Karn definately was a tough card for me to deal with as all my answers to planewalkers seems to be in artifact form.
Bedevil could be a planeswalker instant removal we might try
Well remember we can't tutor it out when Karn is out and I fear a 3 mana double black 1 for 1 removal might be too hard and too slow for modern. I think more bolts would work out better.
Its the one on page two but I replaced the sword of fire and ice with a second K-Command since I dont own one. replaced the arid mesa's with random lands like a windswept heath, another vantage, a mountain, and a silent clearing
Magik that's great!
I see you combo killed 4 times. That's spicy.
So it seems you can win using the combo kill, but also eventually outvalueing the opponent.
I have some questions, I hope you have the time to answer...
Do the two strategies possibly clash? Did you have bad hands with half combo cards?
Did you have any chance to make use of Chance for glory?
And would you change anything for the next time?
Thank you!
well most of the combo cards are not to clunky with the major exception of repeated reverberations, the rest of the combo can cycle themselves away if need be but it can be hard to have the 5 to 6 mana required the get value out of the repeated reverberations in hand. This may be an argument to run more paths or bolts to make it a bit easier to get value out of them in hand. The nightmare is drawing both of them because if you only get 1 at least you can hard cast it after using a repeated reverberations on a manamorphose when you go for the combo then get the second manamorphose off the sunforger.
I didnt cast chance for glory once however there were 2 instances if I hadn't side boarded it out it would have allowed me to combo kill that turn so it may simply be my mistake for sideboarding it out, however I guess its pretty hard to know if you are going to make use of it or not ahead of time and I do have to side out something for hate cards.
Overall I'm pretty happy with the build as is. There are a few cards I would like to test out to see how they do like unearth, and sword of feast and famine, and also possibly a second copy of sunforger but I don't see any major changes in the near future.
So just got back from my first FNM with champion legal, I ended up 4-1, getting 3rd out of 29 entrants. Heres my report on how I did:
(I lost every die roll and was on the play game 1 every game)
Round 1 vs GB Torpor Orb
Game 1 his torpor orb shut down the multiple stoneforge mystics I had and he beat me down with a couple of Hunted Horrors. I was able to take 1 of them down eventually with a repeated reverberation on lightning helix but I wasn't able to take down the second.
Game 2 I tore apart his hand and got the combo kill on turn 4
Game 3 I destroyed both torpor orbs he played with abrade and k-commands and generally out valued him with a kaya's guile and K-command, beating him down with ranger captains and a stoneforge mystic that had a sunforger attached to it.
Round 2 vs Elves
Game 1 he had a pretty nutty hand with turn 1 llanowar into turn 2 heritage druid and nettle sential into a couple of lords, I helixed a couple of elves but was brought down to 0 unable to remove the rest of the elves in time.
Game 2 turn 1 IoK and spent the rest of the game helix and bolting his creatuers until I eventually paved the way for the combo kill.
Game 3 I played removal against all his relevant elves and he refilled back up with lead the stampede, My ranger captain got a lavamancer which wittled down his creatuers until I eventually outvalued him. He Stained the Mind my sunforger this game so I couldnt combo off.
Round 3 vs Mardu Shadow
Game 1 We both kinda flooded out here and he alot of 1 for 1 exchanges early games and copied each other with K-Commands, However once he was at 6 life he thoughtseized which i responded with a helix and a k-command to close out the game.
Game 2 We traded resources again early game but he had back to back ranger captains into death shadows and I couldnt point my removal at them all in time and lost
Game 3 More of the same but I used double stoneforge to generate enough value that lead the path for a sunforger onto a fervant champion. I took out the chance for glory so I was 1 mana short of getting the combo KO. I went through the 3 manamorphose left in the deck but I drew 3 lands straight, the last sunforger activation was for a K-command making him discard his land card and destroying the tidehollow sculler that had another K-command underneath it, this second K-command was enough to close out the game.
Round 4 vs Colorless Eldrazi
Game 1 he had turn 2 thought-knot seer and beat me down with it and reality smasher
Game 2 I he turned 2 thought-knot seer'd but I had the path to remove it. Discarded away the removal he had and got the combo kill turn 4
Game 3 I opened up with IoK but he had natural tron turn 3 which let him karn, the great creator and used his wish to get a walking balista to clear my lavamancer and champion. Karn generated too much value as I struggled to remove it unable to use sunforger with it out, I lost later to a smasher.
Round 5 vs Mardu Knights
Game 1 batterskull gained my too much life along side lightning helix removing his threats, pretty much had the perfect anti- aggro hand
Game 2 I brought in some more removal and used it on his early game threats eventually getting the combo kill around turn 5.
So the list I ran isn't exactly the list I posted earlier as I dont own Sword of Fire and Ice or Arid mesa's but I feel like this deck is a legitimate deck in modern. Karn definately was a tough card for me to deal with as all my answers to planewalkers seems to be in artifact form. very happy with how the deck did today and I'm so excited to play with my favorite card in MTG sunforger in modern finally!
Repeated Reverberation is worded differently then simple reverberate. Repeated Reverberation doesnt target it simply copies the next spell you cast. It has to be worded like this since it also copies planeswalkers abilities, not that I'm using the card for that reason.
Sure heres how it goes down.
For when you have champion and forger in play:
if you can make WWR heres what you get with forger
first you get desperate ritual and get WRRR
then you get manamorphose to filter and get WWRR
then you get repeated reverberations and have RW
then you get manamorphose and get 2 copies to draw 3 and get RRRWWW
then you get 3 activations to get another reverbations if you have it and another manamorphose to increase your mana even more, then you can get boros charm to give him double strike and then use fist of flames on it to give it trample and alot of attack. Usually ends up being a 13/1 with double strike and trample.
if you only have RW available but can get up to WWR you can first get chance for glory and attempt the combo above on the following turn.
if its really late into the game you can get reverberations into another reverberations then cast a boros charm to get 7 copies doing 4 damage each.
Maybe with O-ring kind of effects? O-ring something then when they play a card with the same name blick the o-ring and then retarget the one they didnt sacrifice to the legend rule?
Ah okay, so if I'm understanding correctly, because spreading seas doesnt actually add the land type, it just makes the permanent an island, therefore it will not fulfill its own requirement of enchant land?
If I have a card enchanted with Imprisoned in the moon then enchant that new land with Spreading Seas, what will happen to the enchanted card if imprisoned in the moon is removed from the field?
Well besides nykthos there is chained to the rocks as well. Or keeping someone off a certain color, blue for instance against esper.
with prophet on board you are always beating your opponent in mana, i just think encroaching wastes pushes that even further without hurting the mana base by any significant amount.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmi1UabC8B0
Well remember we can't tutor it out when Karn is out and I fear a 3 mana double black 1 for 1 removal might be too hard and too slow for modern. I think more bolts would work out better.
well most of the combo cards are not to clunky with the major exception of repeated reverberations, the rest of the combo can cycle themselves away if need be but it can be hard to have the 5 to 6 mana required the get value out of the repeated reverberations in hand. This may be an argument to run more paths or bolts to make it a bit easier to get value out of them in hand. The nightmare is drawing both of them because if you only get 1 at least you can hard cast it after using a repeated reverberations on a manamorphose when you go for the combo then get the second manamorphose off the sunforger.
I didnt cast chance for glory once however there were 2 instances if I hadn't side boarded it out it would have allowed me to combo kill that turn so it may simply be my mistake for sideboarding it out, however I guess its pretty hard to know if you are going to make use of it or not ahead of time and I do have to side out something for hate cards.
Overall I'm pretty happy with the build as is. There are a few cards I would like to test out to see how they do like unearth, and sword of feast and famine, and also possibly a second copy of sunforger but I don't see any major changes in the near future.
(I lost every die roll and was on the play game 1 every game)
Round 1 vs GB Torpor Orb
Game 1 his torpor orb shut down the multiple stoneforge mystics I had and he beat me down with a couple of Hunted Horrors. I was able to take 1 of them down eventually with a repeated reverberation on lightning helix but I wasn't able to take down the second.
Game 2 I tore apart his hand and got the combo kill on turn 4
Game 3 I destroyed both torpor orbs he played with abrade and k-commands and generally out valued him with a kaya's guile and K-command, beating him down with ranger captains and a stoneforge mystic that had a sunforger attached to it.
Round 2 vs Elves
Game 1 he had a pretty nutty hand with turn 1 llanowar into turn 2 heritage druid and nettle sential into a couple of lords, I helixed a couple of elves but was brought down to 0 unable to remove the rest of the elves in time.
Game 2 turn 1 IoK and spent the rest of the game helix and bolting his creatuers until I eventually paved the way for the combo kill.
Game 3 I played removal against all his relevant elves and he refilled back up with lead the stampede, My ranger captain got a lavamancer which wittled down his creatuers until I eventually outvalued him. He Stained the Mind my sunforger this game so I couldnt combo off.
Round 3 vs Mardu Shadow
Game 1 We both kinda flooded out here and he alot of 1 for 1 exchanges early games and copied each other with K-Commands, However once he was at 6 life he thoughtseized which i responded with a helix and a k-command to close out the game.
Game 2 We traded resources again early game but he had back to back ranger captains into death shadows and I couldnt point my removal at them all in time and lost
Game 3 More of the same but I used double stoneforge to generate enough value that lead the path for a sunforger onto a fervant champion. I took out the chance for glory so I was 1 mana short of getting the combo KO. I went through the 3 manamorphose left in the deck but I drew 3 lands straight, the last sunforger activation was for a K-command making him discard his land card and destroying the tidehollow sculler that had another K-command underneath it, this second K-command was enough to close out the game.
Round 4 vs Colorless Eldrazi
Game 1 he had turn 2 thought-knot seer and beat me down with it and reality smasher
Game 2 I he turned 2 thought-knot seer'd but I had the path to remove it. Discarded away the removal he had and got the combo kill turn 4
Game 3 I opened up with IoK but he had natural tron turn 3 which let him karn, the great creator and used his wish to get a walking balista to clear my lavamancer and champion. Karn generated too much value as I struggled to remove it unable to use sunforger with it out, I lost later to a smasher.
Round 5 vs Mardu Knights
Game 1 batterskull gained my too much life along side lightning helix removing his threats, pretty much had the perfect anti- aggro hand
Game 2 I brought in some more removal and used it on his early game threats eventually getting the combo kill around turn 5.
So the list I ran isn't exactly the list I posted earlier as I dont own Sword of Fire and Ice or Arid mesa's but I feel like this deck is a legitimate deck in modern. Karn definately was a tough card for me to deal with as all my answers to planewalkers seems to be in artifact form. very happy with how the deck did today and I'm so excited to play with my favorite card in MTG sunforger in modern finally!
For when you have champion and forger in play:
if you can make WWR heres what you get with forger
first you get desperate ritual and get WRRR
then you get manamorphose to filter and get WWRR
then you get repeated reverberations and have RW
then you get manamorphose and get 2 copies to draw 3 and get RRRWWW
then you get 3 activations to get another reverbations if you have it and another manamorphose to increase your mana even more, then you can get boros charm to give him double strike and then use fist of flames on it to give it trample and alot of attack. Usually ends up being a 13/1 with double strike and trample.
if you only have RW available but can get up to WWR you can first get chance for glory and attempt the combo above on the following turn.
if its really late into the game you can get reverberations into another reverberations then cast a boros charm to get 7 copies doing 4 damage each.
Artifact
1 Sunforger
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
Creature
4 Fervent Champion
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Ranger-Captain of Eos
1 Grim Lavamancer
3 Giver of Runes
Instant
4 Manamorphose
2 Lightning Helix
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Kaya's Guile
2 Repeated Reverberation
1 Boros Charm
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Desperate Ritual
1 Path to Exile
1 Chance for Glory
1 Fists of Flame
1 Mistveil Plains
4 Arid Mesa
3 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
2 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Inspiring Vantage
Sorcery
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Boil
1 Hallowed Moonlight
1 Deflecting Palm
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Wear // Tear
1 Into the Core
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Lightning Helix
1 Crackling Doom
3 Wear // Tear
Abundant Growth
Wall of Blossoms
Elvish Visionary
with prophet on board you are always beating your opponent in mana, i just think encroaching wastes pushes that even further without hurting the mana base by any significant amount.