponent was quite skilled, and got all the edge and value that he could out of this deck.
Looking back, I think maybe I should have sideboarded in my Leylines, because Lightning Bolt and Kolaghan's Command won him both games. My opponent also thought that I should have brought in Teeg, but I still think it's too narrow. What do you folks think?
Round 4: Won 2-1 against Monogreen Stompy - This matchup is incredibly easy if they don't draw the nuts hand.
Game 1 I killed his stuff and beat down with a Titan. I did have the fun interaction of saccing my own Selfless Spirit and then Wrathing the board.
Game 2 He had the nuts. I played T2 Lone Missionary and T3 Flickerwisp, so I had gained 8 life. On Turn 4 he played double Aspect of Hydra on an unblocked creature to do 19 damage and win.
Game 3 belonged to Scavenging Ooze. I had some removal, which helped, and gained 4 life on turn 2, but once I got Ooze in play it took over the game. I won with 26 life.
Overall I loved it, but really need some practice, especially to work on getting the right lands. The 3 Ghost Quarters was definitely overkill, so I'll go back to 2. However I think I'll stay with 2 Emerias. Those plus the forest and island will put me at 6 non-plains lands, and 18 plains/fetches, so that should be better. Primeval Titan is still on probation and might be better in a GW build instead of Bant.
Regarding sideboard, Scavenging Ooze was the MVP and Leyline of Sanctity definitely earned it's place. Four SB slots against artifacts may be too much, and Stony Silence is good against many decks, so it may be the Seals that have to go to make room for Spreading Seas.
As always, please feel free to give constructive criticism. Thanks for reading my novel....
The way I see it we have a 56-card core, which can have 5 mana on T3 VERY consistently, and sometimes have 4 mana on T2. Additionally, if you don't have Doubling Season, you almost always has one of the powerful planeswalkers to play on T2 or T3. Here is that core:
5 Forest
8 Green Fetches
2 Breeding Pool
2 Stomping Ground
2 Temple Garden
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Arbor Elf
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Oath of Nissa
4 Doubling Season
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
3 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1 Ral Zarek
Note: I tried maindeck hate cards like Worship and Blood Moon, then I tried using a bunch of token-creating PWs, but those don't always work and they cut our consistency of getting the combo.. That's why I am focused on "turbo"ing to the combo.
In the 4 flex slots, I have tried cards that shore up our weakness of finding a Doubling Season, namely:
Of these, the first two make us take a turn of of powering into the combo - so best case becomes T4 DS into T5 win. Commune worked OK, but only has about 30-35% chance of getting to the DS, and can't get a PW if that's what we need. I can't think of any other way to try to power into the combo. So, the question we are faced with is - What powerful thing can I do on T3 with 5 mana that will keep me alive? Maybe I'll go back to hate cards or powerful PWs like Gideon Jura, but I don't think those are broad enough, and I already have a sideboard full of them.
My new plan needs 5 slots, so I cut Ral (least consistent) and the 4 Communes and am adding 2x Platinum Emperion and 3x Madcap Experiment. I think it has promise, just waiting for the Emperions to come in the mail. What do y'all think? Double-Mad Planeswalkers?
Yes, Gaddock Teeg replaces Verdicts against Control and Scapeshift and Tron.
Runed Halo is good against a specific card, assuming one knows what to name... some main ones I guess are Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle, Lightning Storm, Mountain, Reality Smasher, Conflagrate and Inkmoth Nexus, all of which are stopped by Leyline except the Creatures.
However the main reason I run Leyline is against Burn, but that only slows them down, doesn't stop them. Maybe those slots should just be Kitchen Finks? What do you guys like against Burn? I have found Blessed Alliance a little weak in other decks...
Here's the whole deck for reference. I welcome any discussion! Thanks...
4 Lone Missionary
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Wall of Omens
2 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Selfless Spirit
3 Flickerwisp
3 Renegade Rallier
1 Restoration Angel
1 Primeval Titan
2 Sun Titan
11 Spells:
1 Blasting Station
1 Beast Within
2 Detention Sphere
3 Supreme Verdict
4 Path to Exile
7 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
3 Flooded Strand
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
2 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Forest
1 Island
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stony Silence
2 Negate
2 Meddling Mage
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Scavenging Ooze
I really like the Spreading Seas idea, but not sure how to fit it in. My current sideboard is:
Hi Fayrawks - I haven't seen him lately... what I recall is that he switched to Blasting Station, and that he was happy with Tireless Tracker. I know that card is great value, but not sure in this deck... It doesn't have an ETB, but it does get more clues from recurring lands with Rallier/Titan, and card draw is strong, even for 2. Also, maybe less importantly, cracking a clue triggers revolt. I may try to fit one in.
I'm brewing Bant version right now, which doesn't seem too awkward in goldfish, but I haven't played real games yet. Will post later.
I know the guy who top 8'd an IQ with that list you linked above - I'll ask him if he's considered Beast Within when I see him again - it seems good. The deck has evolved a bit since that tournament... He switched the Mortarpods for Blasting Stations and a few other changes.
Hi thnkr! Can I see this Squadron/Copter list? I want a list to build online and this sounds like fun!
8 (40%) Combo on turn 4
5 (25%) Combo on turn 5
6 (30%) Missing a piece, but still able to play a 4-mana walker on T3
1 (5%) Ramp like crazy, get Doubling Season but no walkers by T6
I did that experiment with no mulligans - some of those hands really weren't good enough to keep. Obviously that assumed no interaction, which isn't realistic. I'm going to play against real people tonight....
As much as I love hypergeometric distributions, it was much easier to use Frank Karsten's classic article on manabases as a reference. (Sidenote - if you play magic, and don't know that article, stop and go read it.)
In order to go off on T4, we need at least one mana accelerator on T1, a second mana accelerator by T2, one Doubling Season by T3, and one of the game-winning planeswalkers by T4. According to the math:
Now - the most common dorks/accelerators are Arbor Elf, Utopia Sprawl, Birds of Paradise, and Sylvan Caryatid. One other possibility is Noble Hierarch, though it can't cast red. Another option at two mana (that doesn't die to bolt) is something like Farseek or Rampant Growth, which can get your 4th mana on T2. So, 20 dorks is possible. Eleven Planeswalkers is also possible, but 12 Doubling Seasons is not.
I think we all agree that we have to play 4 Oath of Nissas, because both the fixing and the filtering are mandatory. Even though they are awesome, they don't accelerate the mana. However, to reliably hit the third land on T3, we would need 22 lands, and Oath of Nissa allows us to run only 20.
If we're willing to delay the combo to T5, then there are a couple ways we can increase the number of "virtual copies" of Doubling Season (and both can get Oath or Sprawl if needed). The 100% method is Idyllic Tutor, and another possibility is Vessel of Nascency. I didn't like this card at first, because it only lets you look through 4 cards, not your whole deck. However, you have to consider that if you wait to crack it until T4, then there are 4 DS's left, and your deck is at most 49 cards, maybe even less if you've used a Oath of Nissa or a fetchland. With 49 cards left, you have a 30% probability of drawing a DS. The other benefit of this card is that it can draw pretty much any other card we need, be it a planeswalker, a land, or a creature, so it's a slightly better Oath of Nissa at that point.
At this point the core of the deck is already 60 cards:
20 Land
20 Dorks
11 Planeswalkers
4 Doubling Seasons
4 Oath of Nissas
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
In order to add some "virtual Doubling Seasons" we have to cut somewhere. First I reduced the dorks to 16, because I can find more with Oath and Vessel (and 20 seems extreme). Also, after Birds, Arbor Elf, Caryatid and Sprawl, I think the other dorks are weaker. In those 4 slots I put 1 Idylic Tutor and 3 Vessels. Then, since I now have 7 enchantments that can get a land, I cut one of those for the 12th planeswalker.
Planeswalkers: There are 4 that can likely win the game, or at least cheat in an Emrakul, when played after the Doubling Season: Jace, Nahiri, Tamiyo and Ral Zarek. They all have different abilities that also help you to stay in the game by dealing with creatures or helping draw/find cards. Narset Trancendent is also a game-winner, but her other abilities are not as good. I think 4 Jace is mandatory, and after that the mix is up to personal preference.
So here's my list:
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Arbor Elf
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Utopia Sprawl
12 Enablers
4 Oath of Nissa
4 Doubling Season
3 Vessel of Nascency
1 Idyllic Tutor
4 Jace, Architect of Thought
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
3 Tamiyo, Field Researcher
1 Ral Zarek
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
19 Lands
4 Green Fetchlands
4 Forest
2 Breeding Pool
2 Temple Garden
2 Stomping Ground
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Blood Moon
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Worship
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Negate
1 Bribery
About the Sideboard: 12 of these are enchantments that can be tutored with Idyllic Tutor. If I'm playing against a deck with a good target, then Bribery is an amazing card to play on turn 3. My favorite targets are Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, Primeval Titan, Platinum Empyrion and Baneslayer Angel.