TLDR: (this is about how to Use MTG cards to play a deck building format like ascension. its an Entirely different format of game, and i reccomend watching a video about how to play ascension before continuing)
WHO WHAT AND WHY?!
i played MTG for a couple years, played at the local shop alot( or
lost at the local shop alot i should say), and i grew more
advanced than my gf/friends could handle. i did fine in drafts,
but in constructed decks i could see that i was simply getting out
moneyed, just as i was out-moneying my friends.
i switched to playing deck builders, because everyone has an even
deck in those. you all pull from the same stack of cards so you
dont need to worry if the other player has a 2000$ deck or not.
but Obviously switching from MTG to a typical deck builder like
ascension feels like youre switching from a harley to a fisher
price.
i wanted to find a way to use MTG cards to play a deck builder
style game, and i thought about it alot. then last night after
playing a few games of star realms, and then a hand of commander,
it just clicked.
it was much easier than i thought and actually worked Great!
there were some cards that i knew right off the bat would cause
problems, "polluted bonds" for instance will not work in this
format.
so keeping all that in mind let me explain how this format works.
its only been tested twice, in a 1v1 format.
RULES/TERMS
a few term rules that will need to be clarified:
"graveyard" is the discard pile. when a creature dies, it goes to
the graveyard/discard pile.
when a players draw pile runs out, they shuffle the discard pile
and it returns to the draw pile.
"library" is the draw pile.
so far as the tests have gone, all other terms and abilities are
the same. you still have to pay mana-abilities. tap creatures
when attacking(unless they have vigialance), etc.
instants go to the discard pile.
start with a commander deck.( i started with a 2 color deck, to
add sufficient variety without over complicating things.)
if youre familiar with ascension, its using that format, with MTG
cards.
1. remove all the land cards. remove any enchantments/creatures
that deal damage every time a land enters the battlefield.
(youll see why in a minute)
2. place the remaining deck, face down, and draw Six cards, lay
the Six cards face up next to the remaining deck. this is the
center row.
optional: place 2 stacks of full-art lands, or foil lands,
adjacent to the center row, each one can be puchased for 3 mana of
any color, and when laid from a players hand, is worth 2 of
whatever mana types it produces( like the mystics/militia in
ascension)
both players can purchase cards from the center row. the center
row is not the " battlefield", and cards entering it will not
trigger there " enters the battlefield" abilities.
the cards purchased from the center row are replaced with cards
from the center row-deck. the center row should Always have 6
cards available in it.
THE GAME BEGINS
3.each player, starts off with 5 mana of each color in there
starting deck and 40 health. the starting decks are shuffled, and
each player draws five cards.
(the initial setup. the center row, the large stack that
replenishes the center row, and the 2 players shuffled libraries
of ten lands each. )
from this point on ill use pictures to try and illustrate what is
happening.
4. Player1 reveals his hand.
in this example, player1 drew 3 swamps and 2 plains. he purchases
from the center row, ravens crime, and silverblade paladin. all
cards he purchases, and the lands he just revealed, go into his
discard pile.
the cards he purchases from the center row are replaced with cards
from the center row-deck. the center row should Always have 6
cards available in it.
5. player2 reveals his hand, 2 swamp and 3 plains, he purchases
guul draaz spectre.
all cards purchased/revealed go into discard pile.
6. player1, draws 2 swamp and 3 plains, purchases pharikas curse
and a special land.
7. player2 draws 2 swamp and 3 plains, purchases forfend and
urgent exorcism from center row. discards. * at this point, his draw stack( library) will be empty, he shuffles his discard stack (graveyard) , and it becomes the draw stack, he draws his next hand, i will not note each time this happens, but it happens whenever a players draw stack is empty*at the end of there turn.( if they have no cards in there library, and lay a "draw card" ability, than they simply do nothing.( or take damage, thats up to you)
8.player1 draws 2 lands, pharikas curse, ravens crime, and
soulblade paladin. he purchases
silence.
the instants resolve, and the creature stays on the battlefield.
the instants go into the discard pile, along with the cards he
jsut bought and the land revealed.
9, player2, since he had to discard a card due to the ravens crime
played on the last hand by player1, only has 4 lands. he purchases
ashling the extinguisher.
10.player 1 draws 3 plains and 2 swamp, and attacks with his
paladin. he purchases from the center row, zealous persecution and
murder.
11. player2 draws his guul draz zpectre, as well as forfend and
urgent exorcism.
the instants resolove to no effect, the creature stays on the
battlefield.
12.player 1 draws 2 swamps and 3 planes, and purchases
indestructibility
And so the game goes on. so far its seemed fairly balanced, even
in a run away game the other player always has ***** to do.
for the most part its pretty coherent, and remains
true to the deck building format, and the rules of MTG.
i put all afternoon into writing this and taking the pics and transcribing the hands so please dont delete this thread.
im taking the tried and true format of ascension, and combining it with MTG cards. its a euro card game destroyer. why pay 30 bucks to buy ascension when you can jsut take the land cards out of your commander decks? each commander deck is like a whole expansion for this format.
im really interested in feedback, whether or not this is an interesting format to people, what cards they think would be great for it, mechanic ideas, whatever!
*rule clarification: cards like nightmare: it has toughness equal to your swamps. so lets say you draw 4 swamps and a nightmare. youre nightmare would have a health of 4, but at the end of the turn, you discard all your cards. its health would drop to 0, and it would die. there fore nightmare is not a viable card in this format. pretty much any card that relies on land, be it land you control, or lands entering and exiting, will not work.
with the exception of a few instants/sorceries that deal damage based on land. those would work. there damage is based off the land revealed in the same turn.
example: you draw 4 mountains and splitting earth, splitting earth would deal 4 damage, and then go into the graveyard along with the land revealed.
1
Yes, you can do that. And yes, creatures you control with Islandwalk would then be unblockable when attacking that player. Landwalk looks for a land of that type, not the name. That is why your creatures would be unblockable if your opponent controlled a Volcanic Island
1
Nope. That is the same thing. He can sacrifice to get Zuran Orb's effect or he can sacrifice it to get its own effect. Not both. He cannot "double dip" on sacrificing a permanent.
1
Your friend is wrong and you are correct. Zuran Orb does not say "When a land is sacrificed, gain 2 life". Goblin Bombardment does not say "When a creature is sacrificed, deal 1 damage". He would need to actually activate the ability by paying the cost (sacrificing land or creature) for that specific ability.
A good analogy used is that you can think of it like a vending machine. In the case of a vending machine, say you have 1 dollar and it pays for anything in the machine. You can use that dollar to buy one thing in the machine, but not everything that costs a dollar. You would need to pay another dollar to buy something else.
This is the same thing in your examples. If he wants to get a activation out of Zuran Orb, he would need to sacrifice another land (that wasn't already "spent" on Scapeshift).
1
Those comparisons are fair in that ubiquity does not necessarily equate to a card being on the chopping block. I still disagree that anything in Bloom Titan needs to be banned, especially Summer Bloom. There is plenty of opportunity for interaction against the deck, such as Spell Snare, Spell Pierce, Path to Exile, as well as other early game plays. Wizards may ultimately feel that these cards aren't enough to keep the deck in check, but I don't think we will really know until (or if) Bloom Titan has a larger presence in major tournaments.
However, having said all that, I can see the argument for Summer Bloom pushing the speed of the deck and I can understand the frustration it causes when it leads to turn 2 or 3 Titans.
1
1
Here is another way that same play would have happened (with X potentially being 1 less on the Hydra):
Turn 1 -> Forest -> Birds of Paradise
Turn 2 -> Forest -> Sword of FaF
Turn 3 -> Forest -> Hydra with 2 counters
Turn 4 -> Forest -> Equip sword; attack
This scenario has the same issue where you could not destroy their creature on your turn 4 since you went last. They could have also done:
Turn 1 -> Forest -> Birds of Paradise
Turn 2 -> Forest -> Worn Powerstone
Turn 3 -> Forest -> Hydra with 3 counters
Turn 4 -> Forest -> Cast Sword of FaF and equip; attack
Or:
Turn 1 -> Forest
Turn 2 -> Forest -> Sakura Tribe-Elder (sac for a forest)
Turn 3 -> Forest -> Hydra with 2 counters
Turn 4 -> Forest -> Cast and equip sword; attack
Sol Ring holds no monopoly on facilitating early game plays. Green can do a lot of this with land ramp, and there are plenty of other artifact ramp cards that can help make big plays early.
2
This is certainly a bad spot to be in, especially with this format. However, the first thing to realize is that you, or anyone else in your position, can't rely on the RC to make sweeping changes to make the format more fun for you. It kind of sucks, but there is virtually nothing the RC can do for someone in your position anyway. This is the nature of a format built with the idea of having fun with almost every card ever printed. If there is someone who tries to break it and win the fastest when the ban list is 30 cards they will do the same if the banlist is 300 cards.
This means that the onus is on you to make things better and I understand that is not easy or even feasible to achieve. Unfortunately, there really isn't going to be a good, general answer for someone in your position.
A discussion with your current playgroup seems prudent. Is there anyone else that feels the same way you do and they are continuing with this group because they have to? Do they want a meta that is decided by longer games rather than just trying to win as fast as possible? If you can find at least a couple other people with the same mentality as yours, work to just play games with them. Perhaps actually having games like this being played will get some other players to play this type of game as well and get some of the spikiest players to tone it down or risk not having anyone to play with.
It is wishful thinking that everyone will play this type of game, but if you can get 2-3 other people who want to play the same type of game you want to play, you at least have a new playgroup, even if it is made up of members of your current playgroup.
If this is not an option, you may have to keep powering up your deck just to keep up with other members of the group. Try a different playstyle that has more early answers to stop your opponents. This isn't a great suggestion since it forces you to play a type of game you don't really want to play.
So, basically, the options are to voice your concerns to your current playgroup in hopes of making changes, or suck it up and play the game everyone else is playing.
This highlights a problem for any casual or social format, especially one for multiplayer. The general goal for these types of formats is to have fun with friends. If people want more competition, FNM and tournaments exist. But since EDH is large enough to attract a wide variety of people, and games are often played with people who have different mindsets for what they want out of the game, the individuals playing these games need to work internally to find a common goal so everyone can have fun.
The RC cannot be expected to govern the playstyles of each group by banning cards.
1
Disdainful Stroke
Please use card tags.
Yes, Disdainful Stroke can counter Awakened spells, but only if their CMC (not the Awaken cost) is greater than or equal to 4. So it can't counter Ruinous Path, but it can counter Part the Waterveil. This answer is the same no matter if the Awaken cost is paid or not.
If you counter the spell, all parts of that spell are countered. This includes additional effects like Awaken.
1
Yes that works. Declaring the Damage Assignment Order is the 2nd and 3rd thing done (after declaring blocks) in the Declare Blockers step:
Players then get priority as the fifth thing to happen (after triggered abilities go on the stack):
4
This does work. Mostly because the "Legend Rule" itself takes effect as part of a State-Based Action. See the first (and only) ruling for Elesh Norn on Gatherer: