Delver loses to Burn and Abzen Midrange, the top two choices at the tournament. It doesn't take much for a pro to not pick a deck that loses to the two most popular decks.
If we run Blood Moon main board, then we lose to Burn. Goyf has been my go to for beating Burn, and Gitaxian Probe is really good against the other decks. On the other hand, Young Pyromancer is also much better now that people aren't running Chalice of the Void and Electrickery in the sideboard.
This my experience testing as well, Goyfs have overall been a positive splash for the deck. It was funny running into a XMage queue with the mirror Blue Moon with Goyfs.
However, Goyfs being stranded in your hand is a really bad place to be, sometimes you're forced to Blood Moon on curve and mana screw yourself. The downside can be big, and Izzet Charm probably should be part of the 75. The upside of having a reliable clock against Burn and Tron is worth mentioning, decks that put you on a reliable clock of beat me quick enough or lose.
This is what Wizards get for refusing to have a reasonable blue card advantage spell, a counter spell, and a cantrip spell.
I'm sure more people would enter Modern when they either have to spend $800 on a playset of Goyfs or play Burn. Sure wasn't hard to figure out the meta when the only good blue spells are Snapcaster Mage and Remand./rant
I think both WUR and RUG deserve discussion, but they should be discussed in their designated threads.
I've realized in my playtesting that Remand is just the nuts right now with all the 3/4 CMC cards around, I would play a full playset.
I also think that Goblin Guide and/or Monastery Swiftspear deserves discussion. Basically any threat that doesn't die to Zealous Persecution/Golgari Charm. The fact that Blood Moon triggers Prowess might mean its inclusion in the main deck.
I couldn't make it to a PPTQ, but a friend of mine could and agreed to play my list. I wasn't sure about the exact configuration he went with since I just gave him all the cards so he had options. He hasn't really delved into the deck before, having only played Burn, Junk and Pod in Modern with one night's practice with Temur Delver. Here's the tournament report that I asked him to write...
R1-RG Tron (0-2):
My opponent kept mediocre hands with amazing draws, leading to turn 3 Wurmcoil Engine in both games. During the first time I tried to claw back, killing the Engine and tokens, but wasted too many resources and he was able to stabalize with Oblivion Stone and Karn. Game two the fast Wurmcoil was followed by a Challice on 1 and Eye of Ugin -> Kozilek, which I stalled briefly by Cliqueing away the Kozilek, but he found an extra Tron piece off the top, and searched up Emrakul for the win.
Board in: Vendilion Clique, Huntmaster of the Fells
Board Out: 2x Spell Snare
R2-Budget Blue Moon (2-0):
Played against a young kid in his first modern event.He is playing a budget Blue Moon variant. Goyf and Delver made quick work of him. Boarded out 3 Hooting Mandrils in G2 for Keranos, Destructive Revelry and Clique to reduce demands in Green.
R3-Burn (2-1):
Game 1 he wins the race after I mull to 5, but I get him to 6 with Goyf and Delver.
Board in: Dispel, Flashfreeze, Negate, Huntmaster
Board out: 2 Probe, 2 Vapor Snag (don't remember exactly, this is my guess)
Game 2, we again trade blows to the point where I have a large Goyf and life total is 3-4. He taps out 6 mana to flashback Bump in the Night, which I Remand, and then Bolt his Swiftspear to clear the way for Goyf.
Game 3 opening Serum Visions draws me a land and scrys Delver,Bolt which lets me race his Swiftspear. He gets me to 3, and I counter his final burn spell with Flashfreeze, after which he bricks the next two draws while I finish him with Delver and Scooze.
R4-Junk(1-2):
Game 1 is a grindfest. He gets a Courser on curve with no answer from me, but I do my best to keep him off of anything else. Eventually he lands a Siege Rhino and Liliana to close the game.
Board out: 3 Remand, Probe, Thoughtscour, Forked Bolt
Board In: Vendilion Clique, Keranos, Combust, Threads of Disloyalty, Huntmaster, Flashfreeze
Game 2 he mulls twice. I remand his on-curve Goyf, Denial his on-curve Souls, and Threads his second attempt at Goyf. He gets a Rhino through my defenses, but Batterskull helps keep me alive and deal with Rhino, dealing 10 with 2 Goyfs on a crackback.
Game 3 we start with abut 6 minutes left in the round. I keep a mediocre hand that gets Huntmaster on curve. He responds with a Rhino, and on his next turn I trade Delver and the wolf token for his Rhino, and he Paths my Huntmaster. He gets a second Rhino and a Goyf, along with man lands, and finishes me through a Batterskull on his final turn of extra turns.
R5-Junk(2-1):
Game 1, Maelstrom Pulse, Lili, Path, and Rhino prove too much for me.
Same board plan as above.
Game 2 he mills once, and then I have a difficult time getting threats to stay on the board. In turn 3 he drops a Goyf, then on my turn Paths my Mandrills and Slaughter Pacts my Goyf. I pass turn, and he draws before paying for Pact, losing him the game. Game three he shocks and Thoughtseizes away my Snapcaster. I drop Goyf on turn 2 and 3, and he gets stuck on 3 lands while my Goyfs go to town.
R6-Esper Control(2-1)(Pair down):
Game 1 I start with two drop threats in hand, but Probe into Spell Snare, Remand, and Cryptic. He is able to keep me locked out with Esper Charms until Lingering Souls, White Sun's Zenith and Celestial Colonades finish me off.
Game 2 I lead with a Probe into a Delver, who flips on turn 2 and is joined by a Goyf, which makes quick work of his slow hand.
Game 3 he concedes so that he can beat traffic on the way home.
Cut to top 8 included 2 players a 4-2.
Prizes paid out to top 10, and I placed 11th on tiebreakers (R2 against the young kid was especially bad for OMW%).
Some other words... Vapor Snag felt bad, 1 of is probably correct. Clique has been really good, I think it's just an all-around solid card right now.
Personally I prefer Ooze over Blood Moon because they both come in for more grindy match ups. Ooze is never a dead card, uninterrupted, it takes over games for stalemate boards, and it also helps you to catch up, 1-3 life per turn is huge for this deck. Blood Moon can not only be a dead draw in multiples, but depending on your draws, it can also potentially cut you off from green mana, limit you on blue mana, and it's just an awkward card for a 3 color deck like Disrupting Shoal is. Lastly, Scavenging Ooze is our only means of graveyard hate, albeit slow, but it's better than nothing. Huntmaster feels like a card that, if you're a tempo/midrange cross over, would very much want. I also feel that Batterskull is strong in the shell as well. These three life gain options help you to eschew Burn specific hate cards in the board.
Mandrill feels too inconsistent to be a 4 of, but I think it's okay as a 3 of, you usually want to see one per game. The same is true for Thoughtscour, which isn't even necessarily all that synergestic with the deck.
I've put Batterskull, Scavenging Ooze, and Vendilion Clique as extra threats. These cards are boarded in a ton, so I feel like they deserve space in the mainboard. I play a deck with very light counters because I would rather resolve my own threats rather than get in the way of others' threats. Vapor Snag might just be the worst card in the deck right now due to how grindy the meta feels.
I've tried it and haven't been a fan. Disrupting Shoal, at least 2 copies, basically gets sided out every post-board game, which are sure to be grindy, and therefore 2 for 1ing yourself isn't a long-term plan.
Yes in the case where you want to land a turn 2 Goyf/Mandrill, you can play it straight into Path to Exile, but how many Modern decks are running Path to Exile, and how many times is it going to be relevant in the first 3 turns of the game? This is especially true because a turns 1-3 Path to Exile ramps you. If you're scared on Paths, I'd rather run Cryptic Command, it doesn't take much after a ramp to get to 4 mana. Cryptic Command helps you to tap down their team of Goyfs and Siege Rhinos for the win, and it's almost always a 2 for 1 when played.
I especially don't like having a hand full of reactive counters. Not only are you guaranteed to lose the game late, but you're also cutting burn spells like Forked Bolt and Pillar of Flames, which is a scary place to be against Bob decks. Pitching a Mana Leak and to Disrupting Shoal for a turn 2 Bob is not where I want to be, I would heavily advise AGAINST taking out Spell Snares.
Frankly speaking I think Disrupting Shoal is just a bad card. Run Sword of Feast and Famine, run Sword of Fire and Ice, run Sword of Light and Shadow, run Cryptic Command, run Vendilion Clique, don't run Disrupting Shoal against Path to Exile decks, take advantage of the free ramp. Threats is much, much more powerful than answers in Modern.
Mindgames sound great and all until you have a Tasigur stuck in your hand the whole game because of your turn 3 Blood Moon. Delver's mana base is very fragile as is, I think a Green splash is good because of Tarmogoyf, Hooting Mandrills, and Ancient Grudge; a White splash is good too because of Path of Exile, Lightning Helix, Geist of Saint Traft, and sideboard cards; but a Black splash seems more sketch unless you just want to play a budget Tarmogoyf, but with an upside.
I just wanted to report playing the Hooting Mandrills build that if you're going double Breeding Pool, Stomping Ground, and basic Forest, you REALLY want to have 1-2 Scavenging Oozes on the board for the grindy match ups.
Can we potentially make BUG Delver a thing? If the only R cards we're running is Lightning Bolt and sideboard cards, then I feel like Black would provide more.
Personally I prefer Remand over Mana Leak in this deck given that all the threats are essentially 1 CMC, so it's easy to generate tempo. I don't like 4x Disrupting Shoal, multiples in hand means I'm all in on one threat, but if they create a bigger threat, then I'm done. I think a higher fetch count should be fine, there will be ways to gain life against more aggressive decks, and we can race most decks pretty well, so it's more important to double fetch turns 1 and 2. Abrupt Decay is also a much more flexible card that anything in U/R, maybe more copies should be played since this deck has trouble against a turn 1 mana dork, but otherwise the deck seems sweet.
I'd like to learn more about this deck as it's basically breaking open the meta.
Why Disrupting Shoal? What is it supposed to hit? This is the only Delver list I've seen that neither runs Spell Pierce nor Spell Snare. Being that the deck is down on card advantage without Treasure Cruise, how does it support losing cards?
This list isn't showing up on MTGGoldfish or MTGTop 8, so you either aren't playing in the Modern Dailies, or you've managed to dodge showing up in any lists multiple times over some period. I'm not saying you're lying per se, but I've yet to see any evidence this deck has been killing it.
I've tried to setup Cockatrice in the past, and I couldn't really figure it out. Now that I'm on XMage I don't see any reason to try to setup Cockatrice.
Excellent write up Mey, I especially thought the matchups section was helpful. Keep up the good work and do some playtesting with the new cards too.
I have a few questions for you...
I see that you're splashing White on the sideboard for Timely Reinforcement, but I don't see any lands that provide White. How would you configure your mana base for the White splash? I also see that you're running 23 lands, contrary to Lee Shi Tian's GP top 8 list with 22 and the recent list on The Meadery also with 22 lands. How has that been working for you?
Is Anger of the Gods really better than Pyroclasm on the board? The double Red is much harder and more painful to cast, and it comes down a full turn later. With Pod out of the picture, is it time to switch back to Pyroclasm and targeted removals?
I can't help but think that a Green splash for Tarmogoyf and Ancient Grudge would do work. Tarmogoyf puts a clock on Tron, and it also helps against Burn, Zoo, and other aggro decks. I don't know if it's better than a White splash, but it's certainly worth thinking about.
If we run Blood Moon main board, then we lose to Burn. Goyf has been my go to for beating Burn, and Gitaxian Probe is really good against the other decks. On the other hand, Young Pyromancer is also much better now that people aren't running Chalice of the Void and Electrickery in the sideboard.
However, Goyfs being stranded in your hand is a really bad place to be, sometimes you're forced to Blood Moon on curve and mana screw yourself. The downside can be big, and Izzet Charm probably should be part of the 75. The upside of having a reliable clock against Burn and Tron is worth mentioning, decks that put you on a reliable clock of beat me quick enough or lose.
I'm sure more people would enter Modern when they either have to spend $800 on a playset of Goyfs or play Burn. Sure wasn't hard to figure out the meta when the only good blue spells are Snapcaster Mage and Remand./rant
I've realized in my playtesting that Remand is just the nuts right now with all the 3/4 CMC cards around, I would play a full playset.
I also think that Goblin Guide and/or Monastery Swiftspear deserves discussion. Basically any threat that doesn't die to Zealous Persecution/Golgari Charm. The fact that Blood Moon triggers Prowess might mean its inclusion in the main deck.
R1-RG Tron (0-2):
My opponent kept mediocre hands with amazing draws, leading to turn 3 Wurmcoil Engine in both games. During the first time I tried to claw back, killing the Engine and tokens, but wasted too many resources and he was able to stabalize with Oblivion Stone and Karn. Game two the fast Wurmcoil was followed by a Challice on 1 and Eye of Ugin -> Kozilek, which I stalled briefly by Cliqueing away the Kozilek, but he found an extra Tron piece off the top, and searched up Emrakul for the win.
Board in: Vendilion Clique, Huntmaster of the Fells
Board Out: 2x Spell Snare
R2-Budget Blue Moon (2-0):
Played against a young kid in his first modern event.He is playing a budget Blue Moon variant. Goyf and Delver made quick work of him. Boarded out 3 Hooting Mandrils in G2 for Keranos, Destructive Revelry and Clique to reduce demands in Green.
R3-Burn (2-1):
Game 1 he wins the race after I mull to 5, but I get him to 6 with Goyf and Delver.
Board in: Dispel, Flashfreeze, Negate, Huntmaster
Board out: 2 Probe, 2 Vapor Snag (don't remember exactly, this is my guess)
Game 2, we again trade blows to the point where I have a large Goyf and life total is 3-4. He taps out 6 mana to flashback Bump in the Night, which I Remand, and then Bolt his Swiftspear to clear the way for Goyf.
Game 3 opening Serum Visions draws me a land and scrys Delver,Bolt which lets me race his Swiftspear. He gets me to 3, and I counter his final burn spell with Flashfreeze, after which he bricks the next two draws while I finish him with Delver and Scooze.
R4-Junk(1-2):
Game 1 is a grindfest. He gets a Courser on curve with no answer from me, but I do my best to keep him off of anything else. Eventually he lands a Siege Rhino and Liliana to close the game.
Board out: 3 Remand, Probe, Thoughtscour, Forked Bolt
Board In: Vendilion Clique, Keranos, Combust, Threads of Disloyalty, Huntmaster, Flashfreeze
Game 2 he mulls twice. I remand his on-curve Goyf, Denial his on-curve Souls, and Threads his second attempt at Goyf. He gets a Rhino through my defenses, but Batterskull helps keep me alive and deal with Rhino, dealing 10 with 2 Goyfs on a crackback.
Game 3 we start with abut 6 minutes left in the round. I keep a mediocre hand that gets Huntmaster on curve. He responds with a Rhino, and on his next turn I trade Delver and the wolf token for his Rhino, and he Paths my Huntmaster. He gets a second Rhino and a Goyf, along with man lands, and finishes me through a Batterskull on his final turn of extra turns.
R5-Junk(2-1):
Game 1, Maelstrom Pulse, Lili, Path, and Rhino prove too much for me.
Same board plan as above.
Game 2 he mills once, and then I have a difficult time getting threats to stay on the board. In turn 3 he drops a Goyf, then on my turn Paths my Mandrills and Slaughter Pacts my Goyf. I pass turn, and he draws before paying for Pact, losing him the game. Game three he shocks and Thoughtseizes away my Snapcaster. I drop Goyf on turn 2 and 3, and he gets stuck on 3 lands while my Goyfs go to town.
R6-Esper Control(2-1)(Pair down):
Game 1 I start with two drop threats in hand, but Probe into Spell Snare, Remand, and Cryptic. He is able to keep me locked out with Esper Charms until Lingering Souls, White Sun's Zenith and Celestial Colonades finish me off.
Game 2 I lead with a Probe into a Delver, who flips on turn 2 and is joined by a Goyf, which makes quick work of his slow hand.
Game 3 he concedes so that he can beat traffic on the way home.
Cut to top 8 included 2 players a 4-2.
Prizes paid out to top 10, and I placed 11th on tiebreakers (R2 against the young kid was especially bad for OMW%).
Some other words... Vapor Snag felt bad, 1 of is probably correct. Clique has been really good, I think it's just an all-around solid card right now.
Personally I prefer Ooze over Blood Moon because they both come in for more grindy match ups. Ooze is never a dead card, uninterrupted, it takes over games for stalemate boards, and it also helps you to catch up, 1-3 life per turn is huge for this deck. Blood Moon can not only be a dead draw in multiples, but depending on your draws, it can also potentially cut you off from green mana, limit you on blue mana, and it's just an awkward card for a 3 color deck like Disrupting Shoal is. Lastly, Scavenging Ooze is our only means of graveyard hate, albeit slow, but it's better than nothing. Huntmaster feels like a card that, if you're a tempo/midrange cross over, would very much want. I also feel that Batterskull is strong in the shell as well. These three life gain options help you to eschew Burn specific hate cards in the board.
2x Breeding Pool
1x Forest
2x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Mountain
4x Scalding Tarn
1x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
2x Wooded Foothills
Sorcery (10)
1x Forked Bolt
4x Gitaxian Probe
1x Pillar of Flame
4x Serum Visions
1x Batterskull
Instant (16)
1x Electrolyze
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Remand
1x Spell Snare
2x Stubborn Denial
3x Thought Scour
2x Vapor Snag
Creature (15)
4x Delver of Secrets Flip
3x Hooting Mandrills
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Snapcaster Mage
4x Tarmogoyf
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Combust
1x Destructive Revelry
1x Dispel
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Flame Slash
1x Flashfreeze
1x Huntmaster of the Fells Flip
1x Keranos, God of Storms
1x Magma Spray
1x Negate
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Spell Snare
1x Threads of Disloyalty
Mandrill feels too inconsistent to be a 4 of, but I think it's okay as a 3 of, you usually want to see one per game. The same is true for Thoughtscour, which isn't even necessarily all that synergestic with the deck.
I've put Batterskull, Scavenging Ooze, and Vendilion Clique as extra threats. These cards are boarded in a ton, so I feel like they deserve space in the mainboard. I play a deck with very light counters because I would rather resolve my own threats rather than get in the way of others' threats. Vapor Snag might just be the worst card in the deck right now due to how grindy the meta feels.
Yes in the case where you want to land a turn 2 Goyf/Mandrill, you can play it straight into Path to Exile, but how many Modern decks are running Path to Exile, and how many times is it going to be relevant in the first 3 turns of the game? This is especially true because a turns 1-3 Path to Exile ramps you. If you're scared on Paths, I'd rather run Cryptic Command, it doesn't take much after a ramp to get to 4 mana. Cryptic Command helps you to tap down their team of Goyfs and Siege Rhinos for the win, and it's almost always a 2 for 1 when played.
I especially don't like having a hand full of reactive counters. Not only are you guaranteed to lose the game late, but you're also cutting burn spells like Forked Bolt and Pillar of Flames, which is a scary place to be against Bob decks. Pitching a Mana Leak and to Disrupting Shoal for a turn 2 Bob is not where I want to be, I would heavily advise AGAINST taking out Spell Snares.
Frankly speaking I think Disrupting Shoal is just a bad card. Run Sword of Feast and Famine, run Sword of Fire and Ice, run Sword of Light and Shadow, run Cryptic Command, run Vendilion Clique, don't run Disrupting Shoal against Path to Exile decks, take advantage of the free ramp. Threats is much, much more powerful than answers in Modern.
Creature base:
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Hooting Mandrill
4x Delver of Secrets
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Instants (17)
4x Thought Scour
3x Stubborn Denial
3x Remand
1x Deprive
2x Disrupting Shoal
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Vapor Snag
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Serum Visions
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
Lands (18)
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Polluted Delta
3x Verdant Catacombs
2x Breeding Pool
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Watery Grave
1x Island
1x Forest
1x Swamp
Personally I prefer Remand over Mana Leak in this deck given that all the threats are essentially 1 CMC, so it's easy to generate tempo. I don't like 4x Disrupting Shoal, multiples in hand means I'm all in on one threat, but if they create a bigger threat, then I'm done. I think a higher fetch count should be fine, there will be ways to gain life against more aggressive decks, and we can race most decks pretty well, so it's more important to double fetch turns 1 and 2. Abrupt Decay is also a much more flexible card that anything in U/R, maybe more copies should be played since this deck has trouble against a turn 1 mana dork, but otherwise the deck seems sweet.
Why Disrupting Shoal? What is it supposed to hit? This is the only Delver list I've seen that neither runs Spell Pierce nor Spell Snare. Being that the deck is down on card advantage without Treasure Cruise, how does it support losing cards?
This list isn't showing up on MTGGoldfish or MTGTop 8, so you either aren't playing in the Modern Dailies, or you've managed to dodge showing up in any lists multiple times over some period. I'm not saying you're lying per se, but I've yet to see any evidence this deck has been killing it.
I've tried to setup Cockatrice in the past, and I couldn't really figure it out. Now that I'm on XMage I don't see any reason to try to setup Cockatrice.
I have a few questions for you...
I see that you're splashing White on the sideboard for Timely Reinforcement, but I don't see any lands that provide White. How would you configure your mana base for the White splash? I also see that you're running 23 lands, contrary to Lee Shi Tian's GP top 8 list with 22 and the recent list on The Meadery also with 22 lands. How has that been working for you?
Is Anger of the Gods really better than Pyroclasm on the board? The double Red is much harder and more painful to cast, and it comes down a full turn later. With Pod out of the picture, is it time to switch back to Pyroclasm and targeted removals?
I can't help but think that a Green splash for Tarmogoyf and Ancient Grudge would do work. Tarmogoyf puts a clock on Tron, and it also helps against Burn, Zoo, and other aggro decks. I don't know if it's better than a White splash, but it's certainly worth thinking about.